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clinical graduation requirments ??

Discussion in 'Dental' started by q8dentist, May 3, 2004.

  1. q8dentist

    q8dentist Junior Member

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    hi, all i just finished dental school , last week was my last week and i will officially signout next week, i was wondering about the clinical requiremnts at diffrent school. at Pittsbirgh dental school we have to finish the following:

    90 restorative ( amalgam, composites)
    13 pfm
    3 complete denture cases
    3 metal rpd
    5 anterior Rct and one molar
    10 prophy
    14 sc/rp
    18 extractions
    for pedo, we have to do 11 class one Pt. ( prophy and exam). 2 class two Pt.( restorative ), and one class 3 patient ( stainless steel cron and multiple ext.)

    i was hoping to know what are the req. at other schools.
    thanks
     
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  3. Hot-n-Aml

    Hot-n-Aml Part-time Canadian...
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    Congrats on your graduation! I'm in first year at UPitt, and I've always wanted a list of clinical requirements...so thanks :D

    take care,
    Hot-n-Aml
    _________________________________________________________
    UPitt, SDM, Class of 2007
     
  4. Yah-E

    Yah-E Toof Sniper
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    Is that just your 4th year requirements or both 3rd and 4th year requirements?

    Great thread btw!!!
     
  5. gryffindor

    Dentist 10+ Year Member

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    At SUNY Buffalo, we don't really have a laundry list of what you have to do to graduate. Every procedure we do gets assigned a certain number of points in that discipline, and you have to earn a minimum number of points in the different disciplines to pass Comprehensive Clinic.

    But with the point system, it was easy to get by and not do a fixed bridge b/c you did a lot of single-unit crowns instead to get all your fixed points. So the school put in some minimum requirements (right before accreditation earlier this year) starting with my class which are as follows:

    1 Perio Surgery
    1 Fixed Bridge (can be a Maryland bridge or 3+ unit bridge)
    1 set of Complete Dentures
    1 molar endo
    2 anterior endo (incisor, canine, or premolar)

    Those were minimums. If you had more than 1 of any of the above listed requirements in your patient family, it was courteous for you to share with your friends to help them meet the requirements. Most of us did try to help each other out if someone was missing something, and the school looked out for you too (except for the Endo dept., they are hopeless). Beyond that, everyone's experiences varies. I have no idea what my final count on crowns and fillings and cleanings and dentures are over the past 2 years, but I'll check and post it later this week. I'm sure if UBTom posted his experiences and I post mine, even though we are in the same class at the same school, you'll see our clinical experiences are quite varied in the types of dental things we did.
     
  6. DcS

    DcS damn the red baron
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    For UNC:


    Endodontics: 5 root canal treatments, including at least 2 molars

    Operative Dentistry: 475 quality points (Example: a restorative tx is # of surfaces x grade, so for an MOD that you get an A on, it's 3x4=12 pts)

    Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery: 40 extractions (minimum 15 in School clinic, remainder could be during extramural rotations)

    Oral Pathology: 2 biopsy interpretations

    Orthodontics: 1 simple movement case

    Pediatric Dentistry 6 credits, including minimum 4 child patient completion credits, minimum 1 extramural rotation (4-6 clinic sessions), 2 recall block clinics (beginning class of 2004)

    Periodontology: 10 scaling and root planing visits
    4 surgery assists (including at least one implant placement)
    5 post-initial therapy evaluations

    Prosthodontics-
    Fixed 16 units of crowns, abutments, pontics, implant retained crowns, and posts, including:
    Minimum10 natural tooth preparations
    Minimum 1 fixed partial denture

    Prosthodontics-
    Removable 10 units of removable prostheses including:
    Minimum 3 cast base removable partial dentures
    Minimum 4 complete dentures in School clinic
    Maximum 2 complete dentures during extramural rotation
    Maximum 1 unit interim or acrylic base partials (.5 unit each)
    Maximum 1 unit of lab processed relines (.5 unit each)
    Complete denture adapted to implants earns 5 unit

    Radiology: 10 consecutive full mouth series with a grade of 85 or better, or complete 2 additional FMS to achieve 85 average

    Special Care Complete 1 one week (half day) rotation in Special Care Clinic

    Urgent Care Complete 2 one week rotations in Urgent Care Clinic

    Patient Completion Credits 16 patients

    Extramural Rotations Complete 2 four-week extramural rotations


    YIKES!!
     
  7. sxr71

    sxr71 Senior Member
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    This is one of the most useful threads I have seen. This is the kind of information that would have helped me target specific schools several months ago. Hopefully this will really help next year's applicants.


    I heard BTW, that Temple has some of the toughest requirements for graduation (which I believe is a good thing).
     
  8. Yah-E

    Yah-E Toof Sniper
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    I'll get my 3rd year requirements in June, I'll be sure to share it with you all on here!
     
  9. larryd

    larryd Junior Member

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    NOVA requirements:

    Operative: 45 restorations (including 4 class 2 competency exams)
    Fixed: 6 crowns (including 2 competency exam crowns) also must do at least
    one bridge, and one cast post and core
    removable: 4 units of complete dentures (and one competency exam: a full
    set of dentures on one patient.)
    3 metal framework RPD's and one interim RPD
    perio: 20 prophys and 12 quads of SCRP (including 4 competency quads-one
    per semester)
    endo: 6 anterior or premolar teeth and one competency RCT (if you
    complete these than you can do endo on extracted molars, then
    perform RCT on molars on patients-however, not many students have
    this many cases)
     
  10. UBTom

    UBTom Class '04 official geezer
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    The clinical point requirements at my school to graduate (on top of the individual required procedures my classmate Griffin04 mentioned):

    440 points of operative (1-surf = 4pts, 2-surf = 6pts, 3-surf = 8pts, 4-surf/core buildup = 12pts).

    480 points of fixed (a single crown is worth 36 points). Must include at least one bridge case.

    440 points of removable (each arch of removable is worth 70 points, and must include at least one completely edentulous case and at least one RPD).

    80 points of endo (20 points for single-canal, 30 points for a 2-canal bi, and 40 points for a molar). Must include at least one molar endo case.

    440 points of perio (complete 4-quadrant S+RP case is worth 32 points). Must include at least 1 perio surgery and 2 perio cases. We do MAD amounts of perio at my school though so this is not a problem.

    360 points of oral diagnostics (comp exams, x-rays, biopsies, tx planning, etc., worth about 18 points per patient). This is not a problem if you work fast-- The sooner you complete the tx plan for one patient, the sooner you can put the pt. into the recall pool and ask for another.

    No specific point requirements for oral surgery because on your rotations and in the school clinics you are guaranteed to do A LOT of exos, but one has to complete the clinical competancy exam for extracting a tooth on a real patient to graduate.

    No specific point requirements for peds because on your rotations and in the school clinics you are guaranteed to do A LOT of pedo. One has to complete the clinical competancy exam in tx-planning for a child, one restorative procedure, and also a child recall too.




    Final tally of my dental school career:

    Operative: 570 points. That's A LOT of fillings. :eek:

    Fixed: 494 points. That's 10 crowns, one 4-unit FPD, and a whole slew of prefabricated and cast post+cores.

    Removable: 483 points. 4 arches of CU and CL dentures (including one completely edentulous case), 2 arches of RPDs, plus 4 interim RPDs and a bunch of chairside and lab relines + tooth additions.

    Perio: 630 points. I am so sick of doing recalls and scraping schmutz. :p We have an overabundance of perio at my school, and it shows.

    Endo: 120 points. Completed one RCT #27, two RCTs #12, and one RCT #31. Started a number of RCTs but had to give them away (our endo department has a policy of spreading the wealth to students who don't have cases).

    Oral diagnostics: 584 points (!). I've made a conscious effort to move patients through my pool as fast as I can. I want to graduate on time, dammit. :D

    Oral surgery: 235 points at my school clinics. I love doing exo's as long as they are not crumblies. :laugh:

    Peds: 210 points at my school clinics. We did a lot more on rotations to Children's Hospital in Buffalo but they didn't have a tracking system in place for the procedures we did there.

    I'd estimate I produced about $13,000 to $14,000 worth of procedures for my school, going by student fee schedules (which is 1/2 to 1/3 as much as a regular dentist would charge), and probably generated $17,000 to $18,000 worth of referrals for PG Endo, PG Perio and OMFS (going by PG-level fee schedules).

    Lots of my classmates produced more than I did.. As far as speed goes, I'd say I'm about the middle of the pack.

    It's been a fun 4 years!
     
  11. ToothMonkey

    ToothMonkey Senior Member
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    Funny you should mention that. The presentation given to interviewees this year mentioned in passing that the school has ZERO absolute requirements in terms of number of procedures. IIRC the statement (roughly paraphrased) went something like this:

    Am I nuts or does anyone else who interviewed at Pitt remember hearing something like this?

    I guess they changed the system since q8dentist started out. Either that, or they just fed us a steamy load of BS on interview day.

    Congrats on graduating! :thumbup:
     
  12. Dr.BadVibes

    Dr.BadVibes Membership Revoked
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    I really dont know the actual requirements for Temple, but even if its tough, having one of the largest patient pools in the country allows graduates to graduate with ease. I got email responses from 5 graduating Temple dental students and they all told me that finishing their requirements was no problem
     
  13. gpg

    gpg Senior Member
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    OK people .....

    lemme add some Indian flavour to the clinical environment...as you know we have clinics in afternoon in 3rd year(3 hrs) and in morning in final year(3-3.5 hrs) and full time in internship (6.5-7) hrs.....

    here is what I had to do in 3rd and 4th year:minimum work that is.....

    Conservative:40 cl I amalgam+ 25 cl II amalgam + 5 Cl V GIC

    Endo: 5 obturations+1 post and core(wax pattern and casting to be done by self) + 2 post-rc crowns.

    Prosthetics: 7 complete dentures+10 partials.....

    Pedo:45 amalgam fillings+10 prophy+5 pulpectomies+10 case histories

    Perio:30 3 sitting+20 2 sitting prophy....1 gingivectomy+1 curettage

    Oral surgery:350 extractions.....

    This is what I ended up doing....

    1000 extractions......

    at least 75 root canals....

    23 complete dentures.....30 partials.......5 FPD.....

    at least 200 amalgam fillings.....countless GICs......some composites too....

    around 10 surgical extractions.....mainly wisdom teeth....

    Prophylaxis.....100 cases......

    around 25 perio minor surgeries...like Gingivecs....curretages...operculectomy....

    I even got to do 5 flaps.....man that was amazing....totally got me hooked onto Perio....

    I still remember there was this day when I shot 200 radiographs by myself......man.....I was really exposed that day.....

    cool eh.......guess thats lot of clinical experience to step out of dental school with..... :thumbup:
     
  14. sxr71

    sxr71 Senior Member
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    That's what I heard about finding patients at Temple too. I was just wondering because I heard a rumor that you have to do something like 75 crowns to graduate. Again, I think that solid graduation requirements are a good thing, because it puts you in a good position if you start out getting paid based on production. I'm actually hoping that NYU has solid requirements to graduate.
     
  15. Firm

    Firm Member
    Dentist 10+ Year Member

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    At Tennessee we have a points based system also. The break down goes for 3rd and 4th year:


    Oral Surgery: 1420 pts (28 pts for single extraction case, 40 pts for multiple extraction case) 3 clinical exams (1.single extraction, 2.multiple extraction with flap and suture, 3. tooth removal using a striker)

    Orthodontics: Attend the rotations, take a competency exam

    Oral Diagnosis: 900pts (25-40pts per patient) Must take radiographs, and get complete health history from each patient. The number of points you get depends on how well you do.

    Perio: 1280pts (no more than 400pts from recalls, 480pts of patients who are type 2 or greater.) 3 clinical exams in 3rd year, 3 clinical exams in 4th year.
    3rd year exam(workup competency type 2 of greater, scaling competency type 2 or greater, progress assesment(scaling) type 2 or greater; 4th year (workup competency type 3 or greater, scaling competency type 3 or greater, Disease control evaluation type 3 or greater) Must finish case and do disease control evaluation before receiving points. So if they split during treatment tough luck. type 1 perio is worth 40pts (actually 5pts times your average grade which is normally an 8/10, you can get a 10/10 which would turn a type 1 into 50pts. So a prophy is 3pts, type 1 is 5 pts, type 2 is 8pts, type 3 is 12pts, type 4 is 15 pts. Patient must have at least 18 teeth to get full points.

    Operative: 2700pts, 4 clinical exams (class I,II,III,IV). A class I is worth 28 pts, MO is worth 34pts, MOD 38pts. Class IV is worth 25 pts. You can figure out how many proceedures you need to have to get to 2700pts

    Pedo: 1360pts for a C, 1460 for a B, 1560 for an A. 5 clincal exams. (workup, sealant exam, stainless steel crown, amalgam, and arch analysis) workup is worth 40 pts, extraction is worth 19pts. Amalgam is worth 25pts. Stainless steel crown is worth 50 pts

    Removable: 3500pts, 2 clinical exams (distal extension partial, complete denture both max and mand) each complete denture is worth 240pts, each partial is worth 280pts.

    Fixed: 26 crowns, pontics DO NOT count. (a 3 unit bridge is worth 2 crowns). Anterior bridge, Posterior bridge. 2 clinical exams (PFM, Gold)

    Endo: 600 pts, 480pts must be from obturation, other pts can come from recalls, internal bleaching, assisting, etc. Each canal obturated is worth 40pts up to 3 canals. If there is a 4th canal it is worth 15 pts. 2 canal PM is worth 80pts, 4 canal molar is worth 135pts. You must place the core, and get a final radiograph in order to receive credit. If the patient doesn't return mid-treatment, tough luck. Since most of the endo comes from emergency, most do not come back. You do a lot more root canals than you get credit for. You don't get credit even if you finished the case, but didn't get a final radiograph(with core placed). 1 clinical exam (multi-rooted tooth) There is no graduate endo to refer or bail you out.

    You are given a certain number of patients in your portfolio 15-20, and you are responsible for scheduling them(calling them), scheduling a chair in clinic and collecting there money. NO MONEY, NO POINTS. The patients often don't have money. It's hell.
     
  16. UBTom

    UBTom Class '04 official geezer
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    Yeah... That's a chronic problem at my school too. If a patient is in arrears for a procedure you performed, you lose the points for it, and furthermore the patient is barred from any further treatment until the bill is settled.

    Even though compared to private dentists our fees are VERY reasonable for big-ticket items like FPDs, it will still cost upwards of $700 for a bridge and there just aren't very many patients willing to pay for it. That's why my school scaled back the requirements for some of these expensive procedures, otherwise a lot of people won't be able to graduate!
     
  17. gryffindor

    Dentist 10+ Year Member

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    Really? I never encountered that, at least not where they revoke the points. And I'm sure if you did a sufficient amount of work that deserved credit, you could go talk to the appropriate people - business office, patient QA coordinator, clinical dean - and get the credit, even if the patient bailed on payment.

    The patient being barred from treatment, however, I did come across that. I usually made sure I didn't start anything they couldn't afford.

    With all these clinical things everyone has mentioned in this thread, LUCK plays a big factor in this too.
     
  18. UBTom

    UBTom Class '04 official geezer
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    Hey classmate,

    Yeah, I encountered this a lot in Pedo. A few weeks after my rotation I'd check my CPU details in Picasso and there would be a bunch of red V's next to some of the pedo procedures I did. The V is for revoked, and I lost a whole bunch of CPUs because the parents didn't pay. Thank goodness I never had this happen with my regular clinic patients, otherwise I'd really be in the sh*tter! :D
     
  19. gryffindor

    Dentist 10+ Year Member

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    Pedo.... ah, story is much clearer now.

    Pedo is right at the top of my "List-o-things that REALLY SUCK" at my exit interview next week.

    If ever there was a dept. that made students hate an aspect of dentistry, it would be the evil Pedo dept with all their rules and paperwork. They're kids! Kids believe anything you tell them. Kids shouldn't be hard. Why must the Pedo dept. make it so difficult!

    Yeah, if my Pedo points were revoked b/c the parents didn't pay, I wouldn't bother fighting it either. You may lose your last shred of sanity and might not make it out alive if you start a conversation with the loquacious (and very irritating) course director in that dept....
     
  20. Meggs

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    If you do more than the minimum requirements, will you get a better grade?

    Well, actually I should have asked first, do you get regular letter grades on the clinical areas? Like A- on pedo, B on oral surgery, B- on perio, etc...?

    How is this on the rest of the schools?
     
  21. UBTom

    UBTom Class '04 official geezer
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    At Buffalo, yes, more production = better grades.. In comprehensive clinic, they got minimums production points that you must fulfill-- For a "D". Most guys are able to surpass that though and earn at least a "C" or better. Faculty evaluation (you have to work with a certain number of faculty a number of times) can also bring that grade up or down.

    Problem is that a lot of it depends on luck-- If you have patients who are unreliable, you are screwed... The beginning of this last semester was brutal for me. I had a whole week (10 clinical periods) that I couldn't get a single patient to come in. Later towards the end of the semester I had to make up for it by cranking up my speed, booking up to 4 patients a day. I'm still amazed I fulfilled the requirements to graduate despite having what seems to be the most unreliable and non-compliant patients in the school assigned to me. :p

    Meanwhile I have a whole bunch of classmates who already fulfilled their graduation requirements by January. :eek:

    There are at least four people from my class that I know of who didn't fulfill their clinical requirements and have to stay another semester or year. Still, out of a class of 89 that ain't too bad..
     

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