I will be an entering DO student next year, and if I plan on pursuing an allopathic residency someday, do I have to take both the COMLEX and USMLE steps I and II?
COMLEX or USMLE
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No, you do not necessarily have to take both exams.
You will, of course, be required to take and pass the COMLEX.
There are basically two trains of thought on this.
I would suggest doing a search on SDN to bring up some of these old topics. There is plenty out there.
My feeling...if you do well on the COMLEX and have good grades from your clinical years...preclinical years as well...then you should be fine for allopathic residencies.
If you want Harvard Neurosurgery...maybe taking the USMLE would be a good idea. But then again, unless you are at the top of your class at about 4 schools in the country, spots like this will be out of the question.
Good luck.
You will, of course, be required to take and pass the COMLEX.
There are basically two trains of thought on this.
I would suggest doing a search on SDN to bring up some of these old topics. There is plenty out there.
My feeling...if you do well on the COMLEX and have good grades from your clinical years...preclinical years as well...then you should be fine for allopathic residencies.
If you want Harvard Neurosurgery...maybe taking the USMLE would be a good idea. But then again, unless you are at the top of your class at about 4 schools in the country, spots like this will be out of the question.
Good luck.
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I disagree with JP. As a fourth year student, I am interviewing at different places in California, Arizona, and Nevada for internal medicine. I have found out through interviews that IM Allopathic Residency programs don't care about COMLEX scores. All they look at are USMLE scores. I know that some of my classmates were denied an interview because they did not take the USMLE. The Allopathic residency programs do not understand the meaning of the COMLEX scores and can not compare it to an USMLE score. My advice is to take the USMLE Step 1. In addition, some programs are also looking at USMLE Step 2 scores.
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Another train of thought...anyone who wants you as a D.O., BUT wants you to take the USMLE, doesn't want you. It is a testament to a desire to change your philosophy, and ensure that you can fit in with their philosophy. Unfortunately, the big time residencies will probably want you to take the USMLE, so you have to weigh the considerations. The good news is that the USMLE is probably easier 
Patrick
OSU-COM
Patrick
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I disagree as well as agree with the above statements.
I am a 4th yr DO student, applying for MD EM residencies (relatively competitive). I took only COMLEX, and did very well. I have gotten around 20 interviews (which equals out to about as many as competitive MD candidates are getting)... I have about a 50% interview rate with my ERAS application.
I know a DO student at another DO program who is top of her class, scored even better than I did on COMLEX, and scored just as good on the USMLE. She has a higher interview % (I would say closer to 80%).
The point is. You don't have to take the USMLE. Like JPHazelton said, if you want to go to Harvard Neurosurg... first of all, good luck (i would say that if you were an MD student). But if you are happy going to an average Univ program, or anything less than that (Univ-affiliated, community), don't sweat it. Just take the COMLEX and save yourself some cash (and stress).
Q
I am a 4th yr DO student, applying for MD EM residencies (relatively competitive). I took only COMLEX, and did very well. I have gotten around 20 interviews (which equals out to about as many as competitive MD candidates are getting)... I have about a 50% interview rate with my ERAS application.
I know a DO student at another DO program who is top of her class, scored even better than I did on COMLEX, and scored just as good on the USMLE. She has a higher interview % (I would say closer to 80%).
The point is. You don't have to take the USMLE. Like JPHazelton said, if you want to go to Harvard Neurosurg... first of all, good luck (i would say that if you were an MD student). But if you are happy going to an average Univ program, or anything less than that (Univ-affiliated, community), don't sweat it. Just take the COMLEX and save yourself some cash (and stress).
Q
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I would take both! It can't hurt unless you don't pass the USMLE, but the odds of that are slim to none. I know a person that failed the COMLEX three times and took the USMLE and scored in the top 30%. Also, at the school I'm getting ready to attend everyone that has taken the USMLE passed with flying colors. So, why not take the USMLE? It helps to open up more doors with residency programs. Just remember to not forget the DO principles if you go to an allopathic program (I've seen this happen to many times)!
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I would think that they want to see how you compare to most of the other applicants they receive. Most likely the MD residency will have predominantly MD applicants. They will want to see how you stack up against them. They don't want to compare apples and oranges. How hard the comlex is compared to usmle is debatable and for that fact, i would guess, they would prefer that you be compared in a more direct way-- by the same universal test all other applicants have taken.
As other people have said, you can get by without taking both, many have and many will. And i would venture to say that you could still place in a very good residency without taking both, but if taking both will open doors for you in the future, why not take it?
As for the philosophy thing, look at it as a way to expand and share your philosophy with all those that you work with (md and do)
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First, it will help to call the programs directly and ask them. Don't talk to the secretary or the "coordinator" but go straight to the big cahuna and say, "Hi, I'm a D.O. student interested in applying to your residency program. As you know, osteopathic students are required to pass the osteopathic licensing exam---called the COMLEX---given by the NBOME, but also have the option of taking the USMLE too. Although it is an added expense and time commitment, I'd like to know if your program prefers that osteopathic students have both USMLE and COMLEX scores or will just the COMLEX suffice?" Some will say both others will say just the COMLEX is fine.
Since there is so much regional variability as to which programs are familiar with the COMLEX and which are not, my advice is to bite the bullet and take both Steps 1 and 2 of the USMLE during medical school. They mirror the COMLEX closely and since you're preparing for one set, it won't hurt to take the other. No one will care about which step 3 you take and taking step 3 of the USMLE is beyond redundant if you're a D.O. as the COMLEX is accepted in all 50 states now.
Bottom line: It will help at certain ACGME programs to have USMLE scores, not because program directors are biased or anti-D.O. or anything like that, but just because of certain bureaucratic paper-pushing issues. Maybe 15 years from now the process will be more "bilingual" when it comes to USMLE and COMLEX scores. Until then it pays to have both. Relatedly, by taking both you can imagine that you're doing those behind you a favor. As programs become more familiar with the COMLEX and are able to directly compare USMLE and COMLEX scores within individual applicants, they will be able to generalize to future applicants who only have COMLEX scores. If that doesn't make you feel warm and fuzzy about the whole process, nothing will.
Since there is so much regional variability as to which programs are familiar with the COMLEX and which are not, my advice is to bite the bullet and take both Steps 1 and 2 of the USMLE during medical school. They mirror the COMLEX closely and since you're preparing for one set, it won't hurt to take the other. No one will care about which step 3 you take and taking step 3 of the USMLE is beyond redundant if you're a D.O. as the COMLEX is accepted in all 50 states now.
Bottom line: It will help at certain ACGME programs to have USMLE scores, not because program directors are biased or anti-D.O. or anything like that, but just because of certain bureaucratic paper-pushing issues. Maybe 15 years from now the process will be more "bilingual" when it comes to USMLE and COMLEX scores. Until then it pays to have both. Relatedly, by taking both you can imagine that you're doing those behind you a favor. As programs become more familiar with the COMLEX and are able to directly compare USMLE and COMLEX scores within individual applicants, they will be able to generalize to future applicants who only have COMLEX scores. If that doesn't make you feel warm and fuzzy about the whole process, nothing will.
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Don't forget about the extra $$$$$$$$ now that DO and MD will have to take 2 parts to Step 2 (written and practical)....about $1500 for one "set" before travel/lodging/food/time....
That made my mind up....well, that and all the phone calls I put in to current Residents and PD's of the programs I'm interested in. All told (10 allo programs in the PA and NY areas) all told me not to bother with the USMLE as a DO. They are more interested in LOR's and "personality" in the interview......as more than one PD put it, "I want to see if I think I can deal with you without any problems for the next 3 years of my life."
Well put, I thought.
Kat
That made my mind up....well, that and all the phone calls I put in to current Residents and PD's of the programs I'm interested in. All told (10 allo programs in the PA and NY areas) all told me not to bother with the USMLE as a DO. They are more interested in LOR's and "personality" in the interview......as more than one PD put it, "I want to see if I think I can deal with you without any problems for the next 3 years of my life."
Well put, I thought.
Kat
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I personally took both. I am interested in anesthesiology and some programs accept only the USMLE but most will accept both. I have heard that certain fellowships require USMLE scores and certain residency programs do also (depends on what you want to do). I think you will have already studied for the COMLEX it is just a little extra money to take the USMLE. Then you won't have to worry, that in the future you may wish you had taken both. Just my two cents!
Nichole Taylor MS3
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Nichole Taylor MS3
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Originally posted by patrickhenson
The good news is that the USMLE is probably easier
Patrick
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What kind of crack are you smoking ?
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In some ways it was easier. The questions seemed better written and the exam on the whole was more polished. I also liked the computer format better. At times the COMLEX just felt like a huge amalgamation of MC questions submitted by profs at different osteopathic medical schools---which is what it is! Both exams cover nearly exactly the same content although it always seems like there is more vaginal bleeding on the COMLEX. I don't know what it is about DO's and the differential diagnosis and treatment of vaginal bleeding but some reason it seems to be very important in the osteopathic world.
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I would have to agree with drusso. Although I havne't taken the USMLE (so you could probably completely ignore this post), I just took Step II (COMLEX). Can we just say that was one of the crappiest written tests ever. I say that the USMLE is probably better written because I took all of the practice tests imaginable (NMS, Kaplan Q-bank, etc), and from what I hear, those questions usually mimic the USMLE (slight variations, but supposedly are pretty similar). Ok, so those questions are well written adn give you the information you need.
Very unlike the COMLEX. It is such a poorly written test!
Question 47. A patient comes to you complaining of abdominal pain. What is the diagnosis:
Appendicitis, perforated gastric ulcer, ischemic colitis, massive GI bleed, or DKA?
That's what it felt like. NO informatino whatsoever given on the question, and all the answers could have fit. Of course I'm exagerrating a tad but that's waht it felt like.
COMLEX
Q
Very unlike the COMLEX. It is such a poorly written test!
Question 47. A patient comes to you complaining of abdominal pain. What is the diagnosis:
Appendicitis, perforated gastric ulcer, ischemic colitis, massive GI bleed, or DKA?
That's what it felt like. NO informatino whatsoever given on the question, and all the answers could have fit. Of course I'm exagerrating a tad but that's waht it felt like.
COMLEX
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I took COMLEX Level 1 and Level 2, as well as USMLE Step I and II.
The above comments about the quality of the COMLEX are completely accurate. It is possibly one of the most poorly written and administered standardized test I've ever taken (and I've taken a lot
) For both Level 1 and Level 2, I left thinking "They had a year to make this exam and this was the best they could come up with?"
Comparatively, the USMLE is a well written exam with straightforward questions. I also liked the computer-based format.
But the USMLE was still hard as he11, and I definitely disagree with the above posters who think it's an "easier" exam; having taken both, I can say that I felt USMLE I and II were harder.
The above comments about the quality of the COMLEX are completely accurate. It is possibly one of the most poorly written and administered standardized test I've ever taken (and I've taken a lot
) For both Level 1 and Level 2, I left thinking "They had a year to make this exam and this was the best they could come up with?"Comparatively, the USMLE is a well written exam with straightforward questions. I also liked the computer-based format.
But the USMLE was still hard as he11, and I definitely disagree with the above posters who think it's an "easier" exam; having taken both, I can say that I felt USMLE I and II were harder.
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if you are headed to an allopathic residency, take the USMLE. does it make sense to work hard for 4 years only to let the absence of one exam score keep you from getting interviews or acceptances? as far as patrick's (OSU-COM) comment on having the programs change your philosophy...it's a load of crap.
you'll notice that the DO's who did not take the USMLE probably did not receive the same number of interview invites as those who did...especially in california where it's really tough to break into.
i've already noticed that i probably would have recieved a few more invites if I were an MD instead of a DO. at least that's the perception i got when i discussed it with several other people on the interview trail (stats, experiences being very similar, etc...). luckily i got enough interviews to keep me safe, but it sure would have been nice to get some more from great programs.
you'll notice that the DO's who did not take the USMLE probably did not receive the same number of interview invites as those who did...especially in california where it's really tough to break into.
i've already noticed that i probably would have recieved a few more invites if I were an MD instead of a DO. at least that's the perception i got when i discussed it with several other people on the interview trail (stats, experiences being very similar, etc...). luckily i got enough interviews to keep me safe, but it sure would have been nice to get some more from great programs.
