Caribbean this year or try to get into US medical school next year?

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roastbeeef85

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Overall GPA 3.3 :cool:
Science GPA 3.0 :(
MCAT: 26, 27 :mad:
Research experience
Lots of extra curricular activities
Clinical experience at the ER

I have not applied to any US medical schools yet because of my low MCAT scores and low GPA. I graduated in May '07, but after retaking the MCAT with a dismal 27 (P9, V6, B12) I decided not to apply to the US schools. As you can see, my weakness is in verbal. I have been trying to read more in websites such as Economists, WSJ, NYT, etc. Not sure if that'll help me improve my score for Verbal. Also, this will be the third time I will be taking the MCAT exam, which looks incredibly bad.

My question is should I even wait another year and retake the MCAT in hopes of getting mid 30's to apply to US medical school? Or should I just apply to the BIG 4 schools in the Caribbean now and enter Fall of this year? BTW, I am 23 turning 24 this September if that helps.

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You're still young. There should be no rush when it comes to medical school and a lifelong career that follows it.

In other words, take courses to help you with the verbal section and then bring it up.

Depending on your state, you could have a good chance go to a US school.

The Carib will always be there.
 
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I'm going to be blunt, but not to be rude.

Unless you're an underrepresented majority, or from a state with very low standards, or have some serious connections to pull some strings, with your GPA you will NOT get into a US school. I know quite a few people with similar GPA's and mid-30 MCAT's who didn't even get interview invites. Things are simply too competitive these days and there are too many 3.5+, 30+ candidates still standing as marginal candidates for you to get a look.

What's more, with your current stats, you're not at all guaranteed to get into some of the big 4 in the Caribbean.

Don't despair, as has been mentioned, you're young, and there are so many people out there starting med school in their late 20s that there's really no reason to panic. Go back to school, get a masters and do it with an impressive GPA. Retake the MCAT's after that and 2 cycles from now you could very well be sitting pretty.
 
I'm curious why it would be so bad to go to sgu now, instead of waiting years to (maybe) go to a US school. I'm asking because I really don't know.

Could one go to SGU graduate and then do well in residency and some how through experience make up the difference?

What about doctors who are actually from foreign countries who have good positions?
 
if a person puts down the deposit for SGU while waiting to hear from US med school programs....does SGU notify other schools that the student has made his/her choice?
 
if a person puts down the deposit for SGU while waiting to hear from US med school programs....does SGU notify other schools that the student has made his/her choice?

No, they don't.
 
I am strong believer that the medical school you go to (unles it's absolute crap, or totally not accepted by any association) is of no importance. If you can get into SGU, TAKE IT, if you are SERIOUS and determined to become a doctor, and you will STUDY hard...yes it will be harder than at a US school!!! BUT IT WILL BE!!!! And that's all my heart desires!!! I am tired of being a pramedic and not being able to PROPERLY help someone; or being a crisis specialist on the sexual assault help line but have to censor myself because I am not certified!!!! I am tired to hold myself back from what seems like such a natural reaction for my body and mind!!!!I WILL be going to medical school this year!!! NO MATTER WHO accepts me!!!
 
i have to agree with dtwalrus. US med schools are highly competitive. and unless you are an underrepresented miniority, you have a very slim chance if any at all of getting into medical schools in US. you are young, im around your age, 22. We are young but we want to not waste any more time then we may have already(if thats how you feel, i understand you on this one). if American school is your dream, you should do a masters program , ie, MPH and apply again after a year. In Jersey, UMDNJ has a program where you do your masters for like a year or 2 then you are pretty much guaranteed admission into MD program afterwards, assuming you do well.


The other option you have, which is also a great opt to consider before you do consider caribbean schools, is DO program in the US. have you tried loooking into that? with your stats you could get into a DO program.

But if you are worried about titles, and want to get MD, and If you are open to the idea of going to a Caribbean school, that would be a great option for you to consider. that way , you dont have to waste any more time, and you have a good shot at getting into one of the big 4(top schools) with your stats(tho ur verbal is quite weak...), if not you will DEF get into the 2nd tier schools which are also very good like AUA and MUA as long as you arent worried abt CA approval(these schools have not yet applied for CA approval, they may b in the process tho).

hope this helped. good luck!
 
I am strong believer that the medical school you go to (unles it's absolute crap, or totally not accepted by any association) is of no importance. If you can get into SGU, TAKE IT, if you are SERIOUS and determined to become a doctor, and you will STUDY hard...yes it will be harder than at a US school!!! BUT IT WILL BE!!!! And that's all my heart desires!!! I am tired of being a pramedic and not being able to PROPERLY help someone; or being a crisis specialist on the sexual assault help line but have to censor myself because I am not certified!!!! I am tired to hold myself back from what seems like such a natural reaction for my body and mind!!!!I WILL be going to medical school this year!!! NO MATTER WHO accepts me!!!

You're from Montreal?
 
You're from Montreal?

Yup..... 2x McGill Alumni already (B.Sc. Nutrition; M.Sc. Food Science; currently doing a Diploma in Health Care Management which I don"t care to finishCheers!
 
I am strong believer that the medical school you go to (unles it's absolute crap, or totally not accepted by any association) is of no importance. If you can get into SGU, TAKE IT, if you are SERIOUS and determined to become a doctor, and you will STUDY hard...yes it will be harder than at a US school!!! BUT IT WILL BE!!!! And that's all my heart desires!!! I am tired of being a pramedic and not being able to PROPERLY help someone; or being a crisis specialist on the sexual assault help line but have to censor myself because I am not certified!!!! I am tired to hold myself back from what seems like such a natural reaction for my body and mind!!!!I WILL be going to medical school this year!!! NO MATTER WHO accepts me!!!

Jesus.

Go man, go.
 
Jesus.
Go man, go.

:D....I felt sooo passionate there!!! Maybe I should use this passion and even the same words in my interviews this month :p

:xf::xf::xf::xf::xf::xf::xf::xf:
 
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:D....I felt sooo passionate there!!! Maybe I should use this passion and even the same words in my interviews this month :p

:xf::xf::xf::xf::xf::xf::xf::xf:

I'm sure you'll make your dream come true.

Best of luck!
 
Sorry if this sounds like spam. Why are Caribbeans degrees bad comparing to american ones? it is harder for the doctor's to find a job? or do people just look down at the other person?
 
Sorry if this sounds like spam. Why are Caribbeans degrees bad comparing to american ones? it is harder for the doctor's to find a job? or do people just look down at the other person?

It is harder for their graduates to find residencies in the US that will take them. This is because the Caribbean schools are not accredited in the USA and are not inspected and not required to follow the same curriculum, etc. as schools inside the US that are accredited by the Americation Association of Medical Colleges. Residency programs prefer the US students because they fell they are getting a "known quantity". They know what minimum training the student had to do to successfully graduate, and they know the admissions standards of the US medical schools. A good number of schools in the Caribbean take students who have much lower GPA and MCAT scores than the average for US schools, and/or they will take students who have been in some sort of trouble in the past (like failed out of a US medical school). Therefore, residency programs may have some nervousness about taking a Caribbean graduate, because the thought is that this person (for whatever reason) was down there because they couldn't get into a US school. Some of the Caribbean schools are a bit dodgy too, and don't have good facilities and perhaps deficient teaching and clinical rotations, as it's expensive and time consuming to set up good clinical training for a bunch of 3rd and 4th year med students.

That said, a student who does very well at a Caribbean schools, and average or better on the US medical licensing exam (that is also required for all med students in US schools to take and pass) and perhaps does a visiting rotation or two at a particular US hospital, might be favorably considered by a number of US residencies. However, the vast majority of Caribbean med students wouldn't really have much of a shot at residencies at "famous" US hospitals like Harvard, Stanford, etc., or at getting into the specialties that are really hard to get into (dermatology, plastic surgery, etc.) simply because there are so many high scoring, top-of-their-class US medical students vying for the same thing.

As far as "getting a job" after residency, I don't think being from a Caribbean school will be much of an issue if the person did well in residency, etc. Most patients are clueless about the whole process of med school or where their doc went to school, and most other doctors will respect you if you are competent. It can make it harder (or in some cases impossible, depending on which Caribbean school the student attended) to get a license to practice medicine in some states, but usually there is just a little more paperwork to fill out.
 
Overall GPA 3.3 :cool:
Science GPA 3.0 :(
MCAT: 26, 27 :mad:
Research experience
Lots of extra curricular activities
Clinical experience at the ER

I have not applied to any US medical schools yet because of my low MCAT scores and low GPA. I graduated in May '07, but after retaking the MCAT with a dismal 27 (P9, V6, B12) I decided not to apply to the US schools. As you can see, my weakness is in verbal. I have been trying to read more in websites such as Economists, WSJ, NYT, etc. Not sure if that'll help me improve my score for Verbal. Also, this will be the third time I will be taking the MCAT exam, which looks incredibly bad.

My question is should I even wait another year and retake the MCAT in hopes of getting mid 30's to apply to US medical school? Or should I just apply to the BIG 4 schools in the Caribbean now and enter Fall of this year? BTW, I am 23 turning 24 this September if that helps.


OP I would definitely retake the MCAT. I had similar stats as you, and no I am NOT an underpresented minority, far from it. My MCAT was in the mid 30s and I received several interview this cycle including from my state schools (california). So all hope is not lost with your GPA, but you have to work hard to fix everything else that can still be fixed in your application (ie MCAT, ECs, personal statement, etc).
 
Overall GPA 3.3 :cool:
Science GPA 3.0 :(
MCAT: 26, 27 :mad:
Research experience
Lots of extra curricular activities
Clinical experience at the ER

I have not applied to any US medical schools yet because of my low MCAT scores and low GPA. I graduated in May '07, but after retaking the MCAT with a dismal 27 (P9, V6, B12) I decided not to apply to the US schools. As you can see, my weakness is in verbal. I have been trying to read more in websites such as Economists, WSJ, NYT, etc. Not sure if that'll help me improve my score for Verbal. Also, this will be the third time I will be taking the MCAT exam, which looks incredibly bad.

My question is should I even wait another year and retake the MCAT in hopes of getting mid 30's to apply to US medical school? Or should I just apply to the BIG 4 schools in the Caribbean now and enter Fall of this year? BTW, I am 23 turning 24 this September if that helps.


My stats are similar to yours, but mine are "flip-flopped". My MCAT is a 32 and GPA at a 2.8. Your stats combined are probably better than mine though, because i would rather have .5 GPA points than 5 MCAT points.

I would look DO schools if i was you. Your GPA is about .1-.2 points below most DO school averages, but your MCAT is 1-2 points higher than most of their averages.

If not that, then maybe a masters program for a year or two.
 
Overall GPA 3.3 :cool:
Science GPA 3.0 :(
MCAT: 26, 27 :mad:
Research experience
Lots of extra curricular activities
Clinical experience at the ER

I have not applied to any US medical schools yet because of my low MCAT scores and low GPA. I graduated in May '07, but after retaking the MCAT with a dismal 27 (P9, V6, B12) I decided not to apply to the US schools. As you can see, my weakness is in verbal. I have been trying to read more in websites such as Economists, WSJ, NYT, etc. Not sure if that'll help me improve my score for Verbal. Also, this will be the third time I will be taking the MCAT exam, which looks incredibly bad.

My question is should I even wait another year and retake the MCAT in hopes of getting mid 30's to apply to US medical school? Or should I just apply to the BIG 4 schools in the Caribbean now and enter Fall of this year? BTW, I am 23 turning 24 this September if that helps.

See if you can get into Tel Aviv University in Israel this year. If it's too late, you could apply there as a backup for next year also. I think Israel is a much better option than Caribbean (much cheaper, 60 people classes, better clinicals and match lists, real university program, and the cultural experience)... Island living is hard. Med school in the Carib is not a Caribbean vacation by any stretch of the imagination.

SGU and Ross both take about 800-1000 students each per year. That to me is just a bit ridiculous and seems too "for profit" for my tastes.

Another problem with the Caribbean is that even if you go to a more reputable one, there are dozens more shady Caribbean schools that will always drag down the reputation of all Caribbean schools.
 
Why would he get a second rate foreign education in Israel when he can get a US-style education at AUC/Ross/SGU/Saba?

Unless he wants to live in a few select cities in the US, the Hebrew he will need to speak in clinicals will be useless and the education is not up to US standards.

The only education in the world that considered equal to the US is Canadian medical education.

There's no point of handicapping himself (or getting blown up by some crazy people) in Israel when the Carib is the best alternative.

See if you can get into Tel Aviv University in Israel this year. If it's too late, you could apply there as a backup for next year also. I think Israel is a much better option than Caribbean (much cheaper, 60 people classes, better clinicals and match lists, real university program, and the cultural experience)... Island living is hard. Med school in the Carib is not a Caribbean vacation by any stretch of the imagination.

SGU and Ross both take about 800-1000 students each per year. That to me is just a bit ridiculous and seems too "for profit" for my tastes.

Another problem with the Caribbean is that even if you go to a more reputable one, there are dozens more shady Caribbean schools that will always drag down the reputation of all Caribbean schools.
 
Why woulfd he get a second rate foreign education in Israel when he can get a US-style education at AUC/Ross/SGU/Saba?

Unless he wants to live in a few select cities in the US, the Hebrew he will need to speak in clinicals will be useless and the education is not up to US standards.

The only education in the world that considered equal to the US is Canadian medical education.

There's no point of handicapping himself (or getting blown up by some crazy people) in Israel when the Carib is the best alternative.


I know you know your stuff as far as FMG choices, so I thought I would ask how does that queens land program compare to SGU.
 
See if you can get into Tel Aviv University in Israel this year. If it's too late, you could apply there as a backup for next year also. I think Israel is a much better option than Caribbean (much cheaper, 60 people classes, better clinicals and match lists, real university program, and the cultural experience)... Island living is hard. Med school in the Carib is not a Caribbean vacation by any stretch of the imagination.

SGU and Ross both take about 800-1000 students each per year. That to me is just a bit ridiculous and seems too "for profit" for my tastes.

Another problem with the Caribbean is that even if you go to a more reputable one, there are dozens more shady Caribbean schools that will always drag down the reputation of all Caribbean schools.


yeah living in Israel is easy.. I have family there and they have government issued gas masks and bomb shelters in their buildings. Armed military personal constantly on the look out at public places like malls or bus stations. not to mention the ever so often missile raid from one of their neighbors, or a suicide bomber. Plus even though some speak english it will really help a lot to learn hebrew, and who has time to learn a different language when you're already trying to learn a different language called medicine. Also I feel like doing your cores and electives in the states is much better than just doing your electives here. and their match list has some good hospital names on it but the don't list what specialty that match was for, for all we know it could have been family med or psych. I think SGU's ROSS's match lists are more impressive than than Israeli school lists. they'll be very smart people (outliers) at any school who get Ortho, Optho, Derm, or Neurosurg, that has nothing to do with how good the school is, it has everything to do with how smart and hardworking those students are.

So I guess at the end it's your choice be scared for your life that you might be the next victim of a car bomb or live on a tropical island with no MacDonald's.
 
I think he meant to say in the eyes of US program directors. because Candian schools are considered part of the LCME. To US PDs it's US/Canada and everyone else is an IMG/FMG.

And that I do agree with.
 
Why would he get a second rate foreign education in Israel when he can get a US-style education at AUC/Ross/SGU/Saba?

Unless he wants to live in a few select cities in the US, the Hebrew he will need to speak in clinicals will be useless and the education is not up to US standards.

The only education in the world that considered equal to the US is Canadian medical education.

There's no point of handicapping himself (or getting blown up by some crazy people) in Israel when the Carib is the best alternative.
I'm not even going to dignify your conceited ignorance with a rebuttal. Smart people can do their own research and figure out your idiocy. You clearly feel your Caribbean education with US community hospital core rotations is superior to Cambridge. So best of luck to you!!
 
I'm not even going to dignify your conceited ignorance with a rebuttal. Smart people can do their own research and figure out your idiocy. You clearly feel your Caribbean education with US community hospital core rotations is superior to Cambridge. So best of luck to you!!

I have news for you. It is superior if your final goal is to practice medicine in the US. those cambridge grads who want to practice in the US are lining up and begging to do Observerships (you can only look and you can't touch) in order to get US clinical experience so that they can put that down on their CV to help them apply to US residencies. Now if you're just talking about education as a whole then of course cambridge is better, but i can guarantee they'll have a harder time getting a residency than a US citizen who is an average student or slightly above average coming out of SGU, ROSS AUC, or SABA. To US Program Directors, US experience and being familiar with the US health care system means a lot. not to mention the fact that they're lazy and don't want to fill out the paper work needed to grant visas.
 
I know you know your stuff as far as FMG choices, so I thought I would ask how does that queens land program compare to SGU.

The Ozzie programs are great, but they are not geared towards the USMLE so you have to make sure you study on your own with USMLE material.
 
I'm not even going to dignify your conceited ignorance with a rebuttal. Smart people can do their own research and figure out your idiocy. You clearly feel your Caribbean education with US community hospital core rotations is superior to Cambridge. So best of luck to you!!

When did Cambridge enter the discussion? And yes, for the US, Carib med schools prepare you better for the USMLE because that is their only purpose. Unlike Israeli and UK med schools who are there to create Israeli and UK doctors, not American doctors.

Nice attempt at a strawman argument, though. Did they have a strawman class in Tel Aviv university, too?
 
I have news for you. It is superior if your final goal is to practice medicine in the US. those cambridge grads who want to practice in the US are lining up and begging to do Observerships (you can only look and you can't touch) in order to get US clinical experience so that they can put that down on their CV to help them apply to US residencies. Now if you're just talking about education as a whole then of course cambridge is better, but i can guarantee they'll have a harder time getting a residency than a US citizen who is an average student or slightly above average coming out of SGU, ROSS AUC, or SABA. To US Program Directors, US experience and being familiar with the US health care system means a lot. not to mention the fact that they're lazy and don't want to fill out the paper work needed to grant visas.
The education is better, period. The Cambridge grads you talk about face difficulties because of visas (H1-B), which would not apply to the OP. My intention was to give the OP some other options (and IMO, more attractive ones) outside of the Caribbean. SGU isn't cheap; it's more expensive than most American private medical schools, and more than twice as expensive as the Tel Aviv school I mentioned above. SGU also has very, very, very large class sizes (400 per term --> 800 per year). The match list that SGU posts, however, is roughly half the size of the large classes at matriculation. What happened to the rest? Are you telling me the rest all prematched? Give me a break. The quality of core rotations in the US available to SGU students also vary greatly and most students don't have much choice as to where they are placed. These are realities. Going to the school in Israel doesn't stop you from getting elective rotations during your fourth year (in fact everyone does this). And you can actually do research in Israel!

While getting into residency is the important goal, so is getting a rounded education (which includes opportunities for research). And proportional to class size, the Tel Aviv school (which has a class size of 60-70) has far, far better residency placements than SGU and the other Caribbean schools.

SGU and other Caribbean schools are a viable option, but there are other alternatives still. Yes, Israel has security problems, but the Caribbean also has hurricane problems. Both are at the will of God so to speak.
 
The Ozzie programs are great, but they are not geared towards the USMLE so you have to make sure you study on your own with USMLE material.
Oh so now "Ozzie programs are great," but Israel is "second-rate," "handicapped" and inferior to the Caribbean because it's "not a US or Canadian medical school." Cognitive dissonance, a little? Did you get rejected from Sackler or something? or do you just hate Israel?

The medical schools in Israel are every bit as legit as the schools in Australia (plus the Sackler curriculum is modeled closely after leading US schools, uses American textbooks and is in fact systems-based). That you bash one and not the other reflects your own personal bias that is completely removed from the individual merits of the school.

Edit: Anyway, for the OP, it's really how and what you do at the medical school you go to that makes the most difference. Figure out why your GPA was mediocre in college and don't repeat it for medical school. Any foreign school would present extra challenges, but some might be more palatable than others depending on your own tastes, drive and background. If you don't get into a US school, your choices certainly aren't just limited to the Caribbean or bust.
 
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The education is better, period. The Cambridge grads you talk about face difficulties because of visas (H1-B), which would not apply to the OP. My intention was to give the OP some other options (and IMO, more attractive ones) outside of the Caribbean. SGU isn't cheap; it's more expensive than most American private medical schools, and more than twice as expensive as the Tel Aviv school I mentioned above. SGU also has very, very, very large class sizes (400 per term --> 800 per year). The match list that SGU posts, however, is roughly half the size of the large classes at matriculation. What happened to the rest? Are you telling me the rest all prematched? Give me a break. The quality of core rotations in the US available to SGU students also vary greatly and most students don't have much choice as to where they are placed. These are realities. Going to the school in Israel doesn't stop you from getting elective rotations during your fourth year (in fact everyone does this). And you can actually do research in Israel!

While getting into residency is the important goal, so is getting a rounded education (which includes opportunities for research). And proportional to class size, the Tel Aviv school (which has a class size of 60-70) has far, far better residency placements than SGU and the other Caribbean schools.

SGU and other Caribbean schools are a viable option, but there are other alternatives still. Yes, Israel has security problems, but the Caribbean also has hurricane problems. Both are at the will of God so to speak.

Well the OP wouldn't get into cambridge anyway so giving him that option is irrelevant.
As for SGU their graduating class sizes aren't 400/semester just yet. I just started my 4th year and my term size is 309 and it's going to stay at the 300 level for another year or so at least. also I posted an email we got from our dean (on another thread about official mathc lists) and it said that we match at a rate of 74% which is considerably higher than the 48% match rate for all IMGs/FMGs put together (NBME data). a good number prematch and a good number scramble as well, many also go back to their home countries, SGU is an international school and we have students from Great Britain, African, the Caribbean and Asia, so those go back to their home countries. Sure some don't match, those are the ones that didn't plan ahead, aimed too high with no back up plans or just weren't good enough (failed the steps or something else). Some US students don't match either, isn't that a shocker.


As for clinical sites we have many sites where we rotate with Cornell and Columbia med students in NYC, and UMDNJ students in NJ. And you're wrong because we do get to pick where we want to go. at the end of our second year we pick top 3 choices of the hospitals we want to go to and 95% get one of their top 2 choices. We have those hospital representatives come down to the island once a year and talk to us about their hospitals and what they have to offer, so we get informed. Research is not as big of deal to residencies unless you're going for super competitive spots residencies like Ortho or you want to go to a good university program even still i know plenty of people who matched at university programs from SGU and had no reserach. Also doing just your electives or doing both cores and electives which do you think is better?

Getting a residency is the only goal, if you want to practice medicine in the US. I would much rather not have a "rounded" education and match at the residency of my choice than to have a rounded education but end up with out a residency, you than can do you know what with that rounded education.

Also it's impossible to say how good the match list of Israel schools because they don't post the specialties, and they don't even post the year by year. they just list the hospitals where they have residents, for all we know there has only been one resident at that hospital and that was like 10 years ago or more. if SGU or ROSS did that you'd see peopel going to Harvard Mass General for Radiation Oncology, Stanford for anesthesia (this year's match at SGU) Dartmouth, and many many other amazing programs, but we don't we list our programs by year, with specialties and full names included, SGU doesn't keep things hidden.

here all it says is residency appointments by state, doesn't give the year that they went, nor the specialty. I bet this is a list for their entire history from day one.

http://medicine.tau.ac.il/english/index.php/ny/alumni


and lastly i'll give you the whole hurricane vs. terrorist bomber thing. i gues that's a 50/50.
 
cariculum doesn't matter as much in med school you do most of learning on your own anyway. it's all about who can get you into the best residency or give you the best options for connections so that you can get into the best residency. and thus far i think that carib schools because they have 3rd and 4th year rotations in US hospitals next to US students, give IMGs the best bet. the reason US PDs don't like img's/fmgs is because it's so hard to compare us to US grads, they have no clue what goes on in the foreign countries as far as education nor do they care. That's why Step1 is so important they can compare us to US students with it and they do, same with step2. Also they have a chance to compare us to US students when we do our rotations in the US next to US med students. A lot of them will write performed better than the US counter part on the LORs and that means a lot in the eyes of the US PD because in their eyes no country can compaire to the education that US and Canadian MDs get, that's why they label everyone else FMGs.
 
Also it's impossible to say how good the match list of Israel schools because they don't post the specialties, and they don't even post the year by year. they just list the hospitals where they have residents, for all we know there has only been one resident at that hospital and that was like 10 years ago or more. if SGU or ROSS did that you'd see peopel going to Harvard Mass General for Radiation Oncology, Stanford for anesthesia (this year's match at SGU) Dartmouth, and many many other amazing programs, but we don't we list our programs by year, with specialties and full names included, SGU doesn't keep things hidden.

here all it says is residency appointments by state, doesn't give the year that they went, nor the specialty. I bet this is a list for their entire history from day one.

http://medicine.tau.ac.il/english/index.php/ny/alumni


and lastly i'll give you the whole hurricane vs. terrorist bomber thing. i gues that's a 50/50.

Here's the Sackler match list for 2007 (everyone matched that year, a few prematched and a few scrambled, there were actually 2 optho's that year).
5585d1177345393-sackler-class-2007-match-list-match.jpg


For 2009, they had one categorical general surgery match to University of Chicago, one to Brown, and a few other community programs. It's what you do in medical school that truly matters, the opportunities you take.

The match list is certainly nothing to write home about (it's no Mt. Sinai SOM), but for such a small class, it's not bad by any means and comparable to lower tiered US schools (SIU, UIC, RFU, Northeast Ohio, EVMS etc). And it's better than many DO schools. And they all did their core rotations in Israel.
 
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look honestly if you're a smart guy a hard worker and don't need a visa it really doesn't matter where you go. the text books are the same in every school the usmle is the same for everyone and you study on your own for the most part. everything else is a little perk. I know a guy how's doing very well and he went to med school in asia, and i know a guy who didn't match from a US school. Some places will just give you a slightely better edge or make it a little easier for you.

but for the average joe like myself i need all the extra help i can get, doing an extra year of clinicals gave me that much more time to become friendly with program directors, at a lot of places i'll be there not only for my 3 month core rotation but also for 1 month elective and they'll know me really well and be able to write me an amazing letter and possibly even call program directors on my behalf, I know a few SGU students that had that done so it's not an uncommon thing. Also our alumni population is over 5,000, a lot of these docs are program directors or attendings at hospitals with residency programs do you think they don't prefer graduates of their alma mater over someone else if they're equvivalant? we're only humans we favor what we know, and so are program directors. That and I am doing all my clinicals at a hospital that's 3miles from my home, and let me tell you living at home for 2 years is great, not only am I saving over 1,000 a month on rent, but also i have dinner waiting for me when i get home and mom will even do my ironing for me. That's why I picked SGU I think it would give me a slightly better edge. I love israel i think it's a beautiful country and have lots of family there so it wouldn't be that hard to get settled but i thoght i would have a better oppertunity at SGU. At the end we're all still IMGs/FMGs and in the eyes of pd's nobodies.

ohh and class sizes never bothered me because i never went to class, not in undergrad not in med school.
 
why isn't this list up on their website then?
Are you doubting the veracity of the list? You can go to the program's websites and find them for those that publicize them. But the list is very real. I don't know why they don't publish a list on their site, but you are generally given a list when you interview.

For instance, the Emory EM resident is in the Class of 2010:
http://www.em.emory.edu/residents.cfm

Search for "Sackler"
 
Are you doubting the veracity of the list? You can go to the program's websites and find them for those that publicize them. But the list is very real. I don't know why they don't publish a list on their site, but you are generally given a list when you interview.

For instance, the Emory EM resident is in the Class of 2010:
http://www.em.emory.edu/residents.cfm

Search for "Sackler"

no i am not. i know a guy from sackler who's doing rads in mount saini, i am just wondering why they made it so hard to see where their residents are going. and the list they have on their website is so shady.
 
Oh so now "Ozzie programs are great," but Israel is "second-rate," "handicapped" and inferior to the Caribbean because it's "not a US or Canadian medical school." Cognitive dissonance, a little? Did you get rejected from Sackler or something? or do you just hate Israel?

Listen, I don't have anything against you Arabians and your schools, but it isn't western standards and pretending like you are is just plain ignorant.

FMG=FMG to American PDs. But an US citizen from a top carib school that only focuses on the USMLE is superior to any foreign program....even Arabian ones like the ones in Israel.
 
Listen, I don't have anything against you Arabians and your schools, but it isn't western standards and pretending like you are is just plain ignorant.

FMG=FMG to American PDs. But an US citizen from a top carib school that only focuses on the USMLE is superior to any foreign program....even Arabian ones like the ones in Israel.

be careful Aladdin and Ali Baba and the 40 thieves might get upset.
 
RussianJoo said:
no i am not. i know a guy from sackler who's doing rads in mount saini, i am just wondering why they made it so hard to see where their residents are going. and the list they have on their website is so shady.
I don't know, that website hasn't been updated in awhile. They need to just redo the entire website, take it into the 21st century (who uses frames still on a website?). Their match list is nothing to be ashamed of though and pretty comparable to a lot of the medium to lower-tier New York medical schools.
 
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Listen, I don't have anything against you Arabians and your schools, but it isn't western standards and pretending like you are is just plain ignorant.

FMG=FMG to American PDs. But an US citizen from a top carib school that only focuses on the USMLE is superior to any foreign program....even Arabian ones like the ones in Israel.
Get your head out of your ass.
 
Part of this may depend on where you want to do residency and end up practicing. Being from the South/Midwest, I had never even heard of Israeli medical school until residency, when I met someone who went to Sackler and was a prelim surgery resident. I was aware of Caribbean med schools and had heard of Ross and SGU.

The posted match list from the Israeli school above is at least as good as the St. George one. Probably a little better...really they are comparable.

I think the Israeli programs have good recognition in the New York area, and lots of students who are from the NYC area. Of course, this seems to be true of St. George as well. St. George seems to have more matches throughout the country (and perhaps California?).

I think a US citizen who goes to either a solid Israeli school or St. George and does fine on the USMLE is going to get a residency of some kind in the US, unless something changes a lot in the next couple years with residency competitiveness. There are going to be more students graduating from US schools in future years, but probably will take several years for that to affect the Match a lot...

In the situation of the OP, I'd consider Caribbean, Israeli and DO schools. For someone who isn't too good w/standardized tests, DO may be a safer route as they have their own residencies and it would be hard to graduate from a DO school and get NO residency. You can definitely graduate from a foreign school and get NO residency, if anything bad happens during your education (fail USMLE exam, failed a class or clinical rotation, just didn't get good letters of recommendation, etc.).
 
The posted match list from the Israeli school above is at least as good as the St. George one. Probably a little better...really they are comparable.
No, I wouldn't say they are comparable given the annual class sizes of SGU is between 700 to 800 (not even including the newer branch in England). About 20 SGU students match into categorical general surgery each year. On the other hand, 4 to 5 match into categorical general surgery from the Israeli school out of a class that fluctuates from 55 to 65, in addition to one or two matches into neurosurgery and ortho. These results are comparable to US schools like SIU (which has an 80 people class), UIC (6 to 12 gen surgs in a class of 280) and NYMC (which matches around 10-12 gen surgery residencies in a class of 190). Add this to the greater proportion of primary care matches to Mt. Sinai Hospital and John Hopkins (the real hospitals, not the affiliates) amongst Sackler grads, the advantage is pretty clear cut. SGU does produce some really good matches too, but out of a class of 700, the odds you'll also be one is greatly diluted.

Annual tuition at Sackler is also at least $20,000 cheaper than SGU.

Best of luck to the OP in deciding what to do and where to go. It's a long and often unfair process, but if you're determined, I'm sure you'll get what you wanted wherever you may go. Now, I'll butt out from this thread.
 
Some of the people @SGU aren't from the US and aren't really trying to get US residencies, though.

I think the entering stats, like MCAT score, etc. might be higher for the Israeli med schools...are they? If they are, you'd expect them to get higher USMLE scores and probably match more easily into surgery. I'm just guessing here...
I also think a lot of people who go somewhere like St George, as opposed to waiting more year(s) to try to get into a US or Canadian school, probably have already decided they will mainly try for a primary care residency. That may skew the match specialties you are looking at.

But on further consideration I'd say you are mostly right...the match stats posted for the Israeli school are better than the St. George and SABA matches I've seen posted. As a group, it looks like the Israeli school's students did somewhat better. I do wonder how some of these Caribbean schools can try to educate that many med students at once...it's labor intensive and takes a LOT of faculty preceptors to train 3rd and 4th year med students in even a rudimentary manner.
 
The things that you don't know about non-US medical schools could fill the Grand Canyon.

Why do you even post when you have no idea what's going on? Do you even have a job or do you surf the net all day?

Yours truly, a concerned citizen.



But on further consideration I'd say you are mostly right...the match stats posted for the Israeli school are better than the St. George and SABA matches I've seen posted. As a group, it looks like the Israeli school's students did somewhat better. I do wonder how some of these Caribbean schools can try to educate that many med students at once...it's labor intensive and takes a LOT of faculty preceptors to train 3rd and 4th year med students in even a rudimentary manner.
 
Yes...I indeed have a job...I'm a fellow...doing research this year, so much time spent waiting for stuff to be done...thus much time surfing @times...

I actually have a couple of close personal friends who attended Israeli med schools and they matched well (both US citizens). I know both of them had academic credentials comparable to folks who got into US med schools...one had an MCAT score that would be borderline for a US school, but great grades. It is still harder for Israeli grads to get a good residency vs. a typical US grad. I think the Israeli schools have good name recognition in the New York area. Not many people in the Midwest (where I am from) attend or have heard of those Israeli schools, however. DO physicians are common in the Midwest, especially fp and IM docs...
I have worked with a few Carib docs, including a SGU grad who was an attending, and they were fine. I will say that Carib docs are few and far between at most of the academic hospitals where I've trained, but there are a few.

I think the OP is unlikely to get into any US MD schools, even with a better MCAT score. He/she would need to raise the GPA as well as the MCAT score.

The OP's MCAT score would be OK for some DO schools, but the grades are still pretty borderline.

I honestly think the Israeli and a good Caribbean med school are comparable choices for the OP...he/she could succeed at either one if the desire and aptitude are there. Personally, I think to go DO would be a safer choice vs. either Israel or Carib schools, as they have their own residency programs but you can still apply for MD/allopathic residencies as well...but perhaps my view is skewed by being from the Midwest where DO docs are common.
 
The things that you don't know about non-US medical schools could fill the Grand Canyon.

Why do you even post when you have no idea what's going on? Do you even have a job or do you surf the net all day?

Yours truly, a concerned citizen.

Not here to start an arguement.

But, if you were face-to-face with a fellow, I doubt you would show such disrespect. So, please try to do the same here.
 
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