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Career change...chiropractic to osteopathic med

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by SpineDoc, Mar 13, 1999.

  1. SpineDoc

    SpineDoc Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Mar 12, 1999
    Los Gatos, CA
    I'm currently in my final year of chiropractic college and I'm considering applying to osteopathic med school after I graduate. I want more from being a doctor and I'm not completely satisfied with my profession. Anyways, I have a B.S. in Physiology with only a 2.9 g.p.a. and a 3.4 from chiropractic college. I have not taken the MCAT, but plan to take it this August. I also did volunteer work in an osteopathic hospital for 1 year when I went to school in Arizona. In addition, I'm a research assistant at Palmer College of Chiropractic-West and I'm researching different manipulative techniques and their outcomes on patients.

    Can anyone give me any advice on admission into D.O. school and what are chances? What kind of scores will I need on the MCAT? It's been a while since I have seen any of the pre-med sciences and frankly I'm not that great at physics and inorganic chem.

    I hope that my experince in the basic medical and clinical sciences will be a positive. Many of our classes are similar to that of medical students. Any advice would be much appreciated.

    Darrell


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  3. justwannabadoc

    justwannabadoc Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    It seems like quite a few DC's are interested in becoming DO's. I'm curious why? Anyway, I think your GPA is certainly good enough to warrant consideration. In terms of MCAT, I would say 8's in all areas would be a safe minimum. Obviously shoot for higher but to be safe, I wouldn't get below 24. Obviously, you can get lower and still get in if other parts of your application are compelling enough. Your extracurriculars sound great. I would say keep up what you're doing. Spend some more time following DO's around. Make sure you know about osteopathy and why you want to be a DO. Physics and chem weren't my greatest areas either. The best way to succeed on that section is learn the basic material and practice till you drop. Good luck.
     
  4. do02

    do02 New Member

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    SpineDoc:
    Nice username. It seems like you have a great background which would warrant consideration from any admissions committee. Again, to reiterate the previous advice. Shadow a DO (as you'll prob. need a letter)to gain insight. The basic science background is a definite +.
     
  5. dcdo

    dcdo Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    spinedoc,

    If it's any help to you, I had a 2.8 at UCLA(too much fun), a 3.65 at LACC, and a 31 MCAT(not too much fun)and I was accepted to TUCOM class of 02. I'm not sure how much you need, but on the positive side, being a DC was not a problem for the interview.

    DCDO
     
  6. 8404

    8404 Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    I agree with the other posts. Get a recommendation from an osteopathic physician regardless if the school you apply to wants it or not. This shows you did your homework and a good evaluation from a practicing physician shows you have good people skills, (although letters from your current faculity where you are treating patients will be great also).
     
  7. SpineDoc

    SpineDoc Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Mar 12, 1999
    Los Gatos, CA
    Thanks for all the advice. However, did I not mention I volunteered in the ER in a Osteopathic hospital for a year. In addition I made some great contacts with two Osteopathic physicians. One of them works at AZCOM.

    Anymore advice would be appreciated.

    SpineDoc

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  8. SpineDoc

    SpineDoc Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Mar 12, 1999
    Los Gatos, CA
    DCDO,

    I was recently visiting TUCOM and Dr.Clark mentioned that there was a D.C in the then fall 98 entering class. That must be you. Anyways, I would like to ask you a few questions regarding your choice to enter D.O. school and your experience with applying.

    First of all, why did you want to become a D.O. and not stick with chiropractic? Was it financial, scope of practice, unhappy with chiropractic etc.? I simply don't agree with the way most chiros practice. It seems in order to make decent money you have to have a high volume practice and in return quality of care drops.
    I'm more interested in having a clinic where efficient patient outcomes are the focus. In addition, as a spine specialist I want to use any means of treatment in order to get patients functional. For example, I want to use manipulation, medical accupunture, proliferant therapy, aggressive rehabilitation, meds, injections etc. I'm obviously not a big chiro philosophy buff. I want to use what works.

    How were your chiro clases percieved? Did they consider your higher G.P.A. in chiro college to be worth any weight? My undergrad G.P.A was also low. Do you have any recommendations in preparing for the MCAT? It's been 4 years since I've had any of the pre-med classes. Is a Princeton Review enough? Should I wait to take the MCATuntil after I graduate in June 2000, or take it while I'm in clinic? I will be 28 when I graduate.

    One more question. Do you have outstanding loans from chiro college? I will owe a 100K. Where you able to get more loans?

    Sorry I have so many questions, but this is as you know a big step.

    Spine Doc

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  9. dcdo

    dcdo Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Jan 26, 1999
    spinedoc,

    Whew!!! You must be out of breath! As far as my problems with chiropractic, they were as follows [​IMG]1)I realized while in DC school that I wanted to be able to do it all, rather than just musculoskeletal(2)"managing" patients- I had problems at previous jobs b/c my patients averaged only 6-8 visits, whereas my employers averaged 20-36. Most DC's try to get everyone to commit to lifetime care(3)Screenings,screenings,screenings- not only did I hate them, but I wasn't good at it because I didn't always think there was something wrong with the person I was checking. If you don't truly believe this you can't convince them either.

    As far as the MCATS don't do what I did. I took them right after graduation(April). Problem was that I had state boards immediately afterward(June). If you don't like studying the accumulated knowledge of all basic and clinical sciences in the space of about 3 months make sure you take the fall MCAT instead. I couldn't afford to take a course, so I bought a bunch of review books (Barrons, Princeton, ARCO) from the regular bookstore and plugged away with those. It had been about 6-7 years since I had those basic classes, but it worked out OK. Most people I know seemed to like review courses though.

    As far as my chiro grades, if anything they were a plus, since the courses are almost the same(at least to LACC classes).

    Loans. I was fortunate enough to pay off most of my loans. You can still get loans, though they will probably be unsubsidized, as you are probably close to the limit on Stafford. I'm not sure if there are total loan limits where the unsubsidized loans are concerned.

    Whew! Now I'm out of breath! Hope this is useful to you. Good luck.

    DCDO
     
  10. spinedoc

    i go to Life University now, and im really regretting the decision. i had known 2 chiropractors as a youngsters, and i had the utmost respect for them. but, since coming to this school 3 quarters ago, i have lost almost all respect for them. i feel like it is a religion, because of the constant preaching that goes on here about how they are so against the medical profession-i grew up in an allopathic household. it is not that i don't believe in the effectiveness of chiropractic, it is the way chiropractors are when they become doctors is what i have a problem with. i find that they try to use big words, such as vertebral subluxation to woo the public into a lifetime of 3 visits a week, which i personally do not think is necessary for a normal average person. i also dislike how almost all new practicioners want a "high volume" practice. when i hear things like that, i feel like the patient is getting neglected when all the doctor wants to do is see patients, healthy or not. another thing that bothers me, is that i see ads all the time in The Chiropractic Journal that say: "Learn how to keep your patients for a lifetime, for only $12,000 you can go to our seminars and learn how to work 3 days a week and see a 1000 patients per week."

    i would want to become a chiropractor if the establishment itself would grow up and unite, rather than having differing opinions on the word subluxation, how to treat patients, and on being a mixer or not. in the end, chiropractic just keeps shooting itself in the foot each and every time all the schools of thought disagree on something; the public doesn't know what to believe because of all the differing things they hear and so rather than putting up with this ambivalence, they would rather see an md or a do, at least they can agree on something. chiropractic will never get the respect it wants, if it keeps acting this way.

    im thinking about applying to dental school for the year 2000. i just wanted to know if you have any idea of how i should go about the process. i graduated with a 3.0 undergrad gpa, and i have about a 3.0 in school right now. i also would love to hear your views on what is going on in this profession. thanks for your time.

    ga
     
  11. SpineDoc

    SpineDoc Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Mar 12, 1999
    Los Gatos, CA
    ga,

    You are definitely in the wrong place. Life-East is one of the most "straight" schools in the profession. That place would drive me nuts! Oh and Sid Williams, that's another story. You must know by now that Life-East is on the extreme left of chiropractic. However, there are many good schools that would be worth looking into. LACC, National, and Western States. Palmer-West in somewhat in the middle of the road, however, I have some of the best professors in the profession. Don't even think about Life-West or Palmer-East.
    I share many of your same frustrations, although, I still want to be a D.C. I would seriously consider looking at LACC. I know they use very little subluxation jargon and are more focused on rehabilitation and musculoskeletal care. This is the way I think chiropractic needs to go. It should be the bread and butter of chiropractic. We should be focusing on Spine Care, functional restoration and prevention of musculoskelatal conditions. Try and get a hold of Craig Liebenson's book, " Rehabilitation of the Spine". This book has really help me focus on the type of practice I want whether it's Chiropractic or Chiro/Medicine. Like I said I have the same problems with chiropractic that you do, however, this does not mean we have to practice this way. I refuse to have a practice based on numbers rather than positive patient outcomes. It can be done. You just need to get in a different enviroment and get with the right people. I know LACC has a climate such as this. In addition, LACC has a much more medically oriented atmosphere. You should also consider National. Don't give up on chiropractic yet.

    I want to go to med school so I can expand my scope of practice. I believe manual and rehabilitative medicine is highly valuable, but I don't want to be limited to conservative care just because of what D.D Palmer said 100 years ago. I basically want a bigger tool bag inorder to help patients any way I can.

    Chiropractic will never have unity, and I'm not going to wait around until they grow up. I have fought with this reality for some time now and came to the conclusion that I'm going to take the road less traveled. Let's talk some more, got to run.

    Darrell

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  12. spinedoc-

    another thing that i was having a problem with is how are chiropractors going to be paid in the future. before i got to school, i thought that insurance was leaning towards paying a lot of it, but since i've gotten to school, they have said that cash practices are a trend of the future.

    i kind of have a problem with taking money directly out of people's pockets, because i know how expensive health care actually is. also, i do not want to charge $10/visit like these high volume gurus do just so that the money can be "over my head," as Sid Williams puts it. i think the knowledge that i have is worth more than $10.

    how is the education out at PalmerWest or LACC? do you feel adequate with the knowledge you have acquired to be a portal entry doctor? i am asking because i know of a few people who are putting together a class action suit against Life University because they feel inadequate with what they were taught to be portal entry physicians. they graduated toward the top of their respective classes also.

    i can understand your frustrations with the field. here at LifeEast we are actually taught to communicate with our patients that we can be their only doctor if they commit to a lifetime of care, which i don't buy. i came to Life-East because im from Florida, and the West was a little far away. i also didn't know that there was such a discrepancy within the chiropractic educational institutions.

    i too have been wanting to deal with the whole patient at times, and i feel the only way to do this is to be a DO, perhaps in addition to being a DC. you do though have a lot of perseverance in wanting to go to school for another 6-7 years.

    good luck, and i would like to hear any comments you have

    ga
     
  13. SpineDoc...
    I am currently a student at Logan College of Chiropractic. I too share your views. I had tremendous respect for Chiropractors before I came to Logan, and now am NOT going any further in DC. I'm going to try to get in to an MD school in 2000. Like someone said, the constant preaching and convincing that a chiropractor has to do is not for me. I think a lot of the problem is the lack of strict guidelines for entry to Chiropractic Colleges. I've met several who "settled" for Chiro because they couldn't get into med school. I've seen nothing but negative about the profession of chiro since I moved to St Louis in Aug. I still believe there is good to be done in the profession, but they definitely scared me off.
     
  14. ScottQC

    ScottQC Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Mar 18, 1999
    I am currently an 8th trimester student at Palmer in Davenport. And I like the others share your views too.
     
  15. mevannorden

    mevannorden Member 10+ Year Member

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    Des Moines, IA USA
    to all disenchanted DC students:
    If you enjoy the manipulation aspect of chiropractic, why not consider osteopathic school? I am in my second semester at the Des Moines osteopathic school (UOMHS). I have already learned how to diagnose and treat sacrum, lumbar, thoracics, cervicals, ribs, and the thoracic inlet. I'll learn more techniques next year. A DO has full practice rights in the US, and I think possibly in Canada and U.K. The quality of education is excellent, and offers certain advantages over allopathic institutions (not to put them down). Since osteopathic students start treating almost from day one, we get used to patient contact. I know it was hard for me to get used to touching people. I felt I was invading their space. Even after working as a dialysis technician for a year, where I stuck people with needles, I still wasn't used to touching others, often in very personal places! Anyway, just a thought. Manipulation is the main thing that drew me to an osteopathic school.
     
  16. Chiropractic is stupid and it isn't even a real health care field. You can get your DC in just a 18 months and most of the classes you take just teach these "doctors" how to rip people off. I had a friend that started at National when he was 19, in 2007, and was a chiropractor by the age of 21. He said that 90% of the classes just involved learning how to push supplements and most of the "professors" were just people that worked at botanical companies. He said to get an A in physiology, you had to sell at least $150 worth a supplements at the local mall and the class ended after just three weeks. Most students ended up getting an A because they just bought the pills themselves. It is outrageous!

    I also heard that at NYCC, you can get "life experience" credits, which means you just send in a few thousand dollars and they send you a DC with in a few weeks. I mean it is nothing but a fake correspondence college!

    All of chiropractic colleges are just diploma mills turning out tens of thousands of chiropractors a year. I have seen news reports of people sending these "colleges" a few thousand dollars and they sent the person's dog a DC degree. They were able to do it at a place called Life University, University of Bridgeport, and Parker College. I am 100% serious.

    ScottQC, i would recommend you drop out of Logan, it isn't worth it!
     
  17. DrMom

    DrMom Official Mom of SDN Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Nice bump of a more than decade old thread.
     
  18. Samus2008

    Samus2008 Banned 2+ Year Member

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  19. MLT2MT2DO

    MLT2MT2DO 10+ Year Member

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    Wow, from two months before I graduated high school....epic necro bump.
     
  20. Atom bum

    Atom bum 5+ Year Member

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    Epic? Or the most epic of all time? This is the most awesome thread bumping I have ever witnessed.
    Lots of the kids here were still in elementary school!
    This is amazing. Thanks landsealion for brightening my crappy day!
     
  21. CopToEM

    CopToEM Livin' the Dream 5+ Year Member

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    I did a tour of a school and there were three guys there who were partners in a chiropractic practice. All of them were applying to the osteopathic school. I hope they all three got in because if not I bet that created a really odd situation.
     
  22. lftbndlbrnchblk

    lftbndlbrnchblk 7+ Year Member

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    You're right about this, I was in 6th grade. Wow. I don't think we had the internet back then in our home. What's a forum is what I probably would have said back then LOL!

    ... even then, I always knew I wanted to be a DO. ;)
     
  23. MLT2MT2DO

    MLT2MT2DO 10+ Year Member

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    Save it for your interviews :hungover:
     
  24. Did you know that the average chiropractor has over $350,000 of student loan debt but only makes about $35,000 a year? How are they supposed to pay that off? No wonder 73% default on their student loans! Just more proof that chiropractic is an awful career!
     
  25. MLT2MT2DO

    MLT2MT2DO 10+ Year Member

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    Mind posting a link from where you've gotten your "scholarly" information from?
     
  26. Drrrrrr. Celty

    Drrrrrr. Celty Osteo Dullahan 7+ Year Member

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    I don't particularly think your numbers are correct. The bureau of labor estimate DC's make more around 55-65k a year. But of course that's variable between area's. And Chiro school costs around 100k for the whole program so 350k of debt is more than likely a high end estimate. Regardless a career as a chiropractor is dubious and highly founded in pseudoscience. But that does not stop many chiro's from making quite a good amount of money.
     
  27. Looks like we have a chiropractic apologist in our ranks. Maybe if you get your "subluxations" "adjusted" then you will stop believing their nonsense. Lol!
     
  28. TriagePreMed

    TriagePreMed Banned Banned 2+ Year Member

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    Skepticism = chiropractic apologist? From all your pre-med courses you weren't able to grasp the most basic concepts of all?
     
  29. Endolas

    Endolas 2+ Year Member

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    Amazing bump. 1999. Jeeezus. Where has the time gone?
     
  30. loveoforganic

    loveoforganic -Account Deactivated- 2+ Year Member

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    troooooooooooooooollllllll bump
     
  31. nlax30

    nlax30 Fellow Physician 10+ Year Member

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    Kinda makes me wanna go and bump the oldest thread I can find. Wonder if the very first SDN thread is still on here....
     
  32. I bet you did your undergraduate at Life University. LOL! Good luck paying back your $500,000 in student loans!
     
  33. Drrrrrr. Celty

    Drrrrrr. Celty Osteo Dullahan 7+ Year Member

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    No.. I think he did his undergrad at a top 25 school. I think you're trolling your ass off right now and just beat down. Seriously this duality of "you're either with me or against me" is kinda lame. You gave extraordinarily absurd numbers and that made people skeptical and demand proof. They were not disagreeing with you on the premise of chiropractory being a bull **** career, they simply wanted you to properly source your information like any other academic statement.
    It's simple internet etiquette and you're failing at it horribly.
     
  34. MLT2MT2DO

    MLT2MT2DO 10+ Year Member

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    Maybe if you could start providing a reference people would start believing yours.
     
  35. unhappytnt

    unhappytnt 2+ Year Member

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  36. AgActual

    AgActual 5+ Year Member

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    This is the greatest bump i have ever seen. Not just because this thread was started during the clinton administration but because there was absolutely no point in actually reviving it. The random pointlessness borders on brilliant. No real discussion has actually be generated by it, just a lot of clearly made up statistics and some slightly annoyed people. I think we either have an anti-chiropractic fanatic or someone that is really bored this week.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  37. ToldYouSo

    ToldYouSo Student 7+ Year Member

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    lol! +500
     
  38. Why are you so afraid to debate? Why don't you just respond to my points instead of criticizing the way I write? Typical nonsensical arguments from fans of chiropractic. You are so good at dodging my points, I think you might just be a chiropractor yourself :laugh:
     
  39. Drrrrrr. Celty

    Drrrrrr. Celty Osteo Dullahan 7+ Year Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  40. Drrrrrr. Celty

    Drrrrrr. Celty Osteo Dullahan 7+ Year Member

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    This thread is now about Bill Cosby.


    [​IMG]
     
  41. Alright, if we must get this debate going and finally show you chiropracty supporters how wrong you are, I got most of my information from here.

    http://chirotalk.proboards.com/index.cgi

    Go there sometime, you will finally learn the truth from real life chiropractors, like how you can get your DC in a few months or how chiropractic education costs about 3x-4x more than med school or how chiropractic manipulations have been shown to cause brain damage in 1 out of every 4 people who receive them. It is a real eye opener and they are really objective in their reporting.
     
  42. TriagePreMed

    TriagePreMed Banned Banned 2+ Year Member

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    Is there a way to see this website without it giving me a seizure with all its colors?
     
  43. MLT2MT2DO

    MLT2MT2DO 10+ Year Member

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    You got your FACTS from another messageboard? Why am I not suprised? So did you actually have a point in bumping this 11 year old thread or did you just need to start a crusade against chiropractors?

    Actually I don't really care, this is the last time I'll be posting in this thread. Also it may behoove you to look up the word "debate" in the dictionary as this has never been one, and I'm not pro nor anti chiro, I simply just think you sir are a joker.
     
  44. I am glad to see you defending chiropractors for causing brain damage and blindness. 1 out of every 500 people manipulated by a chiropractor goes blind and experiences severe permanent visual impairment. How do you sleep at night defending these "people".
     
  45. cliquesh

    cliquesh 10+ Year Member

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    lol, is that a joke?
     
  46. A joke? Do you really think all of the people killed or dare i say murdered by chiropractors out to make money is a joke? Who knows how many tens of thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of people have been killed by chiropractors? Pretending to be a doctors is a dangerous business and chiropractors don't seem to care. For nearly a century they have been preaching their propaganda at the detriment of our society. You laugh as they fill grave after grave as they practice their deadly form of medicine on unsuspecting patients. Who knows how many have been blinded, brain damaged, poisoned and killed by their sham treatments.

    Yeah, that all very hilarious.
     
  47. jeffro1080

    jeffro1080 Ninja 2+ Year Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  48. I found an article written back in december from News Week pegging the number of deaths caused by chiropractors as 27,000 per year and the author said that the number true number is likely much higher but is being suppressed by the ACA.
     
  49. Is it just me or does it seem that most chiropractors have a rather brutish look to them? They almost look like Neanderthals in lab coats. Someone should do some research into this, see if they are more closely related to earlier versions of humans than to modern homosapiens. It sure would explain a lot :laugh:
     
  50. cliquesh

    cliquesh 10+ Year Member

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    Kill yourself, please.
     

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