Civilian in military match

[MMBS]

Hey guys, I need some advice regarding the military match and army residencies in general. Here's my situation; I'm a catagorical PGY1 in a civilian general surgery right now.I've been interested in the army for some time and more so now since I've decided that i want to apply for optho instead of continuing on with surgery. I've read a lot of info already and i've applied to the military match this year. I have a few questions though. How competive is the military match especially for a civilian, and for optho? I will be coming in as a pgy2 and my year of surgery would count as a prelim year, does that improve my chances since i won't need a transitional year? I'm also not clear on the seperate routes for the navy, and the air force. it seems that at present i'm only applying for the army positions. what about payback, I'm under the impression that if If I do 3 years of residency with the army( coming in as a civilian)I will owe 3 years and nothing more, is there anything that could be added on? Any insight would be apreciated.
Thanks, Robert

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[backrow]

Sorry to break it to you, but you won't get the position. The military doesn't take civilians in their programs and therefore you would need to be commisioned prior to starting residency. Now why would they go and take someone fresh into the military over someone who they have likely already preselected for the program or is coming back from being a GMO.

Now, with that being said you could likely come in as a GMO and then after your time apply to the program of your choice. The better question is why in the world would you do that.

 

[MMBS]

Thanks for the reply. They do take civilians, its just that not many civilians apply maybe 10 or so each year.You apply as a civilian and if you are selected you find out in December about a week or so before the official results are out. If you accept the position then you sign the agreement and you are commissioned. I know someone who did this last year. I've also spoken with the office in falls church many times and they've explained the process. Preference is obviously given to army applicants first, but thats not to say that civilians that want to go into the army can't or have to do come in as a GMO first.

 

[mac61]

I'm going to have to do some research, but...

If I found out that I got bumped from military residency (my only option) by someone not affiliated with the military, I would spend the entire 2-3 years as a GMO incredibly pissed off. I've been a pretty big supporter of "you should have known what you signed up for..." but this would push me WAY over the edge.

I'm a big fan of competition, and I do believe that the best people should get the job. However allowing people who have the choice not to compete in the pool of people who have no choice except that pool is not even close to OK. If an HPSPer wants to remove himself from the pool by choosing a deferment, I'm all for it. The opposite does not hold true. The number of people, who have no choice except the military, being initially denied PGY-2 slots is already overwhelming. Adding to this HUGE problem by allowing non-committed individuals to compete would be egregious.

I am interested to see whether or not this is possible. If it is, I hope I never meet the guy that forces me (or my buddy) into a GMO as it would be VERY difficult for me to remain objective. Similarly, my faith in a system that I already consider barely functioning would be damaged irreparably.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

So you're not committed unless they give you the residency of your choice? Interesting. Do they give you some money to pay back med school loans with?

 

[backrow]

Thanks for the reply. They do take civilians, its just that not many civilians apply maybe 10 or so each year.You apply as a civilian and if you are selected you find out in December about a week or so before the official results are out. If you accept the position then you sign the agreement and you are commissioned. I know someone who did this last year. I've also spoken with the office in falls church many times and they've explained the process. Preference is obviously given to army applicants first, but thats not to say that civilians that want to go into the army can't or have to do come in as a GMO first.

You misread what I wrote: I said the military doesn't take civilians in their programs and therefore you would need to be commisioned first.

I agree that it is possible to go into programs without doing a GMO first; however, you said you wanted to do ophthalmology and therefore I am saying you won't get the slot without doing a GMO first.

I am sure the army would be more than happy to take people directly into their FP programs or some of the other less competitive specialties.

I know of one person in the Navy who took this route for anesthesia; however, he had to do a GMO tour first.

 

[MMBS]

So you're not committed unless they give you the residency of your choice? Interesting. Do they give you some money to pay back med school loans with?

You"re not committed unless you accept, and you certainly don't get any money back for med school.

mac61, It is possible, believe me. It might not happen often because not a lot of civilians want to go into the military, but its possible. There is really no incentive for civilians to go into the military for a residency,whatsoever. I'm applying because i really want to serve not because i can't get a residency otherwise.

I agree with you backrow. I'm sure they would just take people directly into FP or something similar but its worth a shot. The person I knew went into psych but he went in directly without doing a GMO year.I don't think I'll get the position either but like I said, its worth a shot. Anyways, if anybody knows anything about optho residencies let me know.

 

[dyk33]

Hey guys, I need some advice regarding the military match and army residencies in general. Here's my situation; I'm a catagorical PGY1 in a civilian general surgery right now.I've been interested in the army for some time and more so now since I've decided that i want to apply for optho instead of continuing on with surgery. I've read a lot of info already and i've applied to the military match this year. I have a few questions though. How competive is the military match especially for a civilian, and for optho? I will be coming in as a pgy2 and my year of surgery would count as a prelim year, does that improve my chances since i won't need a transitional year? I'm also not clear on the seperate routes for the navy, and the air force. it seems that at present i'm only applying for the army positions. what about payback, I'm under the impression that if If I do 3 years of residency with the army( coming in as a civilian)I will owe 3 years and nothing more, is there anything that could be added on? Any insight would be apreciated.
Thanks, Robert

for ophthalmology, some years are more competitive than others. last year wasn't, but this year is. if you are just finishing up prelim year, you won't start next year since the incoming guys have already been selected.

as others posted, i've never heard of civilian matching into a military program. I would guess it would be very hard because: first, you have to be known to the PD's. for you to be known to the PD's, you'd have to rotate through. for you to rotate through the programs, you have to be in the military. I can think of some exceptions (if you are in a medical school or residency program affiliated with the MTF, for example) but for the most part, you have to be int he military. we are now interviewing med students, GMO's for PGY-2 2010 slots and I can tell you it is more competitive this year than last year. if you haven't rotated through any of the programs, your chance of matching this year is almost none. so you are looking at waiting for at least 2 years before you can start PGY-2 (2011) for opHtho.

you will owe 3 years if you are just doing residency in ophthalmology.

 

[GMO2003]

You"re not committed unless you accept, and you certainly don't get any money back for med school.

mac61, It is possible, believe me. It might not happen often because not a lot of civilians want to go into the military, but its possible. There is really no incentive for civilians to go into the military for a residency,whatsoever. I'm applying because i really want to serve not because i can't get a residency otherwise.

I agree with you backrow. I'm sure they would just take people directly into FP or something similar but its worth a shot. The person I knew went into psych but he went in directly without doing a GMO year.I don't think I'll get the position either but like I said, its worth a shot. Anyways, if anybody knows anything about optho residencies let me know.

Well, to put it very simplisticly to you...it ain't gonna happen, PERIOD

The JSGMEB goes by a point system to make it a totally blind and non-preferential system so that people from HPSP, USUHS, GMOs, FSs, UMOs, DMOs, and active duty MDs/DOs applying for second or even third residencies are all treated the same. As a civilian, it is numerically IMPOSSIBLE for you to have more points than any of the aforementioned individuals.

Additionally, not all of the members of the JSGMEB are physicians. Some of them are actually line officers. Do you honestly think a tanker or armor officer would give you more points over someone who is already in the military, prior service, or a GMO, FS, DMO ect who is currently doing an operational tour?

The answer is no. The only way I could see you being accepted for an ophthalmology position over a pre-selected intern, FS, GMO, DMO, or active duty MD/DO is if the ratio of applicants to open positions is extremely low.

Either way good luck. However, if you're really committed and genuinely want to serve your country, plan on being a GMO for atleast a couple of years before you get that ophtho spot

 

[MaximusD]

Well, to put it very simplisticly to you...it ain't gonna happen, PERIOD

The JSGMEB goes by a point system to make it a totally blind and non-preferential system so that people from HPSP, USUHS, GMOs, FSs, UMOs, DMOs, and active duty MDs/DOs applying for second or even third residencies are all treated the same. As a civilian, it is numerically IMPOSSIBLE for you to have more points than any of the aforementioned individuals.

Additionally, not all of the members of the JSGMEB are physicians. Some of them are actually line officers. Do you honestly think a tanker or armor officer would give you more points over someone who is already in the military, prior service, or a GMO, FS, DMO ect who is currently doing an operational tour?

The answer is no. The only way I could see you being accepted for an ophthalmology position over a pre-selected intern, FS, GMO, DMO, or active duty MD/DO is if the ratio of applicants to open positions is extremely low.

Either way good luck. However, if you're really committed and genuinely want to serve your country, plan on being a GMO for atleast a couple of years before you get that ophtho spot

Do military spots ever go UNFILLED? I can't imagine that they'd leave unfilled spots as they defer applicants into civilian spots or as they assign individuals to GMO spots. Maybe in primary care if everyone only marks specialties as choices? Thanks for your input.

 

[psychbender]

Do military spots ever go UNFILLED? I can't imagine that they'd leave unfilled spots as they defer applicants into civilian spots or as they assign individuals to GMO spots. Maybe in primary care if everyone only marks specialties as choices? Thanks for your input.

To give you an idea, this year, I think there area about 20-40 fewer applying medical students than there are PGY-1 spots for the Army. How this translates to PGY2+, I don't know, but most of the programs are continuous.

 

[GMO2003]

Do military spots ever go UNFILLED? I can't imagine that they'd leave unfilled spots as they defer applicants into civilian spots or as they assign individuals to GMO spots. Maybe in primary care if everyone only marks specialties as choices? Thanks for your input.

yes...each year some spots do go unfilled...however, I have never heard of ophtho, derm, radio, anesth, or any other highly coveted residency go unfilled...the unfilled spots are usually intentionally left open in transitional, internal medicine, family medicine, and preliminary general surgery for certain USUHS individuals who failed to match within the military and were not granted a deferment

 

[The White Coat Investor]

The JSGMEB goes by a point system to make it a totally blind and non-preferential system

You're nuts. The civilian match is much more blind. The "points system" leaves plenty of fudge room such as "potential as a military officer."

 

[GMO2003]

You're nuts. The civilian match is much more blind. The "points system" leaves plenty of fudge room such as "potential as a military officer."

you definitely have a point...I didn't think of that in that case this applicant may have a chance...I mean he has no obligation with the military whatsoever...I guess that would be a very large bargaining chip...nonetheless, I think its a long shot...but I wish him or her the very best of luck anyways

 

[MMBS]

Thanks for the input. I'll let you know how it goes.