Case Western Vs. Mount Sinai - yes another thread

[exmike]

Another annoying comparison thread, but you guys on here have helped me out so much so who else can i turn to right?


Which school would you pick, Case or MSSM? For me NYC is a MUCH more preferable location, but my feeling is that I'll get a slightly better clinical education at Case and perhaps will be a little more competitive matching.

I really want to have my app process come to a end (closure), and withdrawing from the MSSM waitlist would definitely give me that. I just dont know which school is a better fit for me. Which school would you guys pick, all things considered?

Thanks!

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[SoulRFlare]

exmike...don't waver! there are only 8 or 9 of us after all! of course, you know what my vote is...

 

[personal jesus]

Make up your own mind!

 

[Adapt]

Drew/UCLA. I don't understand why you want to give up that opportunity.

 

[quideam]

What a tough question! They really are comparable schools. Personally, I don't like the idea of living in the middle of a crowded, loud, dirty city... ... so I guess I would say Case. But it's really personal preference. I don't think that you should get off the waitlist just yet, though - I know you really like Sinai, so hang in there for another couple of months...!!

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by personal jesus
Make up your own mind!

i will, im just harvesting opinions.

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by Adapt
Drew/UCLA. I don't understand why you want to give up that opportunity.

Stability, reputation, location (in the case of MSSM)

I'd vote for MSSM, even though it has had financial problems in the past and you would get a better education at Case, MSSM beats the s**t out of Case in location. All other factors I'd give Case the edge.

 

[quideam]

See, again with the location thing... this sort of reminds me of the Sinai vs. Pitt thread, and the NYU threads... I don't think that anyone actually believes that NYU or Sinai are better schools than Pitt (or Case, for that matter), but everyone is going nuts for living in NY. Exmike, if living the NYC is a huge deal to you, then hang on to that waitlist... coming from someone who has lived in urban mayhem, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Case IS a better school with a better rep. Enough said.

 

[linus]

i think the only people who can answer this question are those who've interviewed at both schools. seems like a lot of people have biases toward one of the schools, but unless they've seen them both firsthand, i wouldn't take those opinions too seriously.

 

[Jalby]

I personally believe that only people who have attended and graduated from both schools should be able to comment.

 

[juddson]

I've no opinion on the relative superiority of either school in terms of education, ability to place graduates well, etc. My guess is they are both solid.

That said, I lived around 115th and Amsterdam for two years and was very much ready to leave when I did. Opinions regarding NY differ. If you have lived in NY before, and you want to again, then nobody can argue with that. But if you have never lived there, then I think there is a 50% chance that you won't like (obviously, that means there is a 50% chance that you will - so who knows).

You are like me though. You want to withdraw just to get it over with. I have determined this is a bad impulse to have. Wait it out and see what happens. Visit both again if you get in and then decide.

Judd

 

[TheFlash]

MmmmmSSM in my biased opinion. We could be classmates.

 

[AD2020]

I interviewed at both - I got into MSSM and waitlisted at Case. I've definitely chosen MSSM because I'm a New Yorker and I loved the school on interview day. I would agree that Case does have a better national reputation, but MSSM is very highly regarded in the NY area - it has one of the best hospitals. So if you're looking for a residency in the NY area, MSSM might actually be better than Case.

My (also) biased opinion: Stick with MSSM and see what happens.

 

[kwanny]

yo, i might change my mind and go to case over emory... uh... so go to case.

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by Adapt
Drew/UCLA. I don't understand why you want to give up that opportunity.

maybe he hasnt withdrawn yet. if there was some good news coming soon, id strongly consider it as well.

but outside of that...case or mssm...
hmmm...ill need more time to think.

 

[meanderson]

If you would much rather live in new york than cleveland, I'd stay on the mssm waitlist. If you really like the cleveland clinic you can do an elective there your senior year. Match list quality for both of these schools is pretty similar, with the only difference being that more mssm students match in the new york area and more cwru students match in the midwest.

 

[exmike]

Wow, 17:17, the collective SDN community is as divided as I am!

great opinions thus far.

quid - yeah you're right, I DONT know if i'll like living in the city, I surmise it will be nothing like living in baltimore.

I guess I feel like I SHOULD go to case b/c its a little better, but then I'd be more happy locationwise at MSSM, and maybe i'd do better there as a result.

keep em comin!

 

[CalBeE]

Originally posted by exmike
Wow, 17:17, the collective SDN community is as divided as I am!

great opinions thus far.

quid - yeah you're right, I DONT know if i'll like living in the city, I surmise it will be nothing like living in baltimore.

I guess I feel like I SHOULD go to case b/c its a little better, but then I'd be more happy locationwise at MSSM, and maybe i'd do better there as a result.

keep em comin!

Mike, what's your interest in specialty? Mount Sinai is very famous for Geriatrics.

 

[SoulRFlare]

it seems that the biggest complaint lodged against case is the location. but it's med school. we shouldn't have time to worry if the city offers 100 different bars or 1000. the way i see it, the more exotic the location, the harder it would be to buckle down...alternately, if you are in a great location and are working extremely hard, you may feel guilty for "missing out" on all the city has to offer.
also, keep in mind that the cost of living in new york is substantially more than cleveland.
so, i still say go to case, although i am somewhat biased.

 

[TheFlash]

Originally posted by exmike
I guess I feel like I SHOULD go to case b/c its a little better

Says who, US News? C'mon, the rankings are negligible (24 vs. 28, are you kidding?) and so are the residency director ratings (3.8 vs. 3.6). IMO, MSSM is more widely renowned on the national radar than Case, just look at the places where people are matching. Case matches more into mid-Western locales versus Sinai students going to metropolitan areas on the East and West coasts. I really think that you should NOT pick between these schools based on any perceived reputation difference, because frankly, there aren't any.

Now the real question remains: Cleveland or Manhattan?

 

[exmike]

Calbs - if i did a specialty I'd do ophtho, and it case matched really stronlgy this year, not only in numbers but also where they matched (2x Umich, CCF).

Flash, yeah it seems that mssm has a better "national" reputation, but could the fact that case places in the midwest be because 60% of their students are from ohio anyway?

The most important thing for me after getting into ophtho (if i chose to do that) is to match in california, which I know is extremely tough. I wonder if sinai would give me a better chance with its rep vs. case. I'm pretty sure that case's rep in the mideast will give me a good shot at ophtho programs around there, if not nationwide.

Although I've never lived in the city, i'd imagine id like it there mre than cleveland, esp since i have many old friends in manhattan.

Still dead heat. comon guys!

 

[acab]

Have you received the financial award letter from Case?

I'd call MSSM and ask for an estimate. Fin aid is a huge factor for me. I would try to investigate how much MSSM is willing to give you before even thinking of "closure."

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by acab
Have you received the financial award letter from Case?

I'd call MSSM and ask for an estimate. Fin aid is a huge factor for me. I would try to investigate how much MSSM is willing to give you before even thinking of "closure."

given my parents info i doubt i'll get much aid from either school. since mssm has housing the budget ends up being about the same.

 

[CalBeE]

I almost got a feeling that Mount Sinai has historically had a better reputation. Since many residency directors are like older physicians that don't keep up with the latest ranking, Mount Sinai seems to be a safer bet.

And also, even many people in Case match very well this year, it may be an unusual year or it's just happen that many people this year are bright. A school's reputation doesn't just spike up in one year. If a school has consistently matched really well then it's more reliable.

 

[AD2020]

If everyone agrees that MSSM has a better national repuation (which I'm not sure is true), then definitely choose MSSM. You have that, its great reputation among residency directors in NYC and Boston, and its awesome location. I don't remember too much about the curriculum when I interviewed at Case, but I definitely got a better feeling from the students at MSSM. That's just me.

 

[ZephyrX]

Case Western has a fairly better reputation when compared to Mount Sinai.

Although Mount Sinai is strong in the northeast, it gets over shadowed by the local powerhouses whereas Case is one of the strongest midwestern schools.

 

[CalBeE]

Originally posted by ZephyrX
Case Western has a fairly better reputation when compared to Mount Sinai.

Although Mount Sinai is strong in the northeast, it gets over shadowed by the local powerhouses whereas Case is one of the strongest midwestern schools.

You can argue that Mount Sinai is overshadowed by Columbia and Cornell, but Case is also in a similar way overshadowed by Pritzker and Northwestern though...

 

[jjmack]

Originally posted by CalBeE
You can argue that Mount Sinai is overshadowed by Columbia and Cornell, but Case is also in a similar way overshadowed by Pritzker and Northwestern though...

you forgot the big bad Wash U. which itself is overshadowed by just being in the midwest.

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by ZephyrX
Case Western has a fairly better reputation when compared to Mount Sinai.

I was just about to make this statement.

 

[meanderson]

The fact so many people disagree about the rep differences between these two schools probably means that there is no clear rep difference. This isn't law school where everyone keeps track of whether one school is ranked 23rd or 26th.

Honestly I'm still not convinced that private schools ranked #16-30 match any better than most large allopathic state schools. Sure, schools like Northwestern, emory, and CWRU often have 5-7 people go into a certain specialty like ent whereas state schools may average 3-4, but that seems pretty likely to me that Northwestern would tend to have more >235 step 1 scores because they have more >34 mcat scores. A second factor is some self selection based on preferance as people who choose UIC over Northwestern know they don't want ENT or integrated plastics. I've spoken to a good number of 4th years who were about to go through the match or just matched, and the ones with good numbers(>230, AOA or close) weren't having problems matching into any field(save maybe derm which grads from any school will find hard)

 

[TRUE]

Originally posted by meanderson
I've spoken to a good number of 4th years who were about to go through the match or just matched, and the ones with good numbers(>230, AOA or close) weren't having problems matching into any field(save maybe derm which grads from any school will find hard)

I'm not sure anyone ever said you would have trouble getting a top residency if you have awesome qualifications from any school. If you are tops of your class or top 1/4 or so, you should fare relatively well. The question really is what happens to people who don't go to the top schools and aren't in the top of their class. Does going to a better school help you get a better residency if you're in this position. Personally, I think it would.

 

[ZephyrX]

Originally posted by CalBeE
You can argue that Mount Sinai is overshadowed by Columbia and Cornell, but Case is also in a similar way overshadowed by Pritzker and Northwestern though...

Midwest : Washington University, University of Michigan, Norhwestern, University of Chicago and then Case.

Northeast : Hopkins, Harvard, Penn, Columbia, Cornell, Yale and then schools like NYU and Mount Sinai. Furthermore i highly doubt that Mount Sinai gets an edge over NYU, Yeshiva, Boston University or Tufts when it comes to reputation within the northeastern states.

By comparison i would think that Case would be much stronger in the midwest than Mount Sinai in the northeast. And i am pretty sure that when it comes to overall reputation, Case wins.

 

[meanderson]

Originally posted by facted
I'm not sure anyone ever said you would have trouble getting a top residency if you have awesome qualifications from any school. If you are tops of your class or top 1/4 or so, you should fare relatively well. The question really is what happens to people who don't go to the top schools and aren't in the top of their class. Does going to a better school help you get a better residency if you're in this position. Personally, I think it would.

Oh I totally agree. But I think we have to look at the people who are choosing between schools like UIC and Northwestern. If you get into Northwestern and UIC, and you are the type of student who is going to want a top residency(two initially limiting factors), you should have enough confidence in yourself to do well on rotation evaluations and step 1. And I know that all US medical schools have plenty of top students and gunner-types, but I don't think 3.8/34 students who go to UIC are going to work very hard and then go pass-pass on medicine and surgery rotations and score 208 on step 1. Maybe if they only put forth mediocre effort, but then that's their decision.

My biggest issue with these threads is that students who go to non-top 30 schools and don't stand out to any great extent are all portrayed to be headed for an FP residency in Arkansas or left to choose between community IM programs. That's just not true. That's what students who go to Ross and SGU are choosing from. These "average" US students who go to non-top 30 US schools are matching into non-elite but solid academic programs(usually programs large enough to contain fellowships) in fields like EM, anesthesiology, and general surgery.

Keep in mind that the match rate for ortho has recently been running 80-85%. Is there some self-selection going on there? Perhaps, but I don't think this is true for the most part with somewhat qualified candidates. I think that if I was someone who wanted to do ortho and I preferred a lowe ranked school, I'd go there. If I was someone who wanted to do ortho and just had to do it at a top 15 program, then I would go to the school ranked #15-30 even if I liked the lower ranked school better.

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by CalBeE
You can argue that Mount Sinai is overshadowed by Columbia and Cornell, but Case is also in a similar way overshadowed by Pritzker and Northwestern though...

I feel like Case and pritzker and NU are more like peers whereas Columbia and Cornell really outstrip MSSM and NYU. Thus, outsie of UMich, Case students should match really well in the great lakes region (as well as the other two) and this seems to be the case.

Since i want to practice in cali, i guess national rep is more important, but if i cant match in cali, i'd rather get a great match in the great lakes region (which case may give me).

i guess the 50/50 voting trend means people thing they two are really evenly matched. gee, you guys are really helping me here!

 

[MDT]

Originally posted by ZephyrX
Midwest : Washington University, University of Michigan, Norhwestern, University of Chicago and then Case.

Don't forget Mayo!