azarep74

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So I am currently in a little bit of a pickle. My goal is to get into an MD program in the states and I am currently on the alternate list at my favorite MD school and I have been accepted to a DO school. I wanted to ask whether or not reapplying early with my stats will help me accomplish my MD goal or whether or not I should just bite the bullet and go for the DO (sorry for the cliche's here).

My stats are as follows: Postbacc BCPM GPA-3.79, CUM Ugrad BCPM GPA-3.38, Grad BCPM GPA-3.67; most recent MCAT 29P (10VR, 10PS and 9BS).
Two abstract publications in molecular, summer medical scholar, ugrad scholar, significant volunteer opps.

Oh, last year I applied late due to taking the MCAT in August. And I might be able to go back and complete a second year of postbac for the MA degree. Previoulsy I thought the cert. was good enough but now I am revamping that thought. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
Aza
 

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There have been several threads/questions regarding reapplying while having an acceptance in hand. Let me summarize:

1. applications will ask if you have matriculated to medical school before. Note: medical school - not allopathic, or osteopathic, but medical school.

2. From dictionary.com:
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
ma·tric·u·late Audio Help (mə-trĭk'yə-lāt') Pronunciation Key
tr. & intr.v. ma·tric·u·lat·ed, ma·tric·u·lat·ing, ma·tric·u·lates
To admit or be admitted into a group, especially a college or university.
3. So you would have to answer question #1 with a "yes."

4. medical schools in general frown heavily on people who had an acceptance and turned it down. They tend to feel it shows you're not really interested in being a physician.

So there's my information. Do what you will -- but make your decision armed with information.

For what it's worth, I was in the same boat two years ago. But I wanted to be a doctor, so here I am at the DO school (which happened to be my overall #2 choice). Would I make the same decision again? absolutely. Now is it possible to gain admission to a medical school after disclosing you turned down an acceptance? yes. Difficult, but possible. Be prepared to do a LOT of explaining.

Lest you think "I just won't tell 'em", if they ever found out, you could be kicked out for falsifying your application. Even two weeks from graduation. I wouldn't recommend this route.
 

gman33

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I would disagree with the above definition of matricultion.
An accepted applicant is not a matriculant, if you don't start school you would not check yes in that box.

Now for what to do.
Why did you apply to DO schools if you didn't want to go to one?
Not taking this acceptance may effectively close the door to future DO acceptances. If you are really uncomfortable with DO, than I wouldn't go, but realize you may be closing the door to becoming a doctor.
Your overall GPA and MCAT are below average, and unless the grad program you are in is a SMP, it's not going to do much to help you get in next time.

My advice is to go to the DO school.
 

lacesoutdan

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If an application asks you if you've matriculated to medical school, it very obviously means have you enrolled in and attended at a medical school. It's not asking if you were previously accepted, despite the bizarre definition posted above.

I don't know if you should turn down the DO acceptance, but if you do it almost certainly will not hurt your chances at an allo acceptance next cycle.
 

lacesoutdan

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Not taking this acceptance may effectively close the door to future DO acceptances.
No it won't. It will close the door at the one school you declined your acceptance at. No one else will know unless you tell them.
 

nlax30

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I would disagree with the above definition of matricultion.
An accepted applicant is not a matriculant, if you don't start school you would not check yes in that box.
You can "matriculate" without actually attending and/or registering for classes. If you've accepted an offer of admission then AMCAS considers you a matriculant.

Here's what AMCAS says in their booklet:

Previous Matriculation

You have matriculated as a medical school student if you accepted an
offer of admission and did not withdraw, or you registered for classes,
whether or not you actually attended classes.
Answer Yes to this question if you have ever matriculated into an
allopathic medical degree (M.D.) program at a medical school
regardless of country. Your matriculation status may not be
dependent upon registration, enrollment, or the
initiation/completion of course work. Check with the medical
school if you have any question regarding your matriculation status.
Failure to accurately answer this question will result in an
investigation.
The "wiggle" room is whether or not you actually accepted the offer, or whether you just received the acceptance offer and waiting to tell them yes/no.
 

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azarep74

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Thanks for the feedback from everyone. I don't think matriculation would be an issue as long as I withdraw my DO acceptance before applying through AMCAS. I am just trying to figure out whether or not reapplying early is worth it given my stats and given that my original goal was to get into an MD program. Maybe an SMP will make a difference in my application.
 

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Really, AACOMAS and AMCAS are totally separate application services so when AMCAS asks if you've matriculated before, according to their booklet, they're referring to MD programs from what I read. So may not even matter your "status" with DO schools.

In the end, your GPA isn't that bad. As always, bumping it up a little more certainly can't hurt, but I think you should also focus on getting over a 30 on the MCAT.

But, just like another similiar thread the other day, you'll just have to decide whether you want to pass up a current acceptance for the chance of applying again and not guaranteed anything. There are always people with great stats who don't get in just because of the limited number of spots so no matter what you score there will be some risk to applying again.

If you think that you just won't be happy with the DO then don't go. But I'd also question why you applied to DO schools if you weren't willing to go? Same applies to MD and DO, don't apply to a place that you wouldn't want to go to. In the end it's delaying your physician salary by another year.
 
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azarep74

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Really, AACOMAS and AMCAS are totally separate application services so when AMCAS asks if you've matriculated before, according to their booklet, they're referring to MD programs from what I read. So may not even matter your "status" with DO schools.

In the end, your GPA isn't that bad. As always, bumping it up a little more certainly can't hurt, but I think you should also focus on getting over a 30 on the MCAT.

But, just like another similiar thread the other day, you'll just have to decide whether you want to pass up a current acceptance for the chance of applying again and not guaranteed anything. There are always people with great stats who don't get in just because of the limited number of spots so no matter what you score there will be some risk to applying again.

If you think that you just won't be happy with the DO then don't go. But I'd also question why you applied to DO schools if you weren't willing to go? Same applies to MD and DO, don't apply to a place that you wouldn't want to go to. In the end it's delaying your physician salary by another year.
Thanks nlax. I really have no problem with the DO degree. I worked in clinical psychiatry for a while and my patients respected both the DO and the MD's. In fact the DO really encouraged me to consider the DO route and since I had a lot of respect for him and the MD route never materialized for me, I went ahead and applied to a few DO schools. What I did not like so much was that the MD's and staff at work did not really give the DO the respect he deserved. The only people who seemed to respect him was myself and my patients. In additon, I have received some negative feedback from my family about pursuing the DO degree. Although I tried numerous times to explain to my family that a DO is a physician and can enter into almost any specialty as long as they are board certified, they still say that a DO is a glorified chiropractor. This is really frustrating to me to the point of argument with my family every time it comes up. Anyway those are some of the issues that I have encountered. It does not change my end goal of wanting to be a physician. Thanks for your feedback. I hope I did not offend anyone in here DO or MD.
 

nlax30

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Thanks nlax. I really have no problem with the DO degree. I worked in clinical psychiatry for a while and my patients respected both the DO and the MD's. In fact the DO really encouraged me to consider the DO route and since I had a lot of respect for him and the MD route never materialized for me, I went ahead and applied to a few DO schools. What I did not like so much was that the MD's and staff at work did not really give the DO the respect he deserved. The only people who seemed to respect him was myself and my patients. In additon, I have received some negative feedback from my family about pursuing the DO degree. Although I tried numerous times to explain to my family that a DO is a physician and can enter into almost any specialty as long as they are board certified, they still say that a DO is a glorified chiropractor. This is really frustrating to me to the point of argument with my family every time it comes up. Anyway those are some of the issues that I have encountered. It does not change my end goal of wanting to be a physician. Thanks for your feedback. I hope I did not offend anyone in here DO or MD.
Ah, no offense taken of course. Understand about the family thing. In the end though, it will be your career and life.

Not trying to be picky here, but your above statement..... there is not a single specialty not available to you as a DO. Whenever I get questioned about DO "stuff" I make sure I'm very clear about DO's and MD's both being fully equal/licensed physicians in the US. Most of the time when it comes down to it the person/family member asking the question has been treated by a DO at some point and just didn't realize it. I also bring up the whole dental DDS/DMD degree thing and most didn't know that either.
 

DrMidlife

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If you don't want to be a DO, then don't be a DO.

By the time you graduate from med school, there will be 15-20% DOs in the physician work force, the rest of the old MDs who were in practice during the 1964 California DO debacle will have retired, and you'll hopefully have the perspective and backbone to not measure yourself by the opinions of strangers regardless of the letters in your degree.

What have you done to improve your MD app? An MA degree? That's good, but if you don't have a better MCAT score this time around, it's hard to see that you'll have different results.

As a reapplicant, you're expected to have a new set of LORs and rewrite your PS. I think of reapplying as a 2 year process. If you're under 35, another year spent preparing for med school is totally reasonable. So if you're going to reapply and focus on MD, I'd slow down and make sure you only have to apply one more time.

Best of luck to you.
 

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I don't see why anyone would put off med school for a year. Sacrifice a year of six-figure salary to MAYBE be an MD instead of a DO? No thanks.

I agree with you. I don't understand why people who think they know about something when they really don't. Every person who claims DO's are not doctors are the main ones who have never actually done any research about it, thus perpetuating the myth about DO's. I even get it still at my school.

OP, If you have done research about DO and you know for yourself that a DO is a doctor, then whatever your friends, family, or anyone else say should not matter to you. Because when its all said and done YOU are the one who will be a doctor not them. But the choice is yours. Also keep in mind if you are not really going to go to a DO school then go ahead and give up your seat to someone who is sure. I wish you luck on your decision.:):)
 

MJB

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Thanks nlax. I really have no problem with the DO degree. I worked in clinical psychiatry for a while and my patients respected both the DO and the MD's. In fact the DO really encouraged me to consider the DO route and since I had a lot of respect for him and the MD route never materialized for me, I went ahead and applied to a few DO schools. What I did not like so much was that the MD's and staff at work did not really give the DO the respect he deserved. The only people who seemed to respect him was myself and my patients. In additon, I have received some negative feedback from my family about pursuing the DO degree. Although I tried numerous times to explain to my family that a DO is a physician and can enter into almost any specialty as long as they are board certified, they still say that a DO is a glorified chiropractor. This is really frustrating to me to the point of argument with my family every time it comes up. Anyway those are some of the issues that I have encountered. It does not change my end goal of wanting to be a physician. Thanks for your feedback. I hope I did not offend anyone in here DO or MD.

I couldn't ever recommend to anyone to give up an acceptance to re-enter the crapshoot that is med school admissions. It sounds like you have a good idea of what it's all about (as long as your patients respect you and think you're a good physician, I don't think anything else matters really, does it?), but your family needs to educate themselves. Don't let their ignorance discourage you.

The only reason I could see for you to give up the "sure thing" is if you REALLY don't wanna be a DO, and if you feel that way, you shouldn't have applied DO in the first place.


On a final note...think about where you'd rather be a year from today...either finishing your first year of school or HOPEFULLY waiting to matriculate MD (no guarantees). I've never understood the mindset of re-applying 2-3-4 or more times when in that amount of time you could be well on your way to being a board certified physician.

Just my 2 pennies.
 

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My advice is to take the DO acceptance and run with it. The end result is going to be essentially identical, unless you are really intent on doing an allopathic residency in a very competitive field, in which case, your next move would merit some thought. Otherwise, it would be foolish to turn down the DO acceptance for a shot at an MD acceptance. To me, it seems like an unnecessary risk. Every time you reapply, you waste more time and energy; as you know, it can be very costly in many different ways, especially if you wage an unsuccessful campaign. Unless there is something you want that is outside the reach of your current situation, there's no reason to consider reapplying.

Don't worry about what others think; this is about you and what you want. Don't fall into the trap of trying to convince others. The only person that needs to be onboard is you. The rest will fall into place when you are clear what you want to do.
 

silas2642

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So I am currently in a little bit of a pickle. My goal is to get into an MD program in the states and I am currently on the alternate list at my favorite MD school and I have been accepted to a DO school. I wanted to ask whether or not reapplying early with my stats will help me accomplish my MD goal or whether or not I should just bite the bullet and go for the DO (sorry for the cliche's here).

My stats are as follows: Postbacc BCPM GPA-3.79, CUM Ugrad BCPM GPA-3.38, Grad BCPM GPA-3.67; most recent MCAT 29P (10VR, 10PS and 9BS).
Two abstract publications in molecular, summer medical scholar, ugrad scholar, significant volunteer opps.

Oh, last year I applied late due to taking the MCAT in August. And I might be able to go back and complete a second year of postbac for the MA degree. Previoulsy I thought the cert. was good enough but now I am revamping that thought. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
Aza
Okay, so you're not really caught between being a DO or an MD because you don't have an allopathic acceptance in your hand (yet). Right now you are facing the decision as to whether you want to go to medical school or not. You have an acceptance to a perfectly good medical school in your hand, and if you are intelligent, hard working, competent, humanistic, and compassionate, you will succeed and be able to enter any field of medicine that you choose. On the other hand, if you focus on the letters that follow your last name and let that define you then you risk never becoming a physician at all. That's where you stand-- it's whether or not you want to be a physician, not whether or not you want to be an MD or DO because if you throw away this opportunity you may never get it back again; quite frankly if you're foolish enough to throw away this chance you don't deserve to get it back again. And this is coming from an allopathic student.
 

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The burden of becoming a good physician rests squarely on /your/ shoulders. It's about how hard you're willing to try. It's really not up to what institution you go to--no institution can force you to become a good doctor. Likewise, the letters after your name will not make you a good physician, either.
 

dancinRN1022

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hello

I completely understand the family pressure, and really not wanting to have to explain yourself or your degree to people...DO sudents work just as hard as md students and i could imagine that it would become frustrating constantly having to explain what your degree is to other ppl and your family members...there are ppl/doctors out there who do hold some bias..not all of them but some of them do...and i think most of the ppl on this forum are right you really should have thought about that before you applied...

but you didn't...so now what??...in the end it is up to you...you are the one paying for school and your degree...if you really are going to be unhappy being a DO then don't take the acceptance...but if you can realize that in the end you are going to be a physician, making money, taking care of patients, and doing a job you love if you are either a DO or MD...then take the acceptance...

It isn't a sign of weakness and it doesn't mean he doesn't have a backbone if he doesn't take the acceptance...ppl have different reasons for not taking acceptances or withdrawing from schools....

before you do anything I would call the aamc and/or some md schools and ask them if this acceptance counts as being previously matriculated into school....
 

hum3a

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if waiting a year to get an MD acceptance (which isn't guaranteed) while improving your application is worth it to you then i'd wait.

its a tough decision.
 
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azarep74

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My advice is to take the DO acceptance and run with it. The end result is going to be essentially identical, unless you are really intent on doing an allopathic residency in a very competitive field, in which case, your next move would merit some thought. Otherwise, it would be foolish to turn down the DO acceptance for a shot at an MD acceptance. To me, it seems like an unnecessary risk. Every time you reapply, you waste more time and energy; as you know, it can be very costly in many different ways, especially if you wage an unsuccessful campaign. Unless there is something you want that is outside the reach of your current situation, there's no reason to consider reapplying.

Don't worry about what others think; this is about you and what you want. Don't fall into the trap of trying to convince others. The only person that needs to be onboard is you. The rest will fall into place when you are clear what you want to do.
I just want to thank everyone for contributing their thoughts and time to my current situation. The above message especially is a great piece of advice, almost timeless in a way because it will likely hold true for years to come.

As it stands, I am preparing for DO school and looking forward to the road ahead. One of the MD's at work had a profound way of looking at the whole applying to medical school process. I am paraphrasing but he more or less said that applying to medical school is the rate-limiting step and that once you get in there is no looking back. After that he told me to get going already. This was encouraging to me especially coming from a physician who has been in practice for over 25 years.

Thanks again for everyone's advice. Good luck to everyone else as well!
 

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Good luck to you too. Have fun starting med school. :thumbup:
 

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Although I tried numerous times to explain to my family that a DO is a physician and can enter into almost any specialty as long as they are board certified, they still say that a DO is a glorified chiropractor.
Minor point but you become "board certified" AFTER residency not before.

Yes, DO's can enter any specialty, even competitive surgical subspecialties..;)
 
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azarep74

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Minor point but you become "board certified" AFTER residency not before.

Yes, DO's can enter any specialty, even competitive surgical subspecialties..;)
Honestly if I thought board certification came before residency then I have no business applying to medical school because it assumes a serious misunderstanding of what the profession entails. I probably said it wrong but I meant board certification as in after residency training and once you receive a specialists salary. Sorry if I insulted your intelligence on that one.
 

Chuckwalla

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A lot of it depends on what specialty you want to go into. If you are completely dead set on dermatology, orthopedics, or plastic surgery then you might need to take the gamble. But if you are content with pretty much any other specialty then go DO.
 

TexasTriathlete

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A lot of it depends on what specialty you want to go into. If you are completely dead set on dermatology, orthopedics, or plastic surgery then you might need to take the gamble. But if you are content with pretty much any other specialty then go DO.
Are you sure you know what you're talking about? I mean REALLY know?

There are a small number of specialties that may be harder for a DO to enter, but the ones you listed really aren't among them.
 

MaximusD

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I don't see why anyone would put off med school for a year. Sacrifice a year of six-figure salary to MAYBE be an MD instead of a DO? No thanks.
TT I genuinely hope we end up having a rotation or something together. You'd make an excellent fellow accept-no-bull****ter on the floor. :thumbup:
 
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azarep74

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I decided to go for DO unless my top choice medical school calls me off the waitlist. Regardless of what happens though I am happy with my decision.

Good luck everyone! Thanks for keeping it real TT!
 

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When I checked Cleveland Hospital which is one of best hospital in the nation, I saw that there were DOs, US MDs and Foreign MDs all sorts of different backgrounds. I do not know how cleveland clinics hire physicians but it just tells me that the way to measure how good physician is how well he or she performs in the real settings.

I also have one bias as well. Those people who are so stuck up pursuing prestigious degree or places whatever, they actually end up becoming doctors who have low salaries. I am serious that is what my dad who is foreign MD told me.

When patients are urgent and sick, they will not have time to think about where her doctor went to for school.

I will be attending to TouroCOM New York and I am not scared at all and I am ready
 

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You have matriculated as a medical school student if you accepted an
offer of admission and did not withdraw,
If you withdraw your application, you would NOT be considered a matriculant!
 

TexasTriathlete

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I decided to go for DO unless my top choice medical school calls me off the waitlist. Regardless of what happens though I am happy with my decision.

Good luck everyone! Thanks for keeping it real TT!
Good choice. Get this show on the road. Good luck to you.