Caribbean Med School -- Disadvantage?
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keep in mind people, the tons of foreign docs you see on the resident lists where you come from are FOREIGN doctors, not some US students who ****ed up and had to go overseas for thier education. The latter carries a hell of a lot less respect.
And for anyone who actually believes that Carib MD > DO, I strongly question your ability to analyze situations critically, since you're clearly too dense to see beyond the initials.
And for anyone who actually believes that Carib MD > DO, I strongly question your ability to analyze situations critically, since you're clearly too dense to see beyond the initials.
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P.S. Does LisaMD know you feel this way about DO's, I know that this is one of her future goals.
Hahaha...
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I used to feel that way, so I am not going to call you ignorant or anything, because it is understandable. I live in MD, where there is no DO school, and they are not as prevalent.
Then I shadowed a DO and I loved it. He did bring that "extra" compassion and concern for his patients, not saying that MD's don't, but he specifically told me that he feels DO training helped him be this type of doctor. Not to mention the manipulation stuff. But his patients LOVED him and they all raved to me about how he treated them. He is a spinal surgeon in a practice with about 5-6 other MDs, and doing very well. I loved my experience, have you ever had any with a DO?
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No worries I don't get offended easily
Please stop hitting on me. It makes me uncomfortable.
Thank you.
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An osteopathic school is a medical school.
Caribbean schools like St.George University, Ross University, AUC are good schools especilly the St.George University. I know people who finished all three of these schools and became successful MD's. In the end you take the same tests, pass the same boards, and earn the same license ad become a doctor. It doesn't matter if you went to the Caribbean, what matters are your scores and motivation. If you went to the Caribbean and did better than someone from Harvard MED you'll be taken over them. IT'S ALL UP TO YOU, NOT THE SCHOOL YOU ATTEND. There are S*** Caribbean schools, but the three I mentioned have produced excellent physicians. NO ONE IN THE FUTURE WILL CARE WHERE YOU WENT, IN THE REAL WORLD PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THE TYPE OF PERSON YOU ARE AND IF YOU CAN DO YOUR JOB WELL. SAME THING FOR D.O., IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR WORK ETHIC. I KNOW 2 D.O.'S A PLASTIC AND NEUROSURGEON. IT'S ALL UP TO YOU, HOW HARD YOU'RE WILLING TO WORK. ALSO, HAVING D.O. BEHIND YOUR NAME IS FINE, IN THE REAL WORLD NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE LETTERS BEHIND YOU'RE NAME. YOU'RE A DOCTOR, THAT'S IT!!!
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The history of PBL really started in medical schools. Allopathic and Osteopathic alike. The idea is spreading to undergraduate curriculum. There seems to be a real phobia with pbl, and the vast majority of the schools really use it as a supplement. Some just talk about it more than others. I'm sure you've gone into the allopathic/osteopathic message boards and noticed...most of them don't go to lectures unless they have to. I think if you realize you wont' go to lectures or are like me and don't learn enough relevant info to make it worth your while, then a PBL curriculum is actually pretty good...I hate admitting that too (I've had four years of PBL already). It is a way of applying the information you sat there memorizing for hours on end and actually make it worthwhile. Everyone is different, but part of the excitement with me is being able to integrate information I've learned on my own/in class with real world situations. I learned to read the basics of a chest xray the other day, and then I went in the ER and got to explain to the er doc why I thought it was CHF or pneumonia, or whatever.....very fulfilling in the end. Painful during it though.
Also, avoid Caribbean if you can.......just a lot of headaches. I have considered it if I don't get in first application cycle, but it is not preferable.
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it doesn't matter where you go to school. what matters is how you use the education and experience you recieved. don't be so caught up with those two little letters that will be after your name.
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To the OP. I used to be your shoe last year. If anyways you can improve GPA and MCAT,research, etc.. then go for it. You may be late, but years later, you will feel so much relief. I got accepted to 3 DO school last time and all 4 Caribbean Med schools. I retook MCAT, did more research and finally get into 2 MD so far.
Med school is a very long journey. Try to start with as much as comfortable you are. Personally, I will go DO if I have no options for MD school. I previously leaned toward SGU but if you think about a huge debt (280k) and uncertainty. Now, I'm doing research with a surgeon at GRMERC. He said preferences will be given first to US MD, then US DO, then True IMG, then US IMG. However, he also noted that Ross and SGU are solid school. If you want to be general practioner, then SGU or Ross are okay. I'm assuming you're good student, excellent students from SGU and Ross are exceptions just as exceptions everywhere else. Student from SGU warned me that pressure at SGU or Ross is extremely high.
In the end, as long as you pass all the board, you're a physician.
Med school is a very long journey. Try to start with as much as comfortable you are. Personally, I will go DO if I have no options for MD school. I previously leaned toward SGU but if you think about a huge debt (280k) and uncertainty. Now, I'm doing research with a surgeon at GRMERC. He said preferences will be given first to US MD, then US DO, then True IMG, then US IMG. However, he also noted that Ross and SGU are solid school. If you want to be general practioner, then SGU or Ross are okay. I'm assuming you're good student, excellent students from SGU and Ross are exceptions just as exceptions everywhere else. Student from SGU warned me that pressure at SGU or Ross is extremely high.
In the end, as long as you pass all the board, you're a physician.
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just to set a couple things straight...
first off, if u go to a DO school, u must take the COMLEX to graduate. you can also take the USMLE (which most students do), but the usmle is not required to get into all allopathic residencies. the comlex, on the other hand is required regardless of allo or osteo residency.
now, speaking from personal ongoing experience. i considered both SGU and DO since my gpa is on the lower end. i got into both and am waiting to hear from several US allo schools. i decided that if it comes down to it, i will go to the DO school over SGU, and i'll tell u why.
first off, i just learned about DOs in the past year. i could care less about OMM etc. i think it is interesting and i'd totally recommend pple to see a DO, but i have no interest in doing it myself. i also have no interest in family medicine. i've been in clinical research for nearly 3 yrs and want to be a PI someday w/my name on lots of papers. given all that, u might think my decision makes no sense. however, i will tell u 2 key things:
#1) every, and i mean EVERY doctor i asked (former boss, PCP, family friend MD, various MDs i meet at conferences, etc) has hands down said do DO over caribbean. not one exception to this. and keep in mind im from the northeast where the avg person has not heard of a DO
#2) one of my best friends goes to SGU, which is considered to be the best school in the caribbean, and would have done DO over SGU in a sec. obviously she wanted US allo and should have gotten in w/her stats. family pressure + expired MCAT forced her to make a decision (as opposed to reapplying). she was waitlisted at a US allo and osteo school and didnt get in and decided to go to SGU where she is rocking her classes. however, living there sucks. u have to share a bedroom your 1st yr there w/very little privacy. not much at all to do. classes and pple are cut-throat b/c it is a weeder school (same goes for Ross). pple steal, cheat, lie etc to get ahead b/c they know they have to do well to get into a decent US residency. many pple fail out (inluding one of her friends). oh, and its a fortune and u only get limited federal loans.
think long and hard about going to the caribbean for school. the last thing u want is to blow crazy money, be miserable, and not end up w/a decent residency or even your MD degree.
i personally believe everything happens for a reason and think my friend will do fine and i'll do fine. yes it may suck to take an extra class each week and sit for 2 boards exams w/in a weeks or so time and not have that MD after your name, but this suckiness pales in comparison to leaving the country and dealing w/neurotic students w/a chip on their shoulder and an eye looking over yours, and most importantly dealing w/huge hurdles landing a US residency...
first off, if u go to a DO school, u must take the COMLEX to graduate. you can also take the USMLE (which most students do), but the usmle is not required to get into all allopathic residencies. the comlex, on the other hand is required regardless of allo or osteo residency.
now, speaking from personal ongoing experience. i considered both SGU and DO since my gpa is on the lower end. i got into both and am waiting to hear from several US allo schools. i decided that if it comes down to it, i will go to the DO school over SGU, and i'll tell u why.
first off, i just learned about DOs in the past year. i could care less about OMM etc. i think it is interesting and i'd totally recommend pple to see a DO, but i have no interest in doing it myself. i also have no interest in family medicine. i've been in clinical research for nearly 3 yrs and want to be a PI someday w/my name on lots of papers. given all that, u might think my decision makes no sense. however, i will tell u 2 key things:
#1) every, and i mean EVERY doctor i asked (former boss, PCP, family friend MD, various MDs i meet at conferences, etc) has hands down said do DO over caribbean. not one exception to this. and keep in mind im from the northeast where the avg person has not heard of a DO
#2) one of my best friends goes to SGU, which is considered to be the best school in the caribbean, and would have done DO over SGU in a sec. obviously she wanted US allo and should have gotten in w/her stats. family pressure + expired MCAT forced her to make a decision (as opposed to reapplying). she was waitlisted at a US allo and osteo school and didnt get in and decided to go to SGU where she is rocking her classes. however, living there sucks. u have to share a bedroom your 1st yr there w/very little privacy. not much at all to do. classes and pple are cut-throat b/c it is a weeder school (same goes for Ross). pple steal, cheat, lie etc to get ahead b/c they know they have to do well to get into a decent US residency. many pple fail out (inluding one of her friends). oh, and its a fortune and u only get limited federal loans.
think long and hard about going to the caribbean for school. the last thing u want is to blow crazy money, be miserable, and not end up w/a decent residency or even your MD degree.
i personally believe everything happens for a reason and think my friend will do fine and i'll do fine. yes it may suck to take an extra class each week and sit for 2 boards exams w/in a weeks or so time and not have that MD after your name, but this suckiness pales in comparison to leaving the country and dealing w/neurotic students w/a chip on their shoulder and an eye looking over yours, and most importantly dealing w/huge hurdles landing a US residency...
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I just figured out what you were saying. I was going to point out that an optometry degree is an OD, not a DO.
Don't mind me - I have issues
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Has anyone thought about the new DO schools and increase of seats in allopathic schools? I think that will reduce the US residency spots significantly in near future. Hence, it is much wiser to go to a DO school instead of a Caribbean school.
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My thoughts (please forgive me when I use bold letters, it really p*sses me off too)
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO REALIZE: THE PROFESSORS AT CARRIBEAN SCHOOLS ARE THERE FOR THE SAME REASONS THE STUDENTS ARE! AT LEAST AT OSTEOPATHIC SCHOOLS YOU WILL HAVE INTELEGENT, RESPECTED PHYSICIANS AND PROFESSORS TEACHING YOU
Not all osteopathic school have a primary care focus; maybe a better way to phrase this is that some osteopathic schools, such as CCOM-AZ, MSU, etc, focus entirely on primary care, while PCOM, UMDNJ, CCOM, etc, do have a focus on primary care, most of their students specialize.
Is it possible to specialize with a DO? Yes. There are DO residencies in plastics, urology, derm, etc, granted there might not be as many as allopathic residencies, but then again there are fewer osteopathic doctors than there are allopathic. You have a better chance getting into a derm residency as a DO by doing the DO match, than as a foreign student trying to match into an allopathic derm program.
The number of osteopathic schools has exploded in the last few years to meet the growing physician shortage in the US. As a result, osteopathic physicians will begin to become even more common in the medical field in the coming years. Also, one reason why there are so many allopathic doctors, besides the obvious fact that there are more allopathic than osteopathic medical colleges, is that the US has been dependent on many foreign doctors (all of whom are of course MD's) to fill positions. Therefore, as the number of osteopathic doctors surges while the number of allopathic physicians remains stagnant, the number of foreign allopathic doctors immigrating to the US will decrease (this is debatable), resulting in osteopathic doctors making up a greater percentage of the work force.
Finally, what do two letters really mean? Very, very few people know the difference between an MD and a DO, and I can bet even fewer really care. Most people see doctors that family members or coworkers recommend, or they see physicians they were recommended to by their primary care doctor. Out of all the things a patient has to worry about, whether the doctor is an allopathic or osteopathic doctor is probably near the bottom of their list. To reiterate the words of several earlier posters, you do not have to win the respect of your patients, otherwise they would not be seeing you, but you have to win the respect of your colleagues. Your colleagues will know if you went to Johns Hopkins or PCOM of University Del Caribe. You might be able to hide behind the MD with your patients, but your coworkers will know you went to a Caribbean school.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO REALIZE: THE PROFESSORS AT CARRIBEAN SCHOOLS ARE THERE FOR THE SAME REASONS THE STUDENTS ARE! AT LEAST AT OSTEOPATHIC SCHOOLS YOU WILL HAVE INTELEGENT, RESPECTED PHYSICIANS AND PROFESSORS TEACHING YOU
Not all osteopathic school have a primary care focus; maybe a better way to phrase this is that some osteopathic schools, such as CCOM-AZ, MSU, etc, focus entirely on primary care, while PCOM, UMDNJ, CCOM, etc, do have a focus on primary care, most of their students specialize.
Is it possible to specialize with a DO? Yes. There are DO residencies in plastics, urology, derm, etc, granted there might not be as many as allopathic residencies, but then again there are fewer osteopathic doctors than there are allopathic. You have a better chance getting into a derm residency as a DO by doing the DO match, than as a foreign student trying to match into an allopathic derm program.
The number of osteopathic schools has exploded in the last few years to meet the growing physician shortage in the US. As a result, osteopathic physicians will begin to become even more common in the medical field in the coming years. Also, one reason why there are so many allopathic doctors, besides the obvious fact that there are more allopathic than osteopathic medical colleges, is that the US has been dependent on many foreign doctors (all of whom are of course MD's) to fill positions. Therefore, as the number of osteopathic doctors surges while the number of allopathic physicians remains stagnant, the number of foreign allopathic doctors immigrating to the US will decrease (this is debatable), resulting in osteopathic doctors making up a greater percentage of the work force.
Finally, what do two letters really mean? Very, very few people know the difference between an MD and a DO, and I can bet even fewer really care. Most people see doctors that family members or coworkers recommend, or they see physicians they were recommended to by their primary care doctor. Out of all the things a patient has to worry about, whether the doctor is an allopathic or osteopathic doctor is probably near the bottom of their list. To reiterate the words of several earlier posters, you do not have to win the respect of your patients, otherwise they would not be seeing you, but you have to win the respect of your colleagues. Your colleagues will know if you went to Johns Hopkins or PCOM of University Del Caribe. You might be able to hide behind the MD with your patients, but your coworkers will know you went to a Caribbean school.
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Generally speaking, nobody knows where you went to medical school unless you volunteer the information. When you match, your program knows but if graduating from a Carribean medical school was a problem they wouldn't have ranked you, kapisch?
I know lot's of guys from Carribean schools in Emergency Medicine, a somewhat competative specialty, including two at Duke so obviously it's not as big a stigma as you think. Everybody knows that the first two years of medical school, aside from the empathy fluff, are mostly self-study anyways so it makes no difference if you study in the library at Harvard or the beaches of Grenada. Carribean medical students do most of their rotations in the states, I understand, so not only do they get a wide exposure to Amercian medicine but in the end, it just doesn't matter.
I think the DO degree carries a definite stigma even though it is completely irrational. As has been pointed out, DOs have every specialty from Neurosurgery to PM&R and there is no appreciable difference. I'd say an American Carribean graduate with good USMLE scores has a better chance of a good allopathic match than a DO with equal USMLE scores. Just my opinion.
