Choosing a school and Debt. Pt 2.

[exmike]

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At this point, I'm going to have to choose between Ohio State and Case Western. I'm going to have to pay for nearly all of my education, and I think that over four years Ohio State will turn out to be 60-80K less than Case Western.

Do you guys think that CWRU is worth 80K more than Ohio State? Lets just put aside personal preferences here for a sec and just consider cost vs. quality of education and reputation.

I'm sure many ohio residents have this dilemma every year. Please chime in.

 

[AlternateSome1]

What residency do you want to go into? If you want something highly competitive, then go to Case, suck up the loan, and then make enough to pay it back quickly. If you want to be a general practitioner, then go to Ohio State. You will pay less and still get a fine education.

~AS1~

 

[docquaker]

exmike, i pmed you.

 

[ckent]

I don't know too much about either school because I've never been to either one, but their reputation in academic circles is pretty equal. I wouldn't choose one because one happens to be a few spots higher then the other one on US News (I don't even know which one is higher, I assume that Case is), no program director sits with a US News in his lap while evaluating applicants. I'd definitely go with OSU over Case.

 

[Ludy]

I have to disagree with the above post. IMHO, Case has a better rep than Ohio State by far (more than US News would suggest). A lot of the prestige factor, both in evaluating med schools and residency programs, depends on undergraduate prestige, as silly as that is. If you're considering an academic career in any specialty or a competitive specialty, I'd go with CWRU. Actually, unless you're 100% set on FP or psych, I'd choose CWRU.

I was told by residency directors at my school in 3 different fields that the number one factor they look at is med school reputation. People always say that a great student from a mediocre state school has a better chance than an average student from a top-20 school, but does anyone actually believe that? Name counts for a lot, right or wrong, and as long as you'd be happy at either, I'd choose the better name. Yeah, it's a lot of money, but you're paying for more opportunities when you're done. I also talked to a few physician recruiters about the importance of prestige and they told me the graduate from a more prestigious program would be able to command a higher salary. So you may gain it all back in the end...

 

[medschoolorbust]

OSU. It's where I did undergrad, and their medical center is phenomenal. A larger school offers more opportunities as well. Why pay that much more money for a name, when you can receive excellent training at a major research university (OSU)? I turned down a half-tuition scholarship for undergrad at Case, because full tuition at Ohio State was cheaper. I don't regret it a bit.

 

[meanderson]

I don't think the national rep is that different between the two schools. Certainly not 80k different.

Family practice or psych? Anyone who has taken a look at OSU's match list over the last five years would know that they aren't placing many graduates into these fields. You're going to be virtually as competitive coming from OSU as you would from case.
I don't know why people assume that most state schools are placing lots of US grads into primary care....they aren't.

OSU actually gives you more options in the long run. What if you decide you really like neurology during your rotations.....going to be harder to do something like that when you're 180k in debt. If the costs were equal I'd pick the school based on things like whether I like columbus, which cirriculum I like better, etc. But 80k?? I'd go to OSU in a second.

 

[osar92]

I am in the same position right now of choosing between OSU and Case. As of now I am leaning towards OSU, mainly becuase of tuition reasons. They are both great schools with great clinical exposures, tons of opportunities for research and yada yada yada. I think that saving all that tuition money by going to OSU will be a big help a few years down the line. I dont think there is any disadvantage to going to OSU instead of Case... both schools place graduates in decently competitive residencies. But I may be a little more partial to OSU, seeing as I am at undergrad here as well. As little bit higher Case is in the rankings, its definitely not worth 80k more to me.

 

[elias514]

Currently, there is no significant difference between Case and Ohio with respect to prestige. However, the Cleveland Clinic and Case have recently started a partnership in education, which means that Case students will do their clinical rotations at Cleveland Clinic, an internationally respected hospital (right up there with Hopkins). The fact that Case students will do their rotations at the Clinic will undoubtedly boost the overall reputation of Case--certainly with respect to the quality of clinical training.

The bright future of Case notwithstanding, I still think that both schools offer excellent educations and opportunities for career advancement. If you graduate in the top quartile of your class from either place, earn a high score on Step 1, and honor the right courses and clerkships, you can land a top residency spot just about anywhere.

If I had to choose between the two right now, I would attend Case, simply because of the partnership between it and Cleveland Clinic. But you really can't go wrong at either place. Focus on curriculum, location, student testimonials, price tag, and your gut feeling. You'll make the right decision that way.

 

[J33]

I've got similar decisions to make, so I'll just add one fact. If you check out the match lists from both schools over the last several years, you'll see that OSU has actually placed more people into the Cleveland Clinic than Case did (at least it appears that way). The matchlist overall seems to be a little better at Case, but I'm struggling to separate these two schools myself. Based on all the med students I've talked to, many students chose OSU over Case.

 

[Kashue]

Originally posted by J33
I've got similar decisions to make, so I'll just add one fact. If you check out the match lists from both schools over the last several years, you'll see that OSU has actually placed more people into the Cleveland Clinic than Case did (at least it appears that way).

That should change since Clinic has changed affiliations from OSU to Clinic. Clinic will no longer take OSU students.

 

[J33]

That's a good point Kashue. Do you suppose that the reason that more OSU students ended up in Cleveland Clinic residencies is because they were allowed to do clerkships there? Also, were Case students allowed to do Clinic clerkships before? And will OSU students be allowed to do Clinic clerkships in the future, or does the Clinic-Case affiliation rule out all other schools?

 

[Kashue]

Originally posted by J33
That's a good point Kashue. Do you suppose that the reason that more OSU students ended up in Cleveland Clinic residencies is because they were allowed to do clerkships there?

Undoubtedly. Networking plays a role wherever you are.

Also, were Case students allowed to do Clinic clerkships before? And will OSU students be allowed to do Clinic clerkships in the future, or does the Clinic-Case affiliation rule out all other schools?

Case's University Hospitals were in competition with Clinic. Case students were probably allowed to do an away clerkship at Clinic, but not their 3rd and 4th years there like OSU. That's now changed since Clinic is now affiliated with Case. OSU students that are currently there said they are the last group.

 

[exmike]

wow, thanks for all the replies.

The impression I get is that Case's reputation is better that OSU's although OSU has a good reputation as is. That reputation may be the edge I need to get into a competitive residency, and is that edge worth 60-80k?

 

[meanderson]

ex-mike,

what do you consider a competitive residency? derm at mass general? Ortho at Hopkins?

If you are dead set on that type of residency(super select field at a super super select hospital), then it *might* be worth the extra money. I still think a person with 235+ step 1 scores, AOA, good letters, etc would be equally competitive for truly elite programs coming from either school. Notice that for dermatology in particular there seems to be only 0-3 matches on average at most all schools. It's not until you get to Yale, WashU, and Harvard that you consistently find 5-8+ derm matches.

Take a closer look at OSU's match lists over the last 5 years. I would say that a large % of the residencies are competitive. A similar % compared to Case. Fields like orthopedics, urology, and radiology OSU are well represented. I'd consider these matches in most university programs to be competitive.

Honestly, and I know this has been beaten to death on here, but I think people really overestimate the importance of medical school "reputation". My last interview was at a school which might not even rank in the top 100 were the rankings to extend that far, and all of the students with solid step 1 scores were interviewing and expecting to match at whatever programs they wanted to. Duke for IM, Mayo for radiology, one guy was expecting to match orthopedics at a solid university program somewhere. I didn't see any dermatology or radiation oncology matches and I don't know of any at this school in recent years, but how many students are really concerned about these two small fields?

 

[SoulRFlare]

What do people think about case vs. cinci? (hehe...there seem to be a lot of case vs... posts.) personally, I love case and am extremely excited about the prospect of going there, but the thought of the additional debt puts a damper on my enthusiasm.

oh, and bump...😉

 

[xaelia]

I've actually heard the Cleveland Clinic isn't a very friendly place to do rotations; their medical education emphasis is placed on fellows and the research money those postdoctoral positions bring into the institution. Obviously, if your dream is to do a high-powered academic residency at that particular one of the top institutions in the world, a properly motivated individual at Case will have an advantage over someone at OSU.

Though, it's always entertaining to see folks choosing medical schools based on their impressions of prestige - unless you're the sort of person whose four years of school will be markedly improved by being able to wake up and pat yourself on the back for attending a particular school, you'll discover that you're probably in the 80% of the class that's not stupidly crazy and hyperinvolved and the most important thing is finding a good bar to hit after exams. You'll find soon enough that to be the guy/girl gets honors first and second year, aces Step I and gets the IM residency at MGH or UCSF you'd have to be the guy living between the library and the research lab...and sheesh, who wants to live the rest of their lives that way?