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Cincinnati job market

Gavanshir

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Hello, I'm wondering if anyone currently works in Cincy or has familiarity with the job market. I expect to move there this year and wondering how best to go about learning about the various employers (UC vs Trihealth vs Christ, etc). This will be my first job out of CAP training. Thanks.
 

sluox

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I only looked there for academic. UC doesn't pay well. Melissa Delbello definitely sounded like a really nice person (when I was on the phone with her) and is very easy to work with and is most certainly academically very accomplished, but frankly, she's underpaid at 290k. You can imagine what your salary will be. That said, there might be ways to do a private practice on the side to make extra money.

 
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whopper

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The academic situation there is pretty good. UC is a great program and many of the psychiatrists stay in the area and practice there. Why does this matter if you don't go into academia? There's more great psychiatrists. The bar is higher and that can translate to you having more job satisfaction.

A problem, however, is the shortage of psychiatrists, while still going on in Cincinnati isn't as hard as it is in other areas of the midwest. For this reason, private-practice there isn't going to garner you as much money as quickly as areas that are much more bare. Oh yes there's bare areas, even as close as just 30+ minutes away.

she's underpaid at 290k
Well you know that she was making money through other, ahem, other means....

Getting back to the salary, if you do good work you'll get bonuses but it won't match private practice. The retirement system rocks. Since you're a professor and it's a state school you are set up with the equivalent of a teacher's retirement where you get healthcare and half your salary for the rest of your life if you put in 20 years. Some docs manipulate the system by working way harder their last 2 years cause it's half of the last 2 years salary. So it's great but you're locked in if you want that retirement package. You got to factor in 20 years is a long time. You might want out later on but then be forced to stay in cause you're riding on that retirement package.

I used to work at UC. A problem with making more money outside of UC is they won't let you. Seriously. You can't do private practice if you work at UC. You can't do anything outside of UC if you're a UC professor. If you want to work more they will get you other side gigs but they will all be under the UC mantle. This may have changed but while I was at UC this was the rule and it was going on strong at least until about 6 years ago.

UC does open a lot of doors. E.g. I was offered way more forensic work and being a forensic psychiatrist at UC was like being given a key to the best lawyers in the city. Getting hooked up in the forensic psych world is a lot of networking and you simply just cannot set up shop as a forensic psychiatrist and expect work to poor in. I was happy with that, but that was my situation, it might not be yours.

Examples of other doors open--> it's easier for you to get involved in research, author publications, be offered opportunities such as write a chapter of a textbook.
 
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Gavanshir

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The academic situation there is pretty good. UC is a great program and many of the psychiatrists stay in the area and practice there. Why does this matter if you don't go into academia? There's more good psychiatrists. The bar is higher and that can translate to you having more job satisfaction.

A problem, however, is the shortage of psychiatrists, while still going on in Cincinnati isn't as hard as it is in other areas of the midwest. For this reason, private-practice there isn't going to garner you as much money as quickly as areas that are much more bare. Oh yes there's bare areas, even as close as just 30+ minutes away.


Well you know that she was making money through other, ahem, other means....

Getting back to the salary, if you do good work you'll get bonuses but it won't match private practice. The retirement system rocks. Since you're a professor and it's a state school you are set up with the equivalent of a teacher's retirement where you get healthcare and half your salary for the rest of your life if you put in 20 years. Some docs manipulate the system by working way harder their last 2 years cause it's half of the last 2 years salary. So it's great but you're locked in if you want that retirement package. You got to factor in 20 years is a long time. You might want out later on but then be forced to stay in cause you're riding on that retirement package.

I used to work at UC. A problem with making more money outside of UC is they won't let you. Seriously. You can't do private practice if you work at UC. You can't do anything outside of UC if you're a UC professor. If you want to work more they will get you other side gigs but they will all be under the UC mantle. This may have changed but while I was at UC this was the rule and it was going on strong at least until about 6 years ago.

UC does open a lot of doors. E.g. I was offered way more forensic work and being a forensic psychiatrist at UC was like being given a key to the best lawyers in the city. Getting hooked up in the forensic psych world is a lot of networking and you simply just cannot set up shop as a forensic psychiatrist and expect work to poor in. I was happy with that, but that was my situation, it might not be yours.

That's very helpful. I had actually hoped to find a part-time job with UC and develop my private practice on the side. I wonder how a private telehealth practice would fair in Ohio given that patients wouldn't be bound by geography. I also want to explore weekend jobs in Ohio in some of those "bare" areas. I'm also been enticed by the forensics fellowship which seems to be their strongest program but convincing my wife to do a second fellowship will be a different matter.
 

whopper

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If you want to work there part time, the way it was while I was there, is you don't get any benefits, you don't get any academic title, and you're just there part time.

Anyone working there full time couldn't work elsewhere. Any work outside of UC you had to get permission and the department would force a cut. E.g. 20% of what I generated from forensic work they took. I didn't mind that at all cause aside that it was so lucrative I didn't mind it, I wouldn't have gotten those gigs had I not been there to begin with, they were big ones, we were getting them from all over the country, and because it was being done through the department my mentors from my fellowship would oversee my work which I thoroughly enjoyed. They were great teachers, we were able to continue our collaboration, and no fresh forensic psychiatrist has several murder cases under his belt. You only get really good at those things when you've done several of them.

John Kennedy, a former program director mentioned forensic cases like they're surgery cases. You don't get good until you've done it lots of times. Then after awhile they become automatic, easier, and you go from overworrying to developing confidence, then even perfecting it and then adding to the state of the art of the knowledge of it. Most forensic fellows will have mastered basics such as competency to stand trial but few will have done any real serious cases such as NGRI on a high level felony case.

If you are a professor at UC the emotional benefits did come through. Being invited to lunch, dinner, parties with literally some of the top doctors in the state, country even the world are open to you. Developing personal relationships, teaching, and knowing you are being surrounded by great colleagues was enticing. E.g. I used to hang out with Nasrallah and two psychiatrists who were featured on CBS Sunday Morning.

Also yes the salary doesn't compete with private practice but that's if you don't do anything outside. If, for example, you write a textbook that happens to sell well, or do research, you could make a heck of a lot more than private practice and they can open those doors for you.
 
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