Career change at 32. Considering medical anth & regenerative medicine.

[michaelcc1979]

Hello, my name is Michael, I'm 32 years old, and due to recent events, I'm considering a pretty severe career change.

I never went to college, instead I went right into software development at 18. I've been programming professionally ever since, and I've been quite successful at it.

However, I've decided that I'm not very happy with computer programming, and I really would like to get out of software, and one of the ideas I've had is to pursue a combination of Medical Anthropology and Regenerative Medicine.

I'm a big fan of Paul Farmer (Partners In Health, I highly recommend "Mountains Beyond Mountains" for more information), and have a high regard for applied anthropology.

I also think that we are at the cusp of a medical renaissance with regenerative medicine and stem cell research which could transform the world.

Thing is, everyone thinks I'm crazy, and I'm having a hard time disagreeing. I'm looking at finishing pre-med+medical school+residency at maybe 47 years old.

I'm not particularly worried about the science requirements. I'm very good at math and science. I took the SAT practice exam on sat.collegeboard.org with zero preparation and got a 2100/1420. I'm sure with proper preparation I could do even better.

My grades in high school were abysmal, though. I was too busy teaching myself 8086 assembly language to bother with homework. It paid off in the end, but now that I don't want to work in this field anymore, it feels as though I'm at square one.

I also had some severe problems concentrating when I was a teenager that has been well worked out with a combination of (light) medication and discipline.

Theoretically, I could work full time and go to school full time, since my current job is relatively low stress, very flexible, and I'm very good at it. This might mean longer to graduate, or no summers off, but it would also mean no debt from undergrad. Actual medical school would be a different story.

So my tentative plan is this:

1. Take the SAT in April (2012).

2. Community College for the basics this summer (2012), fall (2012), and spring semesters (2013). Focus on gen eds, hold off on science or anthropology until university.

3. Apply to university Jan 2012. Start Fall 2013. Major in Anthropology, with pre med requirements.

4. Graduate by 2017. Apply to Medical school.

5. Start Medical School 2018. Graduate 2022.

6. Start Residency 2022. Finish 2025.

7. Start subspecialty training. Finish 2027. I will be 47 years old.

CONS:

1. Starting a family is not really an option.

2. Tons of debt.

3. Being 47 years old before I can practice.

PROS:

1. I get to be happy doing what I do, and at the forefront of an amazing future.

2. If I decide against practicing, programmers with a medical background make tall cash. I could pay off my debt doing that, even though it would be admitting defeat on a personal level.

3. If regenerative medicine really is the panacea I'm hoping it to be, 47 will be the new 25.

On a scale of 1-10, how ridiculous is this?

Thank you for your feedback,

Michael

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[Scottish Chap]

Hello, my name is Michael, I'm 32 years old, and due to recent events, I'm considering a pretty severe career change.

I never went to college, instead I went right into software development at 18. I've been programming professionally ever since, and I've been quite successful at it.

However, I've decided that I'm not very happy with computer programming, and I really would like to get out of software, and one of the ideas I've had is to pursue a combination of Medical Anthropology and Regenerative Medicine.

I'm a big fan of Paul Farmer (Partners In Health, I highly recommend "Mountains Beyond Mountains" for more information), and have a high regard for applied anthropology.

I also think that we are at the cusp of a medical renaissance with regenerative medicine and stem cell research which could transform the world.

Thing is, everyone thinks I'm crazy, and I'm having a hard time disagreeing. I'm looking at finishing pre-med+medical school+residency at maybe 47 years old.

I'm not particularly worried about the science requirements. I'm very good at math and science. I took the SAT practice exam on sat.collegeboard.org with zero preparation and got a 2100/1420. I'm sure with proper preparation I could do even better.

My grades in high school were abysmal, though. I was too busy teaching myself 8086 assembly language to bother with homework. It paid off in the end, but now that I don't want to work in this field anymore, it feels as though I'm at square one.

I also had some severe problems concentrating when I was a teenager that has been well worked out with a combination of (light) medication and discipline.

Theoretically, I could work full time and go to school full time, since my current job is relatively low stress, very flexible, and I'm very good at it. This might mean longer to graduate, or no summers off, but it would also mean no debt from undergrad. Actual medical school would be a different story.

So my tentative plan is this:

1. Take the SAT in April (2012).

2. Community College for the basics this summer (2012), fall (2012), and spring semesters (2013). Focus on gen eds, hold off on science or anthropology until university.

3. Apply to university Jan 2012. Start Fall 2013. Major in Anthropology, with pre med requirements.

4. Graduate by 2017. Apply to Medical school.

5. Start Medical School 2018. Graduate 2022.

6. Start Residency 2022. Finish 2025.

7. Start subspecialty training. Finish 2027. I will be 47 years old.

CONS:

1. Starting a family is not really an option.

2. Tons of debt.

3. Being 47 years old before I can practice.

PROS:

1. I get to be happy doing what I do, and at the forefront of an amazing future.

2. If I decide against practicing, programmers with a medical background make tall cash. I could pay off my debt doing that, even though it would be admitting defeat on a personal level.

3. If regenerative medicine really is the panacea I'm hoping it to be, 47 will be the new 25.

On a scale of 1-10, how ridiculous is this?

Thank you for your feedback,

Michael

There is no streamlined medical training program in regenerative medicine (though cosmetic surgery touches on it), and I would consider just doing a PhD instead and becoming a medical researcher (that's the intended career goal I get from your post). You might want a medical degree and that's fine, but your implied career goal of stem cell therapy and regenerative medicine reeks of focused bench research and not clinical medicine.

Such a specific, and narrow career goal will make it hard to win support as a non-traditional applicant as you are already really 'going against the grain'. Medical schools generally like cookie-cutter, low risk applicants.

You have a well-thought out plan, but my advice would be to broaden your degree focus and goals. The major focus must be on grades - the higher the better.

Lastly, there is always room for children. Whoever said a medical/research career will make starting a family impossible?

Good luck.

 

[michaelcc1979]

your implied career goal of stem cell therapy and regenerative medicine reeks of focused bench research and not clinical medicine.

True, I can see that. My interest is more in application than pure research. Maybe it would be best to go for being a GP or a specific specialty, and try and incorporate new technologies into my practice as best I can.

You have a well-thought out plan, but my advice would be to broaden your degree focus and goals. The major focus must be on grades - the higher the better.

Good advice. For now, the focus should be an anthropology undergrad plus pre med, and getting the best grades I can doing that.

Good luck.

I'll take that to mean that the plan is not impossible. Thank you!

 

[Scottish Chap]

True, I can see that. My interest is more in application than pure research. Maybe it would be best to go for being a GP or a specific specialty, and try and incorporate new technologies into my practice as best I can.

I'm being frank because you asked, but this is not what a GP does. People go to a good GP for excellent, up-to-date, evidence-based, and thorough clinical care. If I find out my GP is an 'outlier' and is more interested in esoteric research topics, I'm leaving that practice. Training as a GP and staying current requires a lot of effort. If you tell medical schools what you posted here, they're going to have an issue with it.

The major question is two-fold: 1) Do you want to be a physician? 2) Do you need a medical degree to reach your intended career goal? 95% of the time, the response is only yes to one of those questions. If it's yes to both of them, you must plan a carer goal that does not go against the grain. Medical schools don't like people that try to go against the grain.

Given the right training, aptitude, and dedication (the latter matters most), there is not a lot you can't be trained to do.

 

[futuredocandmom]

Very good feedback given here. I would recommend getting some volunteer experience, and getting started on your coursework - you have time and leeway to adjust your direction and degree path, if necessary. As you make your way through your academics and gain experience in clinical settings, I believe that your preferred and wisest professional course will become clearer. Best of luck to you!

 

[michaelcc1979]

If you tell medical schools what you posted here, they're going to have an issue with it.

Understood. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but my thoughts are 15 years in the future, so the hope is that regenerative medicine will not be esoteric.

Medical schools don't like people that try to go against the grain.

So, basically, focus on medical school as a rigid track, and let the technology catch up to my aspirations on it's own?

 

[hopeful22213]

Michael (and for what it's worth, it may not be the best idea to identify yourself by name on forums like these)- nobody but you can really say if your plan is ridiculous as thats mainly just a function of your desire. If that is what you really want, then no- of course it's not ridiculous. Some might argue it is not a sound financial decision long term, but this is not a place where people will tell you it is 'ridiculous' to pursue medicine a little later in life.

I have some questions though- if you are planning to go to school full-time then your timeline can be compressed significantly. 3 semesters of community college plus 4 years of undergrad is awfully conservative. You want to ensure good grades- especially for a first time college student- but if you are planning on taking classes year round then five and a half years is longer than necessary. Let's stay conservative and cut that down to four years or maybe even three and a half. Now look at that- 47 just became 45.

What's more, most community colleges don't require an SAT- though you can use one to substitute for a general placement test they may offer over the computer. Assuming this is true for yours, you should take the placement test and can potentially begin- even if it's just one class at night or something- at your local cc with a course this spring.

You don't want to get sloppy and set yourself back, but given your age and what I presume to be the maturity and focus that accompanies it, I'd encourage you to accelerate your plans just a bit.

Not only is your goal very much achievable, it is admirable. Good luck if this is what you decide to do!

 

[rawrz]

If you know in advance what college you'd like to do your undergrad education in, it's well worth your time to look into CLEP tests. It can potentially reduce the time spent in school AND amount of tuition spent. Check and see what your school will and will not accept as CLEP credit and work toward it. Just be aware that CLEP credit can't be applied to pre-med stuff. Hope that helps, and best of luck!

 

[startoverat40]

a few med schools don't require a bachelors degree, as long as you have the prereqs. don't worry about the age, I'll be 49 when I'm done.

 

[Law2Doc]

... as long as you have the prereqs. don't worry about the age, I'll be 49 when I'm done.

agree. Dude, you are focusing on the age at the end of fellowship. Most threads focus on here ask " am I too old to start med school", which I think is the better question. Truth of the matter is that by your calculations, you will be starting med school in your 30s. That's pretty common for nontrads. You won't be close to setting any records. Once you finish med school you are a doctor, Doing what you trained to do. Artificially focusing on the end of training is silly, because you cant choose a residency as a pre-pre-med. You may fall in love with any number of fields with longer residencies -- most are 4 years or more. Many dont require fellowship. Moving up the ladder, (whether it be through residency and fellowship, or working from a cubicle to an office) is the truth of any career post-schooling. But it's not much of a life if you arbitrarily deem some target many years out as accomplishing your goal. Better to have a series of goals. Do undergrad. At the end of that you may still want to be a doctor, or maybe you decide you want to be an anthropologist instead. If you choose medicine, go to med school. During that time get exposure to a lot of fields and pick the one that suits you best. Then go for a residency. And so on. Focusing on some nebulous field 15 years out ignores the possibilities you will see along the road, and is foolish. Hope that helps.

 

[FutureDrB]

agree. Dude, you are focusing on the age at the end of fellowship. Most threads focus on here ask " am I too old to start med school", which I think is the better question. Truth of the matter is that by your calculations, you will be starting med school in your 30s. That's pretty common for nontrads. You won't be close to setting any records. Once you finish med school you are a doctor, Doing what you trained to do. Artificially focusing on the end of training is silly, because you cant choose a residency as a pre-pre-med. You may fall in love with any number of fields with longer residencies -- most are 4 years or more. Many dont require fellowship. Moving up the ladder, (whether it be through residency and fellowship, or working from a cubicle to an office) is the truth of any career post-schooling. But it's not much of a life if you arbitrarily deem some target many years out as accomplishing your goal. Better to have a series of goals. Do undergrad. At the end of that you may still want to be a doctor, or maybe you decide you want to be an anthropologist instead. If you choose medicine, go to med school. During that time get exposure to a lot of fields and pick the one that suits you best. Then go for a residency. And so on. Focusing on some nebulous field 15 years out ignores the possibilities you will see along the road, and is foolish. Hope that helps.

Thank you for pointing this out. I see threads all the time where someone will say "I won't be a doctor for 10 more years, or whatever." I'm like, you do realize that you are a practicing physician when you finish med school right? Resident = Physician. And in all reality, you'll start "seeing" patients in your 3rd year of medical school during rotations, so it's not as far away as you think.

 

[MT Headed]

So you've been gainfully employed as a computer programmer for years, you are naturally a good test taker, and you're single. While I don't feel qualified to discuss IF you should pursue your path through medicine (or through some other channel), I'm highly confident that should you choose that path you will utterly slay the undergrad, MCAT, and all the other pre-med experiences. You will be up against clueless 19 year olds while you have the skills, maturity, and solid planning of an adult.

Just be sure you do this (it won't be too hard):

CLD
LES DI,[transcript]
MOV CX,[transcript_len]
MOV AL,40
REP STOSB

 

[DrMidlife]

However, I've decided that I'm not very happy with computer programming, and I really would like to get out of software, and one of the ideas I've had is to pursue a combination of Medical Anthropology and Regenerative Medicine...I'm a big fan of Paul Farmer (Partners In Health, I highly recommend "Mountains Beyond Mountains" for more information), and have a high regard for applied anthropology...I also think that we are at the cusp of a medical renaissance with regenerative medicine and stem cell research which could transform the world.

I suggest that being interested and/or inspired need to be balanced with investigating the actual daily work of a Paul Farmer or a stem cell scientist.

I'm profoundly inspired by Paul Farmer as well. Paul Farmer has a knack for languages, started in Haiti at 18, only occasionally sees his wife and kids who live in Rwanda because of PIH commitments, and he flies over a million miles a year. The first decades of his service he slept on a lot of dirt floors. If you didn't grow up living on a schoolbus as part of a large family, life without fresh coffee and the internet may be a stretch, as is any long-term service in MSF or in refugee camps or what have you. I suggest reading Farmer's scholarly books (The Uses of Haiti, Pathologies of Power, etc) to get a sense of what the study of medical anthropology is, and whether anything ever changes because of the practice of medical anthropology. You may find that an appreciation for, and support of, the work of Paul Farmer, is consistent with the practice of medicine, more so than studying what he studied and/or making a career of it.

Similarly with regenerative medicine, this is a lab science that may or may not have substantial clinical applications this century. So during your undergrad years, get yourself into a lab and see if that's a place you want to spend a ton of time. Or, as above, think about whether you want to appreciate and support the research without doing the research yourself.

Thing is, everyone thinks I'm crazy, and I'm having a hard time disagreeing. I'm looking at finishing pre-med+medical school+residency at maybe 47 years old.

As others have said, you're going to be 47 anyway. I'll be just shy of 50 when I get my MD, and I'm not the oldest my school is graduating lately. You won't be the oldest, if and when you go to med school.

Theoretically, I could work full time and go to school full time, since my current job is relatively low stress, very flexible, and I'm very good at it. This might mean longer to graduate, or no summers off, but it would also mean no debt from undergrad. Actual medical school would be a different story.

As long as working doesn't prolong your undergrad career, or keep you from getting A's, sure.

Problem is, you have no idea what's going to happen when you get back in the classroom. Your intentions are fantastic, but there's a great deal of pain between you and long years of success in standardized academics where you don't get to vote on anything. Right now you're the equivalent of a couch potato who decides to run marathons for the rest of your life. Which is fine. But: can you make yourself run every day (equivalent to studying when it's not fun)? Can you keep this up for years? Can you stay in the middle of the pack, or better, with competitive runners (equivalent to competing for a seat in med school)? Can you stick with marathons when you find yourself wanting to take up something else entirely (not a problem for kiddoes, but relevant for midlifers)?

Working up the skillset to succeed in academics is your bread and butter for at least the next 6 years. Don't assume you have been gifted that skill set - assume you'll have to suffer to acquire it.

2. Community College for the basics this summer (2012), fall (2012), and spring semesters (2013). Focus on gen eds, hold off on science or anthropology until university.

I suggest that CC study is a fantastic idea [edit: for a small number, like 3, of preliminary, proof-of-concept, low-level courses, and no more], but there's no benefit in staying at a CC past the point where you've demonstrated that you can smoke the courses. Take math, statistics, English, and get A's, and then get thee to a university so that you have access to inspiring publishing faculty and opportunities.

It's reasonable to plan things out so that you do an Associates degree followed by a premed-ish university degree, but this just never gets done in 4 years. If that's fine with you, then great.

2. If I decide against practicing, programmers with a medical background make tall cash. I could pay off my debt doing that, even though it would be admitting defeat on a personal level.

Not a money-making thing, but look into crowd sourced programming efforts like OpenMRS (a PIH joint) through which you can start to make a contribution to your passions, now. I just started doing this and I wish I would have been involved from the start.

On a scale of 1-10, how ridiculous is this?

I vote 5. If you can thrive in undergrad, without getting bored or losing focus, getting a really high GPA (3.7+), not ruining your financial, physical or mental health, then subsequently going to med school is low-ridiculousness. If you hate undergrad, if you have physical or financial problems, if you find that your priorities aren't consistent with your inspirations/interests, then med school is high-ridiculousness.

Best of luck to you.

 

[lsu hopeful]

I suggest that being interested and/or inspired need to be balanced with investigating the actual daily work of a Paul Farmer or a stem cell scientist.

The above post is pretty much the best advice you're going to get and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who will disagree with it.

I'd like to expand on the above quote, though. When you start your CC courses (and saying that gives me a chill in my spine because I would never suggest doing CC for an aspiring doc), make it your #3 priority (#1 being grades, #2 being job) to get into a shadowing program at a hospital or in a specific doctor's office. Spending 100-200 hours shadowing will give you the reassurance or confirmation that you would or wouldn't like being a physician. Make sure you shadow various specialties before you get introspective, though. It would behoove you to encase your decision in stone and put your initials on it before handing it over to a med school admissions committee for inspection (and before spending money/time going back to school, for that matter).

2. If I decide against practicing, programmers with a medical background make tall cash. I could pay off my debt doing that, even though it would be admitting defeat on a personal level.

This is the only other thing that really stuck out to me to comment on. I've read so many stories of people jumping on the couch, putting their superman cape on (a towel), and getting ready to fly, only to realize they can't or don't want to fly and they still refuse to get off the couch, as if the floor is lava. If you start down this path and, at any point, realize it's not for you, stop and reassess your feelings. Take a break, shadow some more, volunteer some more, do whatever it takes to encase your decision in stone again, whatever that decision may be. Under no circumstances should you feel defeated if you decide it's not for you. Do you consider yourself defeated for devoting a good chunk of your life to being an excellent programmer, then refocusing your life towards medicine? I doubt it. You've not been defeated... you've succeeded in learning more about yourself. That may sound a little cheesy, but it's more than a good chunk of our population can say.