Aug 29, 2017
35
72
Status
Pre-Medical
Hello all,

Sorry if this has been asked before, but it seems like a relatively little discussed topic. This isn't that surprising as most people don't wait to get clinical hours. However, I have, and after speaking to my advisor, it's the one glaring mistake that would hold me back from a solid application. I am going through the onboarding process of now of becoming a full-time scribe (8-5 or so) and should definitely have at least some experience by the time secondary's would come around, and especially during an interview. I was wondering if there was a subtle way to make it known in the primary that I'm on my way to getting clinical experience, I just haven't yet.

Thanks for the help.
 

jtd2081

2+ Year Member
Dec 30, 2015
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Medical Student
Can you not put that in your experiences? Have you been hired yet?
 

DrHart

5+ Year Member
Jan 2, 2013
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Pre-Medical
Hello all,

Sorry if this has been asked before, but it seems like a relatively little discussed topic. This isn't that surprising as most people don't wait to get clinical hours. However, I have, and after speaking to my advisor, it's the one glaring mistake that would hold me back from a solid application. I am going through the onboarding process of now of becoming a full-time scribe (8-5 or so) and should definitely have at least some experience by the time secondary's would come around, and especially during an interview. I was wondering if there was a subtle way to make it known in the primary that I'm on my way to getting clinical experience, I just haven't yet.

Thanks for the help.
If you haven't yet submitted your primary. Wait. Take a deep breath. Take a gap year.
Your application will be enormously stronger with sustained clinical experience you've spent time to reflect on. Your application is already in the gutter if you have no clinical experience on your primary.
 
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Catalystik

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If you haven't yet submitted your primary. Wait. Take a deep breath. Take a gap year.
Your application will be enormously stronger with sustained clinical experience you've spent time to reflect on. Your application is already in the gutter if you have no clinical experience on your primary.
I agree with DrHart. Future experiences listed on an AMCAS Primary application will not be much regarded. It happens all too often that an applicant is forced to change plans for reasons beyond their control.
 
OP
H
Aug 29, 2017
35
72
Status
Pre-Medical
Thanks for all the responses.

A little backstory I guess may help. I essentially am mid-gap year right now, and if it continues to be that way so be it. Left SC and went to Cali to work in a lab. Working in a lab that I don't really care for now, more just wanted to see how viable an MD-PhD would be, I contacted my adviser to see what she thinks about a pretty late submission. She said with the GPA and MCAT I had a solid chance to get into in-state schools, although maybe this is bad information, I don't really know. Not saying that I REALLY expect anything, but just wanted to know if and when there was a place to do it, or even how to bring that up, either in a primary or secondary/interview if I get that lucky.
 

DrHart

5+ Year Member
Jan 2, 2013
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Thanks for all the responses.

A little backstory I guess may help. I essentially am mid-gap year right now, and if it continues to be that way so be it. Left SC and went to Cali to work in a lab. Working in a lab that I don't really care for now, more just wanted to see how viable an MD-PhD would be, I contacted my adviser to see what she thinks about a pretty late submission. She said with the GPA and MCAT I had a solid chance to get into in-state schools, although maybe this is bad information, I don't really know. Not saying that I REALLY expect anything, but just wanted to know if and when there was a place to do it, or even how to bring that up, either in a primary or secondary/interview if I get that lucky.
Here is a quote from gonnif, take from it what you will
The issue here is not being late in submitting
It is late to get the secondaries written and polished to fine degree that is needed to be competitive. That is up to decide how much you can get done in the next 4 weeks or so.
In your case, you would be crunched. Hard to speculate on things without knowing your whole app... but as is the mantra... aim to apply once with the best possible app. If you are in a gap year now, start getting clinical experience asap. Don't hit the submit button until you have something. (I'm not certain how many clinical hours are really needed for MD/PhD but I imagine it's more than none)
 

Catalystik

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wanted to see how viable an MD-PhD would be, I contacted my adviser to see what she thinks about a pretty late submission. She said with the GPA and MCAT I had a solid chance to get into in-state schools . . .. Not saying that I REALLY expect anything, but just wanted to know if and when there was a place to do it, or even how to bring that up, either in a primary or secondary/interview if I get that lucky.
It's true that MD/PhD programs tend to be less fussy about clinical experience, but they still expect you to have some basis for deciding to get an MD rather than a PhD-only. There are ways to sneak information into a Primary, even though one hasn't started an activity yet. And many Secondaries give one an opportunity to discuss plans for the application year. You can get help with personalized Primary application strategizing here: *~*~*~*Official AMCAS Work/Activities Tips Thread 2017-2018*~*~*~*

But really, I can't encourage this pathway, as the chance of a late applicant, even with high stats, without any clinical experience becoming a re-applicant is too high.
 
OP
H
Aug 29, 2017
35
72
Status
Pre-Medical
Thank you guys so much for the help. It was much appreciated.

But really, I can't encourage this pathway, as the chance of a late applicant, even with high stats, without any clinical experience becoming a re-applicant is too high.
Is there a punishment for being a re-applicant? Will I look worse or will my application the following year be diminished by the fact that I may have to reapply? If so then that is actually a serious concern.
 

Catalystik

The Gimlet Eye
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Sep 4, 2006
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Is there a punishment for being a re-applicant? Will I look worse or will my application the following year be diminished by the fact that I may have to reapply? If so then that is actually a serious concern.
Here is a relevant thread: Why is it so bad to be a reapplicant?

Have you looked on the websites of your state MD schools to see what their comments are regarding reapplicants? Some schools are tolerant.
 
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gonnif

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Sorry if this has been asked before, but it seems like a relatively little discussed topic. This isn't that surprising as most people don't wait to get clinical hours. However, I have, and after speaking to my advisor, it's the one glaring mistake that would hold me back from a solid application. I am going through the onboarding process of now of becoming a full-time scribe (8-5 or so) and should definitely have at least some experience by the time secondary's would come around, and especially during an interview. I was wondering if there was a subtle way to make it known in the primary that I'm on my way to getting clinical experience, I just haven't yet.
1) you dont have any yet and no evidence that you know what medicine is without the clinical experience. Therefore, applying without any is presumptive on its face.
2) you are applying late without the time needed to produce quality work for an application. I advise students that medical school applications, which will number from 10 to 25, are a full time job from mid-May until at least mid-August or longer. You are starting almost at the end of the first act.
3) At least 80% of all applications at any individual school must be rejected prior to interview as several thousand applications must be reduced to several hundred interviews. Over half of all applicants get 3 interviews or less out of 14 applications. You wont likely get a chance to mention your minimal clinical experience.
4) In a 2013 AAMC survey* where 127 medical admissions offices responded, found that healthcare experience, community service/volunteer experience, experience with underserved populations, navigated through cultural barriers or challenges, leadership experience were considered of higher importance in factors for interview invites and offers of acceptances. This was further borne out in the 2015 AAMC Survey** where 130 medical school admissions found that both community service or volunteer in both medical and non-medical settings ranked higher in importance than physician shadowing (see below)
5) Reapplicants are at a disadvantage Should I do a Masters in my gap year / WAMC / advice please

You are late, you are weak with no clinical experience, and you are doing nothing but wasting money and putting yourself for a worse position as reapplicant, thus reducing your chances of ever becoming a physicians
_____________________
*https://www.aamc.org/download/434596/data/usingmcatdata2016.pdf#page=7
see page 3 (pdf p7) Table 1. Mean Importance Ratings of Academic, Experiential, and Demographic Application Data Used by Admissions Committees for Making Decisions about Which Applicants to Receive an Interview Invitation and Offer Acceptance (N=127)

** https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/mcatguide.pdf#page=10
See page 4 (pdf page 9) Table 1. Mean Importance Ratings of Academic, Experiential, Demographic, and Interview Data Used by Admissions Committees for Making Decisions about Which Applicants Receive Interview Invitations and Acceptance Offers (N=130)
 
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Verity

2+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2016
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In general, you absolutely do not want to be in the position of being a re-applicant. Apply once, and apply right. Waiting another year to strengthen your application will positively affect your path for the rest of your life - you don't want to be closing doors now by being hasty. Or at least, that's the decision I came to after many months of frustration and trying to cram everything in (yeah... I finally accepted that it was a bad idea).
 
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