Case Western Reserve

[shinyshooz]

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Any thoughts on the quality of this program?

 

[Behcet]

it's a very good program, especially if you want to go into academic medicine

 

[Frank Chen]

Any thoughts on the quality of this program?

I just finished IM residency there and I would not recommend anybody to go there. It is a community hospital(probably worse than average community hospitals) in disguise of a university institution. The chairman is a prick and thinks his institution is Brigham of Cleveland(though CCF looks at UH with complete disdain). At best you stay there to do fellowship(which FYI for cardiology, falling apart at this point, no chief/program director, dwindling attending numbers down to like 15-20 from 45 five years ago, average GI/other specialties, oh, big emphasis on ID if that's you want to do). Nobody of national presence to write reference letters(detrimental if you are applying to fellowship). This is not just my opinion, but also of many residents in the program. In case you are looking to do residency there, I would strongly advise you not to.

 

[orientedtoself]

I just finished IM residency there and I would not recommend anybody to go there. It is a community hospital(probably worse than average community hospitals) in disguise of a university institution. The chairman is a prick and thinks his institution is Brigham of Cleveland(though CCF looks at UH with complete disdain). At best you stay there to do fellowship(which FYI for cardiology, falling apart at this point, no chief/program director, dwindling attending numbers down to like 15-20 from 45 five years ago, average GI/other specialties, oh, big emphasis on ID if that's you want to do). Nobody of national presence to write reference letters(detrimental if you are applying to fellowship). This is not just my opinion, but also of many residents in the program. In case you are looking to do residency there, I would strongly advise you not to.

Frank,
Why do you say that Case is a community hospital? Is there not enough interesting pathology? Also, what is behind the trouble in Cardiology? My advisors think more highly of Case's residency program than CCF, as CCF is supposedly more fellow-run. What is your take on the Case vs. CCF debate?

 

[P Diddy]

why are you so down on case? did you not match well for fellowship? are you stuck at case for fellowship in Cards?

the match for cardiology last year included Michigan for one of the chiefs and a whole lot of Case for the rest. can you provide information about the cardiology match for previous years to support your contention? also, what's wrong with ID at MGH? that's good in anyone's book.

I just finished IM residency there and I would not recommend anybody to go there. It is a community hospital(probably worse than average community hospitals) in disguise of a university institution. The chairman is a prick and thinks his institution is Brigham of Cleveland(though CCF looks at UH with complete disdain). At best you stay there to do fellowship(which FYI for cardiology, falling apart at this point, no chief/program director, dwindling attending numbers down to like 15-20 from 45 five years ago, average GI/other specialties, oh, big emphasis on ID if that's you want to do). Nobody of national presence to write reference letters(detrimental if you are applying to fellowship). This is not just my opinion, but also of many residents in the program. In case you are looking to do residency there, I would strongly advise you not to.

 

[raph91]

Frank has no idea what he's talking about. He's likely either a disgruntled resident or maybe a resident at a competing program who was asked to say things. Or he probably didn't receive an interview.

Before Frank starts saying things, I know both the program director and the associate program director on a personal level.

CWRU has a very strong national reputation. So why do most of their people match in cards there? 1) They have a hx of offering their residents out of match spots to cards. 2) People tend to go there because of locational issues (i.e., family in Ohio).

I have NO idea what Frank is talking about in terms of "no prominent faculty." Al Waldo, widely considered the father of EP, is the head of EP, writes letters for everybody who comes through, and is INTERNATIONALLY renown.

The chair of medicine is a senior editor of Hurst's and is also an internationally renown cardiologist.

The program director has been there for OVER 14 years as program director. That's relatively unheard of. I know 10+ faculty who have come out of CWRU and are some of the most respected names in their fields. All of them know him well and speak of him highly and with the utmost respect.

At the interview dinner, there were more RESIDENTS than APPLICANTS. AND all of them were happy. Unless that happens to be a lie and they were paid off to come, if you'd like to believe that.

 

[Frank Chen]

CCF is only known for fellowship(at least in IM specialities, cards for example Topol takes fellows from nothing but best IM programs in the country MGH/BWH/Stanford). The knock with IM at CCF in the past that they take more IMG's(not that I have anything against them, lots of them are very stellar residents) but lately CCF has also taken many AMG's from decent institutions. Compared to Case (examples
of cards fellowship match at Michigan will be cited but then work hard to become chief resident.) From the other comments, people have raved about Waldo(yes he is famous, but in UH EP there is nobody else besides him. If you compare volumes at UH vs CCF in a fib ablations, UH max 1/week with 3 EP fellows fighting for them, vs CCF 1-2/day at least). Who else in cards are well-known( besides maybe one in echo). Vs CCF you are talking about maybe 90 cards attendings(name a few, Topol/Nissen/Francis/Ellis/Yadav/Bhatt/Penn and counting, all nationally known) and UH (20 attendings at most now, compared to 45 five years ago).
Most IM residents at UH who finished 4-5 years ago will tell you the program was much better 5-7 years ago with robust clinical volumes, busy admissions, CICU admissions and busy cath labs. Now
card cath volumes are down to about 0-3/day now, little PCI going, no peripheral interventions, echo down to maybe 2 attendings reading them(sometimes no attending at all to staff echo readings, when they are out of town)-> these are all not encouraging signs for the hospital, let alone with no chiefs/PD's in cards now(also mentioned is the guy who contributed to Hurst-maybe few pages, but doubt that he
constitutes national reputation. Also Waldo does not write letters for all residents-> only one resident 3 years back is in San Diego doing fellowship because of Waldo).
Conclusion is, if you absolutely have no choice but do IM at UH/Case, then I guess you don't have a choice. If you have chances to go to top tier programs(e.g. BWH/MGH/UCSF/Duke/JHU/PENN)
or very solid programs (like Emory/UVA/UNC/Sinai/Columbia/Cornell) then by all means go and you will definitely have much better fellowship opportunities.

Frank,
Why do you say that Case is a community hospital? Is there not enough interesting pathology? Also, what is behind the trouble in Cardiology? My advisors think more highly of Case's residency program than CCF, as CCF is supposedly more fellow-run. What is your take on the Case vs. CCF debate?

 

[abu barney]

Case has a great IM program but I would just like to clarify about the CCF program which was mentioned in this thread.

I'm currently a third-year and strongly endorse the program (and have no incentive to do so other than I really think it's a great program--an I'm on the internet and bored). My colleagues are going to excellent places for fellowship. True, we do have to compete with the MGH/JHU crowd for cards fellowship at CCF, but our cards and GI match results are awesome nonetheless. For cards, our match list from last year alone (not selectively picking the good matches over the past 5 years, as other programs might try to pass by you) includes: CCF (2 residents), Stanford, Baylor (2 residents), Pitt (2 residents), Arizona (2 residents). 5/6 people got GI who applied last year and are going to places like CCF, UVA, UCLA, Temple, Wake Forest.

We have amazing faculty, excellent teaching and conferences, unmatched pathology (literally), and a pretty darn nice hospial which is rapidly expanding and a new medical school. The "fellow-run" comments that people throw around are a bunch of crap. When you're MICU senior, you run the show and get a boatload of procedures, too. The CICU is a little claustrophobic because of all the cards fellows, but these guys are also some of the smartest residency graduates period and happen to also be great teachers. If by "fellow-run" you mean that you don't get to operate the cath lab yourself, then you're right, but you probably need to adjust your expectations as a trainee. Also, many of my colleagues have published in top-notch journals and are really darn good at statistics and clinical trial analysis. If you're into this stuff (and it really helps to be into this stuff if you want to get a good fellowship) there is the clinschop program which gives you 3 months dedicated research time and you get one-on-one teaching with Peter Imrey, our brainy biostatician, who is awesome.

Cleveland ain't bad. It's grown on me over the past 3 years, but it's still fricking freezing to me in the winters. Summers are nice. Used to be a rich city, so lots of culture, excellent libraries if you have kids, and lots of nice parks.

Overall, I wouldn't go anywhere if I had to do it again. PM if you have questions.

-Michael Jordan, MD

 

[punjabiMD]

deleted.

 

[atsai3]

CCF is only known for fellowship(at least in IM specialities, cards for example Topol takes fellows from nothing but best IM programs in the country MGH/BWH/Stanford).

Topol really likes UVA alums. Sure, arbitrary, but he's Topol and he can do that.

-AT.

 

[KashiiYu]

My cousin's friend who did IM at CWRU and is now a cardiology fellow at Case said he has not heard anybody matching cards fellowship from Case to Stanford/Baylor/CCF in the last 20 years. He said for the last 2 years 4 Case IM residents did not match for cards fellowship at all. The majority matched at Case cards program. Few did match elsewhere (Henry Ford, Allgheny General, Metrohealth Cleveland). Currently, he said his division does not have a chief; Case is actively searching for a cardiology chief but is having a hard time because financial constraints. Also the cardiology program director just left recently. In the last few months, 2 electrophysiologists and 4 general cardiologists have also left the program. One affiliated cardiologist has killed himself recently and this was also on the Cleveland newspaper. My cousin's friend said on consult/echo months he usually has hard time finding attending for coverage. Also supposedly their cardiology conferences and teaching conferences are all run by fellows(i.e. fellows teach other fellows, not attending teaching fellows). During his recent cath month, he said they were averaging 2-3 diagnostic caths a day with only 1 operating caths lab(down from 2 operating cath lab and 10-15 diagnostic caths 2 years ago). Usually he and the interventional fellow have to fight for cases since the interventional fellow also is worried about case volume b/c numbers PCI's done at Case has been down 40-50%. Also the affiliated Cleveland VA recently switched the interventional cardiac catheterization affiliation from Case to Cleveland Clinic. Hence even though my cousin's friend still has CCU rotations at Cleveland VA and is technically the CCU fellow there he would have to call report to Cleveland Clinic and transfer patient to CCF for PCI if needed. He said too currently there is no cardiac transplant program at Case Western since both of their cardiac transplant surgeons have left and one more cardiothoracic surgeon is leaving too. My cousin's friend hopes his program can hire more attendings but he said it seems the IM chairman is having hard time recruiting young attendings to stay in cardiology. And last year they asked all 5 graduating fellows to stay on faculty but all of them flatly refused. 4 went into private practice and one went over to Cleveland Clinic to be attendings.

 

[punjabiMD]

My cousin's friend who did IM at CWRU and is now a cardiology fellow at Case said he has not heard anybody matching cards fellowship from Case to Stanford/Baylor/CCF in the last 20 years. He said for the last 2 years 4 Case IM residents did not match for cards fellowship at all. The majority matched at Case cards program. Few did match elsewhere (Henry Ford, Allgheny General, Metrohealth Cleveland). Currently, he said his division does not have a chief; Case is actively searching for a cardiology chief but is having a hard time because financial constraints. Also the cardiology program director just left recently. In the last few months, 2 electrophysiologists and 4 general cardiologists have also left the program. One affiliated cardiologist has killed himself recently and this was also on the Cleveland newspaper. My cousin's friend said on consult/echo months he usually has hard time finding attending for coverage. Also supposedly their cardiology conferences and teaching conferences are all run by fellows(i.e. fellows teach other fellows, not attending teaching fellows). During his recent cath month, he said they were averaging 2-3 diagnostic caths a day with only 1 operating caths lab(down from 2 operating cath lab and 10-15 diagnostic caths 2 years ago). Usually he and the interventional fellow have to fight for cases since the interventional fellow also is worried about case volume b/c numbers PCI's done at Case has been down 40-50%. Also the affiliated Cleveland VA recently switched the interventional cardiac catheterization affiliation from Case to Cleveland Clinic. Hence even though my cousin's friend still has CCU rotations at Cleveland VA and is technically the CCU fellow there he would have to call report to Cleveland Clinic and transfer patient to CCF for PCI if needed. He said too currently there is no cardiac transplant program at Case Western since both of their cardiac transplant surgeons have left and one more cardiothoracic surgeon is leaving too. My cousin's friend hopes his program can hire more attendings but he said it seems the IM chairman is having hard time recruiting young attendings to stay in cardiology. And last year they asked all 5 graduating fellows to stay on faculty but all of them flatly refused. 4 went into private practice and one went over to Cleveland Clinic to be attendings.

case has had a lot of residents for cards go to Rochester, and at least one a year to U Michigan for the past few years. Last year one or two went to CCF, and at least one went to BWH.

By the end of next summer there will be 12-14 new cardiology faculty as well, with an additional 5-6 to come soon after (including a new generation of up-and-coming researchers, one whom I personally know).

 

[punjabiMD]

Any thoughts on the quality of this program?

are you thinking of interviewing at Case? I highly recommend it. I personally think that it is an academically excellent, resident-friendly program. The facilities are beautiful, teaching is good, and research opportunities abound. Moreover, Cleveland, believe it or not, is a really darn nice place to live (with a dirt cheap cost-of-living), it has tons of cultural stuff to do and a great singles scene (if you're single!).

I knew nothing about the program before I interviewed, but my experience was just great. The dinner with the residents showed me how closely-knit they are as a group and how much fun they have (they have a "work hard, play hard" mentality)... and compared to other programs they seemed like a very happy and lively bunch. The program director and some of the other faculty are very supportive and are willing to go the distance for the residents, whom they place a high value upon.

See it for yourself, it's worth the trip. We all are looking for a personally "perfect" combination of academics, teaching, research, etc. and it's hard to get a feel for a program unless you visit it (or you rule it out based on hard facts, e.g. financial problems, crappy location, etc.). I think the program has a similar "feel" to both Brown and Strong (UofR).

PM me if you have more questions or questions about any other programs (I've interviewed so far at SUNY Upstate, LIJ, BI(manhattan), BU, CCF, Brown, UofR).

 

[sacrament]

What I'm taking away from this thread is that Case is either the dankest pit on earth, where residents spend their days playing with Legos in the cafeteria and getting stoned, or it's the Mecca of internal medicine, a palace of healing where God goes for regular checkups.

 

[KashiiYu]

My cousin's friend said however Case Western/University Hospitals of Cleveland IM program is very IMG friendly. Their IM program takes a lot of IMG's from the Middle-East (UAE, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt) and also from India, Kenya, and China. They also have a few American-born Indian IM residents who couldn't get into schools here and went back to India for donation-style medical schools. Also they have taken American residents from the Caribbean medical schools as well(e.g. Ross University). He said one of his friend from Kenya who is applying to Case Western/UH for IM(he did some post-doctoral work at a Case lab) has talked to the Case/UH IM program director and got a favorable response for a categorical position next year.

 

[punjabiMD]

My cousin's friend said however Case Western/University Hospitals of Cleveland IM program is very IMG friendly. Their IM program takes a lot of IMG's from the Middle-East (UAE, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt) and also from India, Kenya, and China. They also have a few American-born Indian IM residents who couldn't get into schools here and went back to India for donation-style medical schools. Also they have taken American residents from the Caribbean medical schools as well(e.g. Ross University). He said one of his friend from Kenya who is applying to Case Western/UH for IM(he did some post-doctoral work at a Case lab) has talked to the Case/UH IM program director and got a favorable response for a categorical position next year.

again, I'm somewhat confused by the information that your "cousin's friend" is providing. The current resident roster, I believe, has almost no IMGs. Since I am on the road, I don't have the information packet with me to verify (but once I get back home I surely will), but I remember checking specifically on interview day to see how many IMGs were listed.

 

[defendkba]

I don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but I thought I would put in my two cents. I just finished my residency at UH and had a great experience. I found the general medicine training fantastic with committed faculty and a great bunch of people to work with. Anyone who has gone to the pre-interview dinners will tell you that the residents get along well and are generally happy. It is true that the cardiology division is undergoing some major changes. Most of Frank Chen's comments seem to focus on the prospects of academic cardiology out of this program. If your plan is to be the next Eric Topol then this may not be your place, but if your plan is to get solid general medicine training in a great atmosphere with great fellowship opportunities (even with a struggling cardiology division only 1 person didn't get a spot, and some would argue he played his cards wrong) UH is a great program.

 

[sgupta]

I feel like there is a lot of misinformation in this thread - I would like to try to clear some of this up.

I am an actual resident in the program and I am extremely happy with the quality of training. I feel that I have a broad-based education in all aspects of internal medicine and I feel well prepared to enter fellowship. What makes Case such a great place is the collegial environment. It is a very academic place without being stuffy. People work hard but they help each other out and we have fun together. The program director is the greatest guy in the world and is extremely dedicated to the program. He would bend over backwards to help anyone of his residents. The facilities are world-class and the city is actually a very comfortable place to live.

I can't think of a single current resident that would share the opinions posted by Frank. Everyone I know is very happy here, which is why many choose to stay here for fellowship.

A few FACTS:

1) The Cardiology Program: Ther are many strong academic cardiologists at Case - current edition of Hurst's has 4 chapters written by Case cardiologists. The chairman is internationally known and is the editor in chief of a major cardiology journal. While the department is going through some changes now, it is not unheard for academic institutions to periodically overhaul a department in an attempt to make it stronger. The nucleus of the program is intact and I have many friends who are current fellows and truly value the experience. They are close to naming the new chair and they have had great candidates from world-class institutions among the finalists.

2) Success at matching into fellowships - almost every residents gets their first or second choice for fellowship. For the past 3 years, over 1/3 of each residency class has gone into cardiology (10-11 applicants per year) and only 2 people failed to match into a program. I know both of these applicants and there were personal reasons as to why this did not happen. One has already secured a spot for the following year and another is well on his way to getting a spot. We HAVE matched residents in cardiology at CCF, several to Michigan, Ochsner clinic, several at Case (all of whom desperately wanted to stay). You have to remember that at this phase of your life, many people have other considerations in picking a fellowship besides academics (i.e.- being close to family, spouse's job, owning a house, etc..).

3) IMGs - There are only a few IMGs here and most are extenuating circumstances. Some are prelims and the few categorical ones are at the absolute top of their class and are either American citizens who did their education in India or they have a personal connection to the program (i.e. - spouse).

For people that are reading this thread, I would advise you to consider the source of some of these comments. You should try to hopefully take more stock in a current resident's opinion rather than someone's cousin's friend or some disgruntled former resident.

 

[caseim]

For a faculty member highly involved in the residency at Case, it is a bit of an out-of-body experience to read the comments about the residency, which were forwarded to me by one of our current residents. Some of the comments are not accurate, and I would invite applicants to look at the Case IM Residency web site (www.casemedicine.com), which has lists of the plans of graduating residents (many going into highly competitive fellowships) as well as match lists, or talk to current housestaff or recent graduates. It is also interesting that the comments reflect some competition between Case and the Cleveland Clinic. The faculty involved in the residencies at the Clinic and Case have collegial relationships, and there is some cooperation among programs, as evidenced by the citywide PGY2 retreat on medical consultation planned for this spring.
We were surprised that an ex-resident named ‘Frank Chen,’ who did well as a resident, was not unhappy, and whom we enjoyed interacting with, would post such a message. Then we received the following email from Frank: “ I don't know who posted such slanderous e-mail under my name and I certainly did not write this and I am shocked to find out who has wrote such non-sense. I came to Case Western and the University Hospitals for their reputations from New York and for my years in Cleveland I felt I received very good training and guidance from all attendings including you, Dr. Walsh and Dr. Brozovich. It is because of the opportunity at Case I had the opportunity to work at Case physiology lab and had a productive year as well in basic science research. Hence no matter where I go I have told many people about the excellent hands-on training/didactics I received at Case. Hence, some ill-intentioned people likely have posted such slanderous message using the same name but I am not one of them. Why would I degrade my own program and I stress once again I am proud to be Case residency graduate and will always be for the rest of my life. I know for the fact in the past year while still in Cleveland someone has used my name and e-mail account for identity theft purpose on my bank account and hence I am in the process of changing to a new e-mail account. If these malicious individuals have tried to post these non-sense I apologize for the inconvenience it has caused for everybody and I am certainly as appalled and angry as you.
Sincerely,
Frank Chen
Apparently the post was a practical joke, a post by someone with an ax to grind but chose to use another’s name, or by a competitor.

I just finished IM residency there and I would not recommend anybody to go there. It is a community hospital(probably worse than average community hospitals) in disguise of a university institution. The chairman is a prick and thinks his institution is Brigham of Cleveland(though CCF looks at UH with complete disdain). At best you stay there to do fellowship(which FYI for cardiology, falling apart at this point, no chief/program director, dwindling attending numbers down to like 15-20 from 45 five years ago, average GI/other specialties, oh, big emphasis on ID if that's you want to do). Nobody of national presence to write reference letters(detrimental if you are applying to fellowship). This is not just my opinion, but also of many residents in the program. In case you are looking to do residency there, I would strongly advise you not to.

 

[caseim]

For a faculty member highly involved in the residency at Case, it is a bit of an out-of-body experience to read the comments about the residency, which were forwarded to me by one of our current residents. Some of the comments are not accurate, and I would invite applicants to look at the Case IM Residency web site (www.casemedicine.com), which has lists of the plans of graduating residents (many going into highly competitive fellowships) as well as match lists, or talk to current housestaff or recent graduates. It is also interesting that the comments reflect some competition between Case and the Cleveland Clinic. The faculty involved in the residencies at the Clinic and Case have collegial relationships, and there is some cooperation among programs, as evidenced by the citywide PGY2 retreat on medical consultation planned for this spring.
We were surprised that an ex-resident named ‘Frank Chen,’ who did well as a resident, was not unhappy, and whom we enjoyed interacting with, would post such a message. Then we received the following email from Frank: “ I don't know who posted such slanderous e-mail under my name and I certainly did not write this and I am shocked to find out who has wrote such non-sense. I came to Case Western and the University Hospitals for their reputations from New York and for my years in Cleveland I felt I received very good training and guidance from all attendings including you, Dr. Walsh and Dr. Brozovich. It is because of the opportunity at Case I had the opportunity to work at Case physiology lab and had a productive year as well in basic science research. Hence no matter where I go I have told many people about the excellent hands-on training/didactics I received at Case. Hence, some ill-intentioned people likely have posted such slanderous message using the same name but I am not one of them. Why would I degrade my own program and I stress once again I am proud to be Case residency graduate and will always be for the rest of my life. I know for the fact in the past year while still in Cleveland someone has used my name and e-mail account for identity theft purpose on my bank account and hence I am in the process of changing to a new e-mail account. If these malicious individuals have tried to post these non-sense I apologize for the inconvenience it has caused for everybody and I am certainly as appalled and angry as you.
Sincerely,
Frank Chen
Apparently the post was a practical joke, a post by someone with an ax to grind but chose to use another’s name, or by a competitor.

Frank,
Why do you say that Case is a community hospital? Is there not enough interesting pathology? Also, what is behind the trouble in Cardiology? My advisors think more highly of Case's residency program than CCF, as CCF is supposedly more fellow-run. What is your take on the Case vs. CCF debate?

 

[caseim]

For a faculty member highly involved in the residency at Case, it is a bit of an out-of-body experience to read the comments about the residency, which were forwarded to me by one of our current residents. Some of the comments are not accurate, and I would invite applicants to look at the Case IM Residency web site (www.casemedicine.com), which has lists of the plans of graduating residents (many going into highly competitive fellowships) as well as match lists, or talk to current housestaff or recent graduates. It is also interesting that the comments reflect some competition between Case and the Cleveland Clinic. The faculty involved in the residencies at the Clinic and Case have collegial relationships, and there is some cooperation among programs, as evidenced by the citywide PGY2 retreat on medical consultation planned for this spring.
We were surprised that an ex-resident named ‘Frank Chen,’ who did well as a resident, was not unhappy, and whom we enjoyed interacting with, would post such a message. Then we received the following email from Frank: “ I don't know who posted such slanderous e-mail under my name and I certainly did not write this and I am shocked to find out who has wrote such non-sense. I came to Case Western and the University Hospitals for their reputations from New York and for my years in Cleveland I felt I received very good training and guidance from all attendings including you, Dr. Walsh and Dr. Brozovich. It is because of the opportunity at Case I had the opportunity to work at Case physiology lab and had a productive year as well in basic science research. Hence no matter where I go I have told many people about the excellent hands-on training/didactics I received at Case. Hence, some ill-intentioned people likely have posted such slanderous message using the same name but I am not one of them. Why would I degrade my own program and I stress once again I am proud to be Case residency graduate and will always be for the rest of my life. I know for the fact in the past year while still in Cleveland someone has used my name and e-mail account for identity theft purpose on my bank account and hence I am in the process of changing to a new e-mail account. If these malicious individuals have tried to post these non-sense I apologize for the inconvenience it has caused for everybody and I am certainly as appalled and angry as you.
Sincerely,
Frank Chen
Apparently the post was a practical joke, a post by someone with an ax to grind but chose to use another’s name, or by a competitor.

 

[caseim]

four new CT surgeons, including two that do transplants, started 1/1/06

case has had a lot of residents for cards go to Rochester, and at least one a year to U Michigan for the past few years. Last year one or two went to CCF, and at least one went to BWH.

By the end of next summer there will be 12-14 new cardiology faculty as well, with an additional 5-6 to come soon after (including a new generation of up-and-coming researchers, one whom I personally know).

 

[orientedtoself]

Wow- that is disturbing that someone was stealing a real resident's identity to post those comments. This place is anonymous (theoretically)- there is no reason to steal an identity.

 

[DrNick2006]

Hmmm, this whole thread is fishy. Someone who seems to have at least some detailed knowledge about case (staff leaving, former resident's names) is bad mouthing it. The real Frank alledgedly has nothing but good comments to say about case. Its a shame that such comments can be so damaging to a residency program and that someone would do this malicously. I would be thinking law suit if Case could prove it adversely affected recruitment and could find who did it. I am a little bit schizophrenic about chosing a residency program and I know that this thread definently dampened my oppinion of case after my otherwise glowing interview and I would imagine that even though I tell myself that one thread on the internet is not good information case prob. moved one or two down on my rank order list just based on less of enthusiasm. Too bad.

Could Frank really be so silly as to use his real name and now once his home institution is calling him up has come up with some identity theft story (which seems a bit over done to be honest with you, come on Frank). Or is this really a thief of poor Franks good name?? We should take a poll.

IS FRANK REALLY FRANK OR A THIEF??

1 = ""Frank" is Frank and dumb enough to put his own name on his account.

2 = "Frank" is an imposter

I vote for .... 2

 

[raph91]

I agree. After going to Case, I left with a very good impression. After reading this thread, my opinion was dampened.

While the author may NOT be "Frank Chen" my feeling is it PROBABLY is another resident who graduated from the program and probably is in the same class as this resident or knows who he is.

This is one of the major issues with SDN and scutwork - everything is anonymous so you can't see if this is somebody who maybe got thrown out of a program or maybe somebody who didn't get a fellowship he/she wanted and is upset. Maybe Frank got the spot he/she wanted and they are now upset and taking it out on the program and Frank! OOOOOOO, the controversies abound!

I am happy that people from Case responded to this thread. It was needed and I feel it is good that they can respond to the specific issues presented.

I think Case is a very good place from my experience there. I defended it before but I can't argue not having done anything at CWRU and only being able to go off of what has been presented to me.

 

[caseim]

Not sure if this was done as a joke or to be malicious- but I am pretty 😉 sure it was not the real Frank Chen. Can't tell if it was "friend or foe."

Hmmm, this whole thread is fishy. Someone who seems to have at least some detailed knowledge about case (staff leaving, former resident's names) is bad mouthing it. The real Frank alledgedly has nothing but good comments to say about case. Its a shame that such comments can be so damaging to a residency program and that someone would do this malicously. I would be thinking law suit if Case could prove it adversely affected recruitment and could find who did it. I am a little bit schizophrenic about chosing a residency program and I know that this thread definently dampened my oppinion of case after my otherwise glowing interview and I would imagine that even though I tell myself that one thread on the internet is not good information case prob. moved one or two down on my rank order list just based on less of enthusiasm. Too bad.

Could Frank really be so silly as to use his real name and now once his home institution is calling him up has come up with some identity theft story (which seems a bit over done to be honest with you, come on Frank). Or is this really a thief of poor Franks good name?? We should take a poll.

IS FRANK REALLY FRANK OR A THIEF??

1 = ""Frank" is Frank and dumb enough to put his own name on his account.

2 = "Frank" is an imposter

I vote for .... 2

 

[caseim]

one PGY3 at Case is going to CCF for Cards next year- so Topol must think the Case program is ok.

Topol really likes UVA alums. Sure, arbitrary, but he's Topol and he can do that.

-AT.

 

[MISTERshortcoat]

Anyone that interviewed at Case can tell you that "Frank Chen"'s comments are complete garbage. Attempting to insult the PD is ridiculous. Dr. Armitage was easily one of the kindest PDs I've met. I'm not even from Case, but I definitely take offense to such slanderous remarks on someone so obviously friendly.

 

[atsai3]

Anyone that interviewed at Case can tell you that "Frank Chen"'s comments are complete garbage. Attempting to insult the PD is ridiculous. Dr. Armitage was easily one of the kindest PDs I've met. I'm not even from Case, but I definitely take offense to such slanderous remarks on someone so obviously friendly.

I would second the comment about Armitage. He's the greatest. I've only encountered him as a medical student, so take my comment strictly FWIW.

Cheers
-AT.

 

[Bzucker]

I first wanted to thank sgupta for clearing up some of the misinformation in this blog. I am a CV fellow at Case and completed my IM training at Case. I will not give Mr. Chen the credibility to discuss all of the "information" he so readily supplied. I do want to mention a few things about the IM program.

When interviewing applicants for the IM residency I tell all of them they should look for 2 things in a residency program:
1) Who is you advocate in the program? Without a strong resident advocate no matter where you go you will leave with a sour taste. Dr. Armitage should be the poster child for program directors. Not only does he ensure the educational experience is excellent at Case, but he is always there for the residents. Many times changing policies to accommodate a resident or in response to feedback from the residents. He is a true friend of the residents.

2)What is the quality of the housestaff in the program? During the 3 years of residency there will be a time when you need advice or help and you will need to rely on your colleagues( it even happened to me once). At Case they consistently select not only academically solid residents, but also residents who you would want to hang out with. It is a very tight bunch with great comradery. Almost everyone is willing to go the extra mile for his or her colleagues.
If anyone would like more details or to discuss the contents of this blog in further detail please feel free to contact me.

Good luck in the match.

 

[heshamsadek]

I have gone through PhD, IM and Cardiology at Case. By any standards, clinical, academic, teaching, research, training structure, support for residents/fellows, collegiality, etc.. It is a top program. I dont think we need to defend the Case programs or to convince anyone of the quality of training at Case. The only reason why the alleged Frank Chen wrote that is probably because he/she/it wanted to do cardiology at case but didnt play his/her/its cards right. So Frankie..or whoever you/it are/is, if you really want a cardiology spot that bad, this is not the way to get it.

I just finished IM residency there and I would not recommend anybody to go there. It is a community hospital(probably worse than average community hospitals) in disguise of a university institution. The chairman is a prick and thinks his institution is Brigham of Cleveland(though CCF looks at UH with complete disdain). At best you stay there to do fellowship(which FYI for cardiology, falling apart at this point, no chief/program director, dwindling attending numbers down to like 15-20 from 45 five years ago, average GI/other specialties, oh, big emphasis on ID if that's you want to do). Nobody of national presence to write reference letters(detrimental if you are applying to fellowship). This is not just my opinion, but also of many residents in the program. In case you are looking to do residency there, I would strongly advise you not to.

 

[orientedtoself]

I have gone through PhD, IM and Cardiology at Case. By any standards, clinical, academic, teaching, research, training structure, support for residents/fellows, collegiality, etc.. It is a top program. I dont think we need to defend the Case programs or to convince anyone of the quality of training at Case. The only reason why the alleged Frank Chen wrote that is probably because he/she/it wanted to do cardiology at case but didnt play his/her/its cards right. So Frankie..or whoever you/it are/is, if you really want a cardiology spot that bad, this is not the way to get it.

Can somebody who is currently at Case discuss the problems in the Cardiology department? This is of interest to us as applicants, because we may want to stay for fellowship. Thanks- o2s

 

[heshamsadek]

Can somebody who is currently at Case discuss the problems in the Cardiology department? This is of interest to us as applicants, because we may want to stay for fellowship. Thanks- o2s

What do you mean discuss problems? if you have a specific question I would be happy to answer it. If it is a problem that a cardiology department is actively recruiting a new chair, then half the cardiology departments in this country are having problems. Otherwise, what concerns you as a potential applicant is the quality of teaching and the volume, both which, as I mentioned in my earlier message, are top notch.

 

[orientedtoself]

What do you mean discuss problems? if you have a specific question I would be happy to answer it. If it is a problem that a cardiology department is actively recruiting a new chair, then half the cardiology departments in this country are having problems. Otherwise, what concerns you as a potential applicant is the quality of teaching and the volume, both which, as I mentioned in my earlier message, are top notch.

When I say "problems", I am referring to the loss of faculty. How many faculty members left, and why?

 

[heshamsadek]

How many, I'm not sure, maybe 10 or 12 over the past 6 or 7 years which includes those who left when the dept chair was changed the last time (about 7 or 8 years ago). This is pretty average, maybe even less that other academic programs. This has nothing to do with a "problem" in a program or department. There is a normal "shuffle" in any academic department for reasons like change of dept. chair, moving up in rank in other insitutes, moves to private practice (which by the way takes about 10-20% of faculty members nationwide, especially in high income specialties such as cardiology). As I said before, what you need to focus on when looking at a program is the academic reputation, whether or not the program is focused on teaching and whether or not the program is supportive of traninees. There are no "problems" with regards to any of these aspects.

I'll give you an example, the institute I moved to after leaving case is ranked one of the top 10 in the nation. In the past year alone, they lost over 10 faculty members in cardiology alone just because there is a new dept. chair, who is a great guy, but that has nothing to do with it. It is still a very strong dept. and they will hire stronger faculty, and it doesnt affect the training of any of the residents or fellows. So dont listen to Frankie and keep your eye on the ball.

 

[orientedtoself]

How many, I'm not sure, maybe 10 or 12 over the past 6 or 7 years which includes those who left when the dept chair was changed the last time (about 7 or 8 years ago).

heshamsadek, thank you for the honest response. The perceived instability of the cardiology department was one of my major concerns about the program, and I feel better about it now. It's hard to know what to believe on SDN. All I know is "Frank Chen" trashed the program online, and on my interview day I interviewed in the empty office of the chair of cardiology. It's good to know that the changes haven't affected the quality of teaching. o2s

 

[curres]

Any thoughts on the quality of this program?

As a current resident I have been following the Frank Chen thread, along with many of my co-residents. There is a lot of speculation about what sort of alienated and disturbed person would use another persons name to post this garbage (and speculation about who this really is). Obviously someone with a personal grudge for whatever reason, or a competitor playing dirty tricks.
I don’t know of any current residents who are unhappy they chose this program. The faculty are not perfect (are they anywhere?), but mostly are great and are much more open and approachable that the faculty at my medical school. There are many well know NIH funded researchers who are willing to collaborate on projects with residents, and my superb bedside teachers. There is great camaraderie among the residents (perhaps the fake Frank Chen missed that). This is my third year and the residents have done very well getting fellowships- including Cardiology. The program directors and Chief Residents are nothing if not supportive. The Chair is not always warm and fuzzy- but seems very supportive of the program, and is involved frequently with morning report, etc.
My medical school advisor told me to look at Case- as a top program without a competitive or cutthroat environment- and she was correct. From my days on the interview trail and from the people I know in academic Medicine- the only program in the Midwest that compared was Michigan- and as an OSU fan- I could not go there.

 

[curres]

As a current resident I have been following the Frank Chen thread, along with many of my co-residents. There is a lot of speculation about what sort of alienated and disturbed person would use another persons name to post this garbage (and speculation about who this really is). Obviously someone with a personal grudge for whatever reason, or a competitor playing dirty tricks.
I don’t know of any current residents who are unhappy they chose this program. The faculty are not perfect (are they anywhere?), but mostly are great and are much more open and approachable that the faculty at my medical school. There are many well know NIH funded researchers who are willing to collaborate on projects with residents, and my superb bedside teachers. There is great camaraderie among the residents (perhaps the fake Frank Chen missed that). This is my third year and the residents have done very well getting fellowships- including Cardiology. The program directors and Chief Residents are nothing if not supportive. The Chair is not always warm and fuzzy- but seems very supportive of the program, and is involved frequently with morning report, etc.
My medical school advisor told me to look at Case- as a top program without a competitive or cutthroat environment- and she was correct. From my days on the interview trail and from the people I know in academic Medicine- the only program in the Midwest that compared was Michigan- and as an OSU fan- I could not go there.

 

[curres]

As a current resident I have been following the Frank Chen thread, along with many of my co-residents. There is a lot of speculation about what sort of alienated and disturbed person would use another persons name to post this garbage (and speculation about who this really is). Obviously someone with a personal grudge for whatever reason, or a competitor playing dirty tricks.
I don’t know of any current residents who are unhappy they chose this program. The faculty are not perfect (are they anywhere?), but mostly are great and are much more open and approachable that the faculty at my medical school. There are many well know NIH funded researchers who are willing to collaborate on projects with residents, and my superb bedside teachers. There is great camaraderie among the residents (perhaps the fake Frank Chen missed that). This is my third year and the residents have done very well getting fellowships- including Cardiology. The program directors and Chief Residents are nothing if not supportive. The Chair is not always warm and fuzzy- but seems very supportive of the program, and is involved frequently with morning report, etc.
My medical school advisor told me to look at Case- as a top program without a competitive or cutthroat environment- and she was correct. From my days on the interview trail and from the people I know in academic Medicine- the only program in the Midwest that compared was Michigan- and as an OSU fan- I could not go there.

I just finished IM residency there and I would not recommend anybody to go there. It is a community hospital(probably worse than average community hospitals) in disguise of a university institution. The chairman is a prick and thinks his institution is Brigham of Cleveland(though CCF looks at UH with complete disdain). At best you stay there to do fellowship(which FYI for cardiology, falling apart at this point, no chief/program director, dwindling attending numbers down to like 15-20 from 45 five years ago, average GI/other specialties, oh, big emphasis on ID if that's you want to do). Nobody of national presence to write reference letters(detrimental if you are applying to fellowship). This is not just my opinion, but also of many residents in the program. In case you are looking to do residency there, I would strongly advise you not to.

 

[curres]

still lots of misinformation; there are now 4 new CT surgeons here at Case. One of the current third year residents is going to CCF next year in Cardiology. I am not aware of any residents during my time who wanted to go to Baylor or Standford. All this talk about faculty turnover- the most famous cardiologist at CCF has announced he is coming to Case (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/10/business/10topol.html?_r=1&oref=slogin; http://www.cleveland.com/frontpage/pdfs/friday.pdf); someone with an ax to grind for whatever reason is bashing the Case program, as a current resident I can say without question this is unfair).

My cousin's friend who did IM at CWRU and is now a cardiology fellow at Case said he has not heard anybody matching cards fellowship from Case to Stanford/Baylor/CCF in the last 20 years. He said for the last 2 years 4 Case IM residents did not match for cards fellowship at all. The majority matched at Case cards program. Few did match elsewhere (Henry Ford, Allgheny General, Metrohealth Cleveland). Currently, he said his division does not have a chief; Case is actively searching for a cardiology chief but is having a hard time because financial constraints. Also the cardiology program director just left recently. In the last few months, 2 electrophysiologists and 4 general cardiologists have also left the program. One affiliated cardiologist has killed himself recently and this was also on the Cleveland newspaper. My cousin's friend said on consult/echo months he usually has hard time finding attending for coverage. Also supposedly their cardiology conferences and teaching conferences are all run by fellows(i.e. fellows teach other fellows, not attending teaching fellows). During his recent cath month, he said they were averaging 2-3 diagnostic caths a day with only 1 operating caths lab(down from 2 operating cath lab and 10-15 diagnostic caths 2 years ago). Usually he and the interventional fellow have to fight for cases since the interventional fellow also is worried about case volume b/c numbers PCI's done at Case has been down 40-50%. Also the affiliated Cleveland VA recently switched the interventional cardiac catheterization affiliation from Case to Cleveland Clinic. Hence even though my cousin's friend still has CCU rotations at Cleveland VA and is technically the CCU fellow there he would have to call report to Cleveland Clinic and transfer patient to CCF for PCI if needed. He said too currently there is no cardiac transplant program at Case Western since both of their cardiac transplant surgeons have left and one more cardiothoracic surgeon is leaving too. My cousin's friend hopes his program can hire more attendings but he said it seems the IM chairman is having hard time recruiting young attendings to stay in cardiology. And last year they asked all 5 graduating fellows to stay on faculty but all of them flatly refused. 4 went into private practice and one went over to Cleveland Clinic to be attendings.

 

[curres]

😕 still lots of misinformation; there are now 4 new CT surgeons here at Case. One of the current third year residents is going to CCF next year in Cardiology. I am not aware of any residents during my time who wanted to go to Baylor or Standford. All this talk about faculty turnover- the most famous cardiologist at CCF has announced he is coming to Case (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/10/business/10topol.html?_r=1&oref=slogin; http://www.cleveland.com/frontpage/pdfs/friday.pdf); someone with an ax to grind for whatever reason is bashing the Case program, as a current resident I can say without question this is unfair).

My cousin's friend who did IM at CWRU and is now a cardiology fellow at Case said he has not heard anybody matching cards fellowship from Case to Stanford/Baylor/CCF in the last 20 years. He said for the last 2 years 4 Case IM residents did not match for cards fellowship at all. The majority matched at Case cards program. Few did match elsewhere (Henry Ford, Allgheny General, Metrohealth Cleveland). Currently, he said his division does not have a chief; Case is actively searching for a cardiology chief but is having a hard time because financial constraints. Also the cardiology program director just left recently. In the last few months, 2 electrophysiologists and 4 general cardiologists have also left the program. One affiliated cardiologist has killed himself recently and this was also on the Cleveland newspaper. My cousin's friend said on consult/echo months he usually has hard time finding attending for coverage. Also supposedly their cardiology conferences and teaching conferences are all run by fellows(i.e. fellows teach other fellows, not attending teaching fellows). During his recent cath month, he said they were averaging 2-3 diagnostic caths a day with only 1 operating caths lab(down from 2 operating cath lab and 10-15 diagnostic caths 2 years ago). Usually he and the interventional fellow have to fight for cases since the interventional fellow also is worried about case volume b/c numbers PCI's done at Case has been down 40-50%. Also the affiliated Cleveland VA recently switched the interventional cardiac catheterization affiliation from Case to Cleveland Clinic. Hence even though my cousin's friend still has CCU rotations at Cleveland VA and is technically the CCU fellow there he would have to call report to Cleveland Clinic and transfer patient to CCF for PCI if needed. He said too currently there is no cardiac transplant program at Case Western since both of their cardiac transplant surgeons have left and one more cardiothoracic surgeon is leaving too. My cousin's friend hopes his program can hire more attendings but he said it seems the IM chairman is having hard time recruiting young attendings to stay in cardiology. And last year they asked all 5 graduating fellows to stay on faculty but all of them flatly refused. 4 went into private practice and one went over to Cleveland Clinic to be attendings.

 

[sgupta]

For those of you out there still following this thread, there is an update regarding the cardiology department. Dr. Dan Simon, a national figure in cardiology basic science research and one of the premier interventional cardiologists in the country, is leaving Brigham & Women's Hospital to be the new chair of the Division of Cardiology at Case. He is considered a true 'triple threat' in that he is a leading basic science researcher, a superb clinician, and an excellent teacher. In addition, Dr. Jim Fang, a national figure in Heart Failure and the cardiology fellowship program director at Brigham & Women's is joining Case as well. Finally, Dr. Mukesh Jain, another outstanding Brighan & Women's cardiologist and a leading basic science researcher has also been named the director of the Cardiovascular Research Institute at Case, and will be setting up shop in a new, 10,000 sq. foot, state-of-the-art wing of the new research building at Case. The addition of these three cardiologists to an already impressive faculty will no doubt catapault this department into the upper eschelons of cardiology departments nationally.

Incidentally, despite the comments of 'Frank Chen,' or whoever he is, the intermal medicine department had one its most successful residency matches in recent history. As long as Dr. Armitage is at the helm of this residency program, I think it will be one of the best medicine residency training programs in the country for many years to come.

 

[DrRobert]

Didn't Topol leave CCF for CWRU a few months ago?

 

[DrNick2006]

yes