Choosing a Prof

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yikes

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Hi,
I've found a professor whose research looks interesting, but I've done a google, pubmed and psychinfo search on him and can only find about 7 articles. does this mean he doesn't publish enough to be a good mentor?

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Hi,
I've found a professor whose research looks interesting, but I've done a google, pubmed and psychinfo search on him and can only find about 7 articles. does this mean he doesn't publish enough to be a good mentor?


No, and that shouldn't matter if your goal is clinical competence rather than academic research. If you want to be a researcher, perhaps this forum isn't for you. The idea behind this forum is for CLINICAL practitioners, not pure researchers. If you found a potentially good match, then make the appropriate contacts and see where it goes. This professor might have done more under collaborative research, or perhaps he/she is a newer PhD and hasn't done much post doctorally.

Also, remember quality is always preferable to quantity in terms of research. I would much rather be affiliated with a quality researcher than a prolific publisher of pablum. Many eggheads publish in order to secure tenure or funding rather than to contribute to the body of knowledge or enhance the profession.
 
If you want to be a researcher, perhaps this forum isn't for you. The idea behind this forum is for CLINICAL practitioners, not pure researchers.

Huh?

You basically just told half the board we shouldn't be here. Last I checked the forum title is "Clinical Psychology" not "Clinical Psychologists who want to go into practice". There's a huge number of people here interested in primarily research careers. If you didn't have 500 posts I'd actually guess you were a troll.

As for the OP, despite ProZacks attitude, he does have a point in that quality matters more than quantity. Find out more about the professor. If he just graduated last year, 7 pubs is a lot. If he's been in the field for 30 years that's another story. I avoided certain professors because they didn't seem to be producing as much as I would like to - opportunity is everything and its hard to be a productive grad student in an otherwise unproductive lab because then you're carrying the entirety of it.
 
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It's quite possible that some of those studies are really in-depth and long-running. I know that my thesis manuscript is going to take at least two more years to even be ready for submission and sure it'll only count as one pub, but it's going to have many studies included in it. Anyone can publish a ton of little studies but if those are 7 really involved ones, I'd say that's really good.

And a note about saying that students interested in primarily research shouldn't be on this forum... I'm not one of those individuals 'cause I personally want a very equal balance in my own career, but who are we to begrudge anyone information just because they want to do research? Research contributes so much to the field and if they didn't do it, everyone who didn't want to do it that much would have to. I'm so sick of this forced rivalry between clinical practice and research.
 
phew! ProZackMI scared me for a minute. thanks for the input. i'm one of those people who want to mix research and patients. so i am leaning towards just picking a prof who's research seems interesting, which seems to be what you guys are suggesting. it just seems like quality of the institution/prof will determine what sort of internship/post doc you get, so i'm having trouble deciding what matters and what doesn't.
 
phew! ProZackMI scared me for a minute. thanks for the input. i'm one of those people who want to mix research and patients. so i am leaning towards just picking a prof who's research seems interesting, which seems to be what you guys are suggesting. it just seems like quality of the institution/prof will determine what sort of internship/post doc you get, so i'm having trouble deciding what matters and what doesn't.

Everyone can (and should!) correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's YOUR performance in grad school that matters more. Sure your prof's reputation and that of your school will matter a bit, but they're looking at your potential to be productive at their site. Internships are mostly clinical experience anyway, or at least that's how I understand it at the moment.
 
Yeah, well, it's all well and good you want to do research, but this forum is STUDENTDOCTOR, not STUDENTACADEMIC or STUDENTRESEARCHER. I'm a psychiatrist, not a psychologist. One of problems I have with "clinical" psychology is that while I believe a good clinician should be skilled in research methodology, he/she should not be trained primarily as a researcher. In other words, I do not support the scientist-practitioner model; it's a dichotomy that in my opinion is unncessarily artificial.

A CLINICAL psychologist should be a practitioner, not an ivory-tower egghead interested in securing tenure. While I don't think near diploma mill PsyD programs are good for the field, the PsyD model is on the right track; it focuses on CLINICAL skills, not research skills.

In every other field, a PhD trains researchers, but somehow, magically, in psychology, it's different and produces scholar-clinicians who are capable of doing both, right? That's laughable. In reality, most PhD psychologists either do clinical work or research; they might vacillate between both early on, but once established professionally, either do practice or research, not both. That doesn't mean psychologists are poorly trained, but I think that's part of the problem in PhD programs in psych; they overemphasize research, research design, stats, and pedagogy, NOT clinical skills, NOT pharmacology, NOT medical/physical assessment, etc.

Perhaps if you earned a professional clinical doctorate, (PsyD) rather than an academic doctorate (PhD), you'd be seen more as health care specialists than glorified SW or "therapists". Your training should be more like that of physicians, attorneys, dentists, optometrists, vets, pharmacists, etc., rather than sociologists, linguists, art historians, and other academics.

How psychologists are trained is going to cause their untimely demise. With managed health care calling the shots, do you honestly think psychologists are going to be reimbursed for talk therapy when clincial research data actually shows psychopharmacological intervention is more cost effective and successful, more often than not, for a myriad of disorders ranging from dysthymia to schizophrenia? Who's going to pay your checks ten years from now? MSWs and LPCs will fill in the psychotherapy gaps, and internists, FPs, and psychiatrists (and even PAs and NPs) will provide the meds.

Psychology is going to become extinct unless you revamp your training. Optometry did. PT did. Audiology did. Unless you guys do it, you'll end up going the way of the Dodo bird.

If you professionalize your training and move away from a standard graduate research degree (PhD) to a clinical professional degree, you'll move into a much needed area. Psychologists have a great deal of skill, no doubt, but the PhD takes too long to complete, is underfunded, and impractical in today's managed care world of health professions. Psychology needs to incorporate more medicine, pharm, phys assessment, and less stats, research, and design in order to maintain credibility and necessity.

So, yeah, I apologize for being harsh about the researchers; they are needed, but I would say more in experimental psychology and research psych programs, not on a clinician-based forum.

Sorry,
Zack
 
This board is CO-hosted by studentdoctor, the other co-host PsychCentral. Plus this board is called "Clinical Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.] For discussion of PsyD or PhD issues." Therefore I think it's acceptable to discuss research.

Your input is interesting, but having an MD parent I've heard it all before. Hopefully it can be of use to someone else.
 
<=== quite happy being a counseling psychology student going for a hardcore research career in academia, thank you very much. My mentor publishes like a demon in top journals. And I love this board, so I won't be going anywhere.

7 pubs is weak. If those are all top top journals or if the prof is VERY new, that might explain it. But if he or she has been out for a while and 7 includes all first author papers and coauthor papers, I'd make that prof at best a backup.

Raynee is right that those might be long-running projects. But.... consider whether you really want to hook up with a prof who does massive longitudinal studies to be your direct advisor. But maybe that prof is open to doing shorter projects with his/her students (although then you would expect more coauthored papers). If Raynee's guess is accurate, is there another person in the department who can be your mentor, and you can collaborate with the other prof on one of the big projects maybe? You're really not going to want to get out of grad school with only one pub under your belt if you're going for academia, even if it is a top journal....
 
This board is CO-hosted by studentdoctor, the other co-host PsychCentral. Plus this board is called "Clinical Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.] For discussion of PsyD or PhD issues." Therefore I think it's acceptable to discuss research.

Your input is interesting, but having an MD parent I've heard it all before. Hopefully it can be of use to someone else.

I'm sure you took your parent's comments to heart. Look, I'm not trying to bash you or your desire to be a researcher. I'm trying to give you some constructive insight into the dilemma your chosen profession is going to face in the future. Dismiss my comments, but remember one thing, Professor, most PhDs, from all disciplines, end up looking for secure, tenure-track jobs in academia with little success. Read the Chronicle of Higher Ed. There are PhDs from Ivy League schools whoring themselves out as adjuncts and living below poverty with no health care coverage, no sick leave, no vacation time, and NO MONEY!

How many jobs in academia do you think there are? What fields in academia are hot right now, or will be hot in the next 10-20 years? I can tell you one that's NOT: PSYCHOLOGY. Biotech, pharmacology, I/O psych, chem, biochem, microbiology, biomed engr, cybernetics, specialized physics, bioethics...and a few other fields are hot now, psychology is NOT.

Your PhD in clinical psychology might land you a gig as an adjunct at a mediocre state school, or better yet, a community college. Great use of your education.

If academia is what you want, great...but be prepared for politics for tenure, trying to get in the door, and poor return on your educational investment. In addition, if research is your bag, why not get your doc in exp, dev, or another area of psych...why bother with clinical when that's not your thing?
 
^ What's a psychiatrist doing trolling the psychology boards?
 
^ What's a psychiatrist doing trolling the psychology boards?

Collecting data to publish a paper on some estoteric irrelevant subject matter in some obscure journal that no one will read and that will contribute nothing to the body of knowledge or advance the discipline in any way, shape or form.
 
Collecting data to publish a paper on some estoteric irrelevant subject matter in some obscure journal that no one will read and that will contribute nothing to the body of knowledge or advance the discipline in any way, shape or form.

Great. Why don't you start a new thread to do that and see if anyone cares in there, instead of hijacking yikes' thread to go on rants, dude?

I hope yikes felt helped by the other posts, at least.:)
 
...Psychology is going to become extinct unless you revamp your training. Optometry did. PT did. Audiology did. Unless you guys do it, you'll end up going the way of the Dodo bird...

I think you had some good points although they might get missed by being posted in this thread. On another note, can you tell me more about the part I just quoted? What revamped training did Optometry and PT undertake?
 
Great. Why don't you start a new thread to do that and see if anyone cares in there, instead of hijacking yikes' thread to go on rants, dude?

I hope yikes felt helped by the other posts, at least.:)

Ditto - I actually agree with some of the things proZack said (about the nature of clinical PhD programs), but he's completely off topic. Why not start another thread? There are a lot of research-oriented discussions on this board, and I hope proZack isn't planning on interrupting them all. Unless an MOD says otherwise, those of us who are more research-oriented have every right to post on the subject.

On topic - yikes, there's a nice chapter in the book Getting What You Came For on choosing a mentor. It discusses the pros and cons of working with newer vs older profs, for example. Also, unless you really need to narrow your list of schools, I would go ahead and apply. If you really like this person's research, than that's enough for now - you can worry about their productivity level once you get accepted!
 
i chose clinical psychology over med school (and ultimately psychiatry) because I had quite a few professors doing what I want: teach, research, AND clinical. i will not settle for less. plus, we are revamping...why do you think some states are already letting some of us RxP?
 
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