Choosing the Caribbean for the Location

[Lonelion87]

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Does anyone think it would be a really bad idea to choose a Caribbean school for the quality of life?

The impression I am getting from the 'success stories' are that if you are a good student and you work hard, you will end up where you want to be after returning to the U.S. from vacation-land.



So, why not opt to live in the tropics for a few years? It sure beats places like Baltimore, and New Haven, CT.

 

[georgelucas45]

If you want to aim for a caribbean school instead of the mayo clinic, thats up to you. I would much rather be in the states, even if it was the middle of nowhere. Podunk, USA will most likely take the residency spot of a Caribbean grad with the same stats. Keep this in mind before you want to go "vacationing" in the islands... If you think it's gonna be an easy breeze getting through a caribbean med school, you've got another thing coming.

 

[Meatwad]

Yeah, living on a third-world island full of people that resent your money, has huge bugs, and is in a very dangerous location as far as hurricanes goes sounds like an awesome location...

 

[Lonelion87]

If you think it's gonna be an easy breeze getting through a caribbean med school, you've got another thing coming

My post dealt with the location. I made no assumptions that the work there is easy.

Yeah, living on a third-world island full of people that resent your money, has huge bugs, and is in a very dangerous location as far as hurricanes goes sounds like an awesome location...

Yeah, living in a sub-par high-rise (with the possibility of its own nasty bugs), where it isn't entirely safe to go out jogging in the streets mid-day, and where it certainly isn't safe to go jogging past dusk sounds like an awesome location too. Unless you live in one of Daddy's condos, most students out there can't afford luxury in the major urban centers.


Any caribbean students out there have an opinion on quality of life at your school?

 

[oldpro]

My post dealt with the location. I made no assumptions that the work there is easy.



Yeah, living in a sub-par high-rise (with the possibility of its own nasty bugs), where it isn't entirely safe to go out jogging in the streets mid-day, and where it certainly isn't safe to go jogging past dusk sounds like an awesome location too. Unless you live in one of Daddy's condos, most students out there can't afford luxury in the major urban centers.


Any caribbean students out there have an opinion on quality of life at your school?

Sure,
quality of life was very good on My island (Bonaire) but its the rest of your life thats more important.

Yes practice is the goal and I will practice but within some lifetime limitations:

IE: Cannot practice in Cali, Limited to Primary practice (Competitive residencies are very tough to get)

At 43 these things mean nothing to me since I want FP but to a much younger person you should not worry so much about the short term worry on the future and the best possible future comes from a US medical school.

You will learn that at 20, 22 and 24 you have a lot of trouble with vision of the future the immediate here and now seems more important.

Yesterday was 25 to me at 43!

 

[lobelsteve]

When I was at SGU, I had friends at Syracuse. 90 degrees and sunny vs 5 degrees and walking up the "habitrails" to class. No one should choose the caribbean over the LCME schools because of the scenery. The red tape hassle with licensure, the bias against you, and the perceived dangers in the caribbean do not outweigh the US degree.

That being said, I am a better doctor for going to SGU, I worked harder than if I did go to a US school because I had something to prove, and I would not trade the experience for anything. I had more fun in Grenada and St Vincents than I could have anywhere else in the world. I met some incredible people from "all over" who lived or vacationed in the islands. I have stories to tell my kids and grandkids (25 years from now). I think I may have been a pirate, an expatrioted american, a secret agent, and a real doctor while completing my first and 2nd years. I could not trade that life experience in for 4 years at Harvard Med. The way things turned out for me, I would not have done it any other way.

 

[billydoc]

Why not apply to med schools in the Southern U.S? If you have the grades and stats to get in I'd really recomend it. Look, the "vacation" land gets real old real fast with the stress of med school, dealing with issues of 3rd World, and most islands are Hurricane-prone. I also lived through 6.7 magnitude earthkquake with never stopping atershocks. Most of these islands are the extinct volcanos, but could awaken at any time (i.e AUC moving from Monserrate to Sint Maarten) after bing fried by volcano erruption. I think you'll find Florida weather just as tropical without giving up your sanity and most amenities. Obviously there are many more States you could try. Don't set yourself up for the unneccessary hurdles of being IMG. If you can't get in allo go D.O, but stay in the States.

Good Luck

Does anyone think it would be a really bad idea to choose a Caribbean school for the quality of life?

The impression I am getting from the 'success stories' are that if you are a good student and you work hard, you will end up where you want to be after returning to the U.S. from vacation-land.



So, why not opt to live in the tropics for a few years? It sure beats places like Baltimore, and New Haven, CT.

 

[AllIn4Life]

dont fool urself into choosing caribbean for location...remember that this is a backdoor opporunity for MD and if you can get in from the front door (US med school) u'd be the biggest idiot not to take it

 

[Lonelion87]

Why not apply to med schools in the Southern U.S? If you have the grades and stats to get in I'd really recomend it. Look, the "vacation" land gets real old real fast with the stress of med school, dealing with issues of 3rd World, and most islands are Hurricane-prone. I also lived through 6.7 magnitude earthkquake with never stopping atershocks. Most of these islands are the extinct volcanos, but could awaken at any time (i.e AUC moving from Monserrate to Sint Maarten) after bing fried by volcano erruption. I think you'll find Florida weather just as tropical without giving up your sanity and most amenities. Obviously there are many more States you could try. Don't set yourself up for the unneccessary hurdles of being IMG. If you can't get in allo go D.O, but stay in the States.

Good Luck

Yeah, perhaps I was being a bit on the idealistic side with my first post. One thing to consider, though, is that I am a Canadian citizen. While I have an American high school diploma, and will be graduating from an American university, I am at a big disadvantage with all of the state schools. If I can't apply to a state school, the main stream route is the private institutions. It seems to me the majority of the private medical colleges are really selective!

I'm a Junior with a 3.63 GPA/ 3.72 BCMP in Honors-Bio, but I have yet to take the MCAT (Spring '08). I'm positive I could get in a state school with these stats and a solid MCAT, provided I was a resident of that state. I dunno, I'm guessing I am trying to rationalize the possibility that I may have to go foreign to get an M.D.

 

[DyersEve]

Do you have a Green Card? Most osteopathic med schools are private and not uber-selective. However, they do prefer to take people from the region. For example, VCOM gives preference to people from the Appalachian states. Most osteopathic med schools' mission is to produce primary care physicians in their general area, which is usually rural.

Their stats are much lower than allopathic schools. Most schools' average MCATs are in the 24 range. You wouldn't even be considered for an interview at most allopathic schools with a 24. Also their GPAs are lower. However, the competition is getting much stiffer. Although the average stats are relatively low, almost all the schools receive 1000s of applicants to fill 150-200 spots.

 

[Lonelion87]

I do not have a green card, no. I am thinking of applying for residency status upon graduation, though (I will have been in the states for 6 years of school after that. 2 High School + 4 College). Maybe I'll be able to jump through a loop-hole somewhere?

I have looked at the D.O. programs and...ah...I dunno, I can't keep from thinking it is kind of 'hokey' compared to the M.D. I have started to look through the Osteopath forums to see what it is really like, but I'll see what I can dig up. Do they really place D.O. higher than IMGs in the USA ?

 

[Meatwad]

I do not have a green card, no. I am thinking of applying for residency status upon graduation, though (I will have been in the states for 6 years of school after that. 2 High School + 4 College). Maybe I'll be able to jump through a loop-hole somewhere?

I have looked at the D.O. programs and...ah...I dunno, I can't keep from thinking it is kind of 'hokey' compared to the M.D. I have started to look through the Osteopath forums to see what it is really like, but I'll see what I can dig up. Do they really place D.O. higher than IMGs in the USA ?

DOs say yes, IMGs say no. It's a big pissing contest. Fact is, SGU/Ross/AUC/Saba are pretty well established in the Northeast, as are DOs. The tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT) and PA have a good amount of DOs practicing. People from good Carib schools do match into competitive specialties, but usually only one or two people. Evey year, however, many DOs match into competitive specialties (derm, uro, rads, ophtho). This is not just because they are US grads (albeit DOs), but also because of the nature of their residencies. DOs can apply to two types of residencies: osteopathic and allopathic ones. Because of this, they have a great advantage over a Caribbean MD. D steopathic residencies do not consider MDs, whether they are from the Ross or Johns Hopkins or McGill.

Most would say go DO over IMG. Statistically, you are more likely to get a competitive residency that way.

 

[pavel_freidman]

The problem with asking advice on a site like this is that everyone and their mother can post a reply. I have found that oftentimes what is said comes purely from speculation and bias without any valid investigation into the response. For instance, here is the match list for Ross students this past year: http://www.rossu.edu/files/2007ResidencyList.pdf. Seems to be a few more than one or two matches there.

Now, here's the deal. There are certainly difficulties that IMG's face and US grads do not purely as a result of the address of the school. Namely, the most competetive residencies are for the most part unobtainable in the traditional manner by IMG's because there are so many top US grads in line for the extremely limited number of positions available. That being said, don't expect to match derm or plastics just because you go to school in the US. Nowadays, more and more IMG's are gaining competetive residencies in comparision to years passed.

Despite acknowledging a shortage of physicians in the US, US medical schools have not adequately admitted enough students to fill all of the available residencies each year. General surgery is a prime example of this. Who helps fill these vacancies? IMG's.

Although IMG's are finding themselves more competetive residencies each year, there still exists a grave skew when it comes to the match. What this means is that although both US and Carribean medical schools lead you toward an MD and eventual specialty, think of the US school as the A to B route while Carribean schools are the scenic route that can sometimes have a few detours depending on your performance and desired specialty.

I hope this helps you. I really think you should take advantage of your opportunity to attend a US school if possible so you have an immediate advantage in terms of the match.

 

[oldpro]

The problem with asking advice on a site like this is that everyone and their mother can post a reply. I have found that oftentimes what is said comes purely from speculation and bias without any valid investigation into the response. ................

I take exception as should several on this thread, I know these people and one poster is Board Certified Lic MD that went to the Caribbean I think His posts carry weight as does mine since I'm a 3rd year Caribbean student.

I see you are also a Medical Student, At Ross I guess? Are you past Basic Sci yet? Its a long road if not good Luck

 

[oldpro]

Does anyone think it would be a really bad idea to choose a Caribbean school for the quality of life?

The impression I am getting from the 'success stories' are that if you are a good student and you work hard, you will end up where you want to be after returning to the U.S. from vacation-land.



So, why not opt to live in the tropics for a few years? It sure beats places like Baltimore, and New Haven, CT.

I think the bottom line is.............Go to the Caribbean if you cannot attend a US school. Your future is much more secure from a US School.

 

[Lonelion87]

The problem with asking advice on a site like this is that everyone and their mother can post a reply. I have found that oftentimes what is said comes purely from speculation and bias without any valid investigation into the response.

First of all, thank you for the level-handed reply. I agree that anyone can get on here and say their piece, but at the same time there is really no where else to turn for a 'reality' check with these sorts of things.

I checked out the match list...there are some big-time hospitals on there.

What this means is that although both US and Carribean medical schools lead you toward an MD and eventual specialty, think of the US school as the A to B route while Carribean schools are the scenic route that can sometimes have a few detours depending on your performance and desired specialty.

I don't understand how anyone can have a good idea of what specialty they want before actually being fully immersed in that specialty via their experiences in medical school. To me, shadowing as a pre-med just doesn't cut it. It is just a brief snapshot of the specialty. I don't believe any Pre-Meds on here when they say they want to go into x-y-z.

I have shadowed in a private practice setting, an emergency clinic, and an operating room. They ALL seem really interesting and exciting in their own ways. I have heard it is wise to pick your medical college based on the institution's strengths. How can I accurately do this with the brief experience that I have had? How can anyone? I feel like I am preparing to jump off the deep end with a blindfold on.

While I agree that choosing a Caribbean program over a US program would be ill-advised, I would still feel (pre-med ego talking?) more comfortable choosing a Caribbean M.D. than an American D.O.

I admit, I am biased towards the M.D., but if I ever wanted to return to Canada I would have to jump through less hoops if I had the M.D. I am not trying to undermine the D.O. in anyway, it is just part of my situation.

 

[oldpro]

First of all, thank you for the level-handed reply. I agree that anyone can get on here and say their piece, but at the same time there is really no where else to turn for a 'reality' check with these sorts of things.

I checked out the match list...there are some big-time hospitals on there.



I don't understand how anyone can have a good idea of what specialty they want before actually being fully immersed in that specialty via their experiences in medical school. To me, shadowing as a pre-med just doesn't cut it. It is just a brief snapshot of the specialty. I don't believe any Pre-Meds on here when they say they want to go into x-y-z.

I have shadowed in a private practice setting, an emergency clinic, and an operating room. They ALL seem really interesting and exciting in their own ways. I have heard it is wise to pick your medical college based on the institution's strengths. How can I accurately do this with the brief experience that I have had? How can anyone? I feel like I am preparing to jump off the deep end with a blindfold on.

While I agree that choosing a Caribbean program over a US program would be ill-advised, I would still feel (pre-med ego talking?) more comfortable choosing a Caribbean M.D. than an American D.O.

I admit, I am biased towards the M.D., but if I ever wanted to return to Canada I would have to jump through less hoops if I had the M.D. I am not trying to undermine the D.O. in anyway, it is just part of my situation.

It's your Life do what you think you must. and is best for you.
Good Luck

 

[Meatwad]

I admit, I am biased towards the M.D., but if I ever wanted to return to Canada I would have to jump through less hoops if I had the M.D. I am not trying to undermine the D.O. in anyway, it is just part of my situation.

If you do plan on practicing back home in Canada, than the DO vs IMG route is a more complicated one, indeed. DOs can go back and get full practice rights in Canada, but it sounds like an annoying process and would probably be misunderstood by a lot of the general public (they might think you are just a glorified chiropractor). I think this is a big reason why there are a lot of Canadians at Carib schools that probably would have had a good shot at US osteopathic schools.

However, I've heard Canada isn't exactly the most IMG-friendly country either.

Just curious, why aren't you considering Canadian schools? I know getting in there is even worse than America, but your GPA doesn't need much work; with another year of straight A's you could probably get it up to around 3.8 overall, right? A 3.8 with a high MCAT should at least give you a shot, I would think.

 

[Lonelion87]

If you do plan on practicing back home in Canada, than the DO vs IMG route is a more complicated one, indeed. DOs can go back and get full practice rights in Canada, but it sounds like an annoying process and would probably be misunderstood by a lot of the general public (they might think you are just a glorified chiropractor).

You are right about this. I don't think it is far-fetched to think that the public could group osteopathic medicine with chiropractors and other health fields, like 'herbal' medicine. It is unfortunate, but that is the current status. Canadians are notoriously stubborn when it comes to influences from our southern neighbors. It will take some time before DOs get the respect they deserve in Canada.

Just curious, why aren't you considering Canadian schools? I know getting in there is even worse than America, but your GPA doesn't need much work; with another year of straight A's you could probably get it up to around 3.8 overall, right? A 3.8 with a high MCAT should at least give you a shot, I would think.

I am considering Canadian schools too, but like you have said, it isn't a pretty picture. Canadian Adcoms are more numbers-oriented when it comes to admissions. The 'bookworm' would have trouble getting in to the top 25 schools in the states, whereas in Canada, the bookworm would be greeted with open arms by a number of our institutions. By the time I graduate, I will have a slew of ECs, research experience, and solid time logged in clinical settings. But these things will only help me if I get past the GPA and MCAT cut offs. At UofT, for example, the publicized cut-offs are upwards of around 3.8, and 32 for the MCAT. They only look at the rest of the application if you survive this screen. These stats are comparable to the average accepted stats at many top U.S. schools! How ridiculous is that? Another complication is that I come from a small liberal arts college. Mind you, it is in the top 15 in the states, but to the Canucks all I will get is raised eyebrows and perplexed facial expressions.

"Where is that, exactly? Is it like a 'community college'?"

I have two semesters left of work that will appear in my verified AMCAS GPA. I would have to pull off a a stellar fall semester abroad (I heading off to London, UK) and a spring semester (Biochem, Physiology, yikes.) to survive the Canadian applicants' meat grinder. All I can do is work hard and let the cards fall where they may, I suppose!

 

[pavel_freidman]

I take exception as should several on this thread, I know these people and one poster is Board Certified Lic MD that went to the Caribbean I think His posts carry weight as does mine since I'm a 3rd year Caribbean student.

I see you are also a Medical Student, At Ross I guess? Are you past Basic Sci yet? Its a long road if not good Luck

oldpro, in no way am I saying that there are not qualified opinions being posted in this forum on a day to day basis. What I am saying is that those educated and worthwhile opinions can get lost in the muck of ignorance and hearsay. There is no requirement here to base anything you say on fact or to cite a reference. All things considered, ultimately it comes down to the person reading to research each statement the best they can to confirm or deny its validity. In other words, I meant no offense to you and I apologize if you perceived my words as an attack on you. I also wish you luck and much success as an MD.

Lonelion87- I have four specialties in mind right now. In other words, I have no idea what I'm going to be doing. Only time and exposure to the profession through rotations will help me make that decision. So, forcing yourself to speculate as to what direction you want to head before stepping foot inside the classroom certainly won't do you justice. On the other hand, there are some students who do have a good idea of what area of medicine they would like to pursue and if that is the case with you, you can use that to you advantage when deciding on a school. Just as a general rule of thumb however, if you think that derm, ENT, plastics, or optho are areas you might want to pursue, be forewarned that being an IMG severely inhibits your chance of a match right now.

 

[pavel_freidman]

One more thing... whatever degree you choose, MD or DO, those will be the letters after your name for life. So if it's an ego thing, I think you have your answer. Otherwise, know that DO's are growing in numbers and reputation in this country and essentially are entitled to all privledges of an MD. Before, there were very few schools for them (although there aren't a ton now either) and their numbers were much smaller, so naturally the public was not familiar with the practice. That doesn't mean its inferior, just not appearing in any pop culture quiz shows. The coming years will certainly put an end to that as DO schools expand and multiply, putting a higher percentage of DO's in hospitals around the country.

 

[CTrainSJU]

One more thing... whatever degree you choose, MD or DO, those will be the letters after your name for life. So if it's an ego thing, I think you have your answer. Otherwise, know that DO's are growing in numbers and reputation in this country and essentially are entitled to all privledges of an MD. Before, there were very few schools for them (although there aren't a ton now either) and their numbers were much smaller, so naturally the public was not familiar with the practice. That doesn't mean its inferior, just not appearing in any pop culture quiz shows. The coming years will certainly put an end to that as DO schools expand and multiply, putting a higher percentage of DO's in hospitals around the country.

Agreed pavel. As a member of the osteopathic community I now respect the education provided by a DO school a lot more. In the future I would like to see MD's accept DO's as their equal instead of feeling they are somehow superior, which I feel alot of them do and there is some evidence of that sporadically throughout this thread. The curriculum is just as rigorous, the school that I am at has great rotations with plenty of time for electives in years 3 and 4, and they place people in very competitive residencies. Reading some of the comments made by some MD's, or MD hopefuls, has only sensitized me more to the fact that I can never pass judgement on someone because of where they have been educated, only on how effectively and compassionately they treat their patients.

 

[dr aaron]

D.O. this, IMG that...look, when it comes to getting a competitive residency you want, it is all about the connections you have.....for instance, a friend of mine matched optho a couple of years ago from a carib school....3 guys from SGU matched orthopedics last year, heck, a guy from St. James matched Radiology last year......this debate is rediculous

 

[oldpro]

D.O. this, IMG that...look, when it comes to getting a competitive residency you want, it is all about the connections you have.....for instance, a friend of mine matched optho a couple of years ago from a carib school....3 guys from SGU matched orthopedics last year, heck, a guy from St. James matched Radiology last year......this debate is rediculous

Another is in a NY residency also (From SJSM) as you grow and mature as a Medstudent you realize how silly all these debates become, thats why I changed to "Practice is the goal" any way you can get there is fine IMO

MD, DO, USA, Europe, Caribbean, Big 4 or Little 30 it does not matter once you are out and practicing

 

[GaryM]

Does anyone think it would be a really bad idea to choose a Caribbean school for the quality of life?

The impression I am getting from the 'success stories' are that if you are a good student and you work hard, you will end up where you want to be after returning to the U.S. from vacation-land.



So, why not opt to live in the tropics for a few years? It sure beats places like Baltimore, and New Haven, CT.

Quality of life! HA -- that's the biggest joke I've heard in my life. Don't think it's like being on a resort when you're living down here. Being on vacation here and living here are two totally different things. Remember you are in a third world country. You'll have to put up with flight delays and lost luggage -- and that's even before you get settled in. Once you're here get used to not having running water frequently, black outs, unreliable internet, not having some of the "luxuries" that you take for granted back home, and things getting done at an extremely slow place. It's okay when things are running smooth, but when something goes wrong (and trust me it will!) be prepared to deal with alot of frustration to get whatever it is fixed or corrected. And believe me, once you're down here, you'll be counting the days, if not minutes, until you are back home. I wish I was in Baltimore or New Haven!

Please do not base your decision on thinking that the quality of life here is better, because if you come here thinking that, you are in for the shock of your life.

 

[bulletproof]

Quality of life! HA -- that's the biggest joke I've heard in my life. Don't think it's like being on a resort when you're living down here. Being on vacation here and living here are two totally different things. Remember you are in a third world country. You'll have to put up with flight delays and lost luggage -- and that's even before you get settled in. Once you're here get used to not having running water frequently, black outs, unreliable internet, not having some of the "luxuries" that you take for granted back home, and things getting done at an extremely slow place. It's okay when things are running smooth, but when something goes wrong (and trust me it will!) be prepared to deal with alot of frustration to get whatever it is fixed or corrected. And believe me, once you're down here, you'll be counting the days, if not minutes, until you are back home. I wish I was in Baltimore or New Haven!

Please do not base your decision on thinking that the quality of life here is better, because if you come here thinking that, you are in for the shock of your life.

Haha....this sounds suspiciously like a disgruntled Ross student.😉 Hang in there bud. Once you get back to the states, you may even have some fond memories. I know, I know....at this stage you think thats impossible, and you just can't wait to finish. Trust me, I can empathise. But, overall I agree with you. Going to the islands for med. school is not nearly as idyllic as it sounds. Still, and all, I would do it again. Maybe AUC though, if I could get past having "caribbean" in my degree. St. Maarten kicks Dominicas gluteal.

 

[oldpro]

Quality of life! HA -- that's the biggest joke I've heard in my life. .......................................

Please do not base your decision on thinking that the quality of life here is better, because if you come here thinking that, you are in for the shock of your life.

Yes I agree the Caribbean is a means to an end for most of us not a choice at all.
Come on Vacation not medical school!!!!!
Peace!