LizzyM

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lizt said:
Hello,
I am currently volunteering at a rehabilitation center. I help with recreation activities and visit with people in their rooms. Does this count as clinical experience? I didn't think it did due to the nature of what I do there, but I wasn't sure.
Thanks
If you are close enough to "smell patients" it is a clinical experience. After you've been there awhile, try to get a physician who rounds there to let you shadow him/her. Also try to get a few minutes to talk with a nurse, a therapist, and with other health care professionals about health care related issues (as a physician you will be the leader of this team of professionals).
 
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LizzyM

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lizt said:
so does this count as a clinical experience?
i mean, i am wheeling around patients in wheelchairs and am in their rooms, but i'm not there when they are being treated
Yes, it is clinical. Make conversation. Ask about their appetite, ask about their sleep. Ask if they are feeling a little better, a little stronger today. Orient them to date and time, talk about the weather outside, what's blooming, what the forecast is for tomorrow. To become confortable with relative strangers, to be able to ask questions and assess patients is a good skill to learn.

Talk with health professionals when you can, during meals or breaks or when you have a minute or two of down time. What are the problems that most often land people in this institution. What is the biggest challenge at that place? What predicts a successful rehab of a patient at this facility? What is the average length of stay? What are the most dangerous complications that can occur in these patients? What are some of the warning signs that you might be on the look out for? Those are the kinds of questions you can ask of nurses & therapists.
 

whateva07

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I interned at NIH for a significant period of time during my senior year of high school, and during my time there I was a co-author of a manuscript (unpublished journal). I wanted to know if my research experience at NIH is something that I could put on my application for medical schools.
 

LizzyM

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whateva07 said:
I interned at NIH for a significant period of time during my senior year of high school, and during my time there I was a co-author of a manuscript (unpublished journal). I wanted to know if my research experience at NIH is something that I could put on my application for medical schools.
What you did in college high school is usually not included on the AMCAS (exceptions might be really big awards like Intel Science Prize). Papers that are never published don't count for beans. What have you done lately? That's what the adcom wants to know.
 

whateva07

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LizzyM said:
What you did in college is usually not included on the AMCAS (exceptions might be really big awards like Intel Science Prize). Papers that are never published don't count for beans. What have you done lately? That's what the adcom wants to know.
You mean high school right?
 

LizzyM

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whateva07 said:
You mean high school right?
Yeah, obviously up too late last night.
 

zach1201

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whateva07 said:
I interned at NIH for a significant period of time during my senior year of high school, and during my time there I was a co-author of a manuscript (unpublished journal). I wanted to know if my research experience at NIH is something that I could put on my application for medical schools.
F that. Put it in your AMCAS. Working at the NIH is a deal and shows that you've had significant research experience in your life. It is something to bring to an ADCOMS attention.
 

whateva07

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Yea I really think I should put it, because I'm still in undergrad and if people who graduate can put college + other experience isnt it the same thing? Thats how I see it, but I dont want to put it if adcom isnt even willing to look at any hs stuff regardless. So if anyone knows about that, please let me know.
 

LizzyM

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The big question is, did you do any research in college. If no, then having done something in high school is unimpressive! Why did you drop it will be the huge question. If you are applying to top tier research schools then you must have college-level research experience. You can't rest on your laurels.

If you are interested in primary care, having done research in H.S. is, again, unlikely to impress adcoms at those schools.
 

zach1201

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The fact that you've done the research should show some sort of dedication. What if he/she moved away from their laboratory and couldn't continue the research?

Put it another way, do you think it looks better or worse that he/she doesn't put down any research experience or they put down that they worked at a prestigous institute and obtained many basic science experiences. To say that anything you did before college is meaningless defeats the purpose of what has contributed to your decision of becoming a doctor.

Don't get me wrong, if you did scut work such as cleaning dishes, etc... then it's not worthwhile. If you put it in 40 hrs/week, it's another story.
 

LizzyM

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zach1201 said:
The fact that you've done the research should show some sort of dedication. What if he/she moved away from their laboratory and couldn't continue the research?

Put it another way, do you think it looks better or worse that he/she doesn't put down any research experience or they put down that they worked at a prestigous institute and obtained many basic science experiences. To say that anything you did before college is meaningless defeats the purpose of what has contributed to your decision of becoming a doctor.

Don't get me wrong, if you did scut work such as cleaning dishes, etc... then it's not worthwhile. If you put it in 40 hrs/week, it's another story.

The AMCAS EC section is for activities in college and beyond. Some make an exception for exceptional acheivement in h.s. which might include Eagle Scout (some debate about this) or Intel Science Prize (and that type of major college scholarship awarded for an outstanding research project). Anything else, if it goes to your motivation to go into medicine, belongs in the PS. The EC is all about "what have you done lately". Someone who did research in H.S. but not in college has some explaining to do. It isn't about moving away from the lab-- find a new PI, connect with a different lab. People who want to do research should show a track record... H.S. only is not such a track record. People who don't want to do research, why include it among the ECs as it is irrelevant?
 

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LizzyM said:
why include it among the ECs as it is irrelevant?
That's where I think you and I disagree. The primary is a chance for you to show to medical schools what you have done to determine or "prove" that you want to become a doctor. If you're unable to show this, for the most part, you won't advance to the next step (i.e. secondaries, interviews). Without actually presenting the fact that you did research, how will the people that are evaluating you for this process ever know that you have done research?

I understand that PS is what motivates you to go into medicine. But the fact that the PS is limited in characters and they give you a huge chance to elaborate on your experiences in the EC section, I feel that something as significant as research should be included. Especially if you're published for the research.

And you're right, people who want to do research show a track record of research throughout their secondary education. But our friend here, wants to know whether he/she should put research from the NIH down. Working at a prestigous institute such as the NIH is very much worth putting down on your application. Even if many ADCOMS disregard it, it may peak the interest of 1 or 2 of them. It also is a good topic starter in interviews.

The pros far outway any cons you may come up with and is worth putting down on the application - if you have space.
 

LizzyM

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zach1201 said:
That's where I think you and I disagree. The primary is a chance for you to show to medical schools what you have done to determine or "prove" that you want to become a doctor. If you're unable to show this, for the most part, you won't advance to the next step (i.e. secondaries, interviews). Without actually presenting the fact that you did research, how will the people that are evaluating you for this process ever know that you have done research?
As an adcom member, I'm telling you that we don't care what anyone did in H.S. unless they discovered a cure for cancer.

I feel that something as significant as research should be included. Especially if you're published for the research.
But this guy's research is unpublished.

And you're right, people who want to do research show a track record of research throughout their secondary education.
Make that POST-secondary education. We're interested in work done in college or later.

Working at a prestigous institute such as the NIH is very much worth putting down on your application.
Prestigous to laypeople but not to adcoms. There are a zillion recent college grads putting in a year there to buff their appies. What a H.S. student could do there can be imagined and it is not going to impress an adcom.

Now, I know of a high school where the students do some impressive DNA sequencing work. A group of students from the school present at a professional genetic sequencing conference every year. Those students are out there asking for a slot in a lab as soon as they get to college so that they have something really impressive to put in the EC section of the AMCAS. You've got to build on what you did in HS; there is no "credit" for work done at that time, just as there is no "credit" for candystriping in HS.
 

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LizzyM said:
Make that POST-secondary education. We're interested in work done in college or later.
What about stuff done during the summer between hs graduation and freshmen year of college? Would that be included?
 

LizzyM

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It is a stretch. Since it says, since HS, then technically if is ok. Some people have so many ECs that they drop that summer to focus on the other summers, etc., particularly if they are non-trad and have a lot more to report (so as not to leave gaps).
 

zach1201

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I do confess, I'm using my personal experiences to help validate whateva's experiences. I worked in a lab every summer high school - end of first year college. Presented and published for this work during college, worked on 3 major projects, etc...

I do realize that putting a summers worth of experience isn't impressive at all, but working at the NIH has to count for something, right?

The real question is, can putting down research in high school that you were vested in have a negative impact on your application? It may not help it, in your opinion, but will it hurt it?
 

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I don't think it hurts to add it it. However, if you can use that space on your app to talk about something else meaningful, then it would certainly be better to do that.
 

LizzyM

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zach1201 said:
I do confess, I'm using my personal experiences to help validate whateva's experiences. I worked in a lab every summer high school - end of first year college. Presented and published for this work during college, worked on 3 major projects, etc...

I do realize that putting a summers worth of experience isn't impressive at all, but working at the NIH has to count for something, right?

The real question is, can putting down research in high school that you were vested in have a negative impact on your application? It may not help it, in your opinion, but will it hurt it?

Let me use an example. Let's set HS graduation at 2002.

Reserach 6/99-8/03 (summers only) = Good - Be proud
Research 6/98-8/02 (summers only) = OK
Research 6/97-8/01 (summers only) = BEEEEP why the heck is this kid listing stuff he did in H.S.

The AMCAS asks for ECs since HS graduation. Give the adcom what they want, not what you think will impress them.
 
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