Career change - Low GPA - What to do? I need help...

[pbsd]

Good morning fellow hopefuls/helpfuls,

First, I want to thank all the contributing members to this forum for their input as there is a tremendous support community here and I think it's wonderful!

At the same time, all your wonderful input can also be extremely overwhelming, especially to a lurker like me who has spent the past 2 weeks reading thread after thread of opinions and advice.

So, here's my situation:

-Graduated in 2005 with a BA in English
-My overall GPA was 2.89
-I've taken none of the required sciences
-I've never taken an MCAT (why would I before taking any sciences?)

Now, I know that GPA is abysmal, and when I present my situation to anyone who knows me they are shocked to hear that number because it's absolutely not representative of me or my abilities. To be fair, when I was in university, I was working full time and attending full time - I was young and making an obscene amount of money. At the same time, both my high school and university (CUNY) had terrible guidance and administration so I grew up thinking I could never become a doctor and found more satisfaction in just working hard doing what I did best.

But here I am, at 27! I've had an amazing and successful career as a graphics designer (not related to anything I studied at university) - award winning, might I add, with amazing references and a brilliant resume. I've been seriously blessed in that realm, but at the end of the day, it's not what makes me happy. I don't want to get into the reasons why I want to be a doctor, but it's been a dream of mine since childhood.

I also went back to a SUNY school in 2008 for a second degree (in design) and my GPA was 3.7 or higher (I got mostly A's and a B), but did not finish that degree. I know that won't matter to medical schools, but could it potentially matter to Post-Bac programs that have a strict 3.0+ policy, and may look over my 2.89?

So what is the proper thing to do from here? I've read a hundred methods under the sun, but at the end of the day, my BA file is "closed" I feel like I can't go back and "add" to my GPA - what's my next step?

So in addition to my questions above I'd like to know:

1. At this point, do I apply for a Post-Bac Pre-Health program, and take the required courses over the next 2 years?

2. Assuming I get a solid 3.7 - 4.0 in those science courses, will prospective medical schools laugh me off? Or will I have wasted 2 years only to find I can do nothing with the science I learned?

3. Has anyone been in my situation and actually became an MD in the US (non-Caribbean)?

4. I have read about people going to programs like HES (Harvard Extension School) to "raise" their GPA - is that program for me or is it for students who have done the required courses, but didn't do so well? I'm confused a bit about that.

5. Let's say a post-bac takes me, can I raise my chances of being accepted to a medical school by taking elective courses for another year or so after finishing the pre-reqs? I'm assuming it can't hurt, but is there weight to taking, bioethics, for example? Do med schools see me as someone with potential rather than someone with a 2.89 undergrad GPA?

6. I have the option of going back to my alma mater (CUNY Brooklyn College) and taking the pre-req science/math courses with them. It's not a pre-bac program like Hunter or City College or NYU or Columbia, but it's just the required courses. The department also helps with letters of recommendation and so on. From what I gather there's a little less "support" at BC vs. the other schools, but they are the courses nonetheless. Is this a bad/last resort option? edit: It is considered a Pre Bac program, but it's not structured. Students in this program are joined with students in the traditional undergrad BA program.

7. I've been out of school for a few years, I've gained some amazing life experiences. Does any of that matter to prospective medical schools? I hate this feeling inside me that for the one goal I want to achieve that everything I've done up until now is "useless" because it's far from that - it's what shaped me into who I am today.

I sincerely appreciate your help on this. I know we all have different situations, and life isn't peachy or easy for everyone, we all have our struggles and we're all here to help one another. I'm just another guy looking to make a difference and can use some honest guidance to help me on that path.

Have a great holiday weekend everyone!

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[aSagacious]

I apologize in advance for my reply if it comes off as a bit frank, but here it goes.

Nothing that you've done in the past 10 years suggests to a medical school admissions committee that you have any interest in a career in medicine. You did not mention a single clinical, research, or medicine-related activity.

If you had poor numbers, but at least your extra-curriculars demonstrated a consistent commitment to medicine, you might be able to make up some ground.

Your GPA at this point is irreconcilable since you've taken so many credits, and the fact that you've taken zero pre-reqs means that your are ill-prepared to take the MCAT.

If you are serious about pursuing med school, I suggest the following (though it will NOT be easy). Go back to school and take a few years of undergrad pre-reqs and get all A's. When you're done taking pre-reqs, take your MCAT and apply to a post-bac with GUARANTEED linkage (temple, tulane, georgetown, etc), though it is important that you not underestimate the competitiveness of the post-bac admissions. If you get in, all you need to do is maintain a certain GPA and perform well on the MCAT (easier said than done) and you have a guaranteed acceptance to the parent medical school of your post-bac program.

 

[pbsd]

I apologize in advance for my reply if it comes off as a bit frank, but here it goes.

Nothing that you've done in the past 10 years suggests to a medical school admissions committee that you have any interest in a career in medicine. You did not mention a single clinical, research, or medicine-related activity.

If you had poor numbers, but at least your extra-curriculars demonstrated a consistent commitment to medicine, you might be able to make up some ground.

Your GPA at this point is irreconcilable since you've taken so many credits, and the fact that you've taken zero pre-reqs means that your are ill-prepared to take the MCAT.

If you are serious about pursuing med school, I suggest the following (though it will NOT be easy). Go back to school and take a few years of undergrad pre-reqs and get all A's. When you're done taking pre-reqs, take your MCAT and apply to a post-bac with GUARANTEED linkage (temple, tulane, georgetown, etc), though it is important that you not underestimate the competitiveness of the post-bac admissions. If you get in, all you need to do is maintain a certain GPA and perform well on the MCAT (easier said than done) and you have a guaranteed acceptance to the parent medical school of your post-bac program.

1. I thank you for your frankness. I realize that I'm in a situation that requires me to accept that this is going to be more work than I'll ever have imagined.

2. I am in fact serious about this pursuit. In fact, I've never been more sure that I've wanted to do something in my life.

3. My issue is this - when I spoke with a director at NYU, they told me it was pointless to take any more undergrad credits since I've already graduated and those numbers do not affect my GPA. The woman said "I'm not going to waste my time with anyone medical school isn't going to waste their time with" and I found those words to be more encouraging to prove her wrong.

On the same note, I want to make sure you understood my position correctly - I am not looking to apply to medical school NOW. I know I need to take the required science courses, which to the best of my understanding is the "post bac program." I'm just curious if I start taking these courses/join the program (Bio, Chemistry, Physics, Calc, etc) AS WELL as additional courses (bioethics, etc) - and do exceptionally well in them, take the MCATS, do well in that - Is medical school possible for someone like me?

(I guess I'm just confused why you told me to go back to school, take the pre-reqs, then take my MCATS only to apply to Post-Bac? Wouldn't I apply to Med school after all that?)

4. For what it's worth, I'm working on volunteering/shadowing at the moment.

 

[aSagacious]

The woman said "I'm not going to waste my time with anyone medical school isn't going to waste their time with" and I found those words to be more encouraging to prove her wrong.

This is true of all post-bac programs. There are generally 2 types of programs:
1) You've taken the pre-reqs, but have a poor GPA. Other than the GPA, you are a fairly competitive candidate.
2) You have not taken the pre-reqs, but have a solid GPA and great ECs.

All programs want to do as little work as possible to get you into med school. Ideally, they are looking for people who are on the fence with the admissions committees and just need a little boost to be accepted. In doing so, they inflate their stats ("we had 99% of our students matriculate to a med school the year after they completed our program") and therefore entice more competitive applicants the following year.

I guess I'm just confused why you told me to go back to school, take the pre-reqs, then take my MCATS only to apply to Post-Bac? Wouldn't I apply to Med school after all that?

I say this because you will probably not be accepted to a #2 post-bac (see above for #2 reference) because of your GPA. Instead, let's say you go back to school for three years and get a 3.9 taking your pre-reqs. This will put your cumulative GPA ~3.0 and your science GPA will be a 3.9. Now, let's also suppose that you'll do well on your MCAT (31+) for the sake of argument.

As you can see here with a 3.0/31 you have about a 30% chance of getting into an MD program: https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

In spite of this, you'd make a fairly competitive candidate for a #1 post-bac program due to your upward grade trend, so they might be willing to take a shot with you.

 

[pbsd]

This is true of all post-bac programs. There are generally 2 types of programs:
1) You've taken the pre-reqs, but have a poor GPA. Other than the GPA, you are a fairly competitive candidate.
2) You have not taken the pre-reqs, but have a solid GPA and great ECs.

All programs want to do as little work as possible to get you into med school. Ideally, they are looking for people who are on the fence with the admissions committees and just need a little boost to be accepted. In doing so, they inflate their stats ("we had 99% of our students matriculate to a med school the year after they completed our program") and therefore entice more competitive applicants the following year.



I say this because you will probably not be accepted to a #2 post-bac (see above for #2 reference) because of your GPA. Instead, let's say you go back to school for three years and get a 3.9 taking your pre-reqs. This will put your cumulative GPA ~3.0 and your science GPA will be a 3.9. Now, let's also suppose that you'll well on your MCAT (31+) for the sake of argument.

As you can see here with a 3.0/31 you have about a 30% chance of getting into an MD program: https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

In spite of this, you'd make a fairly competitive candidate for a #1 post-bac program due to your upward grade trend, so they might be willing to take a shot with you due to an upward grade trend.

Right, I understand that part now. They take sGPA and cGPA - my confusion is this: I've already graduated. How is my cGPA from 2005 suddenly increasing because I am taking new classes? NYU told me that GPA is "sealed" and cannot be altered and that these "new" classes are just in a class of their own - has no reflection of my initial GPA. Only the sciences are shown in a class of their own, and it does not have much weight (which makes no sense to me!)

I suppose I was also confused because all the programs I've been looking at have been related to "career changers" and they all have a disclaimer on their web pages saying "this is not for anyone looking to increase their GPA/have already taken the pre-required courses" or something to that effect - which is why I assumed that Post-Bac Pre-Med was something limited to students in my situation (when in fact the definition of it is basically open to interpretation).

I'm willing to go back to school for a few years without a doubt, take the pre required courses, take MORE courses in both science and other areas, nail my MCATS and attempt a medical school admittance.

And I thank you for your patience in explaining all this to me - I know these questions are asked a thousand times over and people get tired of explaining it.

 

[aSagacious]

How is my cGPA from 2005 suddenly increasing because I am taking new classes? NYU told me that GPA is "sealed" and cannot be altered and that these "new" classes are just in a class of their own - has no reflection of my initial GPA.

Correct, since you've completed your bachelor's degree, they are in a class of their own. But, any admissions committee (MD, post-bac, or other) will look at all of the classes that you've taken and determine some sort of a cumulative GPA (what I was describing was not a cGPA by its strict definition)

I suppose I was also confused because all the programs I've been looking at have been related to "career changers" and they all have a disclaimer on their web pages saying "this is not for anyone looking to increase their GPA/have already taken the pre-required courses"

As I stated earlier, there are two types. You must have, coincidentally, stumbled upon programs of the same type. Rest assured that there are programs out there that suit your needs should you decide to beef up your science background first.

I'm willing to go back to school for a few years without a doubt, take the pre required courses, take MORE courses in both science and other areas, nail my MCATS and attempt a medical school admittance.

Great, that's a good attitude. Though I do not recommend wasting your time on any more non-science classes, you've already taken plenty of those (no reason to give the schools any more of your money). Stick to the sciences, and make sure grades are your first priority.

And I thank you for your patience in explaining all this to me - I know these questions are asked a thousand times over and people get tired of explaining it.

My pleasure, that's what we're here for.

 

[DrMidlife]

Now, I know that GPA is abysmal, and when I present my situation to anyone who knows me they are shocked to hear that number because it's absolutely not representative of me or my abilities. To be fair, when I was in university, I was working full time and attending full time - I was young and making an obscene amount of money. At the same time, both my high school and university (CUNY) had terrible guidance and administration so I grew up thinking I could never become a doctor and found more satisfaction in just working hard doing what I did best.

OK, 2 things:
1. Can you get straight A's in extremely hard coursework now? If your answer is yes, what makes you so confident?
2. You'll have endless opportunities when applying to discuss things that went wrong, why they're not indicative of your talents, and why they won't happen again.

But here I am, at 27! I've had an amazing and successful career as a graphics designer (not related to anything I studied at university) - award winning, might I add, with amazing references and a brilliant resume. I've been seriously blessed in that realm, but at the end of the day, it's not what makes me happy. I don't want to get into the reasons why I want to be a doctor, but it's been a dream of mine since childhood.

Please understand that success in another field provides no evidence that you'd be a great doctor. You have to jump through the same hoops as the fresh squeaky 21 year old biology majors. Doesn't matter how old you are.

I also went back to a SUNY school in 2008 for a second degree (in design) and my GPA was 3.7 or higher (I got mostly A's and a B), but did not finish that degree. I know that won't matter to medical schools, but could it potentially matter to Post-Bac programs that have a strict 3.0+ policy, and may look over my 2.89?

It doesn't matter whether you finished the degree. How GPA works for med school is that every undergrad class you ever took is averaged into your cumulative undergrad GPA. So you need to do the math to see what your cumulative average is over all your studies.

So what is the proper thing to do from here? I've read a hundred methods under the sun, but at the end of the day, my BA file is "closed" I feel like I can't go back and "add" to my GPA - what's my next step?

Your undergrad file is never closed. You can always take more undergrad coursework; all of it gets averaged together. When it's time to apply to med school, in addition to cumulative numbers, the app will break down your GPA by science/non-science and by fresh/soph/jr/sr/postbac. All undergrad coursework after you've received a first degree goes in postbac.

1. At this point, do I apply for a Post-Bac Pre-Health program, and take the required courses over the next 2 years?

You're not likely to get into a well-known premed postbac such as Bryn Mawr or Goucher. I expect you need to take quite a bit more coursework than just the prereqs. I think you should be looking at a second bachelors, in a hard science (biochem etc), from a regular university.

2. Assuming I get a solid 3.7 - 4.0 in those science courses, will prospective medical schools laugh me off? Or will I have wasted 2 years only to find I can do nothing with the science I learned?

Assume no such thing. Before you take any premed coursework, go take a math class and an intro science class, maybe at night. Get A's or don't proceed.

The way you're talking about med school sounds like the way my friends and I talk about shoes. The commitment level for med school is HUGE and you're not talking like somebody who understands that. From a 2.89 in English it's completely insane to try to go to med school. If you choose to pursue it, you have to accept that there are no guarantees, that the odds are not in your favor, and that it's going to take a long time. Also accept that you might end up at a UMass or a SUNY, not so much an ivy.

I suggest that you should do a great deal of reading in the low GPA threads in this forum. These can give you a sense of what you're in for.

And the best advice I've received so far: if there's anything else you'd be happy doing, for the love of all that's holy don't be a doctor.

3. Has anyone been in my situation and actually became an MD in the US (non-Caribbean)?

Yes. Read threads in this forum and in nontrad. Also I suggest that you'll want to find out what a DO is, because you'll get a lot of people telling you to consider it (or PA).

4. I have read about people going to programs like HES (Harvard Extension School) to "raise" their GPA - is that program for me or is it for students who have done the required courses, but didn't do so well? I'm confused a bit about that.

HES is a possibility for you. You are what's called a career changer and you're also what's called an academic enhancer. Just keep in mind that you need a lot more coursework, not just the prereqs.

5. Let's say a post-bac takes me, can I raise my chances of being accepted to a medical school by taking elective courses for another year or so after finishing the pre-reqs? I'm assuming it can't hurt, but is there weight to taking, bioethics, for example? Do med schools see me as someone with potential rather than someone with a 2.89 undergrad GPA?

Any undergrad you take gets averaged in. The 2.89 will not be visible except on your first school's transcript. The number that matters is the cumulative average for all the undergrad work you do. If that cumulative number is 3.5, then you're a 3.5.

I should mention that the cumulative science GPA number is really important as well. You could have a 4.0 here, and that would help your story. See previous about making sure you can get A's before you start the prereqs.

6. I have the option of going back to my alma mater (CUNY Brooklyn College) and taking the pre-req science/math courses with them. It's not a pre-bac program like Hunter or City College or NYU or Columbia, but it's just the required courses. The department also helps with letters of recommendation and so on. From what I gather there's a little less "support" at BC vs. the other schools, but they are the courses nonetheless. Is this a bad/last resort option? edit: It is considered a Pre Bac program, but it's not structured. Students in this program are joined with students in the traditional undergrad BA program.

That's fine. Anywhere you can get A's is a good school for you.

7. I've been out of school for a few years, I've gained some amazing life experiences. Does any of that matter to prospective medical schools? I hate this feeling inside me that for the one goal I want to achieve that everything I've done up until now is "useless" because it's far from that - it's what shaped me into who I am today.

Life experience is an EC (extra curricular) and what you gain from it is maturity and savvy. You don't get invited to the party without solid academic credentials, but once you're at the party you can "win" the party by being interesting. Keep in mind that there are a large number of insanely interesting people who want to take your med school seat away from you, and they have published research papers, started free clinics, worked in the Peace Corps and removed land mines in Afghanistan.

Nothing that you've done in the past 10 years suggests to a medical school admissions committee that you have any interest in a career in medicine. You did not mention a single clinical, research, or medicine-related activity.

I totally agree with this. I suggested above that before you take the prereqs you need to find out if you can get A's in math or science. Before you try to get those preliminary A's, you need to do some clinical volunteering. Smell some patients and clean up some puke. You should start this right away. Today would be good.

If you had poor numbers, but at least your extra-curriculars demonstrated a consistent commitment to medicine, you might be able to make up some ground.

This I disagree with. I didn't have a single medical-related activity until I was 38. It's possible to start an interest in medicine later than kindergarten.

Your GPA at this point is irreconcilable since you've taken so many credits, and the fact that you've taken zero pre-reqs means that your are ill-prepared to take the MCAT.

This I also disagree with because it doesn't make sense. The OP hasn't taken the prereqs so the MCAT isn't on the table yet. Per the OP's description, he/she did a couple additional years at maybe a 3.7. The cumulative is probably closer to 3.1 right now. We have only seen maybe a hundred thousand people in this forum who are trying to get into med school from a 3.1 (some of whom come back and tell us they got into med school).

If you are serious about pursuing med school, I suggest the following (though it will NOT be easy). Go back to school and take a few years of undergrad pre-reqs and get all A's. When you're done taking pre-reqs, take your MCAT and apply to a post-bac with GUARANTEED linkage (temple, tulane, georgetown, etc), though it is important that you not underestimate the competitiveness of the post-bac admissions. If you get in, all you need to do is maintain a certain GPA and perform well on the MCAT (easier said than done) and you have a guaranteed acceptance to the parent medical school of your post-bac program.

This I generally agree with, except that the programs in the list are Special Masters Programs (not postbacs like where you take prereqs), and that there is never ever ever ever a guarantee, not even at Temple. Also it's not clear at this point if an SMP is needed - we don't know yet what the OP's cumulative GPA will be after the prereqs. With a very solid science GPA and a very solid MCAT, even if the overall cumulative is only 3.2 or so, an SMP would be overkill.

To review:
1. Start clinical volunteering right now. If you don't love it, don't go to med school.
2. Take a math class and a science class. If you don't get A's, don't take the prereqs.
3. Pick a school, take a ton of hard science including the prereqs, and get A's. If you don't get A's, drop out so you don't do more GPA damage.
4. Assume you need to spend several months and a couple thousand dollars on MCAT prep, and that you might not be able to get a good score in time to avoid a gap year.

Best of luck to you.

 

[pbsd]

1. Can you get straight A's in extremely hard coursework now? If your answer is yes, what makes you so confident?

At my school, we had "Core" classes that I did exceptionally well in. That includes math, computer information sciences, biology, physics and chemistry. They are just that, core classes, but I also went back to school and was pulling all A's.

2. You'll have endless opportunities when applying to discuss things that went wrong, why they're not indicative of your talents, and why they won't happen again.

Good.

Please understand that success in another field provides no evidence that you'd be a great doctor. You have to jump through the same hoops as the fresh squeaky 21 year old biology majors. Doesn't matter how old you are.

I don't think that because I was successful as a designer that I will be successful at med school. I do however know what hard work, long hours, dedication and drive are and I do know I possess those qualities and can translate them to another career.

It doesn't matter whether you finished the degree. How GPA works for med school is that every undergrad class you ever took is averaged into your cumulative undergrad GPA. So you need to do the math to see what your cumulative average is over all your studies.

Your undergrad file is never closed. You can always take more undergrad coursework; all of it gets averaged together. When it's time to apply to med school, in addition to cumulative numbers, the app will break down your GPA by science/non-science and by fresh/soph/jr/sr/postbac. All undergrad coursework after you've received a first degree goes in postbac.

You're not likely to get into a well-known premed postbac such as Bryn Mawr or Goucher. I expect you need to take quite a bit more coursework than just the prereqs. I think you should be looking at a second bachelors, in a hard science (biochem etc), from a regular university.

Would a second bachelors require me to repeat the courses I have already completed for my initial bachelors?

Assume no such thing. Before you take any premed coursework, go take a math class and an intro science class, maybe at night. Get A's or don't proceed.

Sound advice and I've been visiting schools all last week (and next week) to see what options I have to take a math and science class this summer and see how I fare.

The way you're talking about med school sounds like the way my friends and I talk about shoes. The commitment level for med school is HUGE and you're not talking like somebody who understands that. From a 2.89 in English it's completely insane to try to go to med school. If you choose to pursue it, you have to accept that there are no guarantees, that the odds are not in your favor, and that it's going to take a long time. Also accept that you might end up at a UMass or a SUNY, not so much an ivy.

I understand very well what commitment is involved. The reason I am coming here is to seek advice from people who have been in my situation and I'm serious enough to be here to know how to do it right. I also am not expecting Harvard to take me - but at the same time, I don't believe that the only way to be happy is to graduate from an ivy. There are plenty of people who love what they do coming out of a SUNY and do well for themselves.

I suggest that you should do a great deal of reading in the low GPA threads in this forum. These can give you a sense of what you're in for.

And the best advice I've received so far: if there's anything else you'd be happy doing, for the love of all that's holy don't be a doctor.

Yes. Read threads in this forum and in nontrad. Also I suggest that you'll want to find out what a DO is, because you'll get a lot of people telling you to consider it (or PA).

Thanks, will do more of that research.

HES is a possibility for you. You are what's called a career changer and you're also what's called an academic enhancer. Just keep in mind that you need a lot more coursework, not just the prereqs.

But HES something that I do AFTER taking all these courses, right? It's not something I apply to now.

Any undergrad you take gets averaged in. The 2.89 will not be visible except on your first school's transcript. The number that matters is the cumulative average for all the undergrad work you do. If that cumulative number is 3.5, then you're a 3.5.

I should mention that the cumulative science GPA number is really important as well. You could have a 4.0 here, and that would help your story. See previous about making sure you can get A's before you start the prereqs.

Noted, and good to know.

That's fine. Anywhere you can get A's is a good school for you.

Life experience is an EC (extra curricular) and what you gain from it is maturity and savvy. You don't get invited to the party without solid academic credentials, but once you're at the party you can "win" the party by being interesting. Keep in mind that there are a large number of insanely interesting people who want to take your med school seat away from you, and they have published research papers, started free clinics, worked in the Peace Corps and removed land mines in Afghanistan.

I totally agree with this. I suggested above that before you take the prereqs you need to find out if you can get A's in math or science. Before you try to get those preliminary A's, you need to do some clinical volunteering. Smell some patients and clean up some puke. You should start this right away. Today would be good.

This I disagree with. I didn't have a single medical-related activity until I was 38. It's possible to start an interest in medicine later than kindergarten.

This I also disagree with because it doesn't make sense. The OP hasn't taken the prereqs so the MCAT isn't on the table yet. Per the OP's description, he/she did a couple additional years at maybe a 3.7. The cumulative is probably closer to 3.1 right now. We have only seen maybe a hundred thousand people in this forum who are trying to get into med school from a 3.1 (some of whom come back and tell us they got into med school).

This I generally agree with, except that the programs in the list are Special Masters Programs (not postbacs like where you take prereqs), and that there is never ever ever ever a guarantee, not even at Temple. Also it's not clear at this point if an SMP is needed - we don't know yet what the OP's cumulative GPA will be after the prereqs. With a very solid science GPA and a very solid MCAT, even if the overall cumulative is only 3.2 or so, an SMP would be overkill.

To review:
1. Start clinical volunteering right now. If you don't love it, don't go to med school.
2. Take a math class and a science class. If you don't get A's, don't take the prereqs.
3. Pick a school, take a ton of hard science including the prereqs, and get A's. If you don't get A's, drop out so you don't do more GPA damage.
4. Assume you need to spend several months and a couple thousand dollars on MCAT prep, and that you might not be able to get a good score in time to avoid a gap year.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you very much for all this. Very helpful. I'm going to work on #1 and #2 ASAP. I know I'm in for a lot, but I also have the ability/fortunate luxurty to do all this while not having to work, so my focus can exclusively be on the education factor.

 

[DrMidlife]

Would a second bachelors require me to repeat the courses I have already completed for my initial bachelors?

Generally no. Generally the requirements for a 2nd bachelors are:
1. All the classes in the major
2. Any non-petitionable core requirements that you haven't met yet (an example would be a chapel or foreign language requirement)
3. Whatever the senior project requirement is

But HES something that I do AFTER taking all these courses, right? It's not something I apply to now.

HES is one of the choices for doing more undergrad, including the prereqs. If you want to be at CCNY, then you'd do CCNY instead of HES.

One concern for school choice is how much upper div science is available. Smaller schools might go as far as to have a biochem major, but you'd have to go to a bigger school to get a smorgasbord of upper div microbio, immuno, physio, genetics, neuro etc.

Another thing, start paying attention to the premed advising events held at any med school you're near. The marketing/recruiting talks are pointless, but if a dean or a member of the admissions committee is doing a talk, that's a good use of time. Also watch for events at med schools that are open to the public - it's inspiring to sit in a room full of physicians listening to stuff you can't yet comprehend about calcium channels or whatnot. Here's an example of what they do at my home state's huge public med school, for comparison.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Ivory12]

... what's my next step?

So in addition to my questions above I'd like to know:

1. At this point, do I apply for a Post-Bac Pre-Health program, and take the required courses over the next 2 years?

2. Assuming I get a solid 3.7 - 4.0 in those science courses, will prospective medical schools laugh me off? Or will I have wasted 2 years only to find I can do nothing with the science I learned?

3. Has anyone been in my situation and actually became an MD in the US (non-Caribbean)?

4. I have read about people going to programs like HES (Harvard Extension School) to "raise" their GPA - is that program for me or is it for students who have done the required courses, but didn't do so well? I'm confused a bit about that.

5. Let's say a post-bac takes me, can I raise my chances of being accepted to a medical school by taking elective courses for another year or so after finishing the pre-reqs? I'm assuming it can't hurt, but is there weight to taking, bioethics, for example? Do med schools see me as someone with potential rather than someone with a 2.89 undergrad GPA?

6. I have the option of going back to my alma mater (CUNY Brooklyn College) and taking the pre-req science/math courses with them. It's not a pre-bac program like Hunter or City College or NYU or Columbia, but it's just the required courses. The department also helps with letters of recommendation and so on. From what I gather there's a little less "support" at BC vs. the other schools, but they are the courses nonetheless. Is this a bad/last resort option? edit: It is considered a Pre Bac program, but it's not structured. Students in this program are joined with students in the traditional undergrad BA program.

7. I've been out of school for a few years, I've gained some amazing life experiences. Does any of that matter to prospective medical schools? I hate this feeling inside me that for the one goal I want to achieve that everything I've done up until now is "useless" because it's far from that - it's what shaped me into who I am today.

As others have alluded to, you need to figure out A) if you really want to do medicine and B) if you can. To do the former, I'd volunteer/shadow/etc. Go late at night when people are tired and cranky and all the weird stuff comes in, smell the code browns, see people die, see the drug-seeking behaviour, see the teenage mothers, see the people come in with problems that transcend the medical and leave without you really being able to do anything about it. 'Scrubs' it aint. If all the depressing stuff is outweighed by the good stuff and your passion for medicine, press on.
To do the latter, go somewhere cheap and take introductory chem and pre-calc or something.

1. You do not necessarily need to apply anywhere, you can do a post-bacc on your own, but you do need to take the pre-reqs and ideally a couple (or more, depending on where your GPA is) hard UD science courses.

2. There are no guarantees, and that's one of the hard things about committing to this process - but people have been way worse off than you and gotten in.

3. See above.

4. A program like HES has been utilized by both groups - those who have taken some science and not done very well, and people like you who have taken no science.

5. I'm not on an admissions committee, but doing well in biochem or something surely wouldn't hurt. For someone in your position, I think hard sciences like immunology, microbiology, genetics, etc. would have a lot more benefit than something like bioethics.

6. Whether or not you need the structure depends on your personality. Some people can't hack it with the 19-year-olds and like being around other nontrads, while some find the youngsters rejuvenating. Your call.

7. Being interesting is good. Your life experience is never wasted as long as you develop into a better person because of it. If you were applying now with zero medical experience, that might be a problem. But you're not. You'll be applying in 3-4 years with 3-4 years of volunteering/shadowing/etc. showing your interest in and commitment to medicine.

My feeling on this whole process is that you need to be rational and take advice from others, but don't be too rational - otherwise you never would've started this process in the first place.