Clinical experience at NYU med or SUNY downstate (MS-3/4)?

[CR7MedStudent]

Does anyone know how good the clinical experience during MS-3 and 4 is for these schools? I am applying to both and I really want to go to a school that gives the best pathology exposure as possible..
Thanks in advance

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[anbuitachi]

i think you should decide after you get in.. no point thinking about it if haven't been accepted yet. you are just wasting your brain power lol..

but they are both good, you wont miss out on pathology by being in NYU or downstate. though from what i hear, they let students do more stuff at downstate (blood draws, IVs, etc)

 

[elprezidente]

Current Downstate MS1. I'll start off by saying that I don't know what the curriculum/opportunities are for clinical exposure at NYU, and I'm sure that it's excellent as well. At Downstate, thus far, we've had a ton of amazing chances to get involved. Some students have learned how to draw blood already because Downstate has a student run free clinic that you can get involved in during MS1/MS2, with more involvement opportunities as time goes on. For another organization, I worked a health fair in which we gave out free flu shots, to people who couldn't afford them/don't have insurance, at a local church.

In terms of MS3/MS4, I think you'll get pretty great clinical exposure anywhere you go, since that's essentially what you're doing every day. Nonetheless, Downstate's affiliated hospitals include a mix of different institutions with regard to the general patient population. Some of the hospitals that MS3s rotate through include places like Downstate/Brookdale that serve a poorer demographic, while I've spoken to MS3s rotating through Lenox Hill in the upper east side of Manhattan, which apparently serves a wealthier patient population. The nice thing about the former is that, even in my limited experience, I've noticed that patients are VERY willing to allow you to participate in their care. I'm not sure how that compares to NYU, where the university hospital serves a patient population that's quite different.

 

[Keladry]

Other Downstate MS1 here - I second what @elprezidente said.

Plus Downstate & its associated hospitals see a lot of trauma, so it's a great place to be if you're interested in EM, trauma surg, etc.

 

[CR7MedStudent]

Thanks! I am actually in a combined program where I will match into one of these two schools for the last 2 years of med school. @Keladry and @elprezidente, do you know what your schedule is like for MS-3 & 4? I saw on the website that downstate is starting to implement rotations in the 2nd year?

 

[Toastayy]

I heard Downstate has really good patient populations from one of the 3rd years.
I also know that NYU has Bellevue which is a public university and therefore sees a crap ton of diverse patients. They also bragged that usually that's where people who are on vacations from other countries would go first and therefore they see a wide range of patients.
Not to mention NYU is surrounded by a veteran's hospital, as well as public and private hospitals that the students usually rotate through. So they def have a great patient population.
Not to mention Bellevue is a Level I trauma center.

 

[Keladry]

Thanks! I am actually in a combined program where I will match into one of these two schools for the last 2 years of med school. @Keladry and @elprezidente, do you know what your schedule is like for MS-3 & 4? I saw on the website that downstate is starting to implement rotations in the 2nd year?

Last year, they implemented a new curriculum, so it's 1.5 years preclinical/2 years clinical. So technically, yes, that's true, but I think they're just referring to the start of rotations as 3rd year. No idea on the schedule - if you want, I can find out from a current MS2.

Also regarding @Toastayy 's post - all of Downstate is a public university, there's also a VA hospital nearby (I know some students have their preceptorships there in the preclinical years, not 100% certain on clinical rotations there but it seems probable), and King's County is a level I trauma center too
I obviously don't know anything about NYU, though, since I'm not there, and it's definitely fantastic as well!

 

[Toastayy]

I don't attend NYU either lol this is just info I obtained on interviews and speaking with students.
Didn't learn that King's was a Level I trauma facility nor did I know about the veteran's hospital.
I think Downstate needs to do a better job selling themselves. I remember the interview information session was so short compared to NYU's hour long presentation. But I guess NYU needs to justify the cost right?
I also didn't know about Downstate 1.5 preclinical switch. Do you know if it is similar to NYU's in that you get into rotations earlier and therefore take STEP I after a couple rotations?
If so then they are definitely even more likeable than before. Man, is this info easily accessible anywhere?

 

[alpinism]

Downstate/Kings County is better known for trauma and is one of the busiest knife and gun clubs in the US. They see a great deal of pathology as well. On the flip side, from what I've heard the patient population at Kings isn't as diverse as NYU. However, if you rotate at other hospitals (University hospital, Lenox Hill hospital, etc..) then It shouldn't be an issue.

NYU/Bellevue has probably one of the most diverse patient populations in the US with tons of immigrants and people from all walks of life. Bellevue also serves as the "county hospital" of Manhattan much like Kings for Brooklyn. In addition, NYU is known for its infectious disease and toxicology departments plus the med school has more research activity on campus. On the flip side, they hardly see any trauma (like most hospitals in Manhattan).

 

[elprezidente]

3rd years rotate through various hospitals. I live with a third year and so far he has rotated through a bunch of different hospitals including Downstate, Kings, Lenox Hill, Brooklyn VA and a couple others, so you get exposure to an enormous contrast according to him as Lenox Hill is very different from Downstate.

I know a few people that rotated through trauma surgery at Kings and they said it was one of the most unbelievable things they've ever experienced. Kings is a level 1 trauma center, as are Brookdale and Staten Island, which are also associated hospitals.

I agree that the school needs to do a better job of selling itself. There are so many upsides that I didn't know about until I got here. Regarding the step @Toastayy, we have an 8 week break at the end of our last unit during MS2, which ends in early February. Students will usually schedule to take the STEP1 5-6 weeks into the break, giving them that much time off to study, and then some time afterwards for vacation prior to starting rotations, which begin in April (I believe that it's April, but I'm not positive as the current MS2s are the first class on the new curriculum and obviously haven't taken STEP1/started clinicals yet.

 

[CR7MedStudent]

Thanks again for the insider info @Keladry and @@elprezidente.

@Toastayy I have to agree with you about the "selling themselves" part. When I had my NYU interview, they gave us free stuff and a 40 minute presentation with a Q and A session with the Dean of academic education. At SUNY downstate on the other hand it was simply an in and out interview. No Q and A, no tour... On the other hand almost everyone from my program who went to downstate said they loved it, highlighting the extra responsibility students have with patients.

@alpinism you are right about the crazy diversity at Bellevue. Not only is it the #2 hospital system in the trip-state, someone I know who went to NYU said in one day she saw full blown jaundice and a 20something yo with undiagnosed TOF. I don't know how you can get to 20 without being diagnosed with TOF? But then again he was from another country. That person is now doing anesthesiology at NYU btw.

One thing that downstate clearly has over NYU is a public match list. Like NYU is a great school, just by walking through it and meeting with some of their students, that is obvious. But NYU happens to be the only school I'm interested in without a Match list. Unless anybody knows of a link????? Downstate's match list(which is online for the past couple years) is quite impressive. Students matching to Downstate, NYU, columbia, and many other programs in Pediatrics to Orthopedics and Urology. Even though downstate may not be as fancy and stuff compared to NYU, it is still a great school and residency directors must be aware of the quality of downstate's graduates.

It's really great that these forums exist, I never had such a difficult decision to make.

 

[Toastayy]

Thanks again for the insider info @Keladry and @@elprezidente.

@Toastayy I have to agree with you about the "selling themselves" part. When I had my NYU interview, they gave us free stuff and a 40 minute presentation with a Q and A session with the Dean of academic education. At SUNY downstate on the other hand it was simply an in and out interview. No Q and A, no tour... On the other hand almost everyone from my program who went to downstate said they loved it, highlighting the extra responsibility students have with patients.

@alpinism you are right about the crazy diversity at Bellevue. Not only is it the #2 hospital system in the trip-state, someone I know who went to NYU said in one day she saw full blown jaundice and a 20something yo with undiagnosed TOF. I don't know how you can get to 20 without being diagnosed with TOF? But then again he was from another country. That person is now doing anesthesiology at NYU btw.

One thing that downstate clearly has over NYU is a public match list. Like NYU is a great school, just by walking through it and meeting with some of their students, that is obvious. But NYU happens to be the only school I'm interested in without a Match list. Unless anybody knows of a link????? Downstate's match list(which is online for the past couple years) is quite impressive. Students matching to Downstate, NYU, columbia, and many other programs in Pediatrics to Orthopedics and Urology. Even though downstate may not be as fancy and stuff compared to NYU, it is still a great school and residency directors must be aware of the quality of downstate's graduates.

It's really great that these forums exist, I never had such a difficult decision to make.

Hey, so you made a good point about NYU's match list not being easily accessible...and that made me think why is that? So I went hunting and I did find one from last year (2013) in this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2013-match-lists.991281/page-2

Seems like there's a lot of "inbreeding" but who wouldn't want to match to NYU's hospitals? lol


NYU!!

Anesthesiology
Icahan SOM at Mount Sinai
NYP-Columbia
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
Oregon Health and Science

Dermatology
Boston U
Emory
Emory
Indiana
Miami
Northwestern
NYP-Cornell
NYU


Diagnostic Radiology
Bringham
GWU
LIJ-Northshore
NYP-Columbia
NYP-Columbia
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
UCSD
St Louis U
St Lukes Roosevelt

Emergency Medicine
Albany Med
Einstein
Einstein/Jacobi
LIJ- North Shore
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
U Washington
U Washington

General Surgery
Icahan SOM at Mount Sinai
UCLA
LIJ-Northshore
U Maryland
Mount Sinai Med Ctr (Miami)
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
Temple
Yale
Yale

Thoracic Surgery
U Rochester

Internal Medicine
Beth Israel Deaconess
Bringham
Boston U
Bringham
Brown
Cambridge Health Alliance
U Chicago
Emory
Emory
Icahan SOM at Mount Sinai
Icahan SOM at Mount Sinai
Icahan SOM at Mount Sinai
Icahan SOM at Mount Sinai
Lennox Hill
LIJ-North Shore
LIJ-North Shore
U Maryland
Mass General
Northwestern
NYP-Columbia
NYP-Columbia
NYP-Columbia
NYP-Columbia
NYP-Cornell
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU
Thomas Jefferson
Tulane
UT Houston
U Rochester
UC San Francisco
U Washington
U Washington
Winthrop-U Hospital

Neurology
Buffalo
Georgetown
Icahan SOM at Mount Sinai
NYP-Cornell
NYP-Cornell
NYP-Cornell
Yale

Neurosurgery
U Maryland

OB/GYN
Brown
NYP-Cornell
NYU
UT Southwestern

Ophthalmology
Hofstra
NY Eye and Ear
NYU
Stanford
UMDNJ
UPMC

Orthopaedic Surgery
Thomas Jefferson
NYU
NYU
NYU
NYU

Otolaryngology
Medical University of SC

Pathology - None

Pediatrics
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
U Chicago
Icahan SOM at Mount Sinai
Icahan SOM at Mount Sinai
LA Childrens
NYP-Columbia
NYP-Columbia
NYP-Columbia
NYP-Cornell
NYP-Cornell
NYU
NYU
NYU
U Rochester
UC San Francisco
UC San Francisco
Yale
Yale

PM&R
U Washington

Plastic Surgery
NYU
NYP-Cornell

Psychiatry
Medical College of Georgia
NYU
NYU
NYU
Penn

Radiation Oncology
NYU
UMDNJ- W Johnson

 

[CR7MedStudent]

@Toastayy , wow, good hunting! And yeah, this is one of the few good cases of inbreeding lol. At least for NYU students.

 

[Toastayy]

@Toastayy , wow, good hunting! And yeah, this is one of the few good cases of inbreeding lol. At least for NYU students.

Thanks! It required some search. Whereas other schools have them fairly visible to the public. I wonder why they hide it? It looks pretty good to me.
SN: does your username CR7 refer to Christiano Ranaldo by any chance?

 

[CR7MedStudent]

I have no clue, I can't think of a reason why. And yeah, I'm a big soccer fan.