Carribean School

[droidrazr]

There have been numerous threads emphasizing the following:

US MD>= US DO >>>>>>>>>>>> Caribbean MD

I was looking at the residency placements of Caribbean schools and found the following placement chart. Now, looking at this placement chart, one can easily figure out that Caribbean schools are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. I was quite impressed with the placement rate at top residencies. From the information I gathered, the only challenge Caribbean students face is attaining a spot at residency. From the placement chart, many have been matched so does it make St. George, Ross or AUC a good option for someone who isn't able to get into US MD schools?


http://www.aucmed.edu/alumni/residency-and-the-match/2012-residency-placements/

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[Gut Shot]

I was quite impressed with the placement rate at top residencies.

What top residencies might those be? I looked at the list and it's a Who's Who of non-competitive specialties and/or programs no one has heard of.

From the information I gathered, the only challenge Caribbean students face is attaining a spot at residency.

Considering that attaining a residency spot is the difference between being able to practice and being saddled with six figure debt and no career prospects, I'd say it's a pretty significant challenge.

 

[Law2Doc]

There have been numerous threads emphasizing the following:

US MD>= US DO >>>>>>>>>>>> Caribbean MD

I was looking at the residency placements of Caribbean schools and found the following placement chart. Now, looking at this placement chart, one can easily figure out that Caribbean schools are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. I was quite impressed with the placement rate at top residencies. From the information I gathered, the only challenge Caribbean students face is attaining a spot at residency. From the placement chart, many have been matched so does it make St. George, Ross or AUC a good option for someone who isn't able to get into US MD schools?


http://www.aucmed.edu/alumni/residency-and-the-match/2012-residency-placements/

No no no. Very bad option. Don't look at the match list, it's misleading. Bait and switch. Focus on the majority that don't get that far. So what if they end up with 50 matches that look ok on paper, if they leave another 300 hopefuls by the wayside along the way. The most important point of med school us ending up with a Residency afterwards. If you don't get that, you wasted a lot of time and money. So the match list isn't important. the attrition rate is. The number of people that don't graduate in 4 years is. Basically in US med school there is less than 5% attrition, and about 98% of those who stick through for four years end up in residency. For offshore places, attrition can be as high as half, and match rates as low as 40%. that makes it a bad option. Worse odds than you get in most casino games.

Not to mention that as US enrollment increases each year, the number of residency slots available drops -- there may be very few residency slots available for nonUS grads in 4 years.

I see no reason for you to have started a new thread in this -- this same topic is discussed on this board every day or two, always with the same conclusions. If you don't want to believe everybody, by all means go to AUC. It's really supposed to be a last ditch effort, hail Mary pass, if there's no way to rehabilitate your grades for a US program. but if that's you, your odds of being in the top quarter of your Caribbean class aren't that good to start with. But if you can pull it off, kudos -- you will ave overcome quite a lot.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Those are crude numbers... focus on the percentages.

 

[487806]

There have been numerous threads emphasizing the following:

US MD>= US DO >>>>>>>>>>>> Caribbean MD

I was looking at the residency placements of Caribbean schools and found the following placement chart. Now, looking at this placement chart, one can easily figure out that Caribbean schools are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. I was quite impressed with the placement rate at top residencies. From the information I gathered, the only challenge Caribbean students face is attaining a spot at residency. From the placement chart, many have been matched so does it make St. George, Ross or AUC a good option for someone who isn't able to get into US MD schools?


http://www.aucmed.edu/alumni/residency-and-the-match/2012-residency-placements/

Use a search function next time. This topic has been discussed several times and

 

[Textbookversion]

US MD>= US DO >>>>>>>>>>>> Caribbean MD]

Well that part of your post is true.

Probably a paid advertiser for AUC. Thread seems suspicious.

 

[Mehd School]

It's not a coincidence that 97% of that match lists IM/FM.

 

[darklabel]

14% NOT matching is really bad, no DO schools (let alone MD) have such a bad match rate.

Also, remember the key word, ELIGIBLE. You can only imagine how many broken hearts there are throughout those 4 years.

This has been spoken about ad nauseum. If "MD" matter that much and you think you're better than the 300+ people in your class, than go for it. Sadly with the increase in enrollment for both DO and MD, past match lists won't do you much good, especially 4 years from now. Its difficult to know what will happen (guesses have ranged from DO will be SOL to DOs will be more competitive with the merger to MD having more competition). But one thing that is agreed on is how the Match is leaving out IMGs. If I recall correctly, the AAMC, ACGME and such organizations are actively trying to push out IMGs as said in one of their reports. They want a parity between US grads and residency spots.

 

[as1212559]

That match list is unimpressive at best.

And those are the people who made it through the schooling, were allowed to sit boards, and passed boards.

Also, there are 240 matches on that list. This seems fishy, do they even enroll that many people every year? I thought AUC was smaller?

 

[sinombre]

That match list is unimpressive at best.

And those are the people who made it through the schooling, were allowed to sit boards, and passed boards.

Also, there are 240 matches on that list. This seems fishy, do they even enroll that many people every year? I thought AUC was smaller?

Maybe they're including those that match their second and third try?

 

[CognitiveSci]

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD, DO NOT GO CARIBBEAN! Do a post-bacc or Master's if you really want to go MD, but have bad stats

 

[mmmcdowe]

Maybe they're including those that match their second and third try?

Some schools down there have 2 or even 3 classes per year.

 

[sinombre]

Some schools down there have 2 or even 3 classes per year.

Ahh right... forgot about the different start times.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Some schools down there have 2 or even 3 classes per year.

Yeah I've always wondered how that worked..

 

[circulus vitios]

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD, DO NOT GO CARIBBEAN! Do a post-bacc or Master's if you really want to go MD, but have bad stats

Go DO. Why the hell would you pay $30-60k for a worthless SMP that has like a 50/50 shot of getting you into med school?

 

[113]

Where are the matches in surfing and coconut eating?

Sent from my SPH-L700 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ichiban88]

How do their USMLE scores compare?

They do have one matching at Cedars-Sinai.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Well there's one thing that the Caribbean schools probably have that the US MD and DO schools can't match.

Mangos. MMMmmm...

 

[CognitiveSci]

Go DO. Why the hell would you pay $30-60k for a worthless SMP that has like a 50/50 shot of getting you into med school?

If OP's considering DO, then that's fine. But to simply go DO just because you couldn't go MD is dishonest.

 

[487806]

If OP's considering DO, then that's fine. But to simply go DO just because you couldn't go MD is dishonest.

Unfortunately, that's a common reason why many people go to DO.

 

[Doctor Strange]

If OP's considering DO, then that's fine. But to simply go DO just because you couldn't go MD is dishonest.

If the degrees are equal as everyone says they are, then there's nothing "dishonest" about it. A doctor is a doctor is a doctor... Philosophically, there is a narrowing distinction between MD and DO these days.

 

[113]

If OP's considering DO, then that's fine. But to simply go DO just because you couldn't go MD is dishonest.

You say dishonest. I say practical.

 

[Ost3oclast]

You say dishonest. I say practical.

Yes.

 

[GopherMD]

If OP's considering DO, then that's fine. But to simply go DO just because you couldn't go MD is dishonest.

If I don't get accepted to an MD program, I will be attending a DO program. Why the heck shouldn't I? I don't see the use in doing a post-bacc/SMP and wasting time and $$$. It's not dishonest (how did you come to THAT conclusion?), it's called pursuing my goal of becoming a PHYSICIAN, not an MD.

 

[circulus vitios]

If OP's considering DO, then that's fine. But to simply go DO just because you couldn't go MD is dishonest.

what is this i don't even

 

[hallowmann]

If I don't get accepted to an MD program, I will be attending a DO program. Why the heck shouldn't I? I don't see the use in doing a post-bacc/SMP and wasting time and $$$. It's not dishonest (how did you come to THAT conclusion?), it's called pursuing my goal of becoming a PHYSICIAN, not an MD.

Yeah, I don't know what he was thinking. Something like 84% of applicants to DO schools have applied to an MD program (international or domestic). Its not dishonest for all those people to go to a DO school. All that matters is that the schools are producing more graduates who will be great physicians.


Also as far as this thread goes, AUC, Ross and SGU are the best schools in the Caribbean. This site makes them look much worse than they actually are, but that still doesn't change the fact that US MD >/= DO >>>> Caribbean MD, but this is a general rule that takes into account the ever shrinking residency spot to US medical graduates ratio. Sure there are anecdotal cases of people having it easier in some programs as a US IMG than a DO or even transferring from SGU to a US MD program, but again these are few and far between and will be even less common after 2016.

 

[CognitiveSci]

Not a he, I'm a she.

First off, I only said that if OP wanted to pursue an MD ONLY, then they should do that, rather than go DO because it'll be easier to get in, sheesh.

And they are lots of people who do post-baccs or SMPs because they really want an MD, not a DO, but if OP is fine with either, than that's ok. I really wish people who learn to read between the lines, I was not suggesting you throw away your money. If you're fine with a DO, than ok. If you wanted an MD, I was only suggesting what you could do!

Either way, any of the choices posters have suggested are better than the Caribbean

 

[hallowmann]

Not a he, I'm a she.

First off, I only said that if OP wanted to pursue an MD ONLY, then they should do that, rather than go DO because it'll be easier to get in, sheesh.

And they are lots of people who do post-baccs or SMPs because they really want an MD, not a DO, but if OP is fine with either, than that's ok. I really wish people who learn to read between the lines, I was not suggesting you throw away your money. If you're fine with a DO, than ok. If you wanted an MD, I was only suggesting what you could do!

How would it be dishonest though? We weren't disagreeing with what you meant between the lines, we were disagreeing with what you flat out said . Also,, sorry for the "he".

 

[CognitiveSci]

How would it be dishonest though? We weren't disagreeing with what you meant between the lines, we were disagreeing with what you flat out said . Also,, sorry for the "he".

Osteo schools want people who are genuinely interested in getting a DO. If you're going to attend a DO school simply because you couldn't get into a MD school, I think that's dishonest. If you want an MD, then strive for one, rather than do to a DO just because it was easier for you to get in.

This is only if you truly want an MD, but are just "settling" for a DO.

 

[circulus vitios]

Osteo schools want people who are genuinely interested in getting a DO. If you're going to attend a DO school simply because you couldn't get into a MD school, I think that's dishonest. If you want an MD, then strive for one, rather than do to a DO just because it was easier for you to get in.

This is only if you truly want an MD, but are just "settling" for a DO.

The vast majority of osteopathic physicians do not use osteopathic manipulation treatments in their practice of medicine. Osteopathic schools also support their students who apply to ACGME residencies. Does that mean the schools themselves are dishonest?

 

[CognitiveSci]

Oh Lord, I give up

 

[GopherMD]

Oh Lord, I give up

Your argument is flawed. Of course I want to attend an MD school, but I see a DO program as a viable back up. Is that dishonest? No, it's me realizing that I want to be a physician (read: the letters after my name won't matter as an attending) and don't want to waste time/$$$ on maybe increasing my odds of getting into an MD program. According to AAMC, I have about a 70% "chance" of getting accepted to an MD program this cycle. I don't see how taking another year or two to improve my application will help me if I can't be accepted this cycle.

(I'm a reapplicant this cycle, FYI)

I WANT to become a physician and DO affords me that opportunity. Who cares if I didn't apply to just DO or just MD.

 

[CognitiveSci]

Your argument is flawed. Of course I want to attend an MD school, but I see a DO program as a viable back up. Is that dishonest? No, it's me realizing that I want to be a physician (read: the letters after my name won't matter as an attending) and don't want to waste time/$$$ on maybe increasing my odds of getting into an MD program. According to AAMC, I have about a 70% "chance" of getting accepted to an MD program this cycle. I don't see how taking another year or two to improve my application will help me if I can't be accepted this cycle.

(I'm a reapplicant this cycle, FYI)

I WANT to become a physician and DO affords me that opportunity. Who cares if I didn't apply to just DO or just MD.

One last time: if you are fine with either an MD or DO, THEN GO FOR IT! But, if you were just wanting an MD, then it wouldn't be right for you take a spot in an osteo when someone else who really wants a DO could have taken it. You are ok with either an MD or DO, so it doesn't not apply to you. I was suggesting you do an SMP or post-bacc if you were specifically seeking an MD, you said you were ok with either after the original post. My response was to the original post in which you didn't say you were happy with either degree. Please by all means apply MD and DO if that's what you want; I am not saying that's dishonest. It would be dishonest to take up a DO spot if you want an MD. Not everyone is ok with either degree, you are so go ahead.

 

[GopherMD]

by attending a DO program, one is obviously ok with the degree. The ones not ok with the DO degree are NOT going to attend a DO school, thus taking no one's spot.

Edit: I can see where you are trying to go with this, but realistically this isn't a problem.


but back to the OP....
DON'T EVER GO TO THE CARIBBEAN

 

[487806]

Osteo schools want people who are genuinely interested in getting a DO. If you're going to attend a DO school simply because you couldn't get into a MD school, I think that's dishonest. If you want an MD, then strive for one, rather than do to a DO just because it was easier for you to get in.

This is only if you truly want an MD, but are just "settling" for a DO.

Oh Lord, I give up

You're being idealistic here. DO and MD schools both produce physicians. There is no dishonesty involved. MD and DO are essentially identical, but that's already been discussed before.

One last time: if you are fine with either an MD or DO, THEN GO FOR IT! But, if you were just wanting an MD, then it wouldn't be right for you take a spot in an osteo when someone else who really wants a DO could have taken it. You are ok with either an MD or DO, so it doesn't not apply to you. I was suggesting you do an SMP or post-bacc if you were specifically seeking an MD, you said you were ok with either after the original post. My response was to the original post in which you didn't say you were happy with either degree. Please by all means apply MD and DO if that's what you want; I am not saying that's dishonest. It would be dishonest to take up a DO spot if you want an MD. Not everyone is ok with either degree, you are so go ahead.

It's called applying broadly. Even when people do SMPs/post-baccs, it's still difficult for some of them to get into med schools, so they are flexible and apply broadly.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Osteo schools want people who are genuinely interested in getting a DO. If you're going to attend a DO school simply because you couldn't get into a MD school, I think that's dishonest. If you want an MD, then strive for one, rather than do to a DO just because it was easier for you to get in.

This is only if you truly want an MD, but are just "settling" for a DO.

Please not this separate but equal spiel. Even with an SMP or post-bacc, once your GPA is flush down the toilet it is not coming back (you are just meeting cut offs). People like myself apply broadly and want to become doctors period.

I don't care about being MD or DO as long as I become a doctor. I admit that I would prefer the MD but the reason is this: there are more residencies offered by the ACGME than by the AOA. Even with the merger, I have no clue how DO students will be viewed by ACGME programs. Plus, with the merger, some AOA residencies may not meet ACGME stands and thus shut down leaving more DOs competition for ACGME residencies (this is not even factoring in the increase of DO schools and seats).

Competition in this day and age is ridiculous and we have to realize all that matters is the dream of being a doctor. I will apply broadly to both MD and DO to realize this dream.

 

[Ravizzle]

I think they meant dishonest for the likes of ppl who ask if they can reapply MD as an MS1 in a DO school. Those ppl attend a DO school, but still eye the MD.

That being said their original post was worded in an unclear way.

I personally applied both MD and DO even though my chances at MD were pretty slim, but I figured might as well apply and get rejected than think "what if". I only got DO school love, and I am extremely excited and proud to be attending a DO school.

Am I all gung ho about omm? Nope. In fact the DOs i shadowed never used OMM (IM Hospitalists).

But I do think I will still find at least an ounce of usefulness out of OMM especially with lower back pain.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[113]

DON'T EVER GO TO THE CARIBBEAN

Except on holiday.

 

[deleted127837]

 

[Ost3oclast]

Love it

 

[La Presse]

Does anyone remember this?

US MD > Int'l MD > US DO

 

[GopherMD]

Except on holiday.

So true. Guess I should clarify. Don't ever go to the Caribbean to receive a medical education. There, fixed it.

 

[GopherMD]

Does anyone remember this?

US MD > Int'l MD > US DO

That was so 1990's

 

[IslandStyle808]

Does anyone remember this?

US MD > Int'l MD > US DO

No.. NO... NO.. please no more that was just torture.

 

[HughMyron]

If OP's considering DO, then that's fine. But to simply go DO just because you couldn't go MD is dishonest.

???

That's why most people go DO. What's wrong with that?

 

[Medstart108]

No no no. Very bad option. Don't look at the match list, it's misleading. Bait and switch. Focus on the majority that don't get that far. So what if they end up with 50 matches that look ok on paper, if they leave another 300 hopefuls by the wayside along the way. The most important point of med school us ending up with a Residency afterwards. If you don't get that, you wasted a lot of time and money. So the match list isn't important. the attrition rate is. The number of people that don't graduate in 4 years is. Basically in US med school there is less than 5% attrition, and about 98% of those who stick through for four years end up in residency. For offshore places, attrition can be as high as half, and match rates as low as 40%. that makes it a bad option. Worse odds than you get in most casino games.

Not to mention that as US enrollment increases each year, the number of residency slots available drops -- there may be very few residency slots available for nonUS grads in 4 years.

I see no reason for you to have started a new thread in this -- this same topic is discussed on this board every day or two, always with the same conclusions. If you don't want to believe everybody, by all means go to AUC. It's really supposed to be a last ditch effort, hail Mary pass, if there's no way to rehabilitate your grades for a US program. but if that's you, your odds of being in the top quarter of your Caribbean class aren't that good to start with. But if you can pull it off, kudos -- you will ave overcome quite a lot.

In my opinion, its the person not the school. The Caribbean deals with students who couldn't get into US schools and there is usually a reason why. They are more likely to be less intelligent, less hardworking and less dedicated which is exactly the reason why they aren't in US schools in the first place. The attrition rate is normal because the Caribbean schools pick up the heaps of rocks and sorts out the gold in them. Most of the rocks were never meant to be doctors anyways. The gold are people who messed up in undergrad but have the potential, the smarts and the drive to succeed now. Blaming the caribbean for a high attrition rate says nothing about the schools themselves. It only speaks for the average quality of candidate that matriculates.

 

[CognitiveSci]

Jesus, I forgot one can not give their opinion on the internet anymore. And who are any of you to tell me MY opinion is wrong? Was I condeming any of you? If you disagree then ok, but please do not make me look like some self-righteous crusader

 

[theseeker4]

Jesus, I forgot one can not give their opinion on the internet anymore. And who are any of you to tell me MY opinion is wrong? Was I condeming any of you? If you disagree then ok, but please do not make me look like some self-righteous crusader

Calling people who use DO as a backup dishonest made you look like a self righteous crusader, not what anyone said to you, sorry. And yes, you have every right to express your opinion, and each person here has the exact same right to tell you that you are wrong. Free speech works both ways.

 

[CognitiveSci]

Calling people who use DO as a backup dishonest made you look like a self righteous crusader, not what anyone said to you, sorry. And yes, you have every right to express your opinion, and each person here has the exact same right to tell you that you are wrong. Free speech works both ways.

Ok.

 

[487806]

Jesus, I forgot one can not give their opinion on the internet anymore. And who are any of you to tell me MY opinion is wrong? Was I condeming any of you? If you disagree then ok, but please do not make me look like some self-righteous crusader

Because we have the right to disagree with you.

Calling people who use DO as a backup dishonest made you look like a self righteous crusader, not what anyone said to you, sorry. And yes, you have every right to express your opinion, and each person here has the exact same right to tell you that you are wrong. Free speech works both ways.