kuyaaa09

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I am a third year DO student and very interested in Anesthesia. I rank in the upper 10% of my class after second year. I scored 570 in COMLEX 1. I had a research duding the summer of my freshman year. No USMLE yet. What are my chances in Anesthesia? Do I need to take USMLE?
 
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I am a third year DO student and very interested in Anesthesia. I rank in the upper 10% of my class after second year. I scored 570 in COMLEX 1. I had a research duding the summer of my freshman year. No USMLE yet. What are my chances in Anesthesia? Do I need to take USMLE?
Take USMLE

Also, take a look at the Anesthesia forum and look for the "Application thread" for last two yrs.

Source: Current Anesthesia applicant
 
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AlbinoHawk DO

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AOA anesthesia should be no problem. Only take USMLE if you feel confident
 
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Reveler

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AOA anesthesia should be no problem. Only take USMLE if you feel confident
AOA anesthesia won't be a thing in a few years. Not sure many of the current programs will apply for Osteopathic Recognition when there's nothing "osteopathic" about the anesthesia specialty. If you want to be competitive, take USMLE. Sure, most programs "take" COMLEX, but they don't know how to use it to compare to other applicants when most (if not all of them) are submitting USMLE scores with their apps. As a DO applicant, you have to do everything possible to highlight your app among the mound of MD applicants. Not having a USMLE score sure highlights your app, but not in a good way.
 

Shov

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I'd take step 2, it will open many doors if you perform well.
 

AlbinoHawk DO

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AOA anesthesia won't be a thing in a few years. Not sure many of the current programs will apply for Osteopathic Recognition when there's nothing "osteopathic" about the anesthesia specialty. If you want to be competitive, take USMLE. Sure, most programs "take" COMLEX, but they don't know how to use it to compare to other applicants when most (if not all of them) are submitting USMLE scores with their apps. As a DO applicant, you have to do everything possible to highlight your app among the mound of MD applicants. Not having a USMLE score sure highlights your app, but not in a good way.
Irrelevant. He's a 3rd year. There will AOA anesthesia next year.

If his knowledge has decayed and he can't study for USMLE effectively, taking the USMLE can kill all his chances to do anesthesia. The conversation of USMLE must happen prior to third year.
 

Neopolymath

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An AOA residency in this specialty will affect your competitiveness for jobs. It is a weird field in that regard.
 

BorntobeDO?

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An AOA residency in this specialty will affect your competitiveness for jobs. It is a weird field in that regard.
1st job maybe, but in rural areas not an issue. And with experience the amount people will care will decrease greatly.
 

Reveler

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Taking USMLE is a must. I'm still blown away when people advise people in these forums NOT to take USMLE. If he scores >220, then he's in a good position for ACGME anesthesia, and he doesn't have to worry about programs putting him on the back burner. Even if he takes Step 1 and performs poorly, then he can still opt to not include that score with his application. In that sense, there's no such thing as "USMLE killing his chances".

AOA programs must switch over within the next few years, and no one knows that the next few years will look like. Simply assuming the 8 AOA programs will still exist next year isn't a solid plan.
 

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Taking USMLE is a must. I'm still blown away when people advise people in these forums NOT to take USMLE. If he scores >220, then he's in a good position for ACGME anesthesia, and he doesn't have to worry about programs putting him on the back burner. Even if he takes Step 1 and performs poorly, then he can still opt to not include that score with his application. In that sense, there's no such thing as "USMLE killing his chances".

AOA programs must switch over within the next few years, and no one knows that the next few years will look like. Simply assuming the 8 AOA programs will still exist next year isn't a solid plan.
You do know that the AOA programs that switch to ACGME will and must still consider COMLEX only applicants right?


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Reveler

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You do know that the AOA programs that switch to ACGME will and must still consider COMLEX only applicants right?
Are you saying that they are under contractual obligation to consider COMLEX-only applicants? What would prevent them from ranking MD applicants only, regardless of who they "consider"? Just playing devil's advocate here.

Best case scenario: they continue to accept only DO applicants
Most likely scenario: they select the most competitive applicants, regardless of MD/DO
 

AlteredScale

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Are you saying that they are under contractual obligation to consider COMLEX-only applicants? What would prevent them from ranking MD applicants only, regardless of who they "consider"? Just playing devil's advocate here.

Best case scenario: they continue to accept only DO applicants
Most likely scenario: they select the most competitive applicants, regardless of MD/DO
If all AOA-now-ACGME programs started requiring USMLE, then a huge cohort of DO applicants with COMLEX-only applications will go unmatched and that wouldn't slide by the AOA which still exists, just not as a residency appointing entity. The AOA ensured that AGGME programs be given the option to still consider COMLEX-only applicants.

Knowing AOA orthopedic program directors in the midwest that have gained ACGME initial accreditation, they will still give preference to DO applicants because they know how extremely hard it is for DO applicants to break into ACGME worth programs. MD applicants are never going to rank AOA ortho programs highly, they don't have the resources/research/or faculty to compare to those of ACGME programs.
 
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AlbinoHawk DO

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An AOA residency in this specialty will affect your competitiveness for jobs. It is a weird field in that regard.
I've never heard of this, but either way, if the residency is accepting students, it will be ACGME by the time their graduate.
 
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AlbinoHawk DO

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Taking USMLE is a must. I'm still blown away when people advise people in these forums NOT to take USMLE. If he scores >220, then he's in a good position for ACGME anesthesia, and he doesn't have to worry about programs putting him on the back burner. Even if he takes Step 1 and performs poorly, then he can still opt to not include that score with his application. In that sense, there's no such thing as "USMLE killing his chances".

AOA programs must switch over within the next few years, and no one knows that the next few years will look like. Simply assuming the 8 AOA programs will still exist next year isn't a solid plan.
Have you even taken the step? Do you understand knowledge decay? Do you know it's a match violation to hide the USMLE? You shouldn't comment on things you have no understand of.
 
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Reveler

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Have you even taken the step? Do you understand knowledge decay? Do you know it's a match violation to hide the USMLE? You shouldn't comment on things you have no understand of.
I challenge you to provide documentation that says DO students must not only request USMLE scores on ERAS but also assign them to ACGME programs that they are applying to.

Yes I've taken step, understand knowledge decay and can comment on things I have understanding of. Thanks for asking.
 
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IslandStyle808

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I challenge you to provide documentation that says DO students must not only request USMLE scores on ERAS but also assign them to ACGME programs that they are applying to.

Yes I've taken step, understand knowledge decay and can comment on things I have understanding of. Thanks for asking.
I believe you would still have to address whether you took the exam or not. If you did, and stated "no" on the ERAS, then you would be a liar. If you did, and stated "yes" on the ERAS without releasing your score, then the programs would be wondering how badly you did.

I don't know why you think a bad USMLE score cannot hurt a DO.
 

AlbinoHawk DO

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I believe you would still have to address whether you took the exam or not. If you did, and stated "no" on the ERAS, then you would be a liar. If you did, and stated "yes" on the ERAS without releasing your score, then the programs would be wondering how badly you did.

I don't know why you think a bad USMLE score cannot hurt a DO.
He's too obtuse to understand. I seriously doubt he's taken the step.
 

Reveler

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I believe you would still have to address whether you took the exam or not. If you did, and stated "no" on the ERAS, then you would be a liar. If you did, and stated "yes" on the ERAS without releasing your score, then the programs would be wondering how badly you did.

I don't know why you think a bad USMLE score cannot hurt a DO.
No where on ERAS do you answer "yes I took USMLE" or "no I didn't take USMLE." The question is whether or not you choose to authorize the release of your scores. After authorizing the release, you then have the option of assigning the scores to individual programs. Therefore, if you score poorly as a DO, you can choose not to authorize your scores. OR if you authorize release of your scores to the ERAS system, you can still opt not to assign them to individual programs. If a program specifically asks you in your interview, "did you take USMLE??" You MUST tell the truth. In this sense, lying during an interview would be misrepresenting yourself, and therefore, would be a match violation.

I've read the ERAS User Guide and have found zero proof of this commonly-referenced SDN myth that students MUST release scores.

He's too obtuse to understand. I seriously doubt he's taken the step.
Attacking someone for challenging a myth rather than supplying evidence of your claim is rather absurd.
 

Staphylococcus Aureus

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Taking USMLE is a must. I'm still blown away when people advise people in these forums NOT to take USMLE. If he scores >220, then he's in a good position
Because the average USMLE for DO students that chose to take it is probably like 219. If all DO students were forced to take it the avg would be even lower, the curriculum (both content and time distribution) is aimed at COMLEX, it's an uphill battle for them to take and perform WELL on USMLE.
I'm still blown away that people here advise to take USMLE a year after studying no matter the likely outcome (in a previous thread, student had a <20th percentile COMLEX and users were telling him to take USMLE a year later) as if signing up for it and not failing locks you in for ultra competitive specialties. Ideally, if they can ensure >220, go for it to obviously maximize best options, but easier said than done for some out there.

Even if he takes Step 1 and performs poorly, then he can still opt to not include that score with his application. In that sense, there's no such thing as "USMLE killing his chances".
As others have pointed out, if this isn't a outright violation it is at least an ethical one that most applicants wouldn't want to roll the dice on.
 

AlbinoHawk DO

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No where on ERAS do you answer "yes I took USMLE" or "no I didn't take USMLE." The question is whether or not you choose to authorize the release of your scores. After authorizing the release, you then have the option of assigning the scores to individual programs. Therefore, if you score poorly as a DO, you can choose not to authorize your scores. OR if you authorize release of your scores to the ERAS system, you can still opt not to assign them to individual programs. If a program specifically asks you in your interview, "did you take USMLE??" You MUST tell the truth. In this sense, lying during an interview would be misrepresenting yourself, and therefore, would be a match violation.

I've read the ERAS User Guide and have found zero proof of this commonly-referenced SDN myth that students MUST release scores.



Attacking someone for challenging a myth rather than supplying evidence of your claim is rather absurd.
Lets see how well it goes for you when you tell programs "yeah, I took it, but I'm not telling!"

This feels like arguing with a 1st year undergrad pre-law where they think they found some magical loophole to all their problems. Would not be surprised if you wear a fedora.
 

Reveler

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Then why is no one producing evidence from NRMP or ERAS about this supposed match violation? And if you don't release your scores, then not sure why you would tell a program "yea I took it but I'm not telling." That's not a smart move.

I have two friends at two different DO schools that just told me their respective schools advise them not to release if they didn't score well and that it doesn't violate match rules. They are advised to tell the truth when on the interview trail if asked.

Also, for reference, I'm a 4th year MD student with good USMLE scores.
 
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el_duderino

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To be fair, there's no question on ERAS asking whether or not you took any USMLE exams. It only asks whether you authorize them to release a USMLE transcript.

If you don't, I expect it would become a question on interviews, which puts you in an awkward position. But I don't see how not authorizing release of a transcript would be a violation of any kind. At no point do you have to lie if you choose that course of action.

Unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible.
 

Goro

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I am a third year DO student and very interested in Anesthesia. I rank in the upper 10% of my class after second year. I scored 570 in COMLEX 1. I had a research duding the summer of my freshman year. No USMLE yet. What are my chances in Anesthesia? Do I need to take USMLE?
I recommend taking it as it will open more doors for you.
 
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ButterButter

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4th year DO student here. I agree with Reveler. My school specifically addressed this issue and their advice was: don't release USMLE scores if you don't want to, but if asked about it on the interview trail, you have to be honest. Lying about it in an interview would be a match violation.

The AOA alleges that DO students entering the match must report, but neither the official ERAS user guide nor any official publication from NRMP mandates score release. The AOA recommendation dates back to 2012 and hasn't been updated even as NRMP/ERAS has updated score authorization protocols. Furthermore, a student in my class emailed AAMC/ERAS about this issue and they responded that they don't have a policy mandating score reporting and that students should defer to individual program requirements.

On another note: all DOs should take USMLE. The times they are a-changin'.


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BorntobeDO?

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4th year DO student here. I agree with Reveler. My school specifically addressed this issue and their advice was: don't release USMLE scores if you don't want to, but if asked about it on the interview trail, you have to be honest. Lying about it in an interview would be a match violation.

The AOA alleges that DO students entering the match must report, but neither the official ERAS user guide nor any official publication from NRMP mandates score release. The AOA recommendation dates back to 2012 and hasn't been updated even as NRMP/ERAS has updated score authorization protocols. Furthermore, a student in my class emailed AAMC/ERAS about this issue and they responded that they don't have a policy mandating score reporting and that students should defer to individual program requirements.

On another note: all DOs should take USMLE. The times they are a-changin'.


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This is valuable information, appreciate those who have brought it to light.
 

moisne

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Can I as a separate personal question - sorry to hijack this thread.

I'm a MD 4th year from a decent med school. I got in the 4th quartile :( Step 1 was 237, step 2 is pending. I got killed mostly on clinical rotation because I'm pretty shy/introverted and a touch of social awkwardness. I'm couple matching with ortho :O (but he's competitive).

Does the last quartile kill me? I had applied to like 80 places though.
 

Shov

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Can I as a separate personal question - sorry to hijack this thread.

I'm a MD 4th year from a decent med school. I got in the 4th quartile :( Step 1 was 237, step 2 is pending. I got killed mostly on clinical rotation because I'm pretty shy/introverted and a touch of social awkwardness. I'm couple matching with ortho :O (but he's competitive).

Does the last quartile kill me? I had applied to like 80 places though.
Not being able to bench at least your step score will hurt you more than your quartile
 

el mero mero

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An AOA residency in this specialty will affect your competitiveness for jobs. It is a weird field in that regard.
The only programs that can take new residents and stay open are those that either have or will be acgme certified and this would allow for aba certification.
Though a moot point now, I believe the aoba discrimination for jibs was overblown. While I have heard of a few occurrences of discrimination due to osteopathic boards, they are minimal. I'm training at a former do program and we've never had grads struggle for jobs
 
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