clueless and about to graduate

[drbuda]

hi guys,

first things first, i'm a med student who is about to graduate from Hungary very soon. I am an EU citizen and native english speaker .I have no idea what I should do next .I would like to work in the UK or Canada but have no idea of the steps I should take. my end goal is to go down the plastic surgery route as I spent many hours in the operating rooms in Hungary and other countries(during summer practices) and this type of surgery really jumped out at me.

I need some help from the members here. I would like to start my career in the UK or Canada, but I am not closed off to the option of moving to a non english speaking country and learn a new language.

If somebody could break the process down for me i'd really appreciate it, I've been readin this forum so much but my head is just swimming.

regards

drbuda

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[shreypete]

UK and Canada are pretty much out of the question unless you have some good contacts in those countries. I would recommend any of the Scandinavian countries (with the exception of Finland as I don't know much about it).

 

[drbuda]

UK and Canada are pretty much out of the question unless you have some good contacts in those countries. I would recommend any of the Scandinavian countries (with the exception of Finland as I don't know much about it).

hi, thanks for the reply,

the uk and canada are out because of impossibility of getting a surgical rotation there or they are closed off to graduates from eastern europe universities in general?

 

[Renalmedic]

The UK is not out-of-the question, as an EU graduate you are apparently at an acceptable standard. However, you have missed the chance to apply for Foundation training this year, you need to register over the summer - look at http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/pages/home for details.

If you were able to get onto the foundation program you would find it relatively easy to get into the surgical Core Training program and from there as easy to get into plastics as any other surgeon practicing in the UK.

You do not have to sit the PLAB or any other sort of test that would help root out undertrained and incompetent doctors from the arse end of the EU. Because of this, expect to be discriminated against compared to UK trained doctors.

 

[drbuda]

renalmedic...you seem to have some opinions about doctors from the 'arse end of europe' have you had any experience with the knowledge or clinical competency from graduates from Hungary?

 

[Renalmedic]

renalmedic...you seem to have some opinions about doctors from the 'arse end of europe' have you had any experience with the knowledge or clinical competency from graduates from Hungary?

I've only worked with one person who graduated from Hungary, not enough to form any true opinion. However, I have worked with doctors from other arse end countries who are undertrained compared to UK medics and I do know that there are deep seated prejudices within the medical profession about doctors trained overseas.

 

[drbuda]

renalmedic..........do you think the predjudices continue even after the f1 and f2 years?

 

[Renalmedic]

renalmedic..........do you think the predjudices continue even after the f1 and f2 years?

I don't know to be honest, I think it depends. The big difference is that after that nobody really cares where you went to school, just where you've worked and what you've done.

 

[Manarola]

I'd have to agree with Renalmedic. Wherever you go, there will always be those who think your degree is below the standard of locally trained physicians. You'll deal with that anywhere. The EU is the best option because EU/EEA states tend to accept each others' degrees.

As for Canada and the U.S., have you taken the MCCEE (Canada) or USMLEs (US) yet? From what I hear, Canada is quite difficult. Each province has it's own rules regarding IMGs. In the U.S., there is more flexibility, but you need good USMLE scores, ECFMG certification and you may need to get your foot in the door by doing some extra electives or observerships.

 

[drbuda]

I'd have to agree with Renalmedic. Wherever you go, there will always be those who think your degree is below the standard of locally trained physicians. You'll deal with that anywhere. The EU is the best option because EU/EEA states tend to accept each others' degrees.

As for Canada and the U.S., have you taken the MCCEE (Canada) or USMLEs (US) yet? From what I hear, Canada is quite difficult. Each province has it's own rules regarding IMGs. In the U.S., there is more flexibility, but you need good USMLE scores, ECFMG certification and you may need to get your foot in the door by doing some extra electives or observerships.

i havent taken the mccee's yet. but i plan to, I am really interested in the uk or canada, i've been there (canada) many times and really enjoyed it, seemed like a great place to live and work.

 

[shreypete]

The reason I said UK was out of the picture is because even though you do apply for the foundation year program, there is not guarantee that you will be employed after that. There is a very very high unemployment for foreign doctors in UK and this makes it harder. However, as an EU citizen, you might have some advantages indeed (like the exemption of PLAB and so on).

I would really recommend Norway. I did read an article online where Norway was recruiting tons of Hungarian medical graduates (as they're in need for doctors) and the doctors are also very well satisfied (in terms of working conditions, living conditions and salaries). Norway is one of the most expensive countries with a high standard of life and so they also pay their doctors really well.

 

[Manarola]

I advise against Norway. In general, it is easier, but you have to bear the following in mind. 1. Obtaining a turnus/1 year residency position (it's not uncommon to have to wait a year or two for this as everyone wants to work in Norway and the Norwegians want these positions themselves), 2. You'll have the language to contend with - which would be at least one full year set aside to work on the language. 3. There is a call from politicians now to revise policy forcing all newly educated doctors to take municipial positions in elder care facilities or work as rural general practitioners. As you are more interested in specialising in plastic surgery, I don't think Norway is the best option for you.

 

[drbuda]

The reason I said UK was out of the picture is because even though you do apply for the foundation year program, there is not guarantee that you will be employed after that. There is a very very high unemployment for foreign doctors in UK and this makes it harder. However, as an EU citizen, you might have some advantages indeed (like the exemption of PLAB and so on).

I would really recommend Norway. I did read an article online where Norway was recruiting tons of Hungarian medical graduates (as they're in need for doctors) and the doctors are also very well satisfied (in terms of working conditions, living conditions and salaries). Norway is one of the most expensive countries with a high standard of life and so they also pay their doctors really well.

the thing is with norway is that they are recruiting now, but, there are a lot of norwegian students here in hungary in all of the 4 universities in the country so there will be a surplus in the future.

The thing is i'm an irish national and therefore a native english speaker, but also fluent in 3 other languages so I think the Uk will be the best opportunity for me at the moment.

shreypete.....these unemployed doctors you spoke about...they did the f1 and f2 years and still found no work...were they EU trained or from outside the union?....if they were EU trained and still didnt find gainful employment, I would find it a bit worrying to be honest, as i dont want to waste any time out of work

 

[Renalmedic]

The reason I said UK was out of the picture is because even though you do apply for the foundation year program, there is not guarantee that you will be employed after that. There is a very very high unemployment for foreign doctors in UK and this makes it harder. However, as an EU citizen, you might have some advantages indeed (like the exemption of PLAB and so on).

Are you confusing unemployed with unable to get a training post?

 

[shreypete]

Oops I think I just did...I'm sorry... I sort of assumed that the OP wanted to work in London after his/her residency...my fault

 

[Renalmedic]

Oops I think I just did...I'm sorry... I sort of assumed that the OP wanted to work in London after his/her residency...my fault

I'm not sure it matters too much where in the country you want to do your specialist training - there are a limited number of CT/ST jobs and a limited number of CT/ST jobs in most people's chosen speciality, but there apparently enough jobs to go round provided people don't mind doing career grade or locum work.