clerkship pet peavs

[me454555]

After spending 4 months on the wards, I've found that there are a few things that really get to me. I hope I'm not the only one who has these peaves so please post yours here


1) Watching your fellow medical student who has just been talking to you for 20 minutes about (s)he want to go into field X. Then watching how that same medical student will tell every attending/resident, "I want to go into (insert attending/resident's field here)"

2) Working long hours doing busy for no pay and being forced to act like its the greatest job in the world. This usually happens on rotations that I'm not interested in. My fav part is when you mention this to somoene else and they give you look like "I can't believe you would even think this. Its such an honor to be trained and scutted yada yada yada". Being a medical student is the only job where we are not only forced to work long hours for no pay but also don't get to vent about it.

3) IM/Surg/Ped/OB docs who ask you "what field do you want to go into?" then when you reply w/something like gas/er/rads/path etc they automatically give you some condescending comment about how your going to be bored or don't have to work so hard. Can't Docs just accept that not everyone likes the same field they do?

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[subtropicmd]

1) Watching your fellow medical student who has just been talking to you for 20 minutes about (s)he want to go into field X. Then watching how that same medical student will tell every attending/resident, "I want to go into (insert attending/resident's field here)"

why do you care? 20 mins- yeah I'm sure that med student told you everything about his/her life and what influences his/her decision. maybe he/she has a few routes they're thinking about taking and talked to you about one because he/she is exploring ONE at the moment?

 

[KyGrlDr2B]

1) Watching your fellow medical student who has just been talking to you for 20 minutes about (s)he want to go into field X. Then watching how that same medical student will tell every attending/resident, "I want to go into (insert attending/resident's field here)"

why do you care? 20 mins- yeah I'm sure that med student told you everything about his/her life and what influences his/her decision. maybe he/she has a few routes they're thinking about taking and talked to you about one because he/she is exploring ONE at the moment?

Um, I think the original poster is talking about students who say they want to go into whatever rotation they are currently doing. For example, Bob wants to do psych, but instead tells the surgeons he wants to be a surgeon, he tells the OBs he wants to do ob/gyn, etc. Don't become one of these people, your classmates will hate you and it RARELY works.

 

[Entei]

After spending 4 months on the wards, I've found that there are a few things that really get to me. I hope I'm not the only one who has these peaves so please post yours here


1) Watching your fellow medical student who has just been talking to you for 20 minutes about (s)he want to go into field X. Then watching how that same medical student will tell every attending/resident, "I want to go into (insert attending/resident's field here)"

2) Working long hours doing busy for no pay and being forced to act like its the greatest job in the world. This usually happens on rotations that I'm not interested in. My fav part is when you mention this to somoene else and they give you look like "I can't believe you would even think this. Its such an honor to be trained and scutted yada yada yada". Being a medical student is the only job where we are not only forced to work long hours for no pay but also don't get to vent about it.

3) IM/Surg/Ped/OB docs who ask you "what field do you want to go into?" then when you reply w/something like gas/er/rads/path etc they automatically give you some condescending comment about how your going to be bored or don't have to work so hard. Can't Docs just accept that not everyone likes the same field they do?

4.) I'm fed up with residents (interns included!) who have forgotten what it was like to be in a third year's crappy shoes. I'm really not paying $60k a year to get you coffee, and because, unlike you, I did not spring forth from the womb with my MD, I could use a little teaching now and then. But I understand you're incredibly busy, so if you can't manage that, I'll settle for an acknowledging glance every once in a while.

5.) I'm also sick of the mentality that I should love wholeheartedly every specialty I'm forced to rotate through. Sorry to break this to you, but I've already decided what I want to do, and your specialty isn't it. I'm dedicated to learning the basics and the important things that every doctor should know about XYZ specialty, but please forgive me if I'd honestly rather leave medicine and work in McDonald's than do XYZology for a living.

6.) If you ask me what I want to do, and I'm dumb enough to actually answer you honestly and say, for example, "surgery," please don't take that opportunity to relate to me all the reasons why you hate surgery and/or surgeons, including, but not limited to, your daily interactions with surgeons, the rumors that you've heard about surgeons from your colleagues, your perhaps less-than-fond memories of your surgery rotation, and your need to sleep and eat on a daily basis.

 

[tupac_don]

4.) I'm fed up with residents (interns included!) who have forgotten what it was like to be in a third year's crappy shoes. I'm really not paying $60k a year to get you coffee, and because, unlike you, I did not spring forth from the womb with my MD, I could use a little teaching now and then. But I understand you're incredibly busy, so if you can't manage that, I'll settle for an acknowledging glance every once in a while.

5.) I'm also sick of the mentality that I should love wholeheartedly every specialty I'm forced to rotate through. Sorry to break this to you, but I've already decided what I want to do, and your specialty isn't it. I'm dedicated to learning the basics and the important things that every doctor should know about XYZ specialty, but please forgive me if I'd honestly rather leave medicine and work in McDonald's than do XYZology for a living.

6.) If you ask me what I want to do, and I'm dumb enough to actually answer you honestly and say, for example, "surgery," please don't take that opportunity to relate to me all the reasons why you hate surgery and/or surgeons, including, but not limited to, your daily interactions with surgeons, the rumors that you've heard about surgeons from your colleagues, your perhaps less-than-fond memories of your surgery rotation, and your need to sleep and eat on a daily basis.

Well you can't please everyone. Some people complain that you tell which specialty u wanna go into, so as not to "suck up". Then you complain that they attack if you are honest. You can't win either way, you try to please fellow students, you'll get flack from residents, attendings. You try to be diplomatic (others would call this sucking up and fakeness) your peers are at your throat. So to me in any case seems like a no win situation. Also it depends who you are rotating with. If you are rotating with 4 slackers and you are a gunner, you will be hated by students. If you are a slacker working with gunners, you will be again looked down upon. In any case its a no win situation the way I see it and everyone innately defends their point of view. And since no point of view is 100 % right, each has their own point. All you can do is more or less vent.

 

[Entei]

Well you can't please everyone. Some people complain that you tell which specialty u wanna go into, so as not to "suck up". Then you complain that they attack if you are honest. You can't win either way, you try to please fellow students, you'll get flack from residents, attendings. You try to be diplomatic (others would call this sucking up and fakeness) your peers are at your throat. So to me in any case seems like a no win situation. Also it depends who you are rotating with. If you are rotating with 4 slackers and you are a gunner, you will be hated by students. If you are a slacker working with gunners, you will be again looked down upon. In any case its a no win situation the way I see it and everyone innately defends their point of view. And since no point of view is 100 % right, each has their own point. All you can do is more or less vent.

I believe in being honest with this kind of thing over being diplomatic. That's why it's a pet peeve of mine when a resident or attending asks me what I want to do, and when I answer honestly, I have to listen to them complaining about my chosen field. Most of them are genuinely curious and won't hold your choice against you, but it's still rude to tell someone all the reasons why you hate ABC specialty when you hear that they want to be an ABCologist. It's just as rude, for example, if you were in a restaurant with them, and after you ordered your steak dinner, they looked across the table at you and told you that "meat is murder."

We all have different tastes in food and specialties, but it's rude to try to force those opinions on others. Sure, I may hate XYZ specialty for a lot of reasons, but I would never tell someone those reasons to their face when they just admitted to liking XYZ. I look at it as more of a Miss Manners kind of thing than a political "how can I please everyone" kind of thing.

Besides, the point of this thread is to vent about stuff like this.

 

[Adcadet]

7.) Being at the mercy of everyone else in the hospital. Anybody, from consultants to nurses to ancillary staff to that homeless guy who wandered in off the street all clearly know more than you and can easily make your life a living hell, and sometimes do, for any tiny real or perceived insult or lack of groveling (usually the case with the HUCs). After a bad day most people don't go home and kick their dog, but some will kick the med student.

8.) Being set up to look like a ***** on a regular basis. A consultant asks for the patient ID number, and you read off the big number stamped on the top of each page...except that in this hospital it's the smaller number beneath the big number, totally different from the last hospital you were at. Then the HUC can't enter your order because you didnt' fill out the additional form needed, which wasn't needed at the last hospital you worked at and which clearly never made it into the curriculum in medical school...and your attending thought you knew. You're stuck without food because the cafeteria closed at 6:30 when the dept. secretary clearly told you 7:30, just like every other hospital you've been at. You have absolutely no idea what the social worker means when she clearly explains that your patient is "pending a rule 25 there is no Jarvis yet but there is a DHC and your attending wants a 40"...and at that point so do you!

Quick tip - try kissing up to the nursing students. Why should you, the heir to the throne of the medical world, who's spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on medical education, worked your butt off on Step 1, etc kiss the butt of some 20-year old who reminds you of Jenna Bush or some 40-year old wash up who's failed in every other career she's had and has decided that going back to community college to "care for people" is a good idea? Becase everybody seems to take pitty on them and like them, but they may not yet know your proper role in the hospital yet (see #7 above, and beware, they'll learn soon enough) and the other people may find it cute/entertaining/view it as an act of kindness when you ask the nursing student about your patient's bowel movements and listen patiently while pondering if the blood pressure of 47/87 and a HR of 18 that she recorded in the chart means that you should be calling a code on your patient, rechecking the vitals, laughing, or asking her to clarify.

OK, I feel better now. Thanks. Back to work, where most people are actually very nice and helpful. Most.

 

[sapience8x]

Um, I think the original poster is talking about students who say they want to go into whatever rotation they are currently doing. For example, Bob wants to do psych, but instead tells the surgeons he wants to be a surgeon, he tells the OBs he wants to do ob/gyn, etc. Don't become one of these people, your classmates will hate you and it RARELY works.

But what if the person really IS thinking about that new specialty? isn't that what 3rd year is all about? i think in each rotation so far, i have thought about doing SOMETHING within that rotation. i have always floated back to my original goal but i allowed my self the luxury of exploring the things i enjoyed in those rotations. honestly usually by the end of the rotation i have explored it fully and if it sticks it sticks if it doesn't it doesn't. i usually tell people well i was thinking about psych but i have really enjoyed these last 2 weeks here because xyz so i am thinking about how it would be like to do this. or usually the question is- are youo thinking about surgery? well yes, because xyz but #1 on my list is psych. i guess i'm saying it is not as black and white as that. I never understood when my classmates say- you're thinking about xyz? what happend to pysch? didn't you want to do xyz also and xyz before that? I see nothing wrong with exploring...

 

[sapience8x]

i actually enjoy hearing different opiniosn about the speicalty that i am thinking of which is probably why when i am "exploring" i say I am thinking about xyz because qrs and i am thinking xyz... and see what comments i get. i get some different views that way.

 

[ExtraCrispy]

But what if the person really IS thinking about that new specialty? isn't that what 3rd year is all about? i think in each rotation so far, i have thought about doing SOMETHING within that rotation. i have always floated back to my original goal but i allowed my self the luxury of exploring the things i enjoyed in those rotations. honestly usually by the end of the rotation i have explored it fully and if it sticks it sticks if it doesn't it doesn't. i usually tell people well i was thinking about psych but i have really enjoyed these last 2 weeks here because xyz so i am thinking about how it would be like to do this. or usually the question is- are youo thinking about surgery? well yes, because xyz but #1 on my list is psych. i guess i'm saying it is not as black and white as that. I never understood when my classmates say- you're thinking about xyz? what happend to pysch? didn't you want to do xyz also and xyz before that? I see nothing wrong with exploring...

I don't think the OP sees anything wrong with exploring, either. If you've had an experience during which someone lashed out at your for exploring your options and being unsure, than I apologize. I don't think that's what the OP means.

On the wards, I've heard plenty of students say "I'm not sure what I want to go into, I've actually really liked this rotation, so maybe I'll go into ___." That's fine, they're being honest. The issue is when someone flat out lies about an interest in a specialty.

For example, there's a particular student I know who decided very early in med school (preclinical) that she wanted to go into Derm. But to match in Derm, you need Honors in your rotations, and she decided that to do that she needed to seem uber enthusiastic about every puff of air from the faculty's orifices. So, she'd lie about Derm and tell the IM attending she wanted to do IM, the psychiatrist that she wanted to go into psych, etc.

THAT'S lousy. Being dishonest is just not cool. And I think that's what the OP is stipulating.

 

[njaqua]

I don't think the OP sees anything wrong with exploring, either. If you've had an experience during which someone lashed out at your for exploring your options and being unsure, than I apologize. I don't think that's what the OP means.

On the wards, I've heard plenty of students say "I'm not sure what I want to go into, I've actually really liked this rotation, so maybe I'll go into ___." That's fine, they're being honest. The issue is when someone flat out lies about an interest in a specialty.

For example, there's a particular student I know who decided very early in med school (preclinical) that she wanted to go into Derm. But to match in Derm, you need Honors in your rotations, and she decided that to do that she needed to seem uber enthusiastic about every puff of air from the faculty's orifices. So, she'd lie about Derm and tell the IM attending she wanted to do IM, the psychiatrist that she wanted to go into psych, etc.

THAT'S lousy. Being dishonest is just not cool. And I think that's what the OP is stipulating.

Lousy and annoying not to mention possibly a bit self-defeating. What happens when you go to that psych or IM attending and ask for a letter for derm. You may have the honors pass but if they see through your BS I imagine their feelings would resonate in the letter. Of course people change their minds but I'm sure they see a lot of this a**kissing and know what really went down.
just my speculative opinion.

 

[tupac_don]

Lousy and annoying not to mention possibly a bit self-defeating. What happens when you go to that psych or IM attending and ask for a letter for derm. You may have the honors pass but if they see through your BS I imagine their feelings would resonate in the letter. Of course people change their minds but I'm sure they see a lot of this a**kissing and know what really went down.
just my speculative opinion.

Some do some don't. It depends who you talk to. Some people actually like asskissing. And people who do it, are good at it and they strategically do it with people that are susceptible to it. Plus if they did honor chances are that they will get a great reference letter anyway. I mean what is the doctor who writes a ref say. Very bright, honored rotation, but kissed too much ass, so no I wouldn't reccomend her. Wake up, everyone hides their feeling and manipulates things to their advantage. Some more than others. But I use to get frustrated all the time, until you figure out not to let stuff like that bother you. If people wanna behave a certain way you behave your own way, and you will be much happier.

I mean really in medicine, ass kissing goes on all the time. Nobody talks bad about other doctors, at least not publicly. This is what "professionalism" is about. I wouldn't say ass kissing or little political savvy is neccessary to be successful, but I'd say it can help you probably more than hurt you in this field.

 

[njaqua]

I mean what is the doctor who writes a ref say. Very bright, honored rotation, but kissed too much ass, so no I wouldn't reccomend her.

Of course not, don't be ridiculous. I was just saying it could bias how that doc feels about the student. I have no idea, i'm just speculating, but it is not illogical. But in terms of what actually does happen, I will defer to you.

 

[me454555]

But what if the person really IS thinking about that new specialty? isn't that what 3rd year is all about? i think in each rotation so far, i have thought about doing SOMETHING within that rotation. i have always floated back to my original goal but i allowed my self the luxury of exploring the things i enjoyed in those rotations. honestly usually by the end of the rotation i have explored it fully and if it sticks it sticks if it doesn't it doesn't. i usually tell people well i was thinking about psych but i have really enjoyed these last 2 weeks here because xyz so i am thinking about how it would be like to do this. or usually the question is- are youo thinking about surgery? well yes, because xyz but #1 on my list is psych. i guess i'm saying it is not as black and white as that. I never understood when my classmates say- you're thinking about xyz? what happend to pysch? didn't you want to do xyz also and xyz before that? I see nothing wrong with exploring...

I was referring more toward the student who knows what he/she wants to go into and flat out lies rather than the student who is unsure

 

[me454555]

i actually enjoy hearing different opiniosn about the speicalty that i am thinking of which is probably why when i am "exploring" i say I am thinking about xyz because qrs and i am thinking xyz... and see what comments i get. i get some different views that way.

I enjoy heaging different points of view on rotations as well and theres nothing wrong with it. What upsets me is when it becomes more derogatory as in "Why do you want to into xyz, all they do is qrs, go into abc its much better" etc etc. Then they look down on you and say "your only going to xyz for (lifestyle, salary, lack of thinking)" and that bugs me. Drs need to have more respect for other Drs

 

[loveumms]

9.) Fellow classmates who take themselves way too seriously and don't know how to have a good time to save their lives. Sometimes you just have to laugh at yourself and realize that even though life sucks in med school you gotta be able to have a little fun. Or those who are so engrossed in med school that they don't realize there is life outside of medicine.