Case vs. Ohio-public schools

[mellotron]

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I?ve finished the Ohio-circuit of interviews and as I patiently await responses, I?m having an inner debate that I?m hoping you all can help me out with. You see, I went into this process with the ?doesn?t matter where you go to school? mindset, coupled with ?be sensible and minimize your debt?. So with that mindset, I was perfectly happy with the public school opportunities in Ohio, and figured I?d go through the motions at Case because they break both of my ?rules?.

Turns out, my Case visit was fantastic, and money/moving aside they?re at the top of my list. I would really feel comfortable there. But the money gap is certainly real. I?m not a scholarship candidate ? it?s inconceivable that I?d have anywhere near the debt from elsewhere that I would at Case. However, Case claims that the ?average? debt is $100k compared to $85 at the state schools.

So all this generates two questions:
1. How can Case?s stats be accurate?
2. If you picked Case over Ohio-publics (or any private over a public school) what are the things that push you over the edge? How do you justify the cost difference?

Naturally, help from the folks, scholarships, strict beans & rice diet, etc. all play a factor. I?m curious to hear some anecdotes as to how people are making this rationalization.

Thanks much for the help
🙂

 

[Nirvana]

Since you're going to be in debt anyways, what's a few more thousand dollars? That's how I see it, but your opinion may differ. I figure that if you really love a school over the others, then you should go there. You'll be making good enough money when you graduate and will be able to pay off your debt eventually.

Good luck! 😉

Originally posted by mellotron
I?ve finished the Ohio-circuit of interviews and as I patiently await responses, I?m having an inner debate that I?m hoping you all can help me out with. You see, I went into this process with the ?doesn?t matter where you go to school? mindset, coupled with ?be sensible and minimize your debt?. So with that mindset, I was perfectly happy with the public school opportunities in Ohio, and figured I?d go through the motions at Case because they break both of my ?rules?.

Turns out, my Case visit was fantastic, and money/moving aside they?re at the top of my list. I would really feel comfortable there. But the money gap is certainly real. I?m not a scholarship candidate ? it?s inconceivable that I?d have anywhere near the debt from elsewhere that I would at Case. However, Case claims that the ?average? debt is $100k compared to $85 at the state schools.

So all this generates two questions:
1. How can Case?s stats be accurate?
2. If you picked Case over Ohio-publics (or any private over a public school) what are the things that push you over the edge? How do you justify the cost difference?

Naturally, help from the folks, scholarships, strict beans & rice diet, etc. all play a factor. I?m curious to hear some anecdotes as to how people are making this rationalization.

Thanks much for the help
🙂

 

[Horseradish99]

I'm definitely not an expert, but I would think that the average debt at Case is much higher than the average debt coming from one of the publics. My uncle graduated from Case, and he absolutely LOVED the school, but from the day I told him I wanted to go into medicine, he said, DO NOT GO TO CASE. Go somewhere cheaper. You can get a great education with wonderful opportunities anywhere you go, and the Ohio public schools are much cheaper from what I can tell.

I too interviewed at Case and loved it. It's really tough to decline their offer, but for me personally, I know I can get a wonderful education at OSU (or any other public). I don't like the philosophy that just because you are going into debt you should take out as much as you can... $100,000 is different from $85,000.

On the other hand, if you aren't that worried about paying off your debt and you think you'll be raking in enough cash later in life to pay it off, go to the school you love. If Case is that school, go and enjoy it! It's a wonderful school.

🙂 Hope that helps. At least know that there are some of us out there who are not ashamed to choose a public school that is lower ranked and decline a higher tier private school for financial reasons!

Scott

 

[WSUreds]

I had problems figuring out Case's stats too. They didn't seem to add up when comparing the tuition of the other schools in Ohio and since cost of living anywhere in Ohio is pretty much homogenous. But I think they award grants to students who demonstrate financial need or assisstance. I remember numbers last year that they threw at us about a certain percentage of students receiving grants from the school. It was fairly significant.


In the end, I choose a public, state school(UC) over Case and the other state schools for various reasons.

1) Cost - UC is very cheap, but tuition did and is continuing to rise dramatically as Taft cuts spending on higher education.

2)Reputation - Case does have the better reputation of any of the schools in Ohio, but UC is very highly regarded in the Midwest and nationally.

3)Board scores and match lists - our average board scores here are very high and something that the school is very proud of and a very diverse match lists with various specialities throughout the nation

4) Facilities and Technology - The facilities and level of technology is far superior to Case in many aspects in my opinion. We have an advanced clinical skills teaching lab, standarized patient rooms with state of the art digital video for assessing and practicing the clinical and bedside skills, study rooms with your own laptop computer and desk, and a health sciences library which is in the top 5 in the nation.

5) Renovation and construction of a new med school building - Starting this spring, UC is beginning construction on a $100 million renovation of the Medical Science Building and construction of a new med school.

6)Affiliation with Cincinnati Childrens - UC is affiliated with CCHMC which in one of the top 3 peds hospitals in the nation along with a top 5 residency program and plentiful research. Childrens is on the same medical campus as the medical school and University Hospital.

7)Research - With over 200 million in NIH grants, UC is an innovative research leader with goals to increase its research and make Cincinnati a biomedical hub.

8)Students - As some of my classmates have said, UC has a bunch of friendly, outgoing, fun, and non-competitive students. The atmosphere breeds success.

UC is a hidden gem and does not receive the national recognition that it rightfully deserves.

 

[Caffeinated]

I agree with the "go where you love" sentiment, but don't be too cavalier about accumulating debt. Remember that the more you take out, the higher that monthly payment will be. I have talked to some docs from private schools that were happy with their education, but they had classmates who wanted to pursue a lower paying specialty (e.g., family practice, peds) but they couldn't afford to do what they wanted. So they had to go into the higher paying specialties just to service the large debt they accrued. I know, they are weak anecdotes, but just keep in mind that somebody eventually comes to collect that debt. If you keep it low enough, you can afford to pay it off on the 10 yr plan. If it's astronomical, you may have to finance it over 30 yrs. At that rate, you would be in your 50's (or even 60's!) by the time you saw that debt disappear.

Food for thought.

 

[mellotron]

Great input, everybody. I appreciate it. Though I gotta say, the pro-public arguments are more convincing. Where are all the Case matriculators? I'm quite interested to hear your reasonings!

 

[mws99]

Originally posted by mellotron
Great input, everybody. I appreciate it. Though I gotta say, the pro-public arguments are more convincing. Where are all the Case matriculators? I'm quite interested to hear your reasonings!

I'm not an Ohio resident, but there is a very good chance that I will be at Case next year. My only other option as of now is Wayne State, a state school in my home state. I will end up spending more at Case, but I think it will be well worth it. Maybe one of my biggest reasons for choosing Case is the fact that I went to a no name undergrad. While I think I got a good education, there has always been a part of me that has wondered if I would have been happier at a "better" school. I know that if I chose my state school I will have those same feelings again. If I choose Case I know I will have absolutely no regrets about not picking Wayne, except for maybe the price tag. I know this price difference seems large now, but in the long run it is not that big of a deal. I believe the average physician's salary is $160,000, multiply that by 30 years and that is $4.8 million. I never had much money growing up, so I'm not worried about spending more money on education when I know I will being making more than enough to meet my needs.
Also, Case's match list is far superior to Wayne's, especially nationally. With all this snow we have been getting in the midwest lately, I don't know if I want to do my residency here. I'm sure Case would open up more doors around the country.
Another thing is Case's curriculum. P/F the first 2 years without any class ranking can't be beat. I also like the organ based approach they use, I think it is the best way to learn. In the end, you have to make the choice for yourself, so maybe none of our reasons will be the same as yours.

 

[Zoobaby]

I think Case's average debt stats include 30 something military and underserved area scholarships, and the pretty decent number of $20k/year scholarships that the school gives out itself each year. If you are (like me) not going to have any of those things, and must finance pretty much the whole cost, your debt after Case is going to look more like $200K. Compare that to a state school at $130k or so (again w/o scholarships) and it's a big difference. By the old rule of thumb, thats a $2000 monthly payment vs $1300 when the repayment period starts.

I LOVE Case and really want to go (if I get in) but I am struggling severely with the idea of that much MORE debt. The state schools are great from what i've seen. It'll still take quite a bit to convince me that the private school thing is worth THAT much more.... But that's just me.

 

[mws99]

Originally posted by Zoobaby
I think Case's average debt stats include 30 something military and underserved area scholarships, and the pretty decent number of $20k/year scholarships that the school gives out itself each year. If you are (like me) not going to have any of those things, and must finance pretty much the whole cost, your debt after Case is going to look more like $200K. Compare that to a state school at $130k or so (again w/o scholarships) and it's a big difference. By the old rule of thumb, thats a $2000 monthly payment vs $1300 when the repayment period starts.

Right, but aren't those numbers for a ten year repayment plan after residency? That means you'll still have 20 or so years of earning potential without having to worry about repayments. Plus, during that repayment time the difference is only $8000 a year, when you will probably still be taking in more than $100,000 a year after taxes.

 

[WSUreds]

Originally posted by mws99

Another thing is Case's curriculum. P/F the first 2 years without any class ranking can't be beat. I also like the organ based approach they use, I think it is the best way to learn. In the end, you have to make the choice for yourself, so maybe none of our reasons will be the same as yours.

I was accepted at Case last year and have several friends now attending med school there. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Case is not completely P/F for the two first years. The administration does rank the students but does not inform the students of their class rankings. Plus, you get the H, HP, P, and F during your rotations also.

 

[TroutBum]

Originally posted by mws99
I'm not an Ohio resident, but there is a very good chance that I will be at Case next year. My only other option as of now is Wayne State, a state school in my home state. I will end up spending more at Case, but I think it will be well worth it. Maybe one of my biggest reasons for choosing Case is the fact that I went to a no name undergrad. While I think I got a good education, there has always been a part of me that has wondered if I would have been happier at a "better" school. I know that if I chose my state school I will have those same feelings again. If I choose Case I know I will have absolutely no regrets about not picking Wayne, except for maybe the price tag. I know this price difference seems large now, but in the long run it is not that big of a deal. I believe the average physician's salary is $160,000, multiply that by 30 years and that is $4.8 million. I never had much money growing up, so I'm not worried about spending more money on education when I know I will being making more than enough to meet my needs.
Also, Case's match list is far superior to Wayne's, especially nationally. With all this snow we have been getting in the midwest lately, I don't know if I want to do my residency here. I'm sure Case would open up more doors around the country.
Another thing is Case's curriculum. P/F the first 2 years without any class ranking can't be beat. I also like the organ based approach they use, I think it is the best way to learn. In the end, you have to make the choice for yourself, so maybe none of our reasons will be the same as yours.

Hey, by any chance did you interview at Case on 10/29?

 

[Louweezel]

actually i interviewed 10/29 too. who are you? 🙂

 

[TroutBum]

Hey Louweezel, I PM'd you!

 

[Louweezel]

TroutBum, check your PMs 🙂

 

[mws99]

Troutbum,
I interviewed Nov. 18th.

 

[mws99]

Originally posted by WSUreds
I was accepted at Case last year and have several friends now attending med school there. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Case is not completely P/F for the two first years. The administration does rank the students but does not inform the students of their class rankings. Plus, you get the H, HP, P, and F during your rotations also.

Are you sure about this? Is it something new? This is what mikecwru said in another thread:

"There is no gross ranking that they tell you about (ie: you are 18 out of 145), but there is definitely quartile ranking in the dean's letter.

The last sentence of the Dean's letter at CWRU is: "Therefore, I am pleased to introduce Mr. X as an [outstanding, excellent, very good, good] candidate to your residency program." The adjectives correlate with the quartiles you are as a student and these quartiles are based on your LAST two years of med school (which is highly subjective/random). In addition, like everyone else, you're judged on your board scores, but even more so from CWRU because the rest if pass/fail.

If we had grades in the first two years, I would have gotten "honors" in just about everything. I got 240+ on my step 1. For clinical grades, I got mostly high pass with less than 50% honors (no passes). Therefore, I was an "excellent" candidate.

mike"

 

[Art Vandelay]

Case is absolutely pass/ fail the first two years and it is sooo nice. I have been able to get involved in a ton of interesting things because of having free afternoons and not worrying about grades. I'm not quite sure how to compare Case to the other Ohio schools. They are so different. What do you want after med school? If it is to pay off your debt sooner, go state. I'm not sure where wsu gets their facts, but I'm not aware of any ranking that puts UC childrens above Rainbow Babies. Anyway, let me know if you want to e-mail me or talk in person about Case!

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Originally posted by mws99
Plus, during that repayment time the difference is only $8000 a year, when you will probably still be taking in more than $100,000 a year after taxes.

Obviously you are not familiar with the US federal and state tax code.

 

[mellotron]

Another wrinkle to this debate could be to question the actual difference in tuition due to State Governments being in such poor shape.

So does the case for CWRU benefit by locking in at one tuition amount for four years, vs. an ever-increasing amount from the Ohio Publics over four years?

After four years, we may look back and see that Case really turned out to be a "bargain" due to price-locking, with respect to what incoming classes will be expected to pay.

 

[xaelia]

Originally posted by Art Vandelay
I'm not sure where wsu gets their facts, but I'm not aware of any ranking that puts UC childrens above Rainbow Babies.

I think Cincinnati Children's has more research dollars than Rainbow Babies, but that's about it. Bizarrely, Child Magazine didn't even rank Cincinnati Children's this year - Rainbow Babies was 3rd, Columbus Children's was 13th, Children's Akron was 21st, and Children's Dayton was 23rd.

(I work at #1. 😉 )