It's basically a letter from the program indicating that if you rank them as your top choice you will be guaranteed to match with them based on how high they plan on ranking you.
Child Psychiatry Fellowship 2020-2021
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I’m wondering how programs usually respond to a letter of interest. I recently sent one out and was disappointed to get a pretty generic response back, as people here were already talking about rank-to-match letters. Now I’m wondering if the response I got actually meant “Thanks but no thanks.”
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i wouldn't read into it. I think people should rank programs as they want and programs will do the same. I honestly can't see a letter of interest swaying programs one way or the other.
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Do any of you know how you all are ranking these programs? I have NO idea about the culture of any of these programs since I couldn't actually go there. I got some type of impressions via Zoom, but then I'm talking to other people who tell me programs I thought were nice were actually malignant... If anybody has any insight or any threads to help kinda discuss all these programs - I'd be so thankful <3
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I'd recommend you outreach to fellows/residents at these programs and speak to them privately and ask about these specific things. Maybe this years' residency and fellowship interview cycle will have people ranking more based on geography/social support nearby because of some of these big unknowns.
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I'd get on the horn quickly with the top 3-5 places you are considering and try to find a current fellow who comes across as real and interested in actually helping you make the best decision for yourself. This will be awkward and weird but I guarantee the benefit of finding a good fit for 2 years, people that you will attend AACAP with for the rest of your career, email when you don't know what to do 5 years out of training, etc will easily be worth it. There are just too many places for any one person to be able to answer this question for you, unless you are only looking at programs in one city.
JohnBarnes87
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Do you think a fellowship would rank you if you don't have/failed Step 3? Do you let the program know or just wing it with the match?
If you don't have step 3, they may rank you but a good idea to get it done ASAP. If you failed step 3, they may be more hesitant to. Hard to say.
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my personal opinion is that a program will be very reluctant about ranking someone w/o a passed step 3. i believe you need to have a passed step 3 before you start fellowship (someone please correct me if i'm mistaken). i don't know how a passed step 3 will look like after a failed step 3 though. my guess is that a "pass is a pass." i'm not a PD so take what i say w a grain of salt.
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I had taken but did not have results back from Step 3 which prevented most programs from ranking me at all, strongly recommend having results back. Step 3 is by far the easiest as well, no reason to put it off.
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Hi Everyone,
I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out my ranking for Baylor's CAP program vs. UT-Austin's CAP program
Any information regarding these programs would be extremely helpful.
Some other programs that I am also considering are Tufts & USF.
I am coming from an external program, and possibly thinking of going into private practice afterwards.
Thank you all!
I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out my ranking for Baylor's CAP program vs. UT-Austin's CAP program
Any information regarding these programs would be extremely helpful.
Some other programs that I am also considering are Tufts & USF.
I am coming from an external program, and possibly thinking of going into private practice afterwards.
Thank you all!
How do you know that most programs didn't rank you?
I have similar question about those TX programs myself, and UTSW too. Hoping someone has some insight.
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Are programs sending you emails saying that you are w/in their "matching range?"
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They told me, it's a small world in CAP, particularly in a given city. Fellowship is about making colleagues, not doing cheap labor, at least at any good program. Was very frustrated at my procrastination at the time although it ended up landing me at a program that was a great fit.
That quote was said to me verbally.
No idea what to make of it. My take is, of their 4 spots I'm not 1-4...but I'm ranked. But where? Ugh.
I only interviewed with UT-Austin, and I really liked it with the exception of the APD. He came off really cold and so that moved it down a bit for me.
Not firsthand, but I know of someone at UTSW who reportedly said it was so awful they ultimately did not complete their training there this year.
I would love to chat with someone who has taken a pre-match. I'm really considering taking one what was offered but having a hard time. On the off chance that someone who has taken one is still lurking the forums, please message me!
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not in that position but i say if it is your #1 program go for it. however, if there is another program (or programs) that you would rather go to, might be worth at least giving those programs a shot. i think you need to figure out for yourself if you really want to go to that program and if it is a good fit for you, which only you can decide for yourself. just my personal two cents. others may think otherwise. gluck!
Thanks, very practical advice that I would probably give but hard to take ourselves haha. I think my struggle is that the pre-match, if in match would be at least in my top 3. It's a good program. My #1 is great and my #2 is good but in a better location. I think I'll have to gamble, but just wanted to put it out there because this year is so weird not going places and meeting people in person to really get the sense.
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if you don't pre-match will the #3 program rank you any differently? the match works because if you don't get into your #1 OR #2, then you'll get into your #3. Or does your #3 (prematch program) want to completely fill prior to the match?
They are 100% outside of the match and so I think will fill beforehand. So I guess I would just move to 4 or 5 or 6 etc etc... which is what brought the internal and now external debate.
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is your #1 or your #2 worth the risk? will you regret your decision 5 years later for not having tried?
I think that's the decision I have come to. I have to try or I will always wonder! Thanks for being an objective listener and good luck to you in the match as well!
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Hi guys. If I've emailed my top 2 programs and sent them letters that I am ranking them highly and have had no response from them for the past week... should I consider ranking them lower? Instead I can rank the 2 programs higher that have reached out to me via telephone?
Rank them in the order of your preference. This is the correct only answer to this question.
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Make sure you understand that match algorithm and why it won a Nobel Prize. As the applicant you really want to rank in the actual order you want, it's specifically designed to create the best outcome for you based on that.
Yes I agree with the other posters, always rank in the order that YOU want, regardless of whether they respond or not.
But yes I emailed my top three and told them I'm ranking them highly too but haven't gotten a response from any of them. I didn't specify an actual number because I haven't yet decided what program will 1 2 or 3 yet but anyone have any insight as to why they haven't responded? Is it because I didn't specify whether they would be first? Or is there a rule saying programs can't respond to emails like that? Not even to say "Thanks, we've received your email"?
Not sure about rules but I don't think so. I sent a few emails recently and got a couple of responses and some dead ai. I sent hand written cards to two programs (after confirming with coordinator that people are on site and checking mailboxes) and zero acknowledgement from those- so I'm like fml. Still going to rank how I want and see what happens
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To add in my experience thus far... I told my #1 that I will be ranking them as my first choice in a response email to the PD's post-interview communication. The PD said they will "let the committee know of your sentiments" which is perfectly vague so who knows. I was under the impression there was an explicit rule against programs discussing rank order with applicants (correct me if I'm wrong of course), so perhaps that would explain the lack of responses we're all getting?
And just to reiterate what everyone has said so no one makes the mistake - because of the way the match algorithm works, it is 1000% in our interests to rank in our preferred order regardless of what we think the programs feel about us!
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There's no rule saying programs can't tell you where they ranked you. There is a rule saying that they cannot ask you where you are ranking them.
to me, they're all similar in that it's strong academic programs in large city with Emory and Umiami serving gigantic public hospitals. depends on which area you want to live in I guess. One of them is my home program so I am biased towards one lol
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Did you guys send "I'm ranking you #1" letters directly to the program directors or to the program coordinators? I did the former back in residency but never really knew whether that was kosher (I did get a response back that time but didn't match at my #1 for residency).
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Hi All,
Anyone have any last minute insight on any of the following programs UCLA-Harbor, Georgetown, Children's national, Colorado, LSU, MUSC. Trying to finish up my rank list.
Anyone have any last minute insight on any of the following programs UCLA-Harbor, Georgetown, Children's national, Colorado, LSU, MUSC. Trying to finish up my rank list.
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I interviewed at UCLA-Harbor and UC, so I can only comment on those two:
UCLA-Harbor: county-based program (Low SES population, community-focused, less fancy outpatient facilities), not very research-focused (UCLA resources are available to fellows but likely have to be proactive to take advantage). Admin and PD appeared to be very supportive, stressed being a very laid-back culture with good work-life balance (although does have some overnight home call) and fellows seemed to be very happy overall. It's worth noting that they do not have their own inpatient unit (rotate at UCLA-Semel instead) and supervision and some rotations appeared to be in flux (perhaps this will change by the time we start). Overall seemed to be a nice place to train if you're looking to be in SoCal and are interested in outpatient, working with underserved populations.
Colorado: very strong and balanced training program with diverse clinical and research opportunities. They are the only name in CAP game in that region so you see EVERYTHING (bread and butter as well as Zebra's) and there's a lot of options to rotate in specialty clinics, do interesting electives (advocacy work, rural psych, autism, infancy, etc). Somewhat higher workload than other programs with more call but fellows seemed to feel it provided good training vs just being workhorses. Strong interdisciplinary/SW support was repeatedly stressed during my interview day as well. My overall impression was it is a great place to train and allows fellows to do whatever they want to do post-fellowship (academic, PP, inpatient/acute care, further specialize, etc). Lastly, Denver/Colorado seems to be an awesome place to live.
As always, these are just my personal impressions, so take it for what it's worth. Hope it helps and good luck with match!
UCLA-Harbor: county-based program (Low SES population, community-focused, less fancy outpatient facilities), not very research-focused (UCLA resources are available to fellows but likely have to be proactive to take advantage). Admin and PD appeared to be very supportive, stressed being a very laid-back culture with good work-life balance (although does have some overnight home call) and fellows seemed to be very happy overall. It's worth noting that they do not have their own inpatient unit (rotate at UCLA-Semel instead) and supervision and some rotations appeared to be in flux (perhaps this will change by the time we start). Overall seemed to be a nice place to train if you're looking to be in SoCal and are interested in outpatient, working with underserved populations.
Colorado: very strong and balanced training program with diverse clinical and research opportunities. They are the only name in CAP game in that region so you see EVERYTHING (bread and butter as well as Zebra's) and there's a lot of options to rotate in specialty clinics, do interesting electives (advocacy work, rural psych, autism, infancy, etc). Somewhat higher workload than other programs with more call but fellows seemed to feel it provided good training vs just being workhorses. Strong interdisciplinary/SW support was repeatedly stressed during my interview day as well. My overall impression was it is a great place to train and allows fellows to do whatever they want to do post-fellowship (academic, PP, inpatient/acute care, further specialize, etc). Lastly, Denver/Colorado seems to be an awesome place to live.
As always, these are just my personal impressions, so take it for what it's worth. Hope it helps and good luck with match!
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Good luck everyone with the match!!
Does anyone know when the match results are made available on January 6?
Does anyone know when the match results are made available on January 6?
noon
How is everyone planning to pass the time for the next three weeks while we wait on pins and needles (or maybe I'm just overly anxious) to find out where we will be living and training for the next two years?
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not just you. it's going to be a long three weeks!
Just trying to enjoy the holidays without thinking about it. But it's hard because the countdown is one of the first things I think of in the morning. 9 more days! I have a full clinic day that day and don't think I'll check until I'm home.
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folks, how do we find out where we match tomorrow? will the program be listed in the NRMP website? or will we receive an email? nervous and excited at the same time! gluck to you all!
