Class Rank- what's your opinion?

[zeloc]

My school ranks all students, and I feel that because of this people are super-competitive and aren't really all that helpful to each other. For those of you that don't have any kind of a class rank, do you find that there is a lot of cameraderie, cooperation, friendliness, etc.? On the other hand, maybe class rank will encourage students to work harder and study more.

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[Kazema]

We have grades (Honors, High Satisfactory, Satisfactory, Unsatisfactory) but as far as I know we're not really ranked. Maybe we are but if so none of us knows about it. Maybe it's just the people at my school? I don't know. I feel like we only have a couple gunner types who would care about ranking if we had (have?) it.

We're really cooperative. We share notes and resources, ask each other questions about the material when we don't understand it, and are pretty relaxed toward one another. I really love that about my school.

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

Our supposedly 'non competitive' school ranks everyone by numeric score (actual grade, NOT just GPA down to .01 points, e.g., 87.86% vs. 87.25%) and our class rank goes on every dean's letter !! In a class of 60, that means there as very little room to manuever! And someone told me before coming here, it was a less competitive environment! Shahhh! Right!!

 

[Brainsucker]

I used to think that we should be ranked, but know that I know there are people who can memorize at amazing rates, I don't think so anymore. (self-serving, I know) Anyway, I'd rather try to distinguish myself with research and recommendations without getting dragged down by not being #1.

 

[werd]

pass/fail here. very little feeling of competition. P = MD.

 

[THP]

I think the only people who feel the effects of competition are in the top 10-15% of the class. I'm pretty sure the majority of my classmates, who are in the middle of the road, don't really care. I have found everyone to be very helpful whenever I have asked questions.

There has to be some way to separate the good students from the less good ones and class rank is an effective way to do that.

 

[bigfrank]

I think the only people who feel the effects of competition are in the top 10-15% of the class. I'm pretty sure the majority of my classmates, who are in the middle of the road, don't really care. I have found everyone to be very helpful whenever I have asked questions.

There has to be some way to separate the good students from the less good ones and class rank is an effective way to do that.

I think this is a really good and accurate comment.

 

[happydays]

It depends on the school. Some schools really want their most competitive applicants to stand out (and help them match into derm in california), while others think all their students are great and that they will distinguish themselves in their clinical years and by their board scores.

 

[Brainsucker]

I think this is a really good and accurate comment.

There are other ways. Look at the USMLE, look at recommendations, look at publications. Each one of those is more telling, I think, than a rank based on grades.

As for neurosurgery in CA, I'll just have to become more religious. I'll start with a little renal worship. Damn kidneys. (Actually, we're P/F at the moment, so I don't really have to die worrying for a little while.)

 

[Sureshot83]

My med school has a five-tiered grading system: honors, high pass, pass, low pass, fail, making a GPA out of 4.0. However, we aren't ranked against each other. We also don't get our exams curved, so the grades reflect only what you know, not what other people know. I feel like this is nice because it motivates students (if they want the higher grades) but doesn't make competition in class. All competitiveness is internally driven, which is the way I think it should be.

Anyway, I feel like good students with pretty good GPAs will stand out inherently, and the rank is not necessary. If someone gets through med school with a 3.8 (meaning almost all honors and a few high passes), residencies will probably take notice. And if you were wondering, no, not everyone at my school gets good grades - the averages on our exams are usually in the high 70s or low 80s, which would usually be right on the border between high pass and pass.

One possible solution that doesn't involve ranking is something my high school did. We weren't ranked then either, but the school published a list of all the courses in the school and the grade distribution in the course, so college admissions officers could get a general (but not precise) idea of where the student stood with respect to the rest of the class.

 

[Mutt]

Someone demystify this for me:



Is it true that nobody (as in residency directors) sees how well you performed in your first two years of medical school (such that it boils down to Step 1 and clerkship performance)?

 

[Brainsucker]

Depends on your school. At mine, my first year is pass/fail, though my performance might be judged as "satisfactory" or "exceptional" in the dean's letter. The latter isn't looking too likely at the moment. Second year is H/P/F.

 

[Iwy Em Hotep]

We're P/F the first year and H/P/F the second year, and I hear that we're probably ranked. However, I think the feeling of camardarie is something that you can help institute early on in first year. Arrange note-taking services, get old exams, send out study guides to the class...and convince other people to do so. You can get really far with this, and everyone will have a more pleasant time with med school.

 

[robotsonic]

Med schools may be a bit deceptive about the whole ranking issue. There are very few schools that truly do not rank. At my school, most of my classmates and I were under the impression that we were not ranked. Then in fourth year, we learn how our "adjectives" are decided (outstanding, excellent, very good, and good) and *surprise* we are ranked. We never get to see this rank list; we only learn our adjective, so we can sort of guess our general range, but never know our specific ranks.

A ranking system benefits a class by providing a way to recognize the top students and make it easier for them to get the residencies they want. Do you really want the only point of comparison to be your step 1 score?

 

[getunconcsious]

I'm gunning to be dead last in my class. It's gonna be hard, but I think I can do it.

 

[bnichols0330]

Someone demystify this for me:



Is it true that nobody (as in residency directors) sees how well you performed in your first two years of medical school (such that it boils down to Step 1 and clerkship performance)?

MB this is not true. You will submit your ENTIRE transcript from medical school when applying for residency. So residency directors will have access to your grades (from all 4 years). How much stock they put into grades during the first 2 years varies, but the overall consensus is that these are much less important than Step 1 and Clerkship performance.

 

[synapse lapse]

FYI some (from what I've heard most) pass fail schools still rank their students.

 

[zeloc]

There has to be some way to separate the good students from the less good ones and class rank is an effective way to do that.

I would agree with this if tests were accurate reflections of the quality of the student, but at my school at least, the tests are 85% rote memorization and only determine how much time a person puts into memorizing obscure details. If our exams were USMLE-style and tested clinically important stuff, I would totally agree with class rank.

 

[fantasty]

FYI some (from what I've heard most) pass fail schools still rank their students.

Yes. Most schools rank and include this on the dean's letter (even P/F grading schools). Some only rank on 3rd year grades. So, even if you think you aren't being ranked, their is a good chance you are...

 

[MEG@COOL]

Yes. Most schools rank and include this on the dean's letter (even P/F grading schools). Some only rank on 3rd year grades. So, even if you think you aren't being ranked, their is a good chance you are...

You look friendly.

 

[Law2Doc]

A ranking system benefits a class by providing a way to recognize the top students and make it easier for them to get the residencies they want. Do you really want the only point of comparison to be your step 1 score?

Well, this presupposes that those of us voting are the "top students". The other 50+% would just as soon get a "do-over" on the boards.

 

[CANES2006]

You look friendly.

Unfortunately, she/he's right though.

I was at the top 25% of my class and my vote is to do away with ranking.

 

[fantasty]

You look friendly.

Yay! First person to notice that You taste like popcorn.

 

[blkkd]

We are ranked but there is no deceit between classmates. We are mature adults her, if its not like that in other schools well i really feel sad for those anal clowns...