CCOM a sweatshop?

[alimarie81]

I've heard rumors that CCOM really overworks students (compared to other med schools, both DO and MD). Has anyone else heard these rumors? Yeah, med school is going to be hard, but can anyone validate this rumor?
When I interviewed at CCOM, all the students seemed really happy and laid back, not overworked and completely stressed out. Thoughts...?

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[HoosierDO]

hey there ali...ill be in your class next year, but I am currently a student at Midwestern and friends with lots of MS1's...i would say that the rumors are sort of true. We will spend the most number of hours in lecture (if you attend all of them) compared to most other schools, and in addition we will be testing extremely often...30+ exams throughout a 10 week quarter!!! But the students are happy, and part of that reason might be that the exams are not cumulative...you test more often over smaller amounts of material...so i guess we will find out how we fare next year!!! Looking forward to meeting everyone

 

[alimarie81]

Originally posted by HoosierDO
hey there ali...ill be in your class next year, but I am currently a student at Midwestern and friends with lots of MS1's...i would say that the rumors are sort of true. We will spend the most number of hours in lecture (if you attend all of them) compared to most other schools, and in addition we will be testing extremely often...30+ exams throughout a 10 week quarter!!! But the students are happy, and part of that reason might be that the exams are not cumulative...you test more often over smaller amounts of material...so i guess we will find out how we fare next year!!! Looking forward to meeting everyone

Thanks, HoosierDO, that sort of calms my fears. Our tour guide at the interview said that a lot of people don't go to class b/c the posted class notes have everything you need to study for the exams. Is this true? Personally, I would rather have more tests that are not cumulative than fewer giant tests that cover a whole semester (or quarter). My undergrad science courses at NU were like this as well. It makes the quarter go faster and I think you retain more b/c it forces you to study.
are you in a different program at MWU now?

 

[HoosierDO]

Hey there...i was an alternate last year and never had a spot that opened up...I was fortunate enough that the school allowed me to take classes with the PAs and Pharmacy students alongside the biomed students this year.

As for the notes...they give you everything you need to know in the notes...my class attendance this year was variable, and my grades stayed the same so...the answer to you question is...the notes are substantial, and you dont need textbooks per se...i bought some text books just because i often need to hear things in a few different ways

As for the testing...that can be argued both ways...as for speed...things fly by no doubt...as for retention...it allows you to focus on smaller amounts of info which is nice...but do we need to prepare more than other schools for boards? how much will we retain come 5th and 6th quarter...but that is the least of our worries right now!!! Im sure that we will be fine...and let me tell you that MIdwestern is a great place to be...the people are great, the profs are excellent and they are really there to stand behind their students...we are fortunate to have such great profs!!!

The weather blows...but you konw that as you are a chicago native, and the hospitals are excellent as well...so anyway that is my input at this point

I would love to get together with you and any other fellow Class of 2008'ers soon...we should do some planning...i know i plan on having a bbq at my place this summer...but we should do something even before that!!

tovah

 

[alimarie81]

BBQ sounds great, and a get-together before that sounds even better. Lets make a new thread for our "first meeting" once we have a few more students officially joining CCOM this fall
So, will you have to take anatomy with the MS-1-ers? I am already starting to freak about getting a good lab group!! They were crucial to my success in the labs (as well as my lab grades) in undergrad, and I am sure they are just as important in med school.

 

[BPlato]

Hi - I'll answer your questions as a current MS1. It is true that the workload is very heavy, and we do spend a lot of time in class. But it is manageable. I am very happy here and I don't know anyone that isn't. Don't get yourself too worked up - you'll be fine once you get here. Just have as much fun as you can now and relax.

 

[Eyecon82]

Hi everyone,

I will be attending CCOM this coming year as well. I'm very excited and nervous at the same time. Getting together before the year sounds great!! After going to UIC, i feel soooo disconnected with my other fellow students. I know CCOM will be different and for the most part, we will be one big 150 student family....

 

[daelroy]

I have friends at both CCOM and AZCOM and they are miserable. They are proud of their school. They commentt about the fine education they are receiving. All of them also acknowledge that they work incredibly hard and far harder than a lot of medical students they know.

The Monday morning exams are a bit ridiculous in my opinion. That essentially means you will never have a weekend in which you can relax and take it easy. I understand that each exam covers less material because it isn't cumulative. But exams are exams and they will stress you out even if it covers less material than ones presented in a block toward the end of the semester or quarter. That was a big drawback to both CCOM and AZCOM.

It doesn't make it any easier knowing that both schools LACK A TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE. Many schools provide both lecture handouts and note-taking/transcription service so you really aren't penalized if you miss class. From the CCOM and AZCOM students I spoke with, you can't completely ditch class like some are suggesting. Professors do provide information that aren't in the handouts. So it's not entirely true that you can skip class and study on your own. Most AZCOM and CCOM students attend most of their classes, and their number of hours in class is rather heavy so that's not saying much.

I would much rather have exams provided in a block so that I can actually enjoy a weekend or two, which I don't feel is asking for a lot in medical school. Even during a block schedule, you would give up many weekends as it is but to have an exam every monday morning is slave labor. That was a big reason why I decided not to attend AZCOM and CCOM.

Most of the students at both schools admit they don't study that much during the week for a variety of reasons. Many admitted that the long class time wears you out by the end of the day. Some admitted that they could get by with little study during the week. But all of the students I spoke with admitted that they essentially studied all day Saturday and all day Sunday with no breaks since the exam was the following morning.

 

[Eyecon82]

I disagree.....

I feel that block scheduling causes greater anxiety and stress than weekly exams. I am sure at first, it will be quit annoying to have exams every week, but we will get used to it pretty quick.

Whoever said you can't enjoy a weekend if you have a test every single monday? by having weekly tests, I feel it takes the anxiety out of test taking. This is because there will be a smaller interval of information on each test instead of a "block" of information. By having block testing, I feel that schools are kind of encouraging cramming. That is what we do when we dont have any test for 6 weeks and all of a sudden we have a whole weeks worth of tests at one time, right?. I rather spread it out and test little by little....and within a few weeks....it wont be a big deal to have a test on the upcoming monday.

 

[Eyecon82]

Also...i feel its a good thing that the exams are on a monday rather than in the middle or the end of the week......this is mostly because who wants to worry about studying for a test all night long when you just had 8 hours of class.....

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

Originally posted by daelroy
I have friends at both CCOM and AZCOM and they are miserable. They are proud of their school. They commentt about the fine education they are receiving. All of them also acknowledge that they work incredibly hard and far harder than a lot of medical students they know.

The Monday morning exams are a bit ridiculous in my opinion. That essentially means you will never have a weekend in which you can relax and take it easy. I understand that each exam covers less material because it isn't cumulative. But exams are exams and they will stress you out even if it covers less material than ones presented in a block toward the end of the semester or quarter. That was a big drawback to both CCOM and AZCOM.

It doesn't make it any easier knowing that both schools LACK A TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE. Many schools provide both lecture handouts and note-taking/transcription service so you really aren't penalized if you miss class. From the CCOM and AZCOM students I spoke with, you can't completely ditch class like some are suggesting. Professors do provide information that aren't in the handouts. So it's not entirely true that you can skip class and study on your own. Most AZCOM and CCOM students attend most of their classes, and their number of hours in class is rather heavy so that's not saying much.

I would much rather have exams provided in a block so that I can actually enjoy a weekend or two, which I don't feel is asking for a lot in medical school. Even during a block schedule, you would give up many weekends as it is but to have an exam every monday morning is slave labor. That was a big reason why I decided not to attend AZCOM and CCOM.

Most of the students at both schools admit they don't study that much during the week for a variety of reasons. Many admitted that the long class time wears you out by the end of the day. Some admitted that they could get by with little study during the week. But all of the students I spoke with admitted that they essentially studied all day Saturday and all day Sunday with no breaks since the exam was the following morning.

i don't know where you are getting this info....but it's way...WAY...off...

there is no need for a transcription service because 99.9% of the info is contained in the notes...... and yes people do study during the week....and yes you can skip class and study on your own...many students do that.....i myself only went to 1 biochem lecture last quarter and did very well.

i point all this out because the info you are providing is bunk!


it's cool that you want to contribute, but be careful what you post, because people sometimes actually believe what they read!

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

also....we don't have weekly tests...the only time this has occured is this quarter, and it's not so bad....

wherever you go, schedules are different and have their own positives and negatives.....

by the way daelroy.....where do you go to school?
from your wording, it doesn't even sound as if you are a med student. and if you're not, it's impossible to know what it's like until you are actually doing it.

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by SM-UCLA tech
i don't know where you are getting this info....but it's way...WAY...off...

there is no need for a transcription service because 99.9% of the info is contained in the notes...... and yes people do study during the week....and yes you can skip class and study on your own...many students do that.....i myself only went to 1 biochem lecture last quarter and did very well.

i point all this out because the info you are providing is bunk!


it's cool that you want to contribute, but be careful what you post, because people sometimes actually believe what they read!

I attend AZCOM and I know both of our curriculums are similar if not identical. You should be carefull about calling others information bunk. First of all, to suggest that 99% of the material can found in the notes is a bald-faced lie and a naive assertion at best. If that were true, people wouldn't bother attending class. And I can assure you they don't attend class because they merely want to hear everything for a second time. Professors provide information that aren't in their notes they hand out. This rare information can be the difference between an A and B on some exams. A transcription service isn't the same thing as power point handouts. Don't confuse the two. A transcription service involves a group of students that document the professor's lecture word for word. Therefore, you do have to attend class if you want to get A's. 80% of the material can be found in the notes which are handed out in class. Yes, many get by with just memorizing the handouts but 99.9% of the material isn't found in the handouts. If you are content with earning around the low 80's, don't bother going to class. If you want A's, that's a different story. It also depends on the class. You can skip biochem but you can't skip many classes like you imply. Midwestern isn't like some schools in which you can skip class and have nice and neat word for word notes laying in your mailbox the next day. I would also encourage you to be fair and unbiased when presenting information regarding your own school. It is true that many non-med students provide false information about a program based on hearsay. But it's also true that many proud medical students embellish the truth to defend their school from these attacks. And unfortunately, people believe your propaganda as much as they believe the harsh criticism of the school.

Regarding the weekly exams, it depends on your goals. If you are one of those students who is sole intent is to pass or simply earn 80% or higher, the weekly exams aren't bad. But if you are trying to get A's, it can be a very stressfull experience trying to gun for an A week in and week out.

 

[Claymore]

Speak for yourself and your own school. I am an MS-2 at CCOM and am happy to skip at least a third of my classes because, contrary to what you may think, all of the information is indeed in the handouts for many (but not all) classes. Perhaps it is different at AZCOM, but please don't comment on our school if you don't know what you're talking about.

I didn't go to Microbiology for 2 months last quarter and did fine. By the end of physiology last year, we were having around 20 people (out of 160) show up for class. I don't even know who our Epidemiology professor was. If we had a transcription service, I can't imagine who would care. There are a few classes that I do attend regularly, because the notes are in fact incomplete: Practice of Medicine, Psychiatry. In contrast, classes like Pathology and Micro are simply rehashes of the notes, and offer little benefit.

By the way, to dispel your other assertion, I'm ranked in the top quarter of the class with an average significantly better than the "low 80's".

MS-2
Midwestern University-CCOM

Originally posted by azcomdiddy
I attend AZCOM and I know both of our curriculums are similar if not identical. You should be carefull about calling others information bunk. First of all, to suggest that 99% of the material can found in the notes is a bald-faced lie and a naive assertion at best. If that were true, people wouldn't bother attending class. And I can assure you they don't attend class because they merely want to hear everything for a second time. Professors provide information that aren't in their notes they hand out. This rare information can be the difference between an A and B on some exams. A transcription service isn't the same thing as power point handouts. Don't confuse the two. A transcription service involves a group of students that document the professor's lecture word for word. Therefore, you do have to attend class if you want to get A's. 80% of the material can be found in the notes which are handed out in class. Yes, many get by with just memorizing the handouts but 99.9% of the material isn't found in the handouts. If you are content with earning around the low 80's, don't bother going to class. If you want A's, that's a different story. It also depends on the class. You can skip biochem but you can't skip many classes like you imply. Midwestern isn't like some schools in which you can skip class and have nice and neat word for word notes laying in your mailbox the next day. I would also encourage you to be fair and unbiased when presenting information regarding your own school. It is true that many non-med students provide false information about a program based on hearsay. But it's also true that many proud medical students embellish the truth to defend their school from these attacks. And unfortunately, people believe your propaganda as much as they believe the harsh criticism of the school.

Regarding the weekly exams, it depends on your goals. If you are one of those students who is sole intent is to pass or simply earn 80% or higher, the weekly exams aren't bad. But if you are trying to get A's, it can be a very stressfull experience trying to gun for an A week in and week out.

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

Originally posted by azcomdiddy
I attend AZCOM and I know both of our curriculums are similar if not identical. You should be carefull about calling others information bunk. First of all, to suggest that 99% of the material can found in the notes is a bald-faced lie and a naive assertion at best. If that were true, people wouldn't bother attending class. And I can assure you they don't attend class because they merely want to hear everything for a second time. Professors provide information that aren't in their notes they hand out. This rare information can be the difference between an A and B on some exams. A transcription service isn't the same thing as power point handouts. Don't confuse the two. A transcription service involves a group of students that document the professor's lecture word for word. Therefore, you do have to attend class if you want to get A's. 80% of the material can be found in the notes which are handed out in class. Yes, many get by with just memorizing the handouts but 99.9% of the material isn't found in the handouts. If you are content with earning around the low 80's, don't bother going to class. If you want A's, that's a different story. It also depends on the class. You can skip biochem but you can't skip many classes like you imply. Midwestern isn't like some schools in which you can skip class and have nice and neat word for word notes laying in your mailbox the next day. I would also encourage you to be fair and unbiased when presenting information regarding your own school. It is true that many non-med students provide false information about a program based on hearsay. But it's also true that many proud medical students embellish the truth to defend their school from these attacks. And unfortunately, people believe your propaganda as much as they believe the harsh criticism of the school.

Regarding the weekly exams, it depends on your goals. If you are one of those students who is sole intent is to pass or simply earn 80% or higher, the weekly exams aren't bad. But if you are trying to get A's, it can be a very stressfull experience trying to gun for an A week in and week out.

here here Claymore.......

Azcomdiddy......you don't know what the hell you are talking about. I am also significantly above your beloved "low 80's" as are others who routinely miss lectures.
In fact, the student with one of the highest gpa's in the class if not THE highest gpa is regulary missing from class.

I find it hilarious that you are at a different school and yet tell me what is contained in our class notes and on our exams. Nice try!

 

[alimarie81]

Originally posted by Claymore
There are a few classes that I do attend regularly, because the notes are in fact incomplete: Practice of Medicine, Psychiatry. In contrast, classes like Pathology and Micro are simply rehashes of the notes, and offer little benefit.

MS-2
Midwestern University-CCOM

So, which classes at CCOM require regular lecture attendance in order to do well:
Practice of Medicine, Psychiatry, anything else?
Which lectures besides Path and Micro can you take or leave?

 

[jay dub]

As a fourth year at CCOM I thought I would weigh in with my two cents...

I went to class most of the time first year, but that is largely because I WANTED to. Second year, I was almost no where to be found. I, too, have a GPA that was certainly above "the low 80's". As far as a transcription service goes, for current MS1s and MS2s - are you guys still doing notepool? We had notepool my first two years so we basically ran our own transcription service...

There's one thing that I think we are missing here though. It sounds to me as if some of the posters on here are looking for THE way to approach med school and what classes to attend, etc. I think one of the biggest challenges to the first few weeks of med school is realizing that there is NO one way to do things - there is no universal formula for success. YOU have to try things and find out what works for YOU. Try study groups, try studying on your own, try Joe's color-coded detail method, try osmosis; attend classes, skip a few classes. You have to see what works best for you and what is going to get you through school with your sanity intact. I think it's great to get advice from others who have gone on before you, but recognize that nobody can best speak to what will be the most important and work the best for you. That's something you will have to figure out. And don't worry; rest assured that you WILL figure it out. Just be ready to be patient with yourself.

Yes, there are frequent exams the first two years. My personal preference was for smaller, more frequent exams rather than larger block exams. But it is just that - personal preference. I think it was less stressful for me (especially once you get in the groove of med school and figure out how to work in the system), and I enjoyed PLENTY of weekends, even in the face of Monday morning exams.

Either way, by the time you get to the clinics and are getting ready to match (just two days!!!) the hardships of the first two years are a distant memory. It's all temporary, you know; the first two years don't last forever!!!

 

[alimarie81]

Thanks for the reality check. I have always been one to take on too much, and to try to do everything, so I am just interested in current students' methods of coping with the schedule. Good luck in the match!!!!

 

[Eyecon82]

In fact.....i hardley ever studied during undergrad...so I don't know how to approach the mass volume of material we need to be responsible for...

I think the most I studied was for the MCAT....but I followed TPR's structured study methods and that worked for me....

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not too good with experimenting with diff study methods....because I really don't study...I have been trying to prepare myself mentally for the hardships of medical school...but i dont know if that's enough...

Anyone have any ideas of how I should prepare myself for CCOM?

I've heard of many people trying to memorize pages and pages of the yellow book.....do you know if that helps at all?

Thanks for your input!

 

[jay dub]

Originally posted by WstSdDesi
Anyone have any ideas of how I should prepare myself for CCOM?

I've heard of many people trying to memorize pages and pages of the yellow book.....do you know if that helps at all?

Thanks for your input!

Are you serious?!?! What kind of a waste of time is it to study the yellow pages??? For Pete's sake... I think you got some bad intel, my friend. As I did not scour pages of names and numbers to prepare myself for med school, I can't say whether or not it would help, but it certainly sounds like bologna to me. I would prefer to see you relaxed, spending time with family, partaking in hobbies, enjoying vacation before starting med school. You will need to start studying once school starts, and you'll learn how to do it fast (it's amazing what you are capable of when given the situation).

The only advice I can offer to prepare yourself is the following:
Be ready to not be at the top of your class; I'm not saying you won't be, but you've got to get accustomed to the idea that this is a different ballgame and you won't necessarily be getting all 97%s on your exams (and *shocker* it's OKAY... ). Be ready to be flexible and patient with yourself. Go in with a good attitude, excited to meet new people and learn really great stuff (even if there's more of it to learn than you can handle). Also know that it absolutely is NOT POSSIBLE to learn everything there is to know about medicine or the human body. That's why doctors have textbooks and computers. Nobody out there knows it all. Go into it knowing your limitations. I also STRONGLY recommend having a hobby, something outside of medicine (preferably) to commit to and to keep you sane during med school. Something to do to remind yourself that there is more to you than being a med student, and that there is a whole world out there. It's easy to get consumed with med school, but personally I am SOOOOO glad that I strove for balance (in and out of school). Of course, I knew I wasn't going to go into ortho, ENT, or derm so I wasn't too concerned about graduating #1 in my class...

All you can do is your best (as my mom always says). The trick is learning to be happy with that...

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by jay dub
Are you serious?!?! What kind of a waste of time is it to study the yellow pages??? For Pete's sake... I think you got some bad intel, my friend. As I did not scour pages of names and numbers to prepare myself for med school, I can't say whether or not it would help, but it certainly sounds like bologna to me. I would prefer to see you relaxed, spending time with family, partaking in hobbies, enjoying vacation before starting med school. You will need to start studying once school starts, and you'll learn how to do it fast (it's amazing what you are capable of when given the situation).

The only advice I can offer to prepare yourself is the following:
Be ready to not be at the top of your class; I'm not saying you won't be, but you've got to get accustomed to the idea that this is a different ballgame and you won't necessarily be getting all 97%s on your exams (and *shocker* it's OKAY... ). Be ready to be flexible and patient with yourself. Go in with a good attitude, excited to meet new people and learn really great stuff (even if there's more of it to learn than you can handle). Also know that it absolutely is NOT POSSIBLE to learn everything there is to know about medicine or the human body. That's why doctors have textbooks and computers. Nobody out there knows it all. Go into it knowing your limitations. I also STRONGLY recommend having a hobby, something outside of medicine (preferably) to commit to and to keep you sane during med school. Something to do to remind yourself that there is more to you than being a med student, and that there is a whole world out there. It's easy to get consumed with med school, but personally I am SOOOOO glad that I strove for balance (in and out of school). Of course, I knew I wasn't going to go into ortho, ENT, or derm so I wasn't too concerned about graduating #1 in my class...

All you can do is your best (as my mom always says). The trick is learning to be happy with that...

Bravo.....this is probably the best advice anyone could give to someone. I'm a self-admitted gunner but I am fine if I'm not at the top of my class. I gun for the very best but I will settle for anything.

You have to go in with that attitude because there is a lot of luck and randomness to medical school. You can't guarantee anything in medical school whether you are talking about exams or USMLE scores.

This mentality has helped me a lot. Sometimes, if you get so grade conscious and competitive, you freeze up due to the incredible amount of stress you put on yourself. Then you don't do anything because you are so worried. Just focus on not getting behind and doing the little things everyday. If you wind up with an 80% so be it. If you wind up at the top of your class, that is amazing.

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by SM-UCLA tech
here here Claymore.......

Azcomdiddy......you don't know what the hell you are talking about. I am also significantly above your beloved "low 80's" as are others who routinely miss lectures.
!

Low 80's was a polite way of saying PASSING since our schools are notorious for grade inflation so don't feel special that you are above "low 80's". Most people in our class are averaging close to an 87%. And remember genius that we have the same system, class schedule, exam schedule, President, Dean of Basic Sciences.... hence the name MIDWESTERN. Does that name ring a bell? Hmmmm....Midwestern....go figure!

 

[Eyecon82]

Yea...i was wondering what's wrong with these people memorizing yellow pages.....

That's why i asked before i went out and did something stupid like that....

I guess it could serve the purpose of knowing your memorization limits.....

 

[Mixmaster]

DO you guys think that the average is really 87? That is pretty high. I dont know that many people in anatomy/physio with scores in that range. DO you?

 

[DoubleImage]

azcomdiddy- we might have the same dean of basic sciences and have the same classes/exam schedule- where I have a hard time believing your class average is 87%, you can't make the same assumptions about two schools- we do not take the same exams, and as far as practicals we don't even get graded the same. Both of which greatly varies the class percentage. I just don't see your arguement.

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

i agree......grade inflation is new to me. i have never heard that one around here. the class avg. is no where near 87 in our class.

azcomdiddy should stick to speaking about azcom. because he/she obviously is throwing out incorrect info about ccom.

 

[BPlato]

I have 2 words about grade inflation here:


Doctor Allin

 

[stwei]

Wonderful posting - this definitely gives me some new insights about a school I gave up on a while ago.
I was just going to put a posting asking which school people would attend if they had to retain their knowledge for two years. The thing that got me to question midwestern was my disappointing experience with a student advisor who misled me on a lame goose ride when I emailed him to inquire about possible research opportunities. His evasive - "We have a lot of research here." immediately got me suspicious, but I kept probing, asking him to please be more specific . After 4 weeks of arduous waiting I finally received another reply, namely that a number of faculty members did research and that I should check out their websites. None of the websites I searched for contained anything about research. Having visited the school on a Saturday, and seeing that it looked more like a condo village rather than a campus - a pretty dead place, I decided that perhaps it's not a good place to stay at after all. Your statement that students there are worked like slaves at a sweatshop comes as a shocking surprise to me.

 

[CTashby]

Of course its dead here at ccom on the weekends. After sitting through lectures all day every day, people want to get the hell out of here. The only inhabitants on the weekend are the people that live in the library, and of course the geese. Really though, this is just a theory of mine because I do not come in on weekends. as far as i know, on saturday and sunday Dean Nichols brings in a circus with lion, tigers and a freak show with teen pop stars putting on shows in the library. well, i suppose it could happen.

In any case, i've very much enjoyed my time spent here at ccom. i didn't realize that we were seen as a sweatshop. I mean, they told me i had to make those shirts if i ever wanted to graduate but i just thought it was part of the curriculum.

but seriously, i thought this is just the way medschool is everywhere. Not true? am i learning more than i should be? I'd hate to be putting more in my head that is required since there's such a limited amount of space.

so i love ccom. the proffessors are wonderful, the people are great, and i'm learning something worthwhile (unlike undergrad). I study probably not as much as i could, and definitely not as much as others. in fact, I'm going to see a movie tonight with my soon to be wife.

Use your own study methods. the first semester is pretty easy and should give you a chance to settle in and get the hang of things. more important than anything else. don't panic.

casey