CAN'T PARTICIpaTE In Both MATHches!!??

[12R34Y]

a moderator on another thread stated that as of next year you will not be able to participate in both ACGME and AOA matching!? Is this true?
thanks

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[Newdoc2002]

Yes, it's true. The matches will be closer together starting next year with AOA being first as usual. If you register and rank programs in both matches, you will be automatically pulled out of the latter (ACGME) match if you match AOA first.

You are bound by contract when you match a program and matching in both programs is not only unethical, it's illegal (two contracts).

It is only fair. There had been a history of DO students matching both DO and MD and then bailing on the MD program. Not a good way to make an impression of the DO student.

 

[mig2k]

IF you match an AOA you will be pulled from the ACGME right?

So let me get this straight, you can apply to both, but dropped from the AGCME if you match SOMETHING in the AOA match? otherwise the AMA matching will go through?



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Ryan
Western U/COMP Class of 2004
thedigitaldoctor.com

 

[Newdoc2002]

miglo,

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Detroit Rock City]

Just curious,
do you think that MD students should be allowed to apply for AOA residencies? You obviously feel that the opposite is fair. I fail to see the rationale for allowing DO's into MD training when the opposite is not allowed. I'd be interested in learining OMM, but never was given the chance.

 

[euhsa]

DRC:

You pretty much answered your own question! MDs do not have the training in OMM- a requirement for osteopathic residencies. Necessary? Probably not. Mandatory requirement- Absolutely! On the other hand, DOs have undergone all the training that MDs go through. Once again, keep in mind that osteopathic students spend a lot of time in the OMM lab. (I hope that this does not open another heated argument.)

 

[OldManDave]

Miglo & others,

No, you can't apply to both matches. In fact, it has never been permissible...the rules just haven't been enforced. The deal is...when you sign a match contract, with either match, it consitutes a legally binding contract to honor the results of the match. To enroll in two matches means that you will inevitably violate one of the two contracts. You can be sued and forced to honor the contract. However, to date, it has been highly under-enforced.

With the newly enhanced cooperativity between the AOA and the ACGME [the program to expeditiously jointly accredit interships & residencies], part of the agreement is to begin preventing double-matchers. It is damaging to the residencies to have people bail at the last minute.

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'Old Man Dave'
KCOM, Class of '03

Nothing Risked, Nothing Gained!!

 

[bhl]

Actually next year you CAN apply to both matches, however if you match an AOA program (this match occurs first), you will automatically be locked out from participating in the ACGME match. If you don't match AOA however, there's the possibility of matching ACGME remaining.

 

[Detroit Rock City]

Euhsa,
the training is very similar but it has small differences. MD students do 12 weeks of medicine and 6 weeks of FP, at least that is the way I had it. I rotated with DO students and they only had 8 weeks of Medicine. That's about the only differerce except for the rotating internship year. I'd love to take OMM but I don't think it's fair that some residencies are closed to me because of that one class while all the residencies are open to the DO students. Nothing against the DO's, just my opinion.
Humble MD resident

 

[OldManDave]

I agree with you whole-heartedly! I think the AOA should open its residencies to MD-grads as well.

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'Old Man Dave'
KCOM, Class of '03

Nothing Risked, Nothing Gained!!

 

[rhillstr]

DRC,
I agree with your concern about the residencies but I must assert that OMM and the philosophy evolved from it is what makes osteopathic med different. While any med student could learn the philosophy, it is best exercised in reference to OMM. While DO students can do ACGME residencies the AOA doesn't like it because they lose that part of their training, the only real difference between MD and DO. Not that one is better than the other, just different

 

[mig2k]

If I had the power to do it, I would open up both matches for both groups, MD & DO. Combine both the programs, AOA and ACGME, into a single entity. It'll make everyone's life a lot easier IMHO.

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Ryan
Western U/COMP Class of 2004
thedigitaldoctor.com

 

[SUNYboy]

We all know that the knowledge we need to practice medicine is mostly learned during residency. All med school is for is to teach the basics of the major specialties, set the foundation for learning during residency, and for the students to decide what specialty they will train in. My concern is that a bunch of you DO students preach the "DO philosophy" and blah, blah, blah the patient as a whole blah, blah, blah, and then jump ship and do an ACGME residency, which is where most of the learning is done anyway. This to me sounds like a loophole....Can't get into MD school, go to DO school, then do an MD residency...very nice and slick! Those DO students that do an ACGME residency are no different from those carribean students. If you all really buy the DO whatever, then do a DO residency. That is when the real learning is done.

[This message has been edited by SUNYboy (edited 04-29-2000).]

 

[Starflyr]

From what I understand, there ARENT ENOUGH AOA residencies for all the DO students. Also, if a DO wants to specialize....well, there arent many of those available either, unless they go w/an ACGME. So....

I do agree that it should work both ways though...tho if a MD wants to do a DO residency, they should be required to take OMM at some point.

 

[mig2k]

SUNY: Not everyone preaches the DO "blah blah blah" as you put it

. To me medschool is just a means to an end. Having OMM as an extra tool is nice though. Other than that, medicine is medicine.

------------------
Ryan
Western U/COMP Class of 2004
thedigitaldoctor.com

 

[UHS2002]

I also think that AOA residencies should be open to MD graduates. However, IF the program also includes OMM, it should be open only to those MD graduates who have taken an OMM course with the equivalent amount of credit hours required from DO students in order to graduate. After all, no allopathic residency program would accept DO applicants from a program that didn't cover at least the same content as the allopathic programs. I cannot immagine a single MD residency program accepting any graduates from a school which didn't offer pharm, for instance. As a matter of fact, DOs were recognized as full physicians only when it became clear (clear about a hundred times over, I may add) that their training included everything their MD counterparts were taught.

It has nothing to do with the philosophy of OMM. It has more to do with the training. It takes a couple of hundred hours to develop the manipulation and palpation skills expected from DO students by the time they graduate. So, some osteopathic programs expect their residents to come in with these skills and put them to use from the start. They don't want to invest precious hours from the attendings and senior residents' time to teach these skills from scratch.

 

[SUNYboy]

So do you DO students feel comfortable enough to practice OMM out in the real world with your 200 hours put in? Or is that just the basics which would need to be solidified and refined during residency in order to practice on your own patients? If so, then when you do an ACGME residency which doesn't teach you OMM, you are just like the regular MD residents (you hope). If that is the case, then my point remains that DO is a means to an end, and a loophole to be a doctor by "embracing the philosophy," but when the time comes to do the "real learning," the one that you actually use in your practice, you jump ship and go ACGME training. Sounds hypocritical to me!!!

 

[drusso]

The OMM you learn in medical school is a enough to get you through the garden variety sprains and strains often seen in family practice type settings. The kind of situation often encountered where the x-ray is negative, no frank neuro or orthopedic changes, and a pretty straight forward history: "Gee, I was out in the garden, bent over, and then couldn't get up." OMM residencies are really more tailored toward a specialty pain management type of practice.

So, yes, most DO students would feel comfortable practicing OMM in the real world after med school. And, just because one does an MD residency, doesn't mean that you can't continue to take OMM classes (both DOs and MDs) on a post-graduate basis. Many, many, many such courses are offered. Many DO's in MD programs do OMM. In fact, one here has started teaching the MDs!

 

[ADRIANSHOE]

SUNYBOY, gee, there is common ground between us, who woulda thunk it...I agree that it is totally hypocritical to state you embrace the do philosophy when in fact you are just using DO school as a means to an end....Those with long memories will remember me saying those very words a long time ago....for many of us, DO school was where we got in to MEDICAL SCHOOL for whatever reason (my reason was i simply wasn't long winded enough for the md schools), the philosophy was never a big thing to us, the MEDICINE was, it is wholly a means to an end for a whole lot of us and its only fair and honest that those of us who feel that way state it honestly without hiding the fact...now you might want to wait until after the interview LOL!
but, we also do have to give some folks the benefit of the doubt, if they embrace the idea of an osteopathic philosophy and then choose to do an MD residency due to convenience, location, better training (imagined or otherwise) or for a specialty, then we have to understand that they are not THROWING AWAY the osteopathic philosophy per se, simply placing it lower on their list of priorities.

What is the PHILOSOPHY of SUNY or of HARVARD or of YALE? you dont GO to schools for their philosophies, but for their opportunities...i dont anyway.