Columbia vs Yale?

[mirla]

Columbia is in NY, but the Yale system just seemed so friendly and relatively stress-free. Anyone have any thoughts? New Haven?

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[Joe Joe on da Radio]

there is nothing to do in new haven. nothing.

 

[wexy]

im intreested i this question too- right now I have a deposit at Yale but I am not sure how hard I should try to get off the Columbia waitlist. Any other thoughts?

thanks!

- wexy

 

[JM.]

There are things to do in New Haven. I went there to visit a guy friend. We went to this bar that had the best people watching I have ever experienced, not even rivaled by NYC. Bu then again, there was only one. Dunkin Donuts is good and there are some nice restuarants.

And if you go to Yale, I may get into Columbia, so by all means......

They have two really different curriculums though, and you have to think about that.

 

[PrettyPlease]

NYC is a lot more happening than New Haven

I've heard Yale med grads are not very well respected in the profession. I think Columbia is usually a dream school for many, while i'm not so sure if that's the fact about yale.

 

[fava]

Originally posted by PrettyPlease
I've heard Yale med grads are not very well respected in the profession.

mmm, i tend to disagree here. have you seen their match list??!? i personally would take yale over columbia any day of the week. the students there seemed much much happier to me, and i think new haven's a pretty cool place. plus, i felt like there was more of a "community" feel at yale. i like that the med school and the undergrad and graduate campuses are all within walking distance.
(wexy -- go to yale!!!)

 

[PrettyPlease]

I didn't get into either but I'd pick columbia in a heart beat. I interviewed at both. wexy go to columbia

wexy aren't you an undergrad at yale anyway? aren't you sick of new haven already? bleh

 

[surge]

Originally posted by PrettyPlease
I've heard Yale med grads are not very well respected in the profession.

Thank god residency directors think the exact opposite...


Either way, clearly noone goes to Yale for New Haven. There is more to do in NYC than any other place in the world, so New Haven is no exception.

But Yale has something that's extremely important to me. Yale's campus and New Haven have a true university town feel. The concentration of intellectual and cultural stimulation is unprecedented in such a small area (only schools in college towns that have everything on the same campus have this feel). And there is no doubt that Yale had the happiest students I ran into on my interview trail. Those kids are truly thrilled about being there and they have great school spirit. Hard to blame them: extremely flexible curriculum, no exams, emphasis on out-of-class work, volunteer and humanitarian efforts, social aspects (weekly club Med, 2nd year show, etc.) - all this while essentially not having to worry as they are graduates of one of the top schools both in terms of residency placement and research. I walked away from Yale with a feel that I would truly be a part of something great, not just get good training.
New Haven has its little niches, and there is always so much going on on campus it's hard to get bored. And Manhattan is 1:15 away on the train...

But it's a hard decision, no doubt.

 

[bez2]

I would go to Columbia. If you are a big city person than there is not substitute for New York, especially New Haven. I believe the flexibility of the Yale curriculum is exaggerated. You still need to take exams and pass them. I personally found the students at Columbia to be extremely happy and diverse. I would also say that Columbia is able to offer some of the benefits of having an undergraduate campus because of the proximity to Columbia Undergrad. Plus I am going to Columbia.

 

[dumbest premed]

Originally posted by mirla
Columbia is in NY, but the Yale system just seemed so friendly and relatively stress-free. Anyone have any thoughts? New Haven?

What do you like better....Abercrombie or slacks and a tie?

 

[fava]

Originally posted by dumbest premed
What do you like better....Abercrombie or slacks and a tie?

i don't get it.
yale is so not "slacks and a tie." it's not very abercrombie either.
wait, what?

 

[dumbest premed]

Originally posted by fava
i don't get it.
yale is so not "slacks and a tie." it's not very abercrombie either.
wait, what?

I have a friend from high school in Yale and when I visited him I got the impression that the students dress "neatly." I saw several people wearing very preppy outfits(pants, shirt, sweater, and some even wearing a tie).

When I checked out Columbia for undergrad, though, it seemed like more students were dressed in Abercrombie and American Eagle type stuff.

This is just a generalization I made...Haven't been to Columbia in over 3 years or to Yale in over 2 years.

 

[surge]

Don't confuse medschool/grad school and undergrad.

Most medstudents are not undergrad Yalies, hence their attitudes can be very different from undergrad kids.

For what it's worth, I spent a summer at YSM and I can tell you that people wear mostly shorts and t-shirts. During the year, there's a variety, unless, of course, professional attire is required.


(can't believe I actually took the time to write this as it clearly wasn't meant to be taken seriously )

 

[kreno]

Compare match lists! Enough said...

YALE!

kreno

well, one more thing... you have such a RIDICULOUS opportunity to pursue research endeavors at Yale... if this is important to you, then you might get more out of a yale-style education.

 

[Sapphire1416]

rumor has it that 10% of yale's class that took the boards this year didn't pass...rumor also has it that they're planning on changing the system...

can anyone vouch for that?

 

[fava]

nahhh... that CAN'T be true. (can it??)
i feel like more of us would have heard about that if it were true. and i highly doubt that yale would ever make any DRASTIC changes to its system. maybe tweak some things here and there, but i'm sure it will stay essentially the same.

 

[dumbest premed]

Tonight's episode of Trauma Life in the ER was about Yale University Medical Center, or whatever it's called. Seemed like a pretty cool place to do residency at.

 

[kreno]

These rumors that Yale had 10% of their class fail the USMLE is ridiculous. Their match list wouldn't be so AWESOME if that was the case - point in case. *EVEN* if they *DID* have 10% fail, then it obviously doesn't matter 'cuz they *ALL* get AWESOME residencies!

 

[Sapphire1416]

columbia's match list is pretty badass as well...kids get sent to all the great programs...

 

[bez2]

To say that one should go to Yale over Columbia because of the match list or research opportunities is for lack of a better term ridiculous. Columbia has equal to or greater research opportunities and the match list at Columbia is great (7 students in Neurosurgery at top hospitals).

The main differences between these schools lie in the location and the curriculum. For me location is much more important than curriculum, and had strong influence on my decision. In terms of the people I think generalizations are very difficult to make for either school. Whether you like the student body at Yale or Columbia is something that each individual will have to decide on his/her own. The best thing to do is to re-visit each school (Columbia re-visit April 24-25) and than make a decision based on that.

 

[PrettyPlease]

My friend at Yale Med said that they do grand on the Step 1 but just so-so on Step 2. I notice everyone talks so much about Step 1, but not at all about Step 2. How do schools compare on Step 2? Or are they not as important?

 

[Habari]

unless there are any particularly compelling factors - this decision maybe really arbitrary. columbia's got a bigger class - p&s club is pretty tight - the location forces you to explore non-immediatly surrounding areas in nyc (though it is by no means a bad area). for all the talk of using ugrad facilities, it doesn't seem like people actually due; if it isn't immediately around you, and there isn't a large driving factor to do something - assume it won't be done.

yale is an amazing university system, has smaller class and a completely different feel. while columbia maybe known for thoroughness of medical education, yale leaves a different mark: one of being a life-long learner and a self-motivated person. new haven is a minimum hassle city, with open spaces and easy access to outside stuff. it has better restaurants and cultural life in the immediate vincinity than columbia [though a subway ride away...]. both match lists are obviously excellent, so one would be foolish to choose the school based on that.

demographics at each school are different with regard to temperment, socioeconomic background and diversity [though they both work hard to make a 'balanced' class - whatever that means]. yale attracts more people that enjoy the environment of new haven [which is quite possible] - and with that carries a personality signature that is different from those that are attracted to nyc. who would you like to hang out with more?

though i have chosen to attend neither school in the end, i think i kinda knew which one i would goto despite the legitamate confusion on the topic. if thats the case, you certainly don't need rationalization or vindication for your decision, they are both great schools.

 

[mirla]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I am actually waitlisted at both, so both are currently pipe dreams, but I was trying to think hypothetically about what I would do if I (gasp) got into one or the other off the waitlist. Yale students seemed really happy, but I've got to admit NY is super tempting. Having been at a school for four years with a great campus but not-so-hot surrounding location, I'm really wary of New Haven! But it sounds like I can't be too hopeful about the Columbia list since I haven't gotten a coveted second interview - just a letter thanking me for my interest - so maybe the choice will be made for me!

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by Joe Joe on da Radio
there is nothing to do in new haven. nothing.

Lots of clubs, lots of bars, lots of restaurants. I guess that's nothing. Whoever said "one bar" is definitely pulling your chain.

I guess the shopping is deficient, but they're working on it (Ann Taylor, Gap, Urban Outfitters, and JCrew essentially on campus). And if you really want the big city, New York is only a Metro North hop away.

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by PrettyPlease
I've heard Yale med grads are not very well respected in the profession.

Umm...okay... You have seen the matchlist, right?

And whoever heard that 10% failing thing, wouldn't you think that *everyone* would know if that had actually happened? It's rather difficult to keep something like that a secret. Believe 10% of what you hear and half of what you see.

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by dumbest premed
I have a friend from high school in Yale and when I visited him I got the impression that the students dress "neatly." I saw several people wearing very preppy outfits(pants, shirt, sweater, and some even wearing a tie).

When I checked out Columbia for undergrad, though, it seemed like more students were dressed in Abercrombie and American Eagle type stuff.

This is just a generalization I made...Haven't been to Columbia in over 3 years or to Yale in over 2 years.

Hmm...you must have gotten a jilted view. Or maybe you caught people on an on-campus recruiting day with the tie thing. There is one guy I can think of on all of campus that does wear a tie every single day, but he's uber-weird.

As for being preppy, well yeah, some people, but not even a majority. It's Yale! If you want extremely well dressed folk, go to Penn or something. A lot of people at Yale really dress like crap.

And the undergrad surely doesn't reflect upon the med school. Med school's totally different.

 

[rjmst]

Positively Yale. Yale is my dream school for sure . Whoever got in, please tell me the secret.

 

[nero]

Originally posted by kreno
These rumors that Yale had 10% of their class fail the USMLE is ridiculous. Their match list wouldn't be so AWESOME if that was the case - point in case. *EVEN* if they *DID* have 10% fail, then it obviously doesn't matter 'cuz they *ALL* get AWESOME residencies!

Kreno and Random Access:

This 10% failing for step I is true, but it happened about 8 or so years ago....when i went on my interview, i had dinner with a 3rd med student the nite before and he said that this was indeed true......he said that's partly why they brought the guy from columbia, to kind of redo things so that something like this doesnt happen again..........also he said that their step 1 isnt' as great as some other top schools, but that residency directors know how lax the system and know how well they are trained clincially so don't put much emphasis on the step 1 for yale kids........take it for what you will.............i figure a 3rd year knows quite a bit..............

also, at the interview, the dude who used to be at columbia, cant' remember his name, the main man....said they are going to change some things, BUT they are goign to try to keep most afternoons free adn lax....but the basic idea was that its not going to be as chill and relaxed as years past.......its obvious they aren't getting rid of the yale system, but making changes that might require more class time than usual......its nevr going to be the true yale system.........eitehr way, they have oen of the least amount of class tioems in the whole country..........cna't go wrong.......

nero

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by nero
Kreno and Random Access:

This 10% failing for step I is true, but it happened about 8 or so years ago....when i went on my interview, i had dinner with a 3rd med student the nite before and he said that this was indeed true......he said that's partly why they brought the guy from columbia, to kind of redo things so that something like this doesnt happen again..........also he said that their step 1 isnt' as great as some other top schools, but that residency directors know how lax the system and know how well they are trained clincially so don't put much emphasis on the step 1 for yale kids........take it for what you will.............i figure a 3rd year knows quite a bit..............

I'd prefer evidence rather than something anecdotal.

In any case, was it when they changed curriculum? I've heard of other schools having problems with curriculum changes (UCSF?).

 

[Neville]

From Yale Medicine, Autumn 2002 (page 34, also available online: http://www.med.yale.edu/external/pubs/ym_au02/yalesystem.html):

"The boards appear to have been the only required exams until the mid-1980s, when in a single year, 17 students failed Step 1 of the USMLE. 'That provoked a great deal of concern among the basic science faculty,' former Dean Leon E. Rosenberg, M.D., HS '63, said in a recent interview. As a result, Rosenberg said, he and Robert H. Gifford, M.D., HS '67, who was then the associate dean for student affairs, decided to implement qualifying exams in the basic science courses. The basic science faculty, he said, were as solidly behind this decision as alumni and students were opposed to it."

 

[stumyers]

To those of you who say that Yale is "less respected":

I too have heard this, but am really skeptical. Is there any actual evidence that this is the case? U.S. News gives them a really high score in the "residency director eval. score" category. While this may not be the ideal measure, I can't seem to find a better one . . .

 

[Mustafa]

Yale has a small class, it is more intimate, but nearly all med school classes are tiny anyway, and all by the end of second year are just spruced up versions of high school, socially speaking.

Here is the breadown on the 'System': the first year has exams about once a month to month and a half. You HAVE to take them; tho you can take them at home, on the cruiseship, wherever, as they are online. You're held to the honor system with no one proctoring you. The frequency of exams is probably similar to many other pass/fail schools.

The second year most closely approximates the "System" of yore. There are 2 required exams that you have to pass in this year: pharm and micro. Again, the you can take them online. The year ends first week of April, giving you 8 weeks to study for the boards.

Third year is honors/high pass/pass/fail. Unlike Columbia, there are no 'shelf' exams required at the end of each rotation, which makes the rotation a little less stressful, but the evals maybe a little more subjective. Most do well.

There is no class ranking, and AOA is awarded AFTER residency placements are awarded.

50% of the class takes a fifth year, mostly a research year. The Match is generally stellar for the class size; eg last year 5 out of 25 (IM total) matched in categorical internal medicine at Brigham.

The Columbia guy is Chase. He has done great things for the System, like shave off tons of lecture time, and put all exams/lectures etc online. But to balance this, more of the 'self assessments' became mandatory (when they were once optional) and more mandatory SAs became 'qualifiers' ie mandatory exams you have to take. The uniqueness of the second year may change at any time--ie if close to 100% do NOT take the 'self assessments' they very soon might be changed to mandatory exams, which would push Yale further into the arena of other pass-fail schools. The third year 'shelf exams may be instituted very soon, so ask people when you get a chance.

BOTTOM LINE: Increased mandatory Testing with pass requirements is the trend at Yale. Also a trend is less class time and the ability to take exams online, at your convenience.

The match is very strong, partly due to the amount of research the class does. It is a small, intimate group that on the whole is happy and has an excellent quality of life.

 

[ValleyGal]

This is one of the most innane threads that I have read in awhile. Yale and Columbia are both great schools and you are splitting hairs. They both give you a great education and they both match all kinds of good places. You visited both, so I am sure that you liked one better. Go to the one where you felt like you fit in with the people and you liked the place. If you are not happy, then med school would suck even if you are in the coolest city ever. Who really cares about how they structure class, tests, etc? You will have class and you will go if you want. You will have tests and you will study lots for them, because this is what makes you learn the stuff. Both schools have sick research in anything you could ever feel like blazing trails in.

I go to Columbia, but I will be the first to tell you that if you got a better vibe about Yale, then go there. Different people get along with others in different environments. Go with your gut.

 

[darkdude]

Originally posted by Street Philosopher
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68519

Just wondering what this has to do with Columbia or Yale?