chicago area schools/family friendly programs

[DRMCB]

I'm encouraged by the feedback that you have given and feel like beginning medical school in 2004, while also continuing to be a good and present father and husband may be more of an option that I thought.
A couple of additional questions:

1) Given the varying schedules at medical schools, does anyone have any feeling for the schedules (family-friendliness) of Chicago area schools... specifically UIC, Rush, Loyola, Finch, and the Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine? These are the schools that I am currently considering.

2) If I attended a school with a schedule of 8-12 (as referenced above), is it realistic to think that I could spend the early afternoon with my son (until maybe 4 or so) and still have time to study? Of course I would have more time on the weekends to study, but I also don't want to be an absentee father and husband. Any thoughts?

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[LR6SO4]

I am not familiar with the curriculum of any of those schools, however anything with more PBL will give you more 'home' time. Or a school with a good scribe service so you can skip lectures. "Primary Care oriented" schools tend to be more family friendly too. I don't know how well this holds up, a few years ago even Big Ten research based schools were touting their primary care aspects (UMich and Wisconsin come to mind...). This has dwindled now I believe, though I think that UIC-Rockford is real primary care oriented. DO schools may be more 'family friendly' too, although my friends at a DO school spend A LOT more time in lectures than I do (I have PBL). First year their OMM labs were very time consuming too. There are several people in my class with kids and all are doing very well. 2 have chosen to extend their program (basic sciences in 3 years), so if this interests you find a school that is open to it. Some are more so than others. Good Luck!

 

[gel1]

I know that UIC has a special "extended" program, where parents are able to stretch the first two years over a period of three years at no additional financial cost. This allows them to spend more time with their families.

 

[Keywhite]

Rush has a program to extend your 2 years over 3 years as well.
Classes are not mandatory, and the notes for all the classes are given to you on the first day of orientation.
Yes, people have other lives. Like Thursday night poker games.

 

[PimplePopperMD]

I'm a UIC student, and I rarely went to class the first two years. I rarely went to gross anatomy labs as well. there are some school activities that i would always attend, like reviews, and the like, but the first two years at UIC are pretty much make-your-own schedule. Now the latter two years are a bit different, and if you hope to get home at noon for your third and fourth years, you're going to be in for a shock!

 

[DRMCB]

It sounds like the first two years are somewhat flexible. What should I expect from the 3rd and 4th years? My child will be in K or 1st grade by then, so I wouldn't need to be home by 12 and would be able to put in more hours. At the same time, I still want to be a good/present father and husband. Is it realistic to think that my family will see me occasionally? What is a "typical" schedule... if there is one! What about in residency... I plan on family med. or pediatrics. Thanks.

 

[sandflea]

Originally posted by PimplePopperMD:
•I'm a UIC student, and I rarely went to class the first two years. I rarely went to gross anatomy labs as well. •••

i can understand not attending lectures, but skipping out on anatomy lab?! don't you feel like your education is lacking in some way? isn't having a good grasp of anatomy one of the fundamental parts of medical knowledge? no offense, but frankly i don't think i would want to see a physician that didn't know their way around the human body! is that how it is at UIC?

 

[PimplePopperMD]

Oh, Sandflea, no offense taken. Rest assured, *I* am the only person in the country who will graduate with an MD who didn't bother spending countless hours dissecting. It's evident you understand what it takes to be an outstanding clinician. I suggest you screen your future medical caretakers, and those of your family, by the amount of hours they spent dissecting.

DRMCB: Third and fourth years can be very time intensive, depending on the rotation. Third year one has all the required rotations of surgery, peds, internal medicine, psych, OB/GYN, and family med. During surgery, for instance, I was on call (ie sleeping in the hospital) every fourth night, and my usual hours were from 530am-6pm, though sometimes I wouldn't get home until 8 or 9. Note: this is NOT conducive to a family life! But people do it, and keep their families together. And, depending on the program, it's anywhere from 6-12 weeks long.

(fourth year is much less call, many fewer hours, etc... but still not terribly flexible; you really need to adhere to the schedules put forth by the clerkship director)

However, I should qualify my statement on the first two years... depending on the way in which you learn, you have a very flexible schedule. Some people are lecture learners, some people learn best while dissecting, etc... so if you know thyself, you'll have an idea of what the first two years will be like. Regardless, you'll spend quite a bit of time studying.

 

[PimplePopperMD]

Forgot to mention:

My average week on surgery was anywhere from 85-110 hours/week (no joke!)

Psych was about 40 hours/week

Peds was anywhere from 50-100 h/week (depending on call that week)

 

[sandflea]

Originally posted by PimplePopperMD:
•Oh, Sandflea, no offense taken. Rest assured, *I* am the only person in the country who will graduate with an MD who didn't bother spending countless hours dissecting. It's evident you understand what it takes to be an outstanding clinician. I suggest you screen your future medical caretakers, and those of your family, by the amount of hours they spent dissecting.
•••

wow. you have *completely* missed my point.

i am not commenting on every other med student in the country, nor am i making any kind of assumption about 'what it takes to be a clinician'. all i'm wondering is why you didn't feel it was necessary to attend anatomy lecture. do you really feel like you have a good grasp of anatomy having spent little time actually examining a human body inside and out? if you feel you do, then congratulations. i wasn't trying to make any kind of statement about your fitness to be a physician--i don't even know you!!!--and you can approach your education any way you see fit, for crying out loud. i'm sitting on a UIC acceptance and i am simply wondering why so few people attend class there. it's a point of concern for me and i thought you could enlighten me, that's all. apparently i asked the wrong person.

lighten up, pal. why such a sarcastic response if there was truly 'no offense taken'?

 

[rad]

Many medical students in the first two years skip out on lectures if attendance is not required. You quicly realize that a lot more high-yield studying can be done at home during the day. Then you have the night to do what you want. UIC is a strong med. school and if you look at their match list you will see how succesful the students are at matching into competitive fields and hospitals.

 

[sandflea]

Originally posted by rad:
•Many medical students in the first two years skip out on lectures if attendance is not required. You quicly realize that a lot more high-yield studying can be done at home during the day. Then you have the night to do what you want. UIC is a strong med. school and if you look at their match list you will see how succesful the students are at matching into competitive fields and hospitals.•••

no, i understand that not everyone wants to spend all day in lecture and that they feel their time is best spent doing other things. i'm fine with that. but i have friends in other chicago-area med schools and the majority of students *attend* classes there, even when coop notes are available and lectures last all day. at my UIC interview, all of the students freely talked about how they never went to class (even labs) and how only about 10% of the entire class attended lectures/labs on a regular basis. so it seems to me that there is something in the student culture at UIC that encourages it. is the teaching that bad? what is it? i'm just curious to know why virtually the entire class doesn't go but students at other schools facing similar time crunches do. that's all.

 

[PimplePopperMD]

Originally posted by sandflea:
•

no offense, but frankly i don't think i would want to see a physician that didn't know their way around the human body! is that how it is at UIC?•••

So I missed the point?

Your question in the next post was about the teaching at UIC. It's not great the first two years.

But it is not to imply that "at UIC we don't know our way around the human body". How does that song go? The hip-bone is connected to the... leg bone... the leg bone is connected to the... well, I'll have to review my Netter.

But this is off the point. I think that the original post was about hours in med school, and my response stands: in the first two years, regardless of where you attend (unless attendance is mandatory), you will have a much more flexible schedule. The third year is brutal.

Cheers@!

 

[sandflea]

Originally posted by PimplePopperMD:
•

But it is not to imply that "at UIC we don't know our way around the human body". How does that song go? The hip-bone is connected to the... leg bone... the leg bone is connected to the... well, I'll have to review my Netter.
•••

okay, i can now see how my post might have been misinterpreted. when i asked if that was how things at UIC were, i didn't mean that no one at UIC knew their anatomy--what i meant was, 'is not going to class how it is at UIC?' hey, if you learn anatomy well without going to lab, that's your decision. you do what you need to do to do well. i'm just curious about the not-going-to-class thing that seems especially prevalent at UIC, and i asked my question in follow-up to your post about how easily one can make their own schedule there. geez, i mean no harm here--i'm just trying to get a better feel of the school!

but anyway....

 

[rad]

"i have friends in other chicago-area med schools and the majority of students *attend* classes there"

I graduated from a medical school in chicago other than UIC. Attendance was very good during the first semester of the first year and gradually tailed off to the point where there would be the same 15 people at lecture by the second year. Some review sessions and certain classes had better turnout than that.

 

[joseph-arveson]

Originally posted by sandflea:
•

okay, i can now see how my post might have been misinterpreted. when i asked if that was how things at UIC were, i didn't mean that no one at UIC knew their anatomy--what i meant was, 'is not going to class how it is at UIC?' hey, if you learn anatomy well without going to lab, that's your decision. you do what you need to do to do well. i'm just curious about the not-going-to-class thing that seems especially prevalent at UIC, and i asked my question in follow-up to your post about how easily one can make their own schedule there. geez, i mean no harm here--i'm just trying to get a better feel of the school!

but anyway....•••


Sandflea, maybe you have a feel for the school without even knowing it...

Best to all, JA