Case of NRMP Violation?

[Global Disrobal]

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So I got a heated call from my #3 program's PD last night stating how devastated and shocked he was to have seen where I matched and that it was in a specialty other than than his. I had basically applied to two specialties and when he had called me right before the ROL deadline, I told him that I liked their program and thought of them highly (nothing more, nothing less)... Anyway, the guy was all worked up, and finished the call by saying " I'll see you around town..."

So is this sort of "call" a violation of sorts?

Ironically its funny to see the shoe on the other foot. How many programs call the applicants when they screw the poor medical student over by telling them that they ranked them high and really didn't?

 

[tofurious]

I see it as poor form but I don't see it as a match violation...

For your sake, I hope the two specialties/hospitals are sufficiently distant that he won't bother you through your future department chair/residency director.

 

[kinetic]

This is what I was talking about in my posts to tsj in the 'A program that didn't match me called' thread. You can bet if you did the same thing this jack-off PD did, you'd be blacklisted in every program in the nation and your own PD would probably get a 'concerned' call.

Can you imagine what the repercussions for you would be if you phoned a program all worked up and yelled at them for a while and ended the call by saying "I'll see you around town!" It's all warm and fuzzy feelings during the interviews and talk about ethics and doing the right thing 24/7, but you get a dose of the REAL world (i.e., hypocrisy) when you interact with administrations.

Had this been a perfect world, you could have 'accidentally' hung up on the guy. But at least you can dream ...

 

[Kalel]

Wow. That guy sounds like a jerk; he's obviously very new to the whole "match" system. My understanding is that PD's, who obviously have more experience with the match system then applicants, are used to this whole "you're my favorite program" game and are oftentimes guilty of playing the same game with applicants themselves. I'd consider contacting the NRMP since he did contact you the day before the ROL deadline and obviously, based upon his most recent conversation with you, was looking to figure out where his program was on your match list. That is a violation of the match agreement. The only reason why I might not contact the NRMP is if you were worried about any sort of retaliation. Unfortunately, academic medicine can be pretty petty at times, and us junior folks are always the ones who are most vulnerable.

 

[joedogma]

I think it is pretty pathetic that this PD is all worked up over this on a Saturday night. Instead of saying that he was happy that you matched where YOU wanted to go and asking politely how he could make his program more attractive he lets his ego get in the way and tries to make you feel uncomfortable. Was this one of those path programs that didn't fill? Anyway, its interesting to see some of the most educated people in the world act so childish...
btw...I am thinking about a path residency, could you pm me the name of the program so that I can perhaps cross them off my list?

 

[Global Disrobal]

I'm still laughing JoeDogma...

It is in fact a Path program but interestingly enough they matched. I even said, I wish you luck with this year and I'm sure you got wonderful applicants before he dropped the "I'll see you around town" line...

Tufurious: Its Path and OB (don't ask why those 2) and the programs are in the same town.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. It makes me feel better!

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

Why those 2?

 

[tofurious]

Now I have to ask: which town is this?

 

[droliver]

I'm not sure what you're so worked up about. This PD obviously thought enough of you to have taken the time to lobby you personally to come to their program & was disappointed they didn't land you. It sounds like he/she cares a great deal about their program & felt like you were a good fit for their family. I'd be flattered. I don't think this comes that close to an NRMP violation at all. Generalized converstations about "how much we like you" or "you're @ the top of our rank list" are fair game

 

[Global Disrobal]

DROLIVER- Trust me in that I was flattered by the fact that he gave me this much attention. But I was also worked up because the call came in at 9:00 on a Saturday night, and the guy was beside himself. I can understand his need to call and find out "what happened" but the fact that he was so angry was what took me by surprise.

I know that we are allowed to have contact and discuss general issues, but I was also under the impression that this was to be done in a professional tone.

The reason why I posted this was predominantly to illustrate a point. This PD gives himself the right (you call it courtesy to me) to call me at that time of the night to unload...but what if I had done the same with a PD? I would be willing to bet that my career would be done in that field!

 

[kinetic]

Not only that, but what business of his is it "what happened"? Why should you have to "explain yourself"? You ranked programs and let the Match go to work. Even IF this guy wasn't acting all hostile, he still has no right to call you at home and grill you on the Match. You should have asked him for his home number and told him you'd call him back.

 

[margaritaboy]

Originally posted by droliver
I'm not sure what you're so worked up about. This PD obviously thought enough of you to have taken the time to lobby you personally to come to their program & was disappointed they didn't land you. It sounds like he/she cares a great deal about their program & felt like you were a good fit for their family. I'd be flattered. I don't think this comes that close to an NRMP violation at all. Generalized converstations about "how much we like you" or "you're @ the top of our rank list" are fair game

Sorry. But getting an angry call from anyone on a Sat night would be upsetting. And a PD of all people...

 

[amdap]

Sorry this is kind of off-topic, but what do these PDs and programs do with all this post-match information, anyway? I have been getting bombarded with post-match surveys asking why I did not choose the program.

Do they actually care and look at this information and put it to any use? What difference does it make what anyone thinks - match is over, and we all ended up where we ended up. Let's move on. We ranked the programs the way we did for all the same reasons people did in the past - location, gut feeling, attitudes of faculty/residents, etc. There are really no big surprises, here.

Also, what is up with the so-called "anonymous" replies you can e-mail back to the program . . . if it has your name on the e-mail, it's not anonymous!

 

[Global Disrobal]

I think they use it to evaluate their program and basically troubleshoot areas where they deem necessary.

Good Luck with your upcoming internship!

 

[amdap]

A friend of mine also got a similar call like this (albeit, not on a Saturday night) from his home school program which was not his 1st choice. He matched into his 1st choice in surgery. The PD put him on this guilt trip which was supposedly way out-of-line and (unnecessarily) caused my friend to enjoy his post-match days a lot less than he should have.

Someone had previously posted a thread about the games of matching - I think that PDs should also psychologically prepare themselves for disappointment, instead of dropping frivolous flattering comments and expecting to secure every desirable applicant they want.

Anyway, Global Disrobal, I hope you enjoy your residency program!

 

[Leforte]

Saturday night at 9pm....

Hmm...

I wonder if he was thinking of the match after a bottle of vino - a great time to make a call!


Just a thought.

 

[aliraja]

a drunk-dialing PD!

 

[tracheatoedoc]

So I got a heated call from my #3 program's PD last night stating how devastated and shocked he was to have seen where I matched and that it was in a specialty other than than his. I had basically applied to two specialties and when he had called me right before the ROL deadline, I told him that I liked their program and thought of them highly (nothing more, nothing less)... Anyway, the guy was all worked up, and finished the call by saying " I'll see you around town..."

So is this sort of "call" a violation of sorts?

Ironically its funny to see the shoe on the other foot. How many programs call the applicants when they screw the poor medical student over by telling them that they ranked them high and really didn't?

This is really inappropriate and sounds threatening. I think you should lodge a formal complaint against this person. You made your ROL, and ranked the program third--that's high on a list--as if it's any of the PDs business. The message was threatening, the appropriate dean needs to know, this PD will shut his mouth quickly. Making this situation known to this holes superiors will protect you from any reprisals. You probably have his number on your caller ID.

 

[surg]

As to the question of why the post-match surveys, I would view programs that send those in a good light. These are programs that are actively trying to improve their program (or at least how they present their program). Remember, while you will only need to do the match 1 or 2 times in your life (depending on whether you do a fellowship), the programs do it every year. If there is something that is turning off their top applicants, a program can change it to try to get their top choices the next year. Perhaps it is a harder call schedule, the lack of book money, the salary, the location (not fixable), whatever. Things that can be changed that doesn't change the nature of the program should be changed. Programs that don't care or figure that they are as good as they are going to be, don't send these. Returning the surveys is a good thing for those following you as it increases the number of excellent programs out there.

 

[JonnyG]

This is really inappropriate and sounds threatening. I think you should lodge a formal complaint against this person. You made your ROL, and ranked the program third--that's high on a list--as if it's any of the PDs business. The message was threatening, the appropriate dean needs to know, this PD will shut his mouth quickly. Making this situation known to this holes superiors will protect you from any reprisals. You probably have his number on your caller ID.

considering this happened FIVE years ago, I doubt it really matters.

 

[xanthines]

What's up with resurrecting a 5 year old thread?

Although, I would like to know how the OP's story ended. Did that PD keep bothering you? Did he break your kneecaps?

-X

 

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