CCLCM (Cleveland Clinic Lerner) vs. Weill Cornell

[throwitaway321]

Hi everybody,

I'm trying to decide between these two schools and I'm really torn. I really really love both programs and their emphasis on research, so here are the basic pros and cons I have come up with thus far. I would really appreciate your opinion and any insights! I am interested, obviously, in academic medicine, research, and think I would like to do my residency in NYC in the future.

CCLCM Pros

• Extra research year to get a nice, substantive research project done
• Small class size (32)
• Great mentoring
• Access to Cleveland Clinic resources!
• Full-tuition scholarship (may have to take out some loans but not much at all)
• No grades/rankings

CCLCM Cons

• I got very excited about moving to NYC, and moving to Cleveland doesn't excite me as much (even though Cleveland is definitely an upgrade from where I live right now)
• Mandatory attendance and dress code (although I think this might be good for me lol)
• Lectures not recorded
• Harder to match into a NYC residency???

Weill Cornell Pros

• Incredible basic science and clinic research resources (Rockefeller, MSK, HSS, etc.)
• Got the opportunity to attend second look and loved the people I met.
• Maybe a better chance at a NYC residency???
• 6 months dedicated research time--this is quite a bit of time and it's still a 4 year program.
• Living in NYC would be AMAZING.
• Lectures are recorded

Weill Cornell Cons

• $260k+ in loans (ugh)
• Larger class size (100)
• Quizzes every week in first year and every other week second year (more of a traditional system--although this could be a positive)

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[shna2326]

CCLCM is an amazing program and you have a full tuition scholarship. I know Cleveland's a bummer compared to NYC but the difference in cost is 260k, probably more because NYC is so expensive. I think both med schools will set you up for an excellent residency, and coming from CCLCM you should have no trouble getting interviews outside of the Midwest, especially if you do away rotations and such.

 

[CCresearcher]

I will be matriculating at CCLCM this July, and while I generally think you can't go wrong with these choices, I will add that it's very important to be honest with yourself about whether the CCLCM curriculum is a good fit for you. I heard repeatedly from both students and faculty that the learning style is not for everyone.

If you think it'll work for you--great! It's an awesome school. But if not you have an excellent other choice. I just think it's important to keep in mind that it isn't worth saving the money if you don't think you'll succeed in a PBL/small seminar environment.

Good luck with your choice!

 

[throwitaway321]

I will be matriculating at CCLCM this July, and while I generally think you can't go wrong with these choices, I will add that it's very important to be honest with yourself about whether the CCLCM curriculum is a good fit for you. I heard repeatedly from both students and faculty that the learning style is not for everyone.

If you think it'll work for you--great! It's an awesome school. But if not you have an excellent other choice. I just think it's important to keep in mind that it isn't worth saving the money if you don't think you'll succeed in a PBL/small seminar environment.

Good luck with your choice!

Thanks for the advice! I actually really enjoy small group learning and PBL, but can also thrive in a traditional lecture environment as well (and I like having lectures recorded). I don't think the curriculum difference between these two schools is a big issue for me. Weill Cornell also does a lot of PBL and we actually did a mock PBL during second look. I loved it.

 

[citykid92]

Man that's a tough choice. I didn't apply to CCLCM so I don't know much about it, but these seem like hugely different schools (CCLCM seems super unique in its approach). Normally I suggest that people don't overly focus on money and go where they would be happier, which to me sounds like Cornell for you. BUT 260k vs. close to $0 is a huge difference, so I'm not sure. Know that you if you take the debt you will be able to manage it, but your QOL will definitely be affected at least initially. IDK. Two great options though. Good luck

 

[BlueberryPancakes]

CCLCM Cons

• I got very excited about moving to NYC, and moving to Cleveland doesn't excite me as much (even though Cleveland is definitely an upgrade from where I live right now)
• Harder to match into a NYC residency???

Weill Cornell Pros

• Incredible basic science and clinic research resources (Rockefeller, MSK, HSS, etc.)
• Got the opportunity to attend second look and loved the people I met.
• Maybe a better chance at a NYC residency???
• Living in NYC would be AMAZING.

Disclaimer: I'm on the waitlist at CCLCM.

The pros you listed for Cornell greatly outweigh the fact that Lerner is tuition free, and my quote above highlights why it's clear that you'd be happier at Cornell. Going to Cornell will give you a better chance at matching in NYC, and you'll obviously be happier there, from what you've written. Don't go someplace just because it's free and decide against a school (and city!) you'd be much happier at/in.

 

[watermelon master]

The pros you listed for Cornell greatly outweigh the fact that Lerner is tuition free, and my quote above highlights why it's clear that you'd be happier at Cornell. Going to Cornell will give you a better chance at matching in NYC, and you'll obviously be happier there, from what you've written. Don't go someplace just because it's free and decide against a school (and city!) you'd be much happier at/in.

I think it would be good to mention a disclaimer that you are WL'ed at CC

 

[BlueberryPancakes]

I think it would be good to mention a disclaimer that you are WL'ed at CC

If I objectively thought from OP's post that they would benefit more from CCLCM, then I would've recommended CCLCM. I have no ulterior motives, as I already have another great acceptance.

 

[watermelon master]

I think getting out of school with nearly $0 in debt vs. $260k in debt is a no brainer. Not only that, but we are talking about going to CCLCM vs. Cornell, two very good schools. OP, it's not like you are choosing between a very low tier where you will be miserable at and paying $0, but it will be at CCLCM!

Perhaps you should speak with some doctors who are currently paying back hundreds of thousands in loans, and ask them what you should do. Ask them to look back on their medical school choices, and if they were to choose the school which they liked less for $0, vs the school that they attended with 200k+ debt, which would they have chosen?

 

[CCresearcher]

I think getting out of school with nearly $0 in debt vs. $260k in debt is a no brainer. Not only that, but we are talking about going to CCLCM vs. Cornell, two very good schools. OP, it's not like you are choosing between a very low tier where you will be miserable at and paying $0, but it will be at CCLCM!

Perhaps you should speak with some doctors who are currently paying back hundreds of thousands in loans, and ask them what you should do. Ask them to look back on their medical school choices, and if they were to choose the school which they liked less for $0, vs the school that they attended with 200k+ debt, which would they have chosen?

So I picked CCLCM, and I do want to say that I absolutely LOVE the program, but it's worth noting that tuition free does not mean free! Students still have to pay the cost of living. The typical CCLCM student has ~$60k in debt upon graduation. That is a very small amount compared to the $250K OP is facing at Cornell, but it isn't zero. One should also keep in mind that the extra year of schooling means forfeiting a year of salary as an attending (since residency length will be the same no matter which school one attends).

I'm by no means trying to say that OP should or shouldn't pick CCLCM. I think that's a personal decision and OP will be fine either way. I did pick CCLCM (it was actually my first choice from the beginning) and I think there are a ton of reasons to pick it. But I don't think finances should be the ONLY reason

 

[watermelon master]

So I picked CCLCM, and I do want to say that I absolutely LOVE the program, but it's worth noting that tuition free does not mean free! Students still have to pay the cost of living. The typical CCLCM student has ~$60k in debt upon graduation. That is a very small amount compared to the $250K OP is facing at Cornell, but it isn't zero. One should also keep in mind that the extra year of schooling means forfeiting a year of salary as an attending (since residency length will be the same no matter which school one attends).

I'm by no means trying to say that OP should or shouldn't pick CCLCM. I think that's a personal decision and OP will be fine either way. I did pick CCLCM (it was actually my first choice from the beginning) and I think there are a ton of reasons to pick it. But I don't think finances should be the ONLY reason

Sounds like OP said they could graduate pretty much without debt, maybe they have reserve money to pay off their entire living expenses. I also keep hearing the saying that you lose one year of attending salary but that's spread out over a 30 year period. I think it means less than people say.

 

[throwitaway321]

Sounds like OP said they could graduate pretty much without debt, maybe they have reserve money to pay off their entire living expenses. I also keep hearing the saying that you lose one year of attending salary but that's spread out over a 30 year period. I think it means less than people say.

Yeah I have some savings to help pay for some of my living expenses (that's why NYC would be only about 260k, I'm thinking). Thanks everyone for your opinions. I really value them. I think I'm a lot closer to making a decision than I was this morning. I remember after my interview at CCLCM I felt like it was my absolute dream school. But then I interviewed at Cornell, and went to Cornells second look and fell in love with the school. I'm kind of sad I didn't get to go to CCLCMs second look, but I remember I really loved the people I met there and the curriculum.


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[MDToBe22]

Full disclosure: I'm on the alternate list at CCLCM.

If you really fell in love with Cornell after both your interview and second look, then I think those are solid reasons to strongly consider matriculating there. It's unfortunate that you weren't able to go to CCLCM's second look, because maybe that would've helped you to compare both the schools. But since that isn't what you're working with (what's the use in playing the "what-if" game?), then it's better for us to go off of what you wrote in your initial post.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you to pick Cornell just because I'm waitlisted at CCLCM (looking at you, @BlueberryPancakes). I will, however, say this. Your CCLCM pros are all valid– it's tuition free (albeit the fact that you will still need to cover living expenses), there are no grades, and you have access to a really great hospital; you'd get a great education and could probably match wherever you wanted, seeing that you did well on step 1 and 2 cs/ck. But I noticed that your pros for Cornell include your excitement/happiness about living in NYC. That, to me, would be the deal breaker. Both schools will give you a fantastic education and the training you need to become an excellent physician. But you have the chance to live and study in the city that you eventually want to practice in– that, I think, is something to strongly consider. You definitely don't want to be unhappy at a school and have second thoughts after thinking about what could have been.

Good luck with your choice. I was rejected pre-II at Cornell but it looks like an unbelievable place to go to school.