Chances for MD Residency

[wadoctor86]

Hi everyone - Planning for rotations and residency and hoping to get your thoughts on my chance at an MD residency. I'd like to do an MD residency, but I know it's harder to get as a DO. I'm trying to plan audition rotations at hospitals where I can do a residency, but I'm having trouble deciding if I should try for MD or stick with DO.

Attending DO school
Top 5% of my class
USMLE: 250 (Haven't taken yet, but that is a reasonable goal based on practice tests.)
COMLEX: 700 (Haven't taken yet, but that is a reasonable goal based on practice tests.)
Volunteer work: Very little
Specialty Interests: radiology, anesthesiology, or IM residency with oncology fellowship

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[costales]

Decide when you have facts, not hypotheticals.

 

[Apoplexy__]

Hi everyone - Planning for rotations and residency and hoping to get your thoughts on my chance at an MD residency. I'd like to do an MD residency, but I know it's harder to get as a DO. I'm trying to plan audition rotations at hospitals where I can do a residency, but I'm having trouble deciding if I should try for MD or stick with DO.

Attending DO school
Top 5% of my class
USMLE: 250 (Haven't taken yet, but that is a reasonable goal based on practice tests.)
COMLEX: 700 (Haven't taken yet, but that is a reasonable goal based on practice tests.)
Volunteer work: Very little
Specialty Interests: radiology, anesthesiology, or IM residency with oncology fellowship

In your hypothetical situation, I'd say you'd be totally fine to get an MD residency. I wouldn't expect you having a problem matching somewhere even with a 230 USMLE in those fields if the rest of your application (research, interview skill, etc.) was good enough.

 

[hallowmann]

The fields you mentioned aren't particularly hard for DOs to get (maybe oncology). Get above 230 like kirbymeister said and do some research in 3rd year in the field and you should be fine. As far as getting Oncology, you'll need to aim for a mid-tier academic program, so be sure to do your research.

Right now just focus on boards though. After you get your scores, you'll have a better idea. Protip: aim for 300 on the USMLE and 800 on the COMLEX (i.e. your best).

 

[Dharma]

Hi everyone - Planning for rotations and residency and hoping to get your thoughts on my chance at an MD residency. I'd like to do an MD residency, but I know it's harder to get as a DO. I'm trying to plan audition rotations at hospitals where I can do a residency, but I'm having trouble deciding if I should try for MD or stick with DO.

Attending DO school
Top 5% of my class
USMLE: 250 (Haven't taken yet, but that is a reasonable goal based on practice tests.)
COMLEX: 700 (Haven't taken yet, but that is a reasonable goal based on practice tests.)
Volunteer work: Very little
Specialty Interests: radiology, anesthesiology, or IM residency with oncology fellowship

M2 and taking practice tests already? If so, a bit too early to be banking on those balling scores. Don't get me wrong, you should aim high… but stay humble.

 

[Apoplexy__]

M2 and taking practice tests already? If so, a bit too early to be banking on those balling scores. Don't get me wrong, you should aim high… but stay humble.

I'm pretty sure every competitive MS2 has a goal/expectation of 250+ on the USMLE...

 

[bajastapler]

the things you have mentioned are merely per-requisite filters that screen out potential candidates from "waste of time" candidates.

if you want to be taken seriously at getting those specialties/fellowships you best boost your research/presentations/publications. otherwise, you're not going to have a good time come match time.

 

[W19]

M2 and taking practice tests already? If so, a bit too early to be banking on those balling scores. Don't get me wrong, you should aim high… but stay humble.

If you visit the residency forum 250 does not seem to be balling score anymore... I guess by the time I am ready to take step1, the average might be in the 240s, which is not impossible since it is probably 230 now.

 

[bajastapler]

If you visit the residency forum 250 does not seem to be balling score anymore... I guess by the time I am ready to take step1, the average might be in the 240s, which is not impossible since it is probably 230 now.

i very strongly agree with the sentiment in this thread. The best way to really differentiate candidates post merger will be: research/presentations/publications/LoR.

Everything else are merely pre-reqs.

 

[W19]

i very strongly agree with the sentiment in this thread. The best way to really differentiate candidates post merger will be: research/presentations/publications/LoR.

Everything else are merely pre-reqs.

What year is the merger?

 

[bajastapler]

i haven't been following it in great detail, but from the things ive been reading i'd expect somewhere b/ween 2016-2020. long story short: be ready to be competiting against MD candidates for everything from family med to neurosurg.

good example of what to expect: my md friend who wants fam med has put out two poster presentations. what has your do classmate that wants fam med done for their CV? being president of family med club isn't going to cut it.

 

[hallowmann]

I'm pretty sure every competitive MS2 has a goal/expectation of 250+ on the USMLE...

Naw broh, I'm expecting a 270+. Anything less and I'll be stuck in FM, right?

What year is the merger?

Gradual between 2015-2020. After 2020 there will no longer be AOA accreditation (only a certification of "osteopathic-focus"), and all remaining programs will have to be ACGME accredited.

 

[W19]

Naw broh, I'm expecting a 270+. Anything less and I'll be stuck in FM, right?



Gradual between 2015-2020. After 2020 there will no longer be AOA accreditation (only a certification of "osteopathic-focus"), and all remaining programs will have to be ACGME accredited.

When you say gradual you mean that some programs will start integrating and other will not... There is an AOA FM program close to my home (not where I am attending med school) that I am targeting if it merges in the next three years... The PD knows me very well as I used to work with him... I am hoping that merging stuff materializes since I am at a US MD school.

 

[Dharma]

If you visit the residency forum 250 does not seem to be balling score anymore... I guess by the time I am ready to take step1, the average might be in the 240s, which is not impossible since it is probably 230 now.

240 average? When are you graduating?

SDN Land.

 

[W19]

2018--I am a MS1 now. The average last year was 228, so it might be 230 now.

 

[Apoplexy__]

If you visit the residency forum 250 does not seem to be balling score anymore... I guess by the time I am ready to take step1, the average might be in the 240s, which is not impossible since it is probably 230 now.

i haven't been following it in great detail, but from the things ive been reading i'd expect somewhere b/ween 2016-2020. long story short: be ready to be competiting against MD candidates for everything from family med to neurosurg.

good example of what to expect: my md friend who wants fam med has put out two poster presentations. what has your do classmate that wants fam med done for their CV? being president of family med club isn't going to cut it.

You guys honestly seem to be a little gloom and doom here. Score inflation is happening, yeah, but it's 228 now and has only increased 10 points in the past 8 years.

And @bajastapler , I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment of beefing up your CV as much as possible, competing with MD's, etc. but I think your anecdote is atypical. A significant sub-group of people in all schools nationally have a C=MD mentality and therefore shoot for non-competitive specialties with no effort of doing EC's at all. Also, 50% of all med students have below-median scores -- if you're not one of those, you're making up for other disadvantages right there.

Naw broh, I'm expecting a 270+. Anything less and I'll be stuck in FM, right?

Yeah, in rural Antarctica.

 

[hallowmann]

When you say gradual you mean that some programs will start integrating and other will not... There is an AOA FM program close to my home (not where I am attending med school) that I am targeting if it merges in the next three years... The PD knows me very well as I used to work with him... I am hoping that merging stuff materializes since I am at a US MD school.

Yeah, its up to the programs to apply and obviously it depends on them and the evaluations by the ACGME when they will be accredited.

Honestly, if I were you, I'd talk to your contacts at that program and see what their timeline is for applying and getting accredited. You need to know ahead of time if they are going for an "osteopathic-focus" because that may require you to do some additional work (maybe some OMM training) to be eligible for the spot there. At this point, its too early to know exactly what that additional work is.

 

[bajastapler]

You guys honestly seem to be a little gloom and doom here. Score inflation is happening, yeah, but it's 228 now and has only increased 10 points in the past 8 years.

And @bajastapler , I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment of beefing up your CV as much as possible, competing with MD's, etc. but I think your anecdote is atypical. A significant sub-group of people in all schools nationally have a C=MD mentality and therefore shoot for non-competitive specialties with no effort of doing EC's at all. Also, 50% of all med students have below-median scores -- if you're not one of those, you're making up for other disadvantages right there.



Yeah, in rural Antarctica.

I admit I am being extreme in the example I put out. I brought it up because I think too many med students both MD and DO are too complacent and just assume things will fall into their lap. Not to harp on OP or rain on their parade, but I get annoyed when I see threads like this. The general timeline of these threads go like this:

1) premed years: I am going DO, but i'll totally get GI.
2) med years: I haven't done anything to make me competitive but i'm applying IM and for that fellowship!
3) resident years: I didn't get it, but i'll be a hospitalist and apply for GI later on!
4) attending years: burnout. go to SDN. post reviews about how miserable it is to be a DO and how impossible it is to get anything competitive.

I bring up my friend's case about fam med just to point out that if you want to make it - even in non competitive specialties - the time to start is now!

 

[Dharma]

good example of what to expect: my md friend who wants fam med has put out two poster presentations. what has your do classmate that wants fam med done for their CV? being president of family med club isn't going to cut it.

You're giving the whole EC thing way too much clout here. It's a part of the overall package, but in terms of bang for your buck, it's a do-it-because-you-like-it kind of thing, not a major game changer.

 

[costales]

I admit I am being extreme in the example I put out. I brought it up because I think too many med students both MD and DO are too complacent and just assume things will fall into their lap. Not to harp on OP or rain on their parade, but I get annoyed when I see threads like this. The general timeline of these threads go like this:
1) premed years: I am going DO, but i'll totally get GI.
2) med years: I haven't done anything to make me competitive but i'm applying IM and for that fellowship!

^ This. Every single DO student I know who matched competitively started making inquiries for research as soon as they got in. They didn't wait until summer, they didn't wait until 2nd year. They made themselves competitive regardless of their environment.

 

[Dharma]

^ This. Every single DO student I know who matched competitively started making inquiries for research as soon as they got in. They didn't wait until summer, they didn't wait until 2nd year. They made themselves competitive regardless of their environment.

I bet you these same students also put in the time/effort necessary to max out board scores and perform well on clerkships. Research is awesome, IF you are interested, especially in an academic career. I'm not sure I would advocate it as a must-do checklist item for those without an interest in doing so. There are many ways to make oneself competitive. But if research is an interest, start early.

 

[costales]

Correct. They also had the requisite boards and electives - this is also something that must be planned ahead.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Yes. If you dont have a 300 USMLE while curing AIDS by the end of your first year, you will never be a gastroenterologist. I totally agree.

 

[SLC]

good example of what to expect: my md friend who wants fam med has put out two poster presentations. what has your do classmate that wants fam med done for their CV? being president of family med club isn't going to cut it.

I'm applying MD Family Med right now; as a DO with nothing but good board scores. No presentations, research, publications, etc.

I've got interviews at a lot of really really good places. 14 invites so far, and I applied over a week late to boot. Invites at places including IU, UTSW, Texas A&M, UofA, UofColorado, and some of the best community unopposed programs etc.

Family Med isn't anywhere near the way you describe it; it's essentially wide open for even minimally qualified DO applicants (and I think that's pretty much common knowledge here).

 

[Dro133]

This is slightly off topic, but if someone did research and had their name published on abstracts/posters during a graduate degree (such as a MS), does that help when applying to competitive residencies?

 

[SLC]

This is slightly off topic, but if someone did research and had their name published on abstracts/posters during a graduate degree (such as a MS), does that help when applying to competitive residencies?

Absolutely, yes. I put a lot of things I did before med school on my ERAS application.

 

[NurWollen]

I admit I am being extreme in the example I put out. I brought it up because I think too many med students both MD and DO are too complacent and just assume things will fall into their lap. Not to harp on OP or rain on their parade, but I get annoyed when I see threads like this. The general timeline of these threads go like this:

1) premed years: I am going DO, but i'll totally get GI.
2) med years: I haven't done anything to make me competitive but i'm applying IM and for that fellowship!
3) resident years: I didn't get it, but i'll be a hospitalist and apply for GI later on!
4) attending years: burnout. go to SDN. post reviews about how miserable it is to be a DO and how impossible it is to get anything competitive.

I bring up my friend's case about fam med just to point out that if you want to make it - even in non competitive specialties - the time to start is now!

This made me laugh. Life cycle of a disgruntled DO.

 

[koan]

You're giving the whole EC thing way too much clout here. It's a part of the overall package, but in terms of bang for your buck, it's a do-it-because-you-like-it kind of thing, not a major game changer.

That depends entirely on the specialty. The anecdote from @SLC makes sense b/c they are applying to FM (congrats on all the interviews!) but for a DO applying to non-primary care ACGME specialties (or IM), research and pubs go a long way. Even in fields that don't emphasize research much, like anesthesia. Yes, this is with the obvious assumption that equivalent board scores and grades are there. For stuff like clubs and volunteer events, I would agree with you.

On a side note, why do you guys like calling ACGME residencies "MD residency" so much? This has become a pet peeve of mine, ha. I guess it just seems deferential, as if the MD's are "letting us" apply to their programs. (Never mind that we don't let them apply to ours at the moment.) Either way, I can't wait until all programs are ACGME-accredited and I can stop hearing those words "MD residency"...

 

[SLC]

That depends entirely on the specialty. The anecdote from @SLC makes sense b/c they are applying to FM (congrats on all the interviews!) but for a DO applying to non-primary care ACGME specialties (or IM), research and pubs go a long way.

I threw out my anecdote because the poster I responded to used FM to try to prove his point.

 

[orangeman25]

I bet you these same students also put in the time/effort necessary to max out board scores and perform well on clerkships. Research is awesome, IF you are interested, especially in an academic career. I'm not sure I would advocate it as a must-do checklist item for those without an interest in doing so. There are many ways to make oneself competitive. But if research is an interest, start early.

Yeah but if you want a semi competitive specialty and don't have research, you are at a disadvantage - regardless if research is a big interest of yours. There's lots of different kinds of research tho, so I'm sure there is something that would be interesting

 

[Dharma]

Yeah but if you want a semi competitive specialty and don't have research, you are at a disadvantage - regardless if research is a big interest of yours. There's lots of different kinds of research tho, so I'm sure there is something that would be interesting

"Competitive" specialty and/or program, yes. I still don't think research should be thrown up on a to-do checklist unless one actually has an interest in research. Many many programs in many specialties will still be obtainable. Playing a somewhat integral role in legitimate long term(ish) research obviously kicks up the competitive factor but I hesitate to advocate the pursuit of research just to have it on the CV. I bet a significant portion of med students have zero interest in research and if the rest of their game is tight, they will be just fine. Those of you looking at "top tier" programs in swanky locations... Well, different ball game for you folks.

 

[Seth Joo]

Hi everyone - Planning for rotations and residency and hoping to get your thoughts on my chance at an MD residency. I'd like to do an MD residency, but I know it's harder to get as a DO. I'm trying to plan audition rotations at hospitals where I can do a residency, but I'm having trouble deciding if I should try for MD or stick with DO.

Attending DO school
Top 5% of my class
USMLE: 250 (Haven't taken yet, but that is a reasonable goal based on practice tests.)
COMLEX: 700 (Haven't taken yet, but that is a reasonable goal based on practice tests.)
Volunteer work: Very little
Specialty Interests: radiology, anesthesiology, or IM residency with oncology fellowship

If you really do that well on your boards, I see no issue with getting an MD residency at all. Maybe if its Mass General or some other elite institution, it might be an issue as elite places tend to be biased towards DOs. But there are many DOs at major academic institutions.