CCLCM vs. UW-Madison

[vagabondrunning]

I am fortunate to be in a position of holding acceptances to my top 2 choices this application cycle: CCLCM and University of Wisconsin-Madison. The choice may seem simple, but it really is not.

CCLCM gives full tuition scholarships to all (32) accepted applicants, so CCLCM clearly had the edge (for other reasons, too, of course) over UW-Madison, especially since I am an OOS student for the latter. I was shocked, however, to find out a few days ago that I also received a full tuition scholarship to UW-Madison. So, I'm in the position of choosing one of these programs without the need to really factor cost/debt into the equation. (Additional info: wait-listed at Hopkins, withdrew my application from Harvard post-interview, and accepted to Tulane, though I am not interested in attending there given my other choices.)

Curriculum
The curriculum is completely different when comparing these two programs. CCLCM, on the one hand, is primarily PBL in a seminar setting (groups of 8) with no grades, no exams, etc. UW-Madison, on the other hand, is lecture-style with pass/fail the first year and A/B/C/D the second year (IIRC). I don't like the idea of a graded system the second year at Madison. As a graduate student in the humanities with a bachelor's in both a social science and a natural science, I enjoy both seminary-style learning and lecture-style learning; however, I am not really sure what seminar style, PBL learning looks like for a field like medicine.

CCLCM is 5 years, and UW-Madison is 4 years; however, I plan to pursue an MA at both institutions so the 4yr vs. 5yr situation is somewhat irrelevant, though the master's degree would be covered by the scholarship at CCLCM and not covered by the scholarship at UW-Madison. I'm not sure, though, if this is really a deal breaker at the moment. CCLCM gives a free computer and long white coat to its students, but that's not really important to me in the grand scheme of things and not a reason to choose a medical school.

In terms of other clinical factors, CCLCM, I hear, offers privileges tantamount to interns in a lot of situations around the Cleveland Clinic (also, no grades for rotations, right?), but UW-Madison's placement of 3rd-yr and 4th-yr med students around the states for a total of 4-5 months means a lot more one-on-one interaction with Attendings in private practice, rural clinics, etc, which, I've been told, results in a pretty cool "hands-on" approach as opposed to being at a place with a LOT of attendings, residents, fellows, etc.

Research
Ultimately, I want to be a physician practicing at a teaching hospital for a number of reasons I delineated in both application essays and interviews, but without going into any detail and pertinent to this post, I want to both practice medicine and research/teach (the details of which are still murky). I'm interested in public health and medical anthropology research, and I have a strong affinity for the history of medicine and ethics. CCLCM seems more geared towards laboratory and clinical research, but it is possible to get degrees in either public health or bioethics, and they have some cool opportunities in medical humanities, too. Of course, I think the 2.5 months of lab-based research to start off medical school at CCLCM pretty cool!! UW-Madison seems to have a much stronger research emphasis on public health and a general multi-disciplinary approach to medicine in the context of public health (medical anthropology, medical sociology, etc), though I could always get a master's in med anthro at Case Western (though not paid for). So, both offer research opportunities and additional opportunities to study disciplines pertinent to medicine that interest me.

Rankings
Honestly, rankings and the name of the school don't really do a lot for me and are not really determining factors. Cleveland Clinic hospital is clearly a top-4 U.S. hospital, and UW-Madison as a medical school is top-22 or so in research rankings and top-10, I think..., in primary care (a pretty solid balance!). My guess is that I will probably "see" more at Cleveland compared to UW-Madison? Also, the population of Madison seems fairly homogenous compared to Cleveland. Both Madison and CCLCM have impressive match lists (as far as I can even comment on this process, which I really can't) in areas that I am potentially interested in (IM, EM... though that is always bound to change, right?).

City and People
I was not a huge fan of Cleveland in general, but I really loved Madison. I am an avid runner, and it seems like there is better areas for running in Madison compared to Cleveland, though the Emerald Necklace in Cleveland seemed nice.

As for people, I honestly had very pleasant experiences at both schools with interviewees, current medical students, and faculty! Both places seem like they have incredible people. CCLCM seems like it fosters a more intimate environment since there's only 32 students, and on interview day Dean Franco seemed to know everything about every medical student we passed. That was cool! UW-Madison, though, seemed like a less intimate environment than CCLCM, and the students I talked to said they did not really know a number of their classmates. On the one hand, all the attention a student gets at CCLCM seems pretty freaking awesome (!!), but it seems like it has the potential for that "I'm really being micro-managed" feeling (which I am not opposed to). On the other hand, it seems like one is far less managed at Madison and not forced to learn a certain way, which can be a good thing or bad thing depending on how you look at it. I'm neutral to both, which makes it difficult to choose which I would like more.

Miscellaneous
CCLCM students have access to all-things Case Western Reserve University, two mentors, the Cleveland Clinic hospital (amazing), etc. Madison students have access to all of Wisconsin to learn medicine, a lot more outdoor activities from what I can ascertain (again, I'm a runner), and the city (amazing).

Thankfully, I don't really have to decide until mid-April, but it's still a tough decision. Do any of you see something that I am saying or not saying that I might be missing? Honestly, I love both programs despite the fact that both programs are so different. Both excite me! But I can't attend both....

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[SN12357]

Congrats on having such wonderful options! The good thing is you can't really go too wrong.

One thing you don't really talk about much in your write-up but would be extremely important in my mind is the riskiness of what would clearly be the smaller, potentially more claustrophobic atmosphere at CCLCM. This is not a bash on the school--just an observation that in smaller groups things can go really well OR really wrong. In larger organizations there tends to be more room to find your niche and escape toxic interactions. So think about your personality and the type of social atmosphere you generally seek out; is the 32 person class and PBL at CCLCM going to feel stifling? How will you handle things if you don't like your class? DO you want the administration to know everything about you and your classmates?

I wouldn't want to be in a class size that small (and indeed, didn't even apply to CCLCM) or that closely scrutinized. But that is my own very personal opinion, and definitely does not apply to everyone. Many people clearly thrive in that type of environment.

 

[vagabondrunning]

Congrats on having such wonderful options! The good thing is you can't really go too wrong.

One thing you don't really talk about much in your write-up but would be extremely important in my mind is the riskiness of what would clearly be the smaller, potentially more claustrophobic atmosphere at CCLCM. This is not a bash on the school--just an observation that in smaller groups things can go really well OR really wrong. In larger organizations there tends to be more room to find your niche and escape toxic interactions. So think about your personality and the type of social atmosphere you generally seek out; is the 32 person class and PBL at CCLCM going to feel stifling? How will you handle things if you don't like your class? DO you want the administration to know everything about you and your classmates?

I wouldn't want to be in a class size that small (and indeed, didn't even apply to CCLCM) or that closely scrutinized. But that is my own very personal opinion, and definitely does not apply to everyone. Many people clearly thrive in that type of environment.

Thank you! It is something I have thought about. I am currently in a humanities grad program with about 60 people or so, which is bigger than 32, but still small. There are definitely pros and cons, and I am Facebook friends with a lot of the faculty and administration, so they know a lot about me ha.

I am looking for people to respond with their personal opinions like you have because it will help me think. Many thanks .

 

[Espadaleader]

I have a friend that is a current student at CCLM and I interviewed there and withdrew post interview. CCLM is a very different place. I know you get what I am saying. It's either going to work or
not. The scholarship and opportunity to do a funded second degree is phenomenal. I pulled because I am not
a fan of the attendance policy and dress code. My friend said that was a pretty big deal for students. I didn't think that was the case (I figured wearing a uniform and mandatory classes are worth the scholarship). After seeing the students at other schools without mandatory attendance for lecture and dress codes etc. I changed my mind. For one, having that flexibility allows you to take care of personal things easier and gives you more time for research, shadowing or just maximizing your learning.

That's my story and the reason I pulled out. I haven't been to Wisconsin, so I cannot comment there, but I know UW Madison has a kick-butt reputation.

Congrats on your options so far. You seem really invested in both schools. I think you should keep both options in play until the spring.

 

[Ismet]

Moving to school-specific discussions

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Sooooo I would be your classmate at CCLCM and also have degrees in the natural and social sciences, so perhaps I need a friend and I'm going to be biased here (oh yea, and I am from the Cleveland area, which may just heighten that bias a bit more...), but I'll add my two-cents about why I think CCLCM seems like such a great opportunity

1) Curriculum is very much about individual preference, but I'll go with the assumption that you have an interest in more than learning just the medical school curriculum (as evidenced by your intent to get an MA). As such, my friends at CCLCM (as well as at Case, which has a similar schedule) stress that they feel they have more time than their friends at other schools to pursue extra-curricular activities (which for some friends is just hanging out with friends, and for others is research, and one even has a separate job). I think for somebody that wants to be able to stay "well-rounded" or have a participatory aspect to their medical education, you cannot get much better than CCLCM (and no, I'm not saying people at other schools don't do research, or that UW would hinder you in this area, just that the Clinic seems to have been designed for students with such goals).

On the note of PBL versus lecture, while I think the PBL and schedule at CCLCM leave time for more individualized pursuits (that assertion based partly off some of the hearsay I just mentioned), I think that in terms of getting information for step 1 and whatnot, it's a wash (both schools have good pass rates, good averages, and good match lists).

2) Dual-Degress and Research I have spent several years focused in public health, and I wouldn't call either institution a powerhouse. That being said, Case is known as a great bioethics degree program, and Case has an institute for heath disparities (along with Metro, which does some work that could easily be classified as applied sociology in public health). The fact is Cleveland is incredibly diverse and there is a lot of public health work that is commissioned in the area (take a look at this profile for general info: http://www.healthy.ohio.gov/comprofiles/cuyahoga.pdf and then note that both the Cleveland Clinic and Case carry out Health Needs Assessments, which should exemplify the focus these institutions place on public health in the community).

As far as research more generally, I don't think you can beat the Clinic when it comes to the way they integrate it into the curriculum - not only will methods be disseminated didactically, but there is built in time to carry out research. Furthermore, the personalized mentorship that the Clinic provides, combined with a small and close-knit school, seems invaluable when it comes to placing students where they want to be. This sounds stalkerish, but if you were to look up some former CCLCM students on google scholar, or if you look at the CCLCM website under student achievements, you would see a plethora of publications/presentations - this really means little as it's up to the individual what he or she wants (and some of publishing seems to be luck), but it serves as evidence that research opportunities, and more specifically meaningful research opportunities are numerous should students want to grab them (disclaimer: no, I don't think number of pieces published is the best measure of meaningful research opportunities, but I'm just throwing it out there for what it's worth as I quickly type my thoughts - feel free to disregard).

3) Rankings don't matter much to me either. They're both well respected, though I imagine in the medical community the Cleveland Clinic is probably a bit more so (especially if you were to go into health policy where the name has been thrown around more). Overall though, I don't have much to comment on in this area, as both institutions are clearly good and in the end this probably matters least.

4) The city and people are actually awesome in Cleveland (I've never been to Madison, so I'll assume it's awesome and just use this time to write about why going to Cleveland would simply be equally awesome). People give Cleveland a bad name because it isn't a "brand name" city, but it's got places to go out downtown, in Ohio City, in little italy, on conventry, on top of Cedar Hill, in the suburbs (Lakewood Ohio was recently named one of the most happening, or some other funky title like that, suburb in the country), etc. Not to mention the world-renowned orchestra, art museum, and a popular music scene that sees many major artists come through (Bruce Springsteen has always claimed he has a special place in his heart for Cleveland, and who can argue with the boss) and places like the Grog Shop which feature up-and-comers.

As for running, I too am a runner (5k - half marathons, though perhaps much less seriously than you, especially as of late). It gets cold during the winter (as it would in Madison, of course), but I've never wanted for more nature.

5) One other thing that I sometimes think about is how amazing the Clinic really is. I'll be honest, I was brainwashed from a young age, but it is truly a unique medical institution. I know it doesn't show up on paper, but if you youtube "Cleveland Clinic" and watch some of the "about us" videos on their channel, it helps to show a bit about the culture of the institution. Perhaps I'm a bit of a sentimental sucker who is easily convinced by propaganda, but I'm inspired by the thought of being at such a place, and I imagine being in an environment where I am continuously invigorated will only make medical school that much more meaningful and enjoyable.

6) They have this video, which proves I'm a sentimental sucker but makes me love the place all the more

 

[Captain Sisko]

Go to Wisconsin. It was my first choice until they rejected me pre interview. City, scholarship, a great education and you can't go wrong. Plus if you decline cclcm they might accept me

 

[UW med student]

Hey OP, I interviewed at both programs and ultimately chose UW so I'm obviously biased but here were my thoughts as to why I chose UW.

Curriculum: the PBL format for CCLCM means you're put with a small group of your classmates and a moderator and depending on who you're put with this may be a great thing or you may hate it but regardless you have to learn a lot on your own. Yes we all as future physicians need to do this but I preferred a little more structure to my education to make me feel confident that I would swim instead of sink and be well prepared for step exams. Both schools have comparable pass rates and averages so I think it's more about self selecting for which style fits you. UW is a mix of lectures and small groups in the first two years with a focus on integrating all aspects of a topic (physiology, pathology, pharm for cardiology for example). I liked both that integration and the public health aspect as well as having lectures video captured and optional so that I had more options whether I learned better attending in person, watching the video, reading, just going to small groups or any combination.

Research: both programs have more research in any area you can think of than you will ever have time to participate in so I think you'll be fine no matter where you go.

Rankings: both are highly ranked programs, enough so that you can be confident it won't affect your residency opportunities in a negative way upon graduation. As you said CC is ranked higher for research funding but UW is also pretty well rounded for research and primary care rankings. We have an interesting mix on suburban, rural, and urban patient populations due to our diverse clinical sites that include Milwaukee so any ethnic diversity you see less often in Madtown you can make up for if you so desire. We have interesting Hmong and Amish populations as well as a good mix of bread and butter medicine with very complicated multi-system failure or organ transplant patients and rare pathology typical of an academic tertiary referral center. It seemed to me that CC certainly had many of these good points but lacked exposure to the rural population (correct me if I'm wrong).

City and people: definitely better running and outdoor activities in Madtown, hands down. Much safer too. And it's literally everywhere right outside your door, you don't have to commute somewhere to find it. At least half of my med school class are avid runners and bikers and we also have the two lakes that offer sailing and rowing. I personally love the lake shore paths which are gorgeous. As far as people I really do like my classmates, but it's also nice to have a class of 175 because you don't feel stuck with the same 10 people all the time. Especially if you find someone you don't get along with, you rarely have to see them and that just makes life better. I will say that CC is a wonderful place but dressing up to go to class every day seems like such a small thing at first, but it just sucks once you're actually having to do it. I pretty much wore pajamas to med school for two years. Yes we all have to grow up and wear real clothes for our future profession, but it was awesome while it lasted. For you this may not matter at all, but to each their own.

Misc: while CC itself has wonderful facilities, the actual classrooms/educational buildings for the med students were very old and gloomy. I hope this has been revamped since I interviewed there but I loved that UW has brand new facilities top to bottom. Lecture halls, discussion rooms, library, state of the art simulation center...all very bright and open. Seems stupid now but lightens your mood a lot during exam weeks.

Just my 2 cents, but seriously you will go to a great medical school and get a great education regardless so congratulations and good luck with your decision!

 

[QofQuimica]

Go to both second looks and choose based on gut feel. You really can't go wrong either way, and overthinking this the way you are is clearly not going to result in one "logical" choice emerging that is "better" than the other for objective reasons.

 

[vagabondrunning]

..... For one, having that flexibility allows you to take care of personal things easier and gives you more time for research, shadowing or just maximizing your learning.

That's my story and the reason I pulled out. I haven't been to Wisconsin, so I cannot comment there, but I know UW Madison has a kick-butt reputation.

Congrats on your options so far. You seem really invested in both schools. I think you should keep both options in play until the spring.....

Thanks, Espadaleader! Flexibility is important, you are correct. It seems like there is a lot of time for research and shadowing at CCLCM, but it is a unique environment. UW-Madison does have a great reputation! Thanks for your advice! I'm keeping a pros and cons list, and I've added some of the things you mentioned. I really appreciate it!

 

[vagabondrunning]

Sooooo I would be your classmate at CCLCM and also have degrees in the natural and social sciences, so perhaps I need a friend and I'm going to be biased here (oh yea, and I am from the Cleveland area, which may just heighten that bias a bit more...), but I'll add my two-cents about why I think CCLCM seems like such a great opportunity

1) Curriculum is very much about individual preference, but I'll go with the assumption that you have an interest in more than learning just the medical school curriculum (as evidenced by your intent to get an MA). As such, my friends at CCLCM (as well as at Case, which has a similar schedule) stress that they feel they have more time than their friends at other schools to pursue extra-curricular activities (which for some friends is just hanging out with friends, and for others is research, and one even has a separate job). I think for somebody that wants to be able to stay "well-rounded" or have a participatory aspect to their medical education, you cannot get much better than CCLCM (and no, I'm not saying people at other schools don't do research, or that UW would hinder you in this area, just that the Clinic seems to have been designed for students with such goals).

On the note of PBL versus lecture, while I think the PBL and schedule at CCLCM leave time for more individualized pursuits (that assertion based partly off some of the hearsay I just mentioned), I think that in terms of getting information for step 1 and whatnot, it's a wash (both schools have good pass rates, good averages, and good match lists).

2) Dual-Degress and Research I have spent several years focused in public health, and I wouldn't call either institution a powerhouse. That being said, Case is known as a great bioethics degree program, and Case has an institute for heath disparities (along with Metro, which does some work that could easily be classified as applied sociology in public health). The fact is Cleveland is incredibly diverse and there is a lot of public health work that is commissioned in the area (take a look at this profile for general info: http://www.healthy.ohio.gov/comprofiles/cuyahoga.pdf and then note that both the Cleveland Clinic and Case carry out Health Needs Assessments, which should exemplify the focus these institutions place on public health in the community).

As far as research more generally, I don't think you can beat the Clinic when it comes to the way they integrate it into the curriculum - not only will methods be disseminated didactically, but there is built in time to carry out research. Furthermore, the personalized mentorship that the Clinic provides, combined with a small and close-knit school, seems invaluable when it comes to placing students where they want to be. This sounds stalkerish, but if you were to look up some former CCLCM students on google scholar, or if you look at the CCLCM website under student achievements, you would see a plethora of publications/presentations - this really means little as it's up to the individual what he or she wants (and some of publishing seems to be luck), but it serves as evidence that research opportunities, and more specifically meaningful research opportunities are numerous should students want to grab them (disclaimer: no, I don't think number of pieces published is the best measure of meaningful research opportunities, but I'm just throwing it out there for what it's worth as I quickly type my thoughts - feel free to disregard).

3) Rankings don't matter much to me either. They're both well respected, though I imagine in the medical community the Cleveland Clinic is probably a bit more so (especially if you were to go into health policy where the name has been thrown around more). Overall though, I don't have much to comment on in this area, as both institutions are clearly good and in the end this probably matters least.

4) The city and people are actually awesome in Cleveland (I've never been to Madison, so I'll assume it's awesome and just use this time to write about why going to Cleveland would simply be equally awesome). People give Cleveland a bad name because it isn't a "brand name" city, but it's got places to go out downtown, in Ohio City, in little italy, on conventry, on top of Cedar Hill, in the suburbs (Lakewood Ohio was recently named one of the most happening, or some other funky title like that, suburb in the country), etc. Not to mention the world-renowned orchestra, art museum, and a popular music scene that sees many major artists come through (Bruce Springsteen has always claimed he has a special place in his heart for Cleveland, and who can argue with the boss) and places like the Grog Shop which feature up-and-comers.

As for running, I too am a runner (5k - half marathons, though perhaps much less seriously than you, especially as of late). It gets cold during the winter (as it would in Madison, of course), but I've never wanted for more nature.

5) One other thing that I sometimes think about is how amazing the Clinic really is. I'll be honest, I was brainwashed from a young age, but it is truly a unique medical institution. I know it doesn't show up on paper, but if you youtube "Cleveland Clinic" and watch some of the "about us" videos on their channel, it helps to show a bit about the culture of the institution. Perhaps I'm a bit of a sentimental sucker who is easily convinced by propaganda, but I'm inspired by the thought of being at such a place, and I imagine being in an environment where I am continuously invigorated will only make medical school that much more meaningful and enjoyable.

6) They have this video, which proves I'm a sentimental sucker but makes me love the place all the more

Wow, thanks for such a long reply, Seeinghowitgoes! After reading your comments, and knowing I will have a cool future classmates , it definitely puts a different perspective on things. I was reading CCLCMer's blog on Sunday for a few hours to try to get a feel for PBL and what a CCLCM student's schedule is like since we were not aloud to sit in on sessions during the interviews. I've put your response into a document on my computer and sorted it out by pros and cons. I think both schools will be great for research, but Madison might have the upper hand in terms of public health, especially since it is the only school to have both the medical school and school of public health fully integrated. Madison also was one of 13 schools recently awarded the Learning Health System Challenge and Planning Awards for innovation in medical education, research, etc. They also won the Spencer Foreman Award for Outstanding Community Service this year, and that kind of excites me because that means the school, the students, and the faculty are actively impacting and addressing the needs of the people in their state. That's really, really important to me. So many factors- as you mentioned, so many opportunities, though, for research at CCLCM and it is part of Cleveland Clinic!

Anyway, you have no idea how helpful your response is! Please keep in touch. Will you be at second look day in April?

 

[vagabondrunning]

Go to both second looks and choose based on gut feel. You really can't go wrong either way, and overthinking this the way you are is clearly not going to result in one "logical" choice emerging that is "better" than the other for objective reasons.

Quite right, QofQuimica! It most likely will come down to a gut feel. As you mentioned, I can't really go wrong with either school, which makes it so difficult!

Second look day for CCLCM, I believe, in April 3rd. For Madison, it's April 12th. It's going to be a stressful time since my master's thesis is due right around this time period, and I have to notify CCLCM of my decision before April 15/16 or something, so not much time to think after the Madison second look day.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Wow, thanks for such a long reply, Seeinghowitgoes! After reading your comments, and knowing I will have a cool future classmates , it definitely puts a different perspective on things. I was reading CCLCMer's blog on Sunday for a few hours to try to get a feel for PBL and what a CCLCM student's schedule is like since we were not aloud to sit in on sessions during the interviews. I've put your response into a document on my computer and sorted it out by pros and cons. I think both schools will be great for research, but Madison might have the upper hand in terms of public health, especially since it is the only school to have both the medical school and school of public health fully integrated. Madison also was one of 13 schools recently awarded the Learning Health System Challenge and Planning Awards for innovation in medical education, research, etc. They also won the Spencer Foreman Award for Outstanding Community Service this year, and that kind of excites me because that means the school, the students, and the faculty are actively impacting and addressing the needs of the people in their state. That's really, really important to me. So many factors- as you mentioned, so many opportunities, though, for research at CCLCM and it is part of Cleveland Clinic!

Anyway, you have no idea how helpful your response is! Please keep in touch. Will you be at second look day in April?

Glad I could help add a bit more for you to think about haha. I do agree that as far as addressing needs of the state from a public health standpoint, I can't imagine a state uUW doesn't offer more; I can imagine what a tough decision it'll be!

As for me, I won't be able to make it to second look (I'll be out of the country or I would definitely be there). If you've got any other questions you think may be worth asking to somebody from Cleveland, feel free to ask away. Congrats on your success thus far, and looking forward to continuing to chat regardless of your ultimate choice!

 

[solitarius]

I'd go to CCLCM.

 

[vagabondrunning]

Glad I could help add a bit more for you to think about haha. I do agree that as far as addressing needs of the state from a public health standpoint, I can't imagine a state uUW doesn't offer more; I can imagine what a tough decision it'll be!

As for me, I won't be able to make it to second look (I'll be out of the country or I would definitely be there). If you've got any other questions you think may be worth asking to somebody from Cleveland, feel free to ask away. Congrats on your success thus far, and looking forward to continuing to chat regardless of your ultimate choice!

I will definitely keep in touch! Are you definitely going to CCLCM?

 

[vagabondrunning]

I'd go to CCLCM.

Any particular reason?

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

I will definitely keep in touch! Are you definitely going to CCLCM?

Yep, I'm locked in to matriculate this July!

 

[vagabondrunning]

Another thing to consider, at least tangentially: I will need to somehow buy a car for CCLCM (according to the blue sheet of financial information that gave to us at interview day), but I don't really need one until 3rd or 4th year for Madison (and, then, only maybe). That's another bill that will cut into the COA. Glad it's not April yet .

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Another thing to consider, at least tangentially: I will need to somehow buy a car for CCLCM (according to the blue sheet of financial information that gave to us at interview day), but I don't really need one until 3rd or 4th year for Madison (and, then, only maybe). That's another bill that will cut into the COA. Glad it's not April yet .

Yea, I don't think getting around the area without a car would be easy in Cleveland (there are buses, but it would be quite a hassle getting to the campus early morning). While you may have noticed the Clinic is located on it's own campus, it's not like a traditional campus at many academic med centers (with housing literally right there - at least not housing that a lot of med students live in).

For me the cost of a car was only marginal given everything else (thinking intermediette to long run, though it's definitely a bit more in the short run), and not enough to overcome the other resources CCLCM promises that match up to my areas of interest (again that was just for me, even when compared to large state universities at equivalent costs). That being said, despite our similar situations in regard to the circumstances surrounding the decision (at least concerning our interdiciplinary backgrounds, potential desire for a masters degree, and some types of school options), I can respect different people are seeking slightly different experiences (and therefore types of resources) from their school which may tip the scale in either direction.

Continued good luck vibes your way leading up to your decision.

 

[vc7777]

I agree with Q - attend both second looks. We can hook you up when in town with one of our runners or crossfit guys or gals to take you out for a run, so you can decide for yourself what the emerald necklace is like.

You can't go wrong either place. I had a full scholarship to another well-ranked 4 year school - but it was a no-brainer for my personality. Obviously I'm biased.

A couple of CCLCM clarifications:
I spent every weekend my entire first year in another city three hours away with my family. Doesn't get more flexible than that.

For me, what the facilities look like is virtually irrelevant. However, to that criticism the new $80M medical school currently under construction will be opening in 2016. http://cwru-daily.com/news/case-wes...ic-partner-on-new-medical-education-building/ although it will be too late for your entering class to fully enjoy.

As for rural medicine - yes there is some exposure. We have a strong Amish population just east of Cleveland and remember that we provide tertiary care for large parts of Appalachia. That being said, we medical students are not directly involved in primary care of these communities but see them often when transfered to main campus. The clinic does have family health centers in some of these areas, but they are not really directly part of the CCLCM experience. My classmate, however, volunteered to do her obgyn and family medicine in a rural setting for this reason. The local Cleveland Clinic doctors put her up in the house nearby for many weeks and she had a very positive experience (she is getting an MPH and is currently doing research at the NIH in primary care).

As for your off hand comment about the medical anthro degree not being covered at Case - this is surprising news to me? Were you specifically told this wouldn't be covered?

 

[vagabondrunning]

I agree with Q - attend both second looks. We can hook you up when in town with one of our runners or crossfit guys or gals to take you out for a run, so you can decide for yourself what the emerald necklace is like.

You can't go wrong either place. I had a full scholarship to another well-ranked 4 year school - but it was a no-brainer for my personality. Obviously I'm biased.

A couple of CCLCM clarifications:
I spent every weekend my entire first year in another city three hours away with my family. Doesn't get more flexible than that.

For me, what the facilities look like is virtually irrelevant. However, to that criticism the new $80M medical school currently under construction will be opening in 2016. http://cwru-daily.com/news/case-wes...ic-partner-on-new-medical-education-building/ although it will be too late for your entering class to fully enjoy.

As for rural medicine - yes there is some exposure. We have a strong Amish population just east of Cleveland and remember that we provide tertiary care for large parts of Appalachia. That being said, we medical students are not directly involved in primary care of these communities but see them often when transfered to main campus. The clinic does have family health centers in some of these areas, but they are not really directly part of the CCLCM experience. My classmate, however, volunteered to do her obgyn and family medicine in a rural setting for this reason. The local Cleveland Clinic doctors put her up in the house nearby for many weeks and she had a very positive experience (she is getting an MPH and is currently doing research at the NIH in primary care).

As for your off hand comment about the medical anthro degree not being covered at Case - this is surprising news to me? Were you specifically told this wouldn't be covered?

Thank you so much for the reply!!! I believe they said that it would not be covered during interview day (IIRC), but who knows what will happen? It wouldn't be covered at UW-M anyway

 

[vagabondrunning]

Just an update for those who look at this post in following years, I decided to attend CCLCM for a number of reasons, and I am incredibly excited to start the program!

 

[ClevelandClinic]

Just an update for those who look at this post in following years, I decided to attend CCLCM for a number of reasons, and I am incredibly excited to start the program!

Congrats, awesome choice!