Cheap School vs. Dream School

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Which would you choose?

  • the cheap school

    Votes: 72 31.9%
  • the dream school

    Votes: 154 68.1%

  • Total voters
    226

doctorsareneat

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Like so many others, this is my dilemma.

I've gotten into a couple of great schools. One is my undergrad's med school and one is far away and private. My home school is a great school, and I've gotten to like it a lot over the years, but I'm pretty sure the far away school would give me a slightly better education. The problem is, I'm pretty sure I'll be receiving a scholarship from my home school, and I don't think I'll get one from the already more expensive far away school.

So what would you do?

A. go to the cheaper school, still get a great education.
or
B. go to the better school, get a possibly better education, and come out of school with maybe $75,000 more debt.

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Badly written question. Most of the schools that have a lot of money are better ones... so I think a lot of schools that give money are pretty darn good... so it's not mutually exclusive... but if i had the choice between my dream (UCSF) and my cheapest (UCD)... I'd choose UCSF... although I probably wont go to either... :(
 
Here's something that I was told, everything that you will learn in med school will only be slightly relevent, you will end up learning everything you need to be doctor during your residency. Now that's said, if you're planning on going to a residency that is very competative such as plastics, go to a school that is more "prestiege" otherwise it litteraly doesn't make any difference which school you end up going.
 
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Badly written question. Most of the schools that have a lot of money are better ones... so I think a lot of schools that give money are pretty darn good... so it's not mutually exclusive... but if i had the choice between my dream (UCSF) and my cheapest (UCD)... I'd choose UCSF... although I probably wont go to either... :(
UCD is more expensive then UCSF, but I would have really tough time deciding to which one I should go to
 
It really is a tough decision, and more of a gut feeling type thing. If you can be happy at the state school then I'd go there. I am not saying like ridiculous dream school happy, but content and not depressed. The money saved will probably be more beneficial in the long run. It is hard to find enough reason to warrant a whole bunch of money to a "slightly better" education, unless it is your passion to go there. Generally, you'll make your education as much as the individual medical school will. Good luck with the decision. You are in a great, but tough situation.
 
UCD is more expensive then UCSF, but I would have really tough time deciding to which one I should go to

My parents have a place in Davis :). So for me it would be cheaper, living in SF is crazy expensive...
 
My parents have a place in Davis :). So for me it would be cheaper, living in SF is crazy expensive...

yeah, my problem isnt necessarily that one school is better than another, but the chance to live in a much better location for a boatload more money... it's been a tough call, really.
 
Chiched answer but, go with whatever you're happier at- just like choosing your college. Education will mostlikely be the same wherever you go so it comes down to money vs happiness. Granted, you may be trading off money for happiness at a dream school, but then again, when will going to medical school and college ever happen again in your life? Your debts will be paid off eventually but I would see it as money well spent if it meant that you loved all four years of your stay there.
 
If I got into IU (my state school) and Northwestern (my dream school), I would pick Northwestern easily.
 
what else is money for other than helping you acheive your dreams?

Is your dream to go to med school or to be a doctor?

I'd say there's no easy answer for this. If the money difference is large, then you might consider four years at the less expensive school really isn't much of a cost when you consider that many students don't end up choosing where to practice based on where they'd like to, but based on the amount of debt they have. Four years of "happiness" + the rest of your life wishing you were practicing somewhere else = unhappiness. While everyone really seems to be really into going for the prestige when they apply, I think you'll realize that the most prestigious schools don't necessarily put out the best clinicians, and in general, you'll probably be able to achieve the same residency after attending either school. However, I should add that if you are interested in academic medicine, this might not be the case. Plus, you never know, you might end up being just as happy at the cheaper school, and you'll probably have more money to spend on things that make you happy while you're there.
 
The only reason I'd tell you to worry about the money over your dream school is if you're an older applicant (talking 35+) where you'll have much less time to pay back the debt. Other than that, go with the dream school, but go with it because it's your dream school, not because of so-called reputation or some notion you'll get a 'better education'. You might, but you probably won't.
 
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Like so many others, this is my dilemma.

I've gotten into a couple of great schools. One is my undergrad's med school and one is far away and private. My home school is a great school, and I've gotten to like it a lot over the years, but I'm pretty sure the far away school would give me a slightly better education. The problem is, I'm pretty sure I'll be receiving a scholarship from my home school, and I don't think I'll get one from the already more expensive far away school.

So what would you do?

A. go to the cheaper school, still get a great education.
or
B. go to the better school, get a possibly better education, and come out of school with maybe $75,000 more debt.

how much better is the question - if you're comparing albany and harvard, then i don't care if albany will pay me full tuition plus stipend - i'd still choose harvard.

that being said - if you're home school is a good school, but not "prestiguous" on the level of John Hopkins, then I'd go with the home school that gives you a scholarship. It's not that big of a deal unless your home school is like at the bottom of the tier 3 schools.
 
My advice is to go where you think you'll be happiest. Which school has the students you can see yourself fitting in with. Which school feels most like home.

It's a long ****in four years... if you pick a place you don't mesh well with you'll be miserable.
 
$75,000 isn't really that much of a difference when it comes to dream vs. cheaper school. I would say if it were a $200k difference then have to think twice. I would say choose your dream school, you wont be sorry later.
 
My dreams are cheap.
 
I'm surprised with everyones response. I think this question was asked in the allopathic forum and the response was exactly opposite. Go with the cheap school if you think that you'll like it. Dreams are great, but practicality is what will be important to you when you start paying back these loans.
I guess it just depends on the degree of savings and the degree of happiness involved. If your talking about $5k less a year, then go to your dream school. If your talking about $15K less a year and you feel like you can be happy at the cheap school, go to the cheap school. If you are absolutely certain that you will tear out your hair every night before you go to bed because you attended the cheap school and you are incredibly unhappy, then go to your dream school.
 
I am going to the cheapest medschool I can get my hands on, screw all that quality stuff. I am not going knee deep in debt while physicians pay is declining. That's just my opinion.
 
I am going to the cheapest medschool I can get my hands on, screw all that quality stuff. I am not going knee deep in debt while physicians pay is declining. That's just my opinion.

Here's my opinion, sirus: don't go to medical school. With your "the sky is falling" view of things, you are destined to be miserable in this career path for a long, long time.
 
I could never be happy giving up my dream school to save money.. I'm already in debt from u-grad. I'll pay it off. I'm going to be making boatloads of money as a doc evetually.. Or I'll just marry a rich man. :D

Dream school all the way baby!
 
thanks for the replies everyone.

if I knew I was going to be so unhappy at my home school that I would 'tear my hair out,' this decision would be super easy.

I'll just go ahead and say that the two schools are VCU and Rochester. They are actually pretty similar schools (at least in certain respects). Another big selling point for me at Rochester is the small(er) class size. 185 vs 100. Also that 40% of Rochester students go abroad during their 4 years, and often the school will pay for it.
But, I know that I would be happy in Richmond (since I've lived here or 4 years and I really like it here), and it would be a gamble to see if I would be happy in the frigid tundra that is Rochester. Of course, someone could argue that happiness and med school are mutually exclusive (and I might agree.. j/k). I'm going to visit Rochester in a couple of weeks for 'second look weekend,' though.

There are advantages at Rochester that I definitely won't find at VCU. Is that worth possibly $20,000 a year?
 
Rochester is a great school, so I feel your pain here.

Can you apply for scholarships that would make the tuition less painful?
 
Here's my opinion, sirus: don't go to medical school. With your "the sky is falling" view of things, you are destined to be miserable in this career path for a long, long time.

Or I might just be realistic, and happy.
 
All the (Harvard) Brigham and Women's ER residents and attendings think y'alls are CRAZYY! They come from... SLU, Vanderbilt, Wayne State, etc... and they think the bunch of premeds on this forum are nuts (including me). They say do the practical thing, where you end up does not depend on where you go to school, residency programs take very little of their affiliated medical schools, and if you go to a lower tiered school (which their answer to that is what the hell does that mean - they're all the same), and become the big fish, you can get some of the best residencies. So they say definitely take the cheaper option, because regardless how much you make after residency, residency is gonna suck with those student loans, and if you have a family it'll suck harder. There ya go, straight from the big one's mouth. Now, I've gotta go to a seminar with the chief attending...
 
if you could be happy at the cheaper medschool (and happy is really relative in medschool where you spend most of your time too busy to realize whether you are miserable or not . . .) then go there. Most of us are coming into medschool as one of the top students from undergrad, but chances are you will just be average in medschool, and the possiblity of a less competitive specialty is a whole lot easier to handle when you're not staring down a quarter mil of debt. If you are amazing and destined for plastics or derm you will be amazing no matter where you are. I can't imagine all of the stress of medschool with a quarter mil of debt looming over me as well, every mediocre moment would feel far more tragic and epic than it already does.
 
Or I might just be realistic, and happy.

I wouldn't call it realism, given that your views are shared by only an extreme minority of individuals.

And, I hate to break it to you, but you don't seem happy. You seem bitter and angry. If you are happy, you do a better job of hiding it than anyone I have ever seen.
 
if you could be happy at the cheaper medschool (and happy is really relative in medschool where you spend most of your time too busy to realize whether you are miserable or not . . .) then go there. Most of us are coming into medschool as one of the top students from undergrad, but chances are you will just be average in medschool, and the possiblity of a less competitive specialty is a whole lot easier to handle when you're not staring down a quarter mil of debt. If you are amazing and destined for plastics or derm you will be amazing no matter where you are. I can't imagine all of the stress of medschool with a quarter mil of debt looming over me as well, every mediocre moment would feel far more tragic and epic than it already does.

As simple as that.
 
There are advantages at Rochester that I definitely won't find at VCU. Is that worth possibly $20,000 a year?

I don't really know either of those schools so can't help you a whole lot. I guess it depends on your financial situation. If money isn't that big of a deal to you, then maybe your dream school is worth going to. Money's a big deal to me so if it were me, I'd pick the cheaper school. I'm currently borrowing about $70K a year and believe me, it really weighs on me. If I had gotten into my state school, I would've gone in a heart beat. I'm gonna have around $330K in debt when I leave school. Thats serious money. Its actually had me in mini panic mode lately, to the point where I considered leaving med school and going to nursing school because not only would it be cheaper, a shorter education, and a good paying job when I'm done, but I'll have much more time with my children and husband, who I feel have been neglected lately.

$20K a year will be $93600 by the end of the fourth year (figuring 6.8% interest in there). Thats a big deal.

And I say listen to the med students, residents, and doctors over premeds.
 
You should whereever you think you will do the best. At the end of the day, unless you're at Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, etc (a top 5 all around), how well you do and the contacts you make set up your residency, which makes you the physician/surgeon you're going to be. Don't worry about money, financial institutionsL LOVE loaning med students money. It's a good investment for them as well as you. Here's your motto for med school 'make it work!' Work hard, learn fast, train well, stand out. If you do that at almost any school, you will go far. If you do that at a top 5, well you can probably take over the world (jk). Anyway, that's my few cents.
 
I don't understand what people mean by "dream" school. How much exposure do you really have to any medical school before you drive around in it a little and not just kick the tires?

I'd say that geography and price are more important than ethereal considerations. You might really want to go to a Canadian school, like Harvard for example, and realize that you would have been happier at your state school.
 
I wouldn't call it realism, given that your views are shared by only an extreme minority of individuals.

And, I hate to break it to you, but you don't seem happy. You seem bitter and angry. If you are happy, you do a better job of hiding it than anyone I have ever seen.

Well excuse me. Based on the money I have saved up and the cost of attending my state school, I am going to finish medschool with only 60K debt, and I am still fighting for scholarships to drive that even lower. Would I trade that for the opportunity to go to Harvard or Hopkins? Never. If they don't offer me the same financial incentive, they can kiss my ass while juggling my nutz. Since medschools have decided to pretend they don't know physicians' income is on a decline, it is my duty to cover my ass and make sure no one sticks anything in it.

BTW, I am not being as pessimistic as I am being realistic. What part of declining income don't you get? What part of uncertainty do you not understand? I dare you to predict what physicians will be earning 10 years from now when you actually start to practice.
 
Well excuse me. Based on the money I have saved up and the cost of attending my state school, I am going to finish medschool with only 60K debt, and I am still fighting for scholarships to drive that even lower. Would I trade that for the opportunity to go to Harvard or Hopkins? Never. If they don't offer me the same financial incentive, they can kiss my ass while juggling my nutz. Since medschools have decided to pretend they don't know physicians' income is on a decline, it is my duty to cover my ass and make sure no one sticks anything in it.

BTW, I am not being as pessimistic as I am being realistic. What part of declining income don't you get? What part of uncertainty do you not understand? I dare you to predict what physicians will be earning 10 years from now when you actually start to practice.


You, sir, are obviously not fit to board the medical Mother-Ship that is coming to take us all to the "Happy Place." maybe we need to deprive you of some more sleep or feed you less protein.
 
hey, i'm not saying that a "dream school" has anything to do with prestige, nor that the cheaper school is the inferior one. for someone who grew up around davis and always "dreamed" of going there and practicing in a rural town nearby, it will be easy to turn down a cheaper stanford.
 
You, sir, are obviously not fit to board the medical Mother-Ship that is coming to take us all to the "Happy Place." maybe we need to deprive you of some more sleep or feed you less protein.

:laugh:

Uncle Panda, me and you are not on the same boat. You are already an MD close to the promise land. Your own future is more predictable. I on the other hand am a complete decade away from the promised land. So I have to keep it real. Afterall, it is not like there is a contract that says "Finish medical training and we will pay you X dollars". Now that every Tom, Dick, and Harry is asking for free healthcare, who knows what the future is going to bring?
 
:laugh:

Uncle Panda, me and you are not on the same boat. You are already an MD close to the promise land. Your own future is more predictable. I on the other hand am a complete decade away from the promised land. So I have to keep it real. Afterall, it is not like there is a contract that says "Finish medical training and we will pay you X dollars". Now that every Tom, Dick, and Harry is asking for free healthcare, who knows what the future is going to bring?

What field are you hoping to go into if I might ask. I have to make a decision and I'm not finding it very easy. My state has a loan repayment program that I am currently a part of. They are payment my tuition plus a stipend in exchange for 4 years of work in primary care in an underserved region. Family practice, pediatrics, internal med, and emergency medicine are all considered primary care. I think I could be happy with a few of the above but do not know for sure that I won't end up loving surgery or radiology, or something else. Going with the program means the difference of having ~100K in debt when I leave or 330K without the program. (I'm in an out of state school, have two children in daycare and am borrowing the max to help support us). The larger debt is weighing on me pretty strongly, but yet I am afraid that I'll get to the end of med school and regretting the fact that I can't go into my choice of residency. The fine for backing out (after first year) of the program is steep, so that is not really an option.
I know there are other loan repayment programs that I can get involved in after I finish residency (should I end up in primary care anyway) but they will pay back a much smaller amount per year than my current program.

Panda - you mentioned that you thought it was a good idea to get out of it... but with the decline of reimbursement in subspecialties and with the option that after four years I can always go into a fellowship, do you still think that it would be better to give it up?
 
You, sir, are obviously not fit to board the medical Mother-Ship that is coming to take us all to the "Happy Place." maybe we need to deprive you of some more sleep or feed you less protein.

:laugh:

that's our panda!
 
Can you apply for scholarships that would make the tuition less painful?

if my parents income is involved, I won't get any need based scholarships... which sucks since they won't be giving me any money. I don't want to committ myself anywhere after med school, and, espcially at Rochester, my stats are not that great.
:(
 
Well excuse me. Based on the money I have saved up and the cost of attending my state school, I am going to finish medschool with only 60K debt, and I am still fighting for scholarships to drive that even lower. Would I trade that for the opportunity to go to Harvard or Hopkins? Never. If they don't offer me the same financial incentive, they can kiss my ass while juggling my nutz. Since medschools have decided to pretend they don't know physicians' income is on a decline, it is my duty to cover my ass and make sure no one sticks anything in it.

BTW, I am not being as pessimistic as I am being realistic. What part of declining income don't you get? What part of uncertainty do you not understand? I dare you to predict what physicians will be earning 10 years from now when you actually start to practice.

Assuming that the worst will happen is not "realistic." It's pessimistic. You sound just as silly as someone would if they wrote that doctors' salaries will take a sharp rise and that we will all be millionaires.

The logical thing to say is this: doctors' salaries might continue to decline in the next 10 years. Or, with the baby boomers retiring and healthcare demands increasing, this decline could stop or (gasp!) doctors' salaries could actually rise. Maybe Congress will pass radical legislation that leads to massive paycuts for physicians, or maybe Congress will pass tort reform bills that lower malpractice premiums. We don't know what will happen. It is, as you say, uncertain. At least we're fortunate enough to be early in our careers, where we can still choose a subspecialty and/or career path that might avoid some of these potential pitfalls.


I just think you need to chill. A lot.
 
Sirius_Virus' concerns are well-founded. Exactly what public pressure is there to keep physician's salaries high if we go to an even more socialized system than we have now? If the government can decide your pay, the natural pressure is downwards.

If you think that practicing physicians aren't concerned about declining reimbursements then you are mistaken.

Medicine: For $220,000 a year, great career decision. (Typical EM salary)
Medicine: For $160,000 a year, pretty good career decision (typical FM salary)
Medicine: For $90,000 a year. Not so much.
Medicine: For $70,000 a year. I quit. Go back to engineering where at least I can make more money the harder I work.
 
...Panda - you mentioned that you thought it was a good idea to get out of it... but with the decline of reimbursement in subspecialties and with the option that after four years I can always go into a fellowship, do you still think that it would be better to give it up?

Well, since EM and internal medicine are included maybe it is a good thing. I thought it was just for Family Medicine. But you need to also see how much money is being offered to work in under-served areas. If the best you can do is $80,000 a year to work on an Indian reservation then it's still not worth it.

You have to approach all of these deals (Primary Care Stipends, Military, etc) from the perspective of there being no such thing as a free lunch.
 
Well, since EM and internal medicine are included maybe it is a good thing. I thought it was just for Family Medicine. But you need to also see how much money is being offered to work in under-served areas. If the best you can do is $80,000 a year to work on an Indian reservation then it's still not worth it.

You have to approach all of these deals (Primary Care Stipends, Military, etc) from the perspective of there being no such thing as a free lunch.

They don't define where you have to go. Its the Kansas Medical Student Loan. I just have to work in Kansas underserved region. All but four counties in Kansas are underserved. Even Wyandotte county (Kansas City, KS) is considered underserved. (Though I prefer rural underserved to urban underserved).
The amount of money I make will be determined the same as anywhere else, how many patients I see (unless I work in a hospital of course).

And I'd be able to subspecialize once my four years are up. I'm just concerned that I'll get to the end and really love something like surgery, anesthesiology, or radiology and then I'll be out of luck. But maybe what draws me to those fields is the higher reimbursement which may fall in the next 8 years and in which case I'll be SOL with $330K in loans instead of $100K.
I do like to do things with my hands and like quick results (appeal of surgery/anesthesiology).
I just don't know. I need to make a decision before I apply for next years financial aid though.
 
They don't define where you have to go. Its the Kansas Medical Student Loan. I just have to work in Kansas underserved region. All but four counties in Kansas are underserved. Even Wyandotte county (Kansas City, KS) is considered underserved. (Though I prefer rural underserved to urban underserved).
The amount of money I make will be determined the same as anywhere else, how many patients I see (unless I work in a hospital of course).

What if you can't get an Emergency Medicine job in Kansas? Or a decent IM job? Do some research.
 
You, sir, are obviously not fit to board the medical Mother-Ship that is coming to take us all to the "Happy Place." maybe we need to deprive you of some more sleep or feed you less protein.

ROFLMAO!!! Thx panda.
 
There are advantages at Rochester that I definitely won't find at VCU. Is that worth possibly $20,000 a year?

Example(s)?

You should post a similar poll in the General Residency forum. I'm betting the Cheap School will win by a landslide.
 
Dream school. You only live once.
 
I'll let you guys know once I've made my decision since I'm definitely in this boat! Until then I'll just keep following the debate and see who wins out and who knows maybe my dream will end up being cheap! <----Hey I can dream right??? :D
 
Example(s)?


I already listed a couple (small class size, free/cheap projects abroad), a required community health improvement clerkship, student run clinics, etc.
 
I already listed a couple (small class size, free/cheap projects abroad), a required community health improvement clerkship, student run clinics, etc.

That's like paying $75,000 to get sprinkles on your doughnut. A nice addition, to be sure, but absolutely not worth the investment.

Speaking of investment, $75,000 paid back over 10 years at 6.8% comes out to $99,918 with interest ($833/month for 120 months). Over 30 years it comes out to $161,879 ($450/month for 360 months).

Let's say you go to VCU, and instead of having to pay back the extra 75K over 10 years you invest $833/month for 120 months at an average 6.8% yield. After 10 years it's grown to $141,212. If you stop adding money and just let it sit at 6.8%, in 20 more years you'll have $526,377 in the bank.

Or you could invest $450 a month for 360 months, which at 6.8% would grow to $531,045.

So, would you rather be 500K up or 100K down? It may seem like hyperbole, but your debt load is going to determine a lot of your future, in terms of your choice of specialty, how long you practice, how well you live and how well you retire. Doctors are notoriously bad with their money, so try to avoid the trap of assumed inevitable future prosperity. Besides, chances are your dream school is just that: an illusion.
 
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