Clinical Skills Exam

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sacrament

somewhere east
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FYI

From a 3rd year at OHSU (posted entirely without permission):

Here is a brief synopsis of what I learned about the new clinical skills exam at the AAMC meeting.

- The CSE is considered part of USMLE Step 2. Step 2 is now divided into two parts - Clinical Knowledge (CK) which is the original step 2 exam and Clinical Skills (CS) which is the clinical skills exam.

- Test is composed of 12 encounters. We are given 15 minutes for the H&P and 10 minutes to write a patient note. In addition to the standard patient encounter we will have to do a third party interview (parent with a young child) and a telephone interview.

- Evaluation is based on three separate criteria.
1) Integrated Physical Encounter - Evaluates skill at doing a history and physical as well as ability to write a SOAP note.
2) Communication and Interpersonal Skills - Judges ability to gather information and develop rapport with patients.
3) Spoken English Proficiency - I guess this is find out whether we finished 3rd grade . . .

- The CS portion of Step 2 is pass/fail. Only those who did not pass the exam will get a graphic representation of their performance for both remediation and further learning.

- Rescheduling the exam is expensive - $400 if you do not show up on the day of the exam. $150 if you give less than 30 days notice. $50 if you give more than 30 days notice.

Probably not new info for most of you.

I still think there should be active, violent revolt.

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Spoken English Proficiency?? :confused:

There is also going to be a clinical skills exam for DO students, but I don't know if it has an "English Proficiency" section. At least that is a section everyone should pass with flying colors :D

How much does the USMLE version cost? The COMLEX version is $965 and only offered in Philadelphia (so you have to figure in travel expenses as well) +pissed+
 
Originally posted by DOtobe

How much does the USMLE version cost? The COMLEX version is $965 and only offered in Philadelphia (so you have to figure in travel expenses as well) +pissed+

I think it costs right around $1000. It's a scam.
 
Originally posted by sacrament
I think it costs right around $1000. It's a scam.

Not only that, but we'll be in the second group to take the exam

translation:
we're going to pay $1000 + to be guinea pigs. top that with the fact that since the test will be new, residency programs won't really know what to make of the results. :rolleyes:
 
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Originally posted by DrMom
Not only that, but we'll be in the second group to take the exam

translation:
we're going to pay $1000 + to be guinea pigs. top that with the fact that since the test will be new, residency programs won't really know what to make of the results. :rolleyes:

Well at least we won't be the first group to take it. As pissed as I am now, I'd be twice as pissed if I was in the class of 2005, going into it almost completely blind.
 
what's this about the SOAP note? will we be able to dictate or type these? my handwriting is very illegible!
 
A telephone interview?? That sounds funny. I'm wondering what will Kaplan come up with to prepare people for that part. Do med students in the States actually have experience of that kind??
Regarding what the residency programms will do with the results, how many ways are there to intepret a pass/fail exam with no grading?
 
Originally posted by sacrament
Well at least we won't be the first group to take it. As pissed as I am now, I'd be twice as pissed if I was in the class of 2005, going into it almost completely blind.

Add me to that "twice as pissed" category.

It sucks to be the guinea pig. :mad: +pissed+
 
Another Class of 2005'er here, equally pissed. Especially because I had to reapply after not getting in to the Class of 2004!
 
2005'er here, too!

This test is freaking me out. I'm the typical get-nervous-and-talk-too-fast type, which I'll really have to work on.

Hopefully I'll be taking mine in early July. When are y'all taking yours?
 
Are you DO students gonna take USMLE 2 & COMLEX 2 clinical skills exam? My lord dat would be alot of money.
 
Nope. Most DOs will just take the COMLEX version. Taking the USMLE one would be of no help as it is only a pass/fail test. I do not think there is a certain score like with the other Step 1 and Step 2 exams.

However, if there is, then the DO students interested in allopathic residency spots may end up taking it, but I do not see that as a likely thing.

Anyway, 90% of DOs only take USMLE Step 1 just to help the PDs compare apples to apples when granting interviews. Most do not take USMLE Step 2.

Normalforce
 
Do you guys do similar clinical skills tests at your schools? We do during 1st and 2nd year and the 2nd year exam sounds a lot like the clinical skills exam. At least that way, you have an idea of what's going on and you've "practiced" with standardized patients.
 
OK, so it's not too late to try something radical like getting an injunction to block the test until more safeguards are put in place. Problems exist with the CSE. Examples include the absence of a formal appeal process in the case of failing the exam. Since the exam is graded through subjective opinion of trained observers (not experienced, practicing clinical, physicians) there needs to be an appeal process established prior to requiring the CSE component of step 2.

There is also the reality of testing bias for students residing in a testing site community vs. somebody who has traveled overnight or overseas and might be physically/mentally exhausted. It's true the test is pass/fail however an exhausted student traveling from California to Atlanta will most certainly be at increased risk of failing the exam vs. a student living in Atlanta.

What about economic bias and discrimination. Why should a student in Arizona be required to pay for travel and lodging to a test site, while those local students do not have any extra financial burden. There is potential racial bias. Students with financial resources will be able to afford a flight at decent hours of the day, spend one or two days lodging and then adjust to jet lag and take the test when relaxed and refreshed. Other students will have to leave their hometown at 9 p.m. in the evening, travel through the night and take the test when completely exhausted. How does this not qualify as economic discrimination? I also wonder whether this becomes racial discrimination if a predominance of under represented minority students wind up as those unable to afford the cush travel accomodations.

What about specific instances where an individual's travel is disrupted from increased security alerts at airports. In the worse case, what if somebody's flight is completely cancelled because of security problems. As recently occurred, what if the pilot is drunk and the flight is cancelled. There are currently no processes established to accomodate these types of problems. If this happens, you end up paying a $500 rescheduling fee. Until formal safeguards are in place to handle these types of potential problems, the test should not be mandated.

So far it doesn't look as though they have all of the testing centers finalized. What about a failure of NBME to adequately verify the test itself along with each of the testing sites. They previously used students at just three Philadelphia schools and four Georgia schools and they looked at just one center in Atlanta. Are students from seven east coast schools suppose to represent the entire nation's medical school population? There has simply been no full scale verification of any testing center other than Atlanta which means you are paying $975 to validate the NBME testing process. As I've said before, this is called beta testing, and generally the company pays the test takers. Not the other way around.

All in all the best way to halt or at least delay the CSE is a lawsuit requesting an injuction of the test until the numerous concerns are resolved. The CSE might be a good idea once adequate protection is in place to prevent errors. But until then, the disasterous outcome resulting from NBME error should be considered unacceptable by everyone.

Anybody know a lawyer or perhaps was a laywer in a past career? If there's power in numbers, I'm more than willing to sign my name to a lawsuit.

Stop the CSE!

Here are the sites I base my conclusions on.
http://www.usmle.org/news/cse/step2csfaqs1103.htm
http://www.usmle.org/news/cse/cseftresults2503.htm
http://www.nbme.org/programs/step2csreg1.asp
 
I am a 2005er, I agree this test is S&%#. Proficency in English they have to be kiding right. Anyhow when do you have to drop the grand for the test? Do you pay as soon as you register I cant remember what the case was with step 1.
 
You can pay when you fill out Part A online, or you can send a check in when you submit the form that your dean has to sign (Part B). You are not officially registered until they get the money, though.
 
For years, every single american or canadian citizen who graduates medschool abroad has been forced to take the TOEFL (Test of English as a FOREIGN LANGUAGE:( ), and then the CSA, with its "spoken english" component and all. Where were you nay sayers then?

All this reminds me of Martin Niemoller:

In Germany, they first came for the communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Catholic. Then they came for me -- and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.
-Martin Niemoller
 
Just to add insult to injury - my medical school has just added a practice test that we are going to be forced to take in order to prepare us for the CSE. And we got an email from the school saying that "it is very expensive to train people to admisister the practice exam, so each student will be charged $700." Thats in addition to the fee for the actual test. We had no say in any of these decisions.

Our class is in an uproar, and I have asked our student government to try and do something about it, along with getting them to contact the student govs at other med schools to see if we can organize ourselves and stop the madness that is the Step 2 CSE.

Seriously, no taxation without representation, right?

I don't know any lawyers and certainly can't afford to hire one but I agree we should try somethig to stop this.
 
Another class of 2005er here. I'm also absolutely ticked off that I have to a BS of an exam. At the same time, I'm at a loss as to what I can do to stop this. Problem is that the class of 2005 is currently rotating through their third year clerkship. Most of us don't have the time or energy to band together and do something about this. Also, who wants to possibly jeopardize their residency application by participating in a boycott of a profiency test that the public evidently supports and believes in.

Our national organizations such as AMSA and AMA are doing nothing! They are not going to be getting any more monetary support in the future from me.
 
I am also in the class of 2005. I am looking to start a web page that would be easily accessible and mainly used as a forum to discuss this issue and plan a way to block it. This would involve at the very least a petition and a forum to discuss legal issues.

I am also not so sure that taking an active role in one's own education is something that a residency program would look down on. I am going to email the residency director for pediatrics (field I am inerested in) who is a very prominent physician in the U.S. to see what his views on the subject are. He is very good about replying and being candid - I will let you know what his stance is.

If anyone thinks trying to fight this would be a bad idea, please let us know. Any ideas at all would be welcome as well.
 
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