commanding respect as a newly minted dentist?

[siccles]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I am a female, just started my first job at a clinic that has a 100% female staff. Two providers are male. To add, I’ve been told I look young and always get asked my age by patients among others.

The most difficult part of the job thus far has been dealing with the dental assistants. Mine in particular have an inbuilt disrespect towards me. One in particular strikes me as insecure, and if I poke at that insecurity by correcting her, she will talk about me to the whole office. She’s attempted to sabotage my other relationships in the office. I have no beef with her and keep it professional. But there are others I am more fond of, and she will spread lies if she sees those bonds developing. The Manipulative type.

Both of my assistants question everything I do, and love to hop on/exaggerate any of the standard clinical snafus, if there are any. For example a patient came in as an ER complaining that a filling that I did “fell out”. The exam revealed the filling was still there. The reaction of the DAs before the exam shocked me - I could see them whispering and rolling eyes / passing judgement at me.

So far in my 6 months practicing, I’ve had only one patient complaint. She was post partum and hormonal and required more anesthetic than what she allowed me to administer to her. My DA saw the entire thing transpire and could easily attest to the fact that I followed correct protocol and did what I should have - if she wanted to. But when it came to defending me or having my back, she wasn’t there.
She was not on my team and instead spread stuff about me to the entire floor.

To me, this stems from the disrespect.
The older men dentists don’t get this treatment.

I don’t think it’s a tall requirement to expect to be a team with the DAs and not be working against an inherent bias.

I just wanted to know if there are any new dentists who feel this way? Particularly any who deal w female on female issues?

What can be done to tackle it? I’ve tried killing them with kindness, complimenting them and placating the insecurities, talking openly about my own struggles and “humanizing” myself. Not having much success here.

 

[deleted480308]

You must always consider the possibility that they don’t like you because you are actually less likeable than the others and it’s not sexist/ageist

In addition you must consider that this is somewhat in your head and they like you just fine as a person and you are too sensitive

Once you get past those possibilities, you really should have the ability to select your primary assistants and if you are willing to deal with the hassle of finding a replacement should be allowed to fire them.

 

[Saddleshoes]

WHO CARES WITHER THE STAFF LIKES YOU?
Your job is to take good care of the patients not the staff.


BTW That is coming from an old male dentist with military experience.

 

[2TH MVR]

You have to EARN their respect through time and positive experiences. Doesn't matter what age you are. I entered a Corp setting at the age of 55. The patients and staff did not know me and quite frankly did not respect the experience I was bringing to the place. The 1st 6 months was hell. Patients treating me like crap. Patients wanting to transfer to other locations. DAs also testing my leadership abilities and how far I would let them try to get their own way.

After 6 months. Through my actions and personality .... I EARNED the patients and the staff's respect.

Also as a prior poster mentioned .... it depends on your employment situation. If you are an Associate .... good luck. Staff will always treat the senior/owner Dr. who pays their paychecks with more respect. You are just an employee .... just like the staff. If you work in a Corp ..... well .... I work WITH the staff as a co-worker. But I do call the shots when it revolves around patient care. I remind my staff all the time that I am just like them .... a fellow co-worker.

Bottom line. You have to earn respect. Same applies to private practice. I've had staff (mostly back office DAs) that did not respect my wishes. I did my best to retrain their attitudes, but sometimes ... you gotta pull the plug and let the staff member go.

As for the female-female work relationships. Can't help you. My DAs are two young men 23 and 24 and two young women. No drama. We keep it pretty light. We enjoy each other's company. But then again .... I earned it through my past actions.

 

[321931]

Very normal as a new dentist.

1) Associates are bottom of the totem pole in 99% associateships unless you can pull in serious production numbers. Owner Dentist> Office Manager> Dental Hygienists> Front Office> Dental Assistants > Janitor > Associates. You are replaceable and most likely if you work in a dental mill- the entire staff is used to turnover from associates. We have all seen it, associate hops on board for 6 months, quits 6 months later. So just from that preconcieved notion- it's implied that you will probably quit in a few months.

2) It's much harder to find a competant office manager, harder to replace a dental hygienist because they have a following of patients, harder to find competant front who don't screw up, harder to find dental assistants that carry their weight and don't drive you nuts. It's not hard to replace a new grad associate when there are bunch of new grads begging for jobs. As an owner dentist- if there was conflict between the staff and associate- I would always choose my staff first. You have no idea how hard it is to find decent front/office manager/ assistants. Associates are dime a dozen. If I put an ad out for associate- I will get dozens of responses. If I put a dental hygienist ad out, I might get one or two bites.

3) It's not a male/female thing. I got the same things when I was a young male associate. In one associateship- I had an assistant purposely call be my first name in the office setting- not in front of patients. No Dr. Rainee- just Rainee. I could make a big stink about it, but whatever, I knew my place in an associateship.

4) Those that sign the paycheck command all the power- owner

5) Don't take it personal. Most associateships and owners know that the job is just a gig to fill in prior to ownership. If you have no desire for ownership and or you have made your money elsewhere and treating this as a 8-5 whatever job...then whatever. Just don't take it personal- clock in and out and take your paycheck.

6) Lastly- just because you have DDS behind your name doesn't mean you deserve respect. Respect is earned.

Best of luck. My advice- run- don't walk- to ownership.

 

[ysrebob]

I don’t know why, but intrastaff drama is ENDEMIC in dental offices. Seen it so many times and in so many ways. Often dental offices are worse than Jr High. Whole other subject.

Your particular problems, though, should get better with time and as your confidence grows... in another year you won’t care what assistants think because you’ll KNOW your skills are strong. Hard to feel so sure of yourself in the first few months out of D school, a place where your work is always and rightly open to criticism. It would be nice if you could have assistants with more helpful attitudes, but you may not have much leverage to alter that right now. Be patient, keep learning and growing your skills and confidence, and do maintain a healthy life outside the office. It’s just a job. Time will make it better.

 

[321931]

I don’t know why, but intrastaff drama is ENDEMIC in dental offices. Seen it so many times and in so many ways. Often dental offices are worse than Jr High. Whole other subject.

Your particular problems, though, should get better with time and as your confidence grows... in another year you won’t care what assistants think because you’ll KNOW your skills are strong. Hard to feel so sure of yourself in the first few months out of D school, a place where your work is always and rightly open to criticism. It would be nice if you could have assistants with more helpful attitudes, but you may not have much leverage to alter that right now. Be patient, keep learning and growing your skills and confidence, and do maintain a healthy life outside the office. It’s just a job. Time will make it better.

It's because a dental office is technically a family.

Hygienist A- 5 years
Hygienist B- 10 years
Office Manager- 15 years
Assistant- 6 Years

Me- 2 Years
Previous Owner- 20 years

We see each other day in and day out. We know the personal ins-and- outs of each others family. We work in a space of 1500 Square Feet which is smaller then most single unit apartments.

Now when dental offices open their doors to an associate- it takes time for the family to accept the new member. HOWEVER, because associates tend to leave after getting their experience in and or buy a practice, and or use it as a stepping stone to get a better job- the family becomes jaded seeing associates get hired. So the family tends to get clicky and distrusts associates.

It's just a fact that most associates tend to leave after 6-12 months for greener fields. I worked 6 jobs prior to ownership. My other 2014 grads had similar experiences- 2-4 jobs before ownership. I always like to visit my previous associateship websites and I always see updated "new associates." Constant turnover every 6-12 months...but you know what is constant? The FAMILY of hygienist A,B office manager, and assistant.

Edit: Just visited my previous 2 associateships websites that I left 2 years ago. 1 had 4 dentists, The other had 3 dentists. All of them have new dentists. Only the owner and staff are the same.

 

[Blueshirts]

OP, I have seen similar banter in other office settings, this isn't necessarily unique to your job/office, and happens pretty frequently in lots of jobs for various reasons, where employees try to buck any type of authority or new individual. The only thing you can do is to not personally get involved, and at best carefully identify the underlying issue each individual faces with the work place, via observing what they say over time, which can maybe lead to some type of remedy. Sometimes situations like this develop as a result of someone's issues outside of the work place and are brought into work, sometimes it's due to a past history with the work place, or even because the person has been introduced to change in pace/flow of their routine due to a new employees introduction. Goodluck and don't take it personally or bring it home with you if you can help it, sometimes people act like jerks.

 

[Strag]

Hey chiming in,

I’m in a similar situation as you. It’s normal unfortunately, especially in offices with high associate turnover and I’ve worked in a few offices. Control what you can control, if it seems like a toxic environment, you feel like you’re not learning or it’s not working out financially I suggest you find another associateship. Dentistry is already stressful in of itself. You will encounter some form of these associate-related problems in any office unless you’re a partner; however, there are offices that treat their associates better than others. Good luck

 

[HOPAone]

I am a female, just started my first job at a clinic that has a 100% female staff. Two providers are male. To add, I’ve been told I look young and always get asked my age by patients among others.

The most difficult part of the job thus far has been dealing with the dental assistants. Mine in particular have an inbuilt disrespect towards me. One in particular strikes me as insecure, and if I poke at that insecurity by correcting her, she will talk about me to the whole office. She’s attempted to sabotage my other relationships in the office. I have no beef with her and keep it professional. But there are others I am more fond of, and she will spread lies if she sees those bonds developing. The Manipulative type.

Both of my assistants question everything I do, and love to hop on/exaggerate any of the standard clinical snafus, if there are any. For example a patient came in as an ER complaining that a filling that I did “fell out”. The exam revealed the filling was still there. The reaction of the DAs before the exam shocked me - I could see them whispering and rolling eyes / passing judgement at me.

So far in my 6 months practicing, I’ve had only one patient complaint. She was post partum and hormonal and required more anesthetic than what she allowed me to administer to her. My DA saw the entire thing transpire and could easily attest to the fact that I followed correct protocol and did what I should have - if she wanted to. But when it came to defending me or having my back, she wasn’t there.
She was not on my team and instead spread stuff about me to the entire floor.

To me, this stems from the disrespect.
The older men dentists don’t get this treatment.

I don’t think it’s a tall requirement to expect to be a team with the DAs and not be working against an inherent bias.

I just wanted to know if there are any new dentists who feel this way? Particularly any who deal w female on female issues?

What can be done to tackle it? I’ve tried killing them with kindness, complimenting them and placating the insecurities, talking openly about my own struggles and “humanizing” myself. Not having much success here.

Treat them with respect first. Listen to them as coworkers. Ask for opinions since you’re new. It doesn’t hurt to take them out for lunch once a while. Don’t sweat the small stuffs, don’t look at them as enemies. See them as potential friends. The question is “are you secure enough to do that?”

 

[charlestweed]

Treat them with respect first. Listen to them as coworkers. Ask for opinions since you’re new. It doesn’t hurt to take them out for lunch once a while. Don’t swear the small stuffs, don’t look at them as enemies. See them as potential friends. The question is “are you secure enough to do that?”

Yes. Treat others the same way you want others to treat you. When you want them to do things for you, ask them nicely and thank them as often as possible. When they like you and respect you, they will do more things for you....better clinic flow....friendlier working environment.....fewer patient complaints....and your staff and you go home on time.

Work as a part of a team. Help each other. When the assistants are busy and you have nothing to do, you can help them do things like cleaning the chairs, sterilizing instruments etc. If you can do all these, I think you will be a better boss, when you are ready to set up your own office in the future.

 

[emergentmd]

Women Eat their Own. Its the strangest phenomenon but I see this all the time. You rarely see males having this but for some reason when a new female comes in, they get the cold shoulder from the female staff/peers.

My wife is a nurse and we both see this all the time.

New young female comes in, females for some reason feels threatened and get treated like an outsider until they "become one of them" which some never get to if they don't play the game - whatever that is.

New young guy comes in, the females treat them well and helpful.

Just a weird phenomenon but I am sure its b/c they feel threatened

 

[TanMan]

I am a female, just started my first job at a clinic that has a 100% female staff. Two providers are male. To add, I’ve been told I look young and always get asked my age by patients among others.

The most difficult part of the job thus far has been dealing with the dental assistants. Mine in particular have an inbuilt disrespect towards me. One in particular strikes me as insecure, and if I poke at that insecurity by correcting her, she will talk about me to the whole office. She’s attempted to sabotage my other relationships in the office. I have no beef with her and keep it professional. But there are others I am more fond of, and she will spread lies if she sees those bonds developing. The Manipulative type.

Both of my assistants question everything I do, and love to hop on/exaggerate any of the standard clinical snafus, if there are any. For example a patient came in as an ER complaining that a filling that I did “fell out”. The exam revealed the filling was still there. The reaction of the DAs before the exam shocked me - I could see them whispering and rolling eyes / passing judgement at me.

So far in my 6 months practicing, I’ve had only one patient complaint. She was post partum and hormonal and required more anesthetic than what she allowed me to administer to her. My DA saw the entire thing transpire and could easily attest to the fact that I followed correct protocol and did what I should have - if she wanted to. But when it came to defending me or having my back, she wasn’t there.
She was not on my team and instead spread stuff about me to the entire floor.

To me, this stems from the disrespect.
The older men dentists don’t get this treatment.

I don’t think it’s a tall requirement to expect to be a team with the DAs and not be working against an inherent bias.

I just wanted to know if there are any new dentists who feel this way? Particularly any who deal w female on female issues?

What can be done to tackle it? I’ve tried killing them with kindness, complimenting them and placating the insecurities, talking openly about my own struggles and “humanizing” myself. Not having much success here.

I think you care too much what others think and you're assuming that they care about clinical care as much as you do. Your last sentence... you're trying too hard. If you're fake about it, they can see right through that. I get the sense that you care too much, assume too much, and you think that respect is automatic to Dr's. There is something among similar-genders and drama, but as the owner, I tell them that I don't care if they kill each other OUTSIDE my office, but keep it outside and if I have to intervene, one or both parties will get fired. This strict rule has kept me from dealing with any stupid drama. I still hear about it through my OM, but at least I don't have to deal with it directly.

How do you command respect? One, take a hardline stance. When it's time to play, it's time to play. When it's time to work, all of you better keep up with me/you. When I was an associate, during downtimes, lunch, and gatherings, I put myself to the level of the DA/DH. I'm not a doctor, but a friend and a peer. When you are able to "stoop down" from the pedestal of being a "Dr.", I think you will find that you can command more respect of your staff. The endgoal of offices is to make money and when you have proven that you can outperform your peers, then you will have more say in the office.

You still have to prove yourself. Being a Dr. doesn't make you anything in the office hierarchy. You may not realize it, but if you're slow, inefficient, making DA's do additional work or making them stay late, they absolutely hate that.... or if you think you're hot stuff and your work is failing, then they'll use that to strike down your ego.

Sorry to seem mean, but your post just doesn't sit well with me. It reeks of entitlement, blame and assumptions (I'm probably assuming here too, but this is my take on your post)

 

[Splenda88]

You must always consider the possibility that they don’t like you because you are actually less likeable than the others and it’s not sexist/ageist

In addition you must consider that this is somewhat in your head and they like you just fine as a person and you are too sensitive

Once you get past those possibilities, you really should have the ability to select your primary assistants and if you are willing to deal with the hassle of finding a replacement should be allowed to fire them.

Your first two statements might be true, but in my few years working in healthcare, I can attest that it seems hard for other females that are in "subordinate" positions to work with young successful females. Not sure why is that.

 

[321931]

You still have to prove yourself. Being a Dr. doesn't make you anything in the office hierarchy. You may not realize it, but if you're slow, inefficient, making DA's do additional work or making them stay late, they absolutely hate that.... or if you think you're hot stuff and your work is failing, then they'll use that to strike down your ego.

Considering the poster is a new grad...I can just imagine the pain the DA's have to go through. I'm sorry, we were all new once.

When I started out- all the assistants were annoyed and or avoided the new grads. Why?

1) Crown preps took forever...2 hours... Bloody prep, annoyed patient, clearance sucked, thin temporary.
2) Class 2's took forever, 1 hour....fumbling with tofflemire, under adjust, etc.
3) Extractions took forever, 1 hour...digging digging digging for tips, not using the surgical burr quicker etc.
4) Getting patients numb took forever cuz of missing the areas.

Today.
1) I cut a crown in 5 minutes, take impression, done. 30-45 min for easy prep
2) Class 2 takes 10-15 min.
3) Extractions can take a while- but at least I know what I'm doing and it gets out eventually.
4) Always get patients numb well.

Whats the point?

The point is that most likely you aren't very good, and these assistants have been doing this for YEARS. They probably can do your job better then you right now. They don't want to sit for 2 hours for a crown prep, or a class 2, or sit and watch you fumble on an extraction for an hour, or miss your IA's over and over again. When the new grad got on board in my 4 doctor practice, all the assistants avoided said person because they knew it would take a while to do things.

It's normal man. It's nothing against you or anything but well, it's just growing pains of a new grad.

 

[deleted480308]

Your first two statements might be true, but in my few years working in healthcare, I can attest that it seems hard for other females that are in "subordinate" positions to work with young successful females. Not sure why is that.

I’d like to propose that maybe you seeing yourself as succesful and them as clearly not (using your own words here) comes across in how you treat them.

 

[Splenda88]

I’d like to propose that maybe you seeing yourself as succesful and them as clearly not (using your own words here) comes across in how you treat them.

I used the word 'success' as being higher up in the hierarchy ladder... By the way, I am a male, so I am not dealing with that kind of issue as a PGY1 (IM).

 

[GoDental101]

I used the word 'success' as being higher up in the hierarchy ladder... By the way, I am a male, so I am not dealing with that kind of issue as a PGY1 (IM).

The issue clearly isn’t just among females. Your response demonstrates that perfectly.

 

[ZestyToothpaste]

I am a female, just started my first job at a clinic that has a 100% female staff. Two providers are male. To add, I’ve been told I look young and always get asked my age by patients among others.

The most difficult part of the job thus far has been dealing with the dental assistants. Mine in particular have an inbuilt disrespect towards me. One in particular strikes me as insecure, and if I poke at that insecurity by correcting her, she will talk about me to the whole office. She’s attempted to sabotage my other relationships in the office. I have no beef with her and keep it professional. But there are others I am more fond of, and she will spread lies if she sees those bonds developing. The Manipulative type.

Both of my assistants question everything I do, and love to hop on/exaggerate any of the standard clinical snafus, if there are any. For example a patient came in as an ER complaining that a filling that I did “fell out”. The exam revealed the filling was still there. The reaction of the DAs before the exam shocked me - I could see them whispering and rolling eyes / passing judgement at me.

So far in my 6 months practicing, I’ve had only one patient complaint. She was post partum and hormonal and required more anesthetic than what she allowed me to administer to her. My DA saw the entire thing transpire and could easily attest to the fact that I followed correct protocol and did what I should have - if she wanted to. But when it came to defending me or having my back, she wasn’t there.
She was not on my team and instead spread stuff about me to the entire floor.

To me, this stems from the disrespect.
The older men dentists don’t get this treatment.

I don’t think it’s a tall requirement to expect to be a team with the DAs and not be working against an inherent bias.

I just wanted to know if there are any new dentists who feel this way? Particularly any who deal w female on female issues?

What can be done to tackle it? I’ve tried killing them with kindness, complimenting them and placating the insecurities, talking openly about my own struggles and “humanizing” myself. Not having much success here.

I'm sorry you're going through such an experience and I'm appalled at the replies. I really hope you ignored most of the "advice" which was shared. Unfortunately the behavior your staff is exhibiting is prevalent but it's by no means normal and it's incorrect for people to accept it as the status quo.

FIrst off, you are 100% right to care if your staff respects/likes/believes in/trusts you because patients will follow suit and they will respect/like/believe in/trust you. It's vital for your professional improvement/development to have staff who are happy to be on your team, not work against you.

You did nothing to lose their respect so why should you have to do something to earn it? You went through rigorous training to gain a doctorate and the staff work under your license. That alone is enough to expect respect from them and not be judged or questioned in a challenging way. And let's not forget, you take all the liability for being a doctor. Again, another reason to expect respect. Perhaps your skills and speed are lacking as a new dentist, but in no way does that mean you deserve to be disrespected and spoken bad about. Gaining speed will not miraculously make them respect you either.

It may sound harsh but you simply cannot prove your competence to the staff. There is a huge educational difference between the doctor and the staff and that's just the plain truth. The staff knows one or two ways to do something because they learn everything from watching the one or two doctors they've worked with. But dentists know, there are hundreds if not thousands of ways to prep a tooth/take an impression/fabricate a denture/etc and each way can give a successful outcome. Most staff do not understand this and the ones that do have had the opportunity to work with multiple dentists, which is rare.

It sounds like you're in a toxic work environment and there's no way to fix that. My advice would be to find another job. When you're interviewing, ask a lot of questions with the owner and any other dentist at the practice about the interaction of the staff amongst themselves and with the doctor(s). While you're interviewing, you can ask to speak with the staff directly to gauge the culture of the practice.

I hope things improve for you. Good luck.

 

[Orthofanathgnic]

Aren't assistants paid hourly? Why should they care how long someone takes with a procedure if they're clocking out with their paychecks at the end of the day anyways? If they are really annoyed about how slow or what method of treatment an associate is using, then they should go to dental school and get a degree if they think they can do it better.

If I were you I would put those assistants in their place. It sounds like you need to find a new job anyways - when you exit you should let the owner know that he's going to keep losing associates if he doesn't get his scut workers in line. I'm sure associate turnover is annoying for owners as it is for the assistants. Treat associates better = associates stay longer. The onus is on them.

Just my opinion. I'm also still in dental school so I have no clue how rough it is out there.

 

[2TH MVR]

I'm sorry you're going through such an experience and I'm appalled at the replies. I really hope you ignored most of the "advice" which was shared.

So let me see if I understand your statement.
Your advice is to ignore most of the "advice" offered here.
The "pertinent" advice comes from dentists who have practiced a number of years. My self .... 26 yrs. Most of these dentists are very successful in their careers. Most of us have been through associateships, partnerships, private practice ownership and Corp employment. Most of us seasoned dentists have opened up numerous private practices. I've dealt with staff at every level.

Yes ... the OP has earned her DDS/DMD. But in the real world .... the dynamics of Dr.-Staff is complicated.
If the OP is the practice owner .... then the "my way or the highway" is an option, but you'll be experiencing a revolving door of employees .... which is BAD for business. Patients identify with staff sometimes more than the dentist. You're supposed to be a happy TEAM. Patients like to see the same staff as it shows stability in a practice.
If OP is an Associate or a Corp employee .... the Dr. - Staff dynamics are again different. You do not pay their paychecks. Yes ... they are supposed to treat you appropriately, but to them .... you are just another employee. In this situation ... you need to be patient.

You'll soon learn that the dentistry becomes the easy part. The hard part is relating to your patients and staff. Think of it this way. Technically you will be spending 8-9 hours a day with staff. You should probably learn how to co-exist with staff in order to be happy and productive.

 

[Saddleshoes]

You'll soon learn that the dentistry becomes the easy part. The hard part is relating to your patients and staff. Think of it this way. Technically you will be spending 8-9 hours a day with staff. You should probably learn how to co-exist with staff in order to be happy and productive.

I would like to nominate this for the DSN Dental Quote of the Week.

 

[ZestyToothpaste]

So let me see if I understand your statement.
Your advice is to ignore most of the "advice" offered here.
The "pertinent" advice comes from dentists who have practiced a number of years. My self .... 26 yrs. Most of these dentists are very successful in their careers. Most of us have been through associateships, partnerships, private practice ownership and Corp employment. Most of us seasoned dentists have opened up numerous private practices. I've dealt with staff at every level.

Yes ... the OP has earned her DDS/DMD. But in the real world .... the dynamics of Dr.-Staff is complicated.
If the OP is the practice owner .... then the "my way or the highway" is an option, but you'll be experiencing a revolving door of employees .... which is BAD for business. Patients identify with staff sometimes more than the dentist. You're supposed to be a happy TEAM. Patients like to see the same staff as it shows stability in a practice.
If OP is an Associate or a Corp employee .... the Dr. - Staff dynamics are again different. You do not pay their paychecks. Yes ... they are supposed to treat you appropriately, but to them .... you are just another employee. In this situation ... you need to be patient.

You'll soon learn that the dentistry becomes the easy part. The hard part is relating to your patients and staff. Think of it this way. Technically you will be spending 8-9 hours a day with staff. You should probably learn how to co-exist with staff in order to be happy and productive.

Most of the "advice" falls into one of these categories: you're to sensitive, you're too slow, this is normal. These are all direct/indirect ways of blaming the OP. There's no advice in them.

Not sure if you're a female (which is who the OP was asking advice from), but most female seasoned dentists have overcome several amounts of hardship. Their stories are disturbing and if you are a female dentist who has been practicing for 26 years then I feel for your hardship too, but suffering aka "being patient" in this situation is plain wrong.

1. Studies have been done about disrespect in the healthcare field and it shows the recipient of the disrespect will feel uncertainty, self-doubt, depression, as well as physical ailments like fatigue and hypertension. The impact of disrespect in the workplace is larger than we're willing to acknowledge and it even extends to the patient, causing compromise in patient care.

2. Being an associate is like being in a relationship. She's investing in her staff/boss. She needs her staff/boss to invest back in her. She's even tried multiple techniques in an attempt to improve her relationship with the staff but they're not responding to her. Instead, her staff have tried to sabotage her and put her down. The OP cannot be her own advocate, who ever is in authority needs to step up and enforce a zero tolerance for disrespect. Unfortunately, it's been 6 months and it doesn't sound like anyone has come to her aid.

In your previous post you mentioned things improved for you after 6 months. The OP has been at this job for 6 months. How long do you think she should "be patient" for? Another 6 months? Another year or two? Longer?

I understand years ago the opportunities were limited for female dentists. Thanks to those trailblazers, new female dentists do not have to suffer in the same way. There are no shortage of jobs in dentistry, why should she willfully stay in a negative, toxic work environment?

 

[yappy]

Aren't assistants paid hourly? Why should they care how long someone takes with a procedure if they're clocking out with their paychecks at the end of the day anyways? If they are really annoyed about how slow or what method of treatment an associate is using, then they should go to dental school and get a degree if they think they can do it better.

The reason they care is because they're lazy. They would rather be on their phones in the break room than assisting longer than they feel is needed.

As a dentist you will deal with all kinds of people. In a perfect world everyone would be hard working, ethical, kind, and understanding. However, we do not live in an ideal world. Therefore, as a dentist you need to develop skills to deal with all kinds of people. When I was starting out I struggled with this because I was an easy-going-person who just wanted to get along. Today I will be very direct and assertive if necessary. The difference between me then and now is I realized not everyone wants, or needs, the same treatment to get the same outcome.

OP, looking for a better job might be the answer but learning to be stern, direct, and assertive in the face of unprofessional behavior is very important. If you feel that you've given good faith efforts to resolve the issues you described with no favorable outcome it may be time to change your behavior. The best part is you get to learn this on your bosses dime and if you mess it up you're moving on anyways. Try becoming more assertive and pointing out unprofessional behavior when it happens. Do not let it go and do not give them a way out when/if you confront them. If this does not come natural to you, or you're afraid of confrontation, you should get a good book on assertiveness training first.

 

[pubhealthdent]

I'm one year out of school working I now an FQHC with 2 male providers and the rest of the staff (including me) are female. When I started I was 25, so around the same age or younger than all of the staff. I've never experienced any issues with other staff treating me disrespectfully because of my age, experience, or gender. But I also made it a priority from day one to respect each person I work with. I don't think of myself as being better or more important than anyone else I work with, No ego here.

I've been fortunate to have a job with no drama and everyone being respectful to one another. I know this isn't always the case, but please no that it I say possible.

 

[TanMan]

Most of the "advice" falls into one of these categories: you're to sensitive, you're too slow, this is normal. These are all direct/indirect ways of blaming the OP. There's no advice in them.

Not sure if you're a female (which is who the OP was asking advice from), but most female seasoned dentists have overcome several amounts of hardship. Their stories are disturbing and if you are a female dentist who has been practicing for 26 years then I feel for your hardship too, but suffering aka "being patient" in this situation is plain wrong.

1. Studies have been done about disrespect in the healthcare field and it shows the recipient of the disrespect will feel uncertainty, self-doubt, depression, as well as physical ailments like fatigue and hypertension. The impact of disrespect in the workplace is larger than we're willing to acknowledge and it even extends to the patient, causing compromise in patient care.

2. Being an associate is like being in a relationship. She's investing in her staff/boss. She needs her staff/boss to invest back in her. She's even tried multiple techniques in an attempt to improve her relationship with the staff but they're not responding to her. Instead, her staff have tried to sabotage her and put her down. The OP cannot be her own advocate, who ever is in authority needs to step up and enforce a zero tolerance for disrespect. Unfortunately, it's been 6 months and it doesn't sound like anyone has come to her aid.

In your previous post you mentioned things improved for you after 6 months. The OP has been at this job for 6 months. How long do you think she should "be patient" for? Another 6 months? Another year or two? Longer?

I understand years ago the opportunities were limited for female dentists. Thanks to those trailblazers, new female dentists do not have to suffer in the same way. There are no shortage of jobs in dentistry, why should she willfully stay in a negative, toxic work environment?

There's plenty in there... you just refuse to see any faults in the OP. When did feelings ever supersede objectivity?

1. You'll face disrespect anywhere and everywhere. Learn to deal with it in a professional manner. Not everyone lives in an ideal world. You're not going to change the staff dynamics, especially if you're the newest employee. Learn to adapt or move on. Again with the individuality and feelings. All these problems of uncertainty, depression, and "physical ailments"...If you can't get over your feelings, your boss will find someone who can. Pretty much find someone who doesn't need fixing.

2. You have it backwards. Boss/owner is the one investing in a new employee. Hiring a new employee has upfront costs (investing) and potential liabilities. The boss has to appear impartial when it comes to these types of situations and 6 months is hardly enough time to develop a positive relationship with your coworkers. Again, respect is earned not from having a DDS/DMD. The boss is not going to fire their superstar DA/hygienist over a new grad who feels disrespected.

3. People need to grow a backbone and learn to adapt to stressful emotional circumstances. If you can't, go find someone who is going to coddle you and from my short experience in corporate, that's not going to happen unless you're sleeping with the boss.

4. And why does gender matter again? Do you think that the problem is the gender dynamics or dental office culture? In heavy metro areas, you are easily replaceable in a toxic environment. In less saturated areas, the employee may have an advantage if they are not as easily replaceable.

Anyway, I'm going to say something that most others are probably thinking: Don't hire someone like you that's so focused on victimhood/oppression that you're already a liability before you're even hired.

 

[ZestyToothpaste]

There's plenty in there... you just refuse to see any faults in the OP. When did feelings ever supersede objectivity?

1. You'll face disrespect anywhere and everywhere. Learn to deal with it in a professional manner. Not everyone lives in an ideal world. You're not going to change the staff dynamics, especially if you're the newest employee. Learn to adapt or move on. Again with the individuality and feelings. All these problems of uncertainty, depression, and "physical ailments"...If you can't get over your feelings, your boss will find someone who can. Pretty much find someone who doesn't need fixing.

2. You have it backwards. Boss/owner is the one investing in a new employee. Hiring a new employee has upfront costs (investing) and potential liabilities. The boss has to appear impartial when it comes to these types of situations and 6 months is hardly enough time to develop a positive relationship with your coworkers. Again, respect is earned not from having a DDS/DMD. The boss is not going to fire their superstar DA/hygienist over a new grad who feels disrespected.

3. People need to grow a backbone and learn to adapt to stressful emotional circumstances. If you can't, go find someone who is going to coddle you and from my short experience in corporate, that's not going to happen unless you're sleeping with the boss.

4. And why does gender matter again? Do you think that the problem is the gender dynamics or dental office culture? In heavy metro areas, you are easily replaceable in a toxic environment. In less saturated areas, the employee may have an advantage if they are not as easily replaceable.

Anyway, I'm going to say something that most others are probably thinking: Don't hire someone like you that's so focused on victimhood/oppression that you're already a liability before you're even hired.

When did an opinion become objective?

"Learn to adapt or move on" - Exactly. She made several efforts. It didn't work. She should move on to an office with staff that isn't trying to sabotage her instead of being told, "I think you care too much what others think"

I don't have it backwards because it's not one-way. Investing is both ways and a good practice owner knows it doesn't end with upfront costs

Gender matters because the two male dentists are treated differently than the female dentist.

The liability is not making the effort to create a non-hostile workplace environment that's the same for the male and female dentist.

 

[2TH MVR]

Miss Zesty ....
I'm not discounting many of the things you are saying. But until the OP owns her own practice .... she is an employee. That's the reality. Unfortunately .... most if not all private practices do not have a fulltime HR dept. Guess who has to fill in for this fun role? The owner dentist. I can tell you if you ask most owner dentists what is the single most irritating issue with running a dental practice .... it is dealing with staff relationship issues. It NEVER ENDS. I've been there. Done that. After many years of dealing with these issues (cause it never ends) .... I finally gave up and asked my office manager to deal with these staff issues. She did. As they say .... Ignorance is bliss. Right or wrong .... I made a choice not to deal with it. And btw .... my practice was not a toxic environment. I had the same staff for many, many years. People (employees) will always act differently than owners. That's reality.

Gets worse in Corporate. Larger number of personalities. I work with 20-30 different support staff. Men and women. I remember having issues with 3 of the ortho assts. They just wouldn't do what I asked. My mistake? I wasn't the owner anymore. I was trying to relate to them as an owner ... not as a fellow employee. Over time .... I earned everyone's respect. Patients were happy. Assts were happy. I was happy. It took a solid 6-12 months to establish this. As for those 3 employees. After going through all the necessary levels of documentation with HR ... two were fired and one was transferred to a different dept. Trust me. The other staff took notice of the firings and they realized that their jobs are not always safe.

It doesn't end even if OP owns her practice. Does the owner make friends with her employees to improve the relationships? I never did this. For myself ... there was a solid line between myself (employer) and my staff (employees). Being friends with your staff just further complicates the office dynamics.

It's not easy, but in the end ..... we all went through it and are still alive. 🙂

 

[BocasDelToro]

Aren't assistants paid hourly? Why should they care how long someone takes with a procedure if they're clocking out with their paychecks at the end of the day anyways? If they are really annoyed about how slow or what method of treatment an associate is using, then they should go to dental school and get a degree if they think they can do it better.

If I were you I would put those assistants in their place. It sounds like you need to find a new job anyways - when you exit you should let the owner know that he's going to keep losing associates if he doesn't get his scut workers in line. I'm sure associate turnover is annoying for owners as it is for the assistants. Treat associates better = associates stay longer. The onus is on them.

Just my opinion. I'm also still in dental school so I have no clue how rough it is out there.

No no no no no. You have a lot to learn about actual dental practice. If you as the provider are continually running over schedule because you are slow at the procedures then you are putting the strain on the assistants to flip rooms efficiently, prep patients, accommodate emergency patients, adjust to flexible changes in procedures, etc. If your crown prep is taking you 2 hours and making you late for your next patient, it is your assistant who has to intercept that next disgruntled patient who had to wait 20, 30 minutes past their appointment time, NOT you.
If you undervalue and disrespect your assistants, they will make your life a living nightmare. And they have every right to do so.

 

[yappy]

Miss Zesty ....
I'm not discounting many of the things you are saying. But until the OP owns her own practice .... she is an employee. That's the reality. Unfortunately .... most if not all private practices do not have a fulltime HR dept. Guess who has to fill in for this fun role? The owner dentist. I can tell you if you ask most owner dentists what is the single most irritating issue with running a dental practice .... it is dealing with staff relationship issues. It NEVER ENDS. I've been there. Done that. After many years of dealing with these issues (cause it never ends) .... I finally gave up and asked my office manager to deal with these staff issues. She did. As they say .... Ignorance is bliss. Right or wrong .... I made a choice not to deal with it. And btw .... my practice was not a toxic environment. I had the same staff for many, many years. People (employees) will always act differently than owners. That's reality.

 

[TanMan]

When did an opinion become objective?

"Learn to adapt or move on" - Exactly. She made several efforts. It didn't work. She should move on to an office with staff that isn't trying to sabotage her instead of being told, "I think you care too much what others think"

I don't have it backwards because it's not one-way. Investing is both ways and a good practice owner knows it doesn't end with upfront costs

Gender matters because the two male dentists are treated differently than the female dentist.

The liability is not making the effort to create a non-hostile workplace environment that's the same for the male and female dentist.

Yes, a good practice owner knows that there isn't just upfront costs, but maintenance costs as well. Why should a good practice owner have to put up with a high maintenance worker if they can get someone just as productive without the "high maintenance" part? The employee/associate has little vested in the practice unless they plan to work there long term or they are looking to acquire a part or the whole practice in the future. Otherwise, an employee is just an employee that's replaceable. No one is or should ever be irreplaceable. I had a DA who tried to pull this card and she lost in the end.

You are extremely focused on gender, but I think you're ignoring the fact that the OP just started recently. This is why objectivity to the situation matters when forming an opinion, and not all opinions are equal. Seniority is the more important aspect as to why this situation is occurring, not so much the gender.

The liability is hiring people who think that every place is a hostile oppressive work environment. Having to defend yourself against people who THINK that they are oppressed due to some protected status even if they are not is a costly endeavor for any employer to take on. Even if a formal complaint has been filed without merit, there are still legal costs associated with dealing with formal complaints. Unfortunately, individuals such as yourself are walking liabilities due to the belief that "the man/men" is/are out to get you. Office dynamics can be seriously disrupted by the serial complainer and harmful to the overall morale of the staff.

 

[ZestyToothpaste]

Yes, a good practice owner knows that there isn't just upfront costs, but maintenance costs as well. Why should a good practice owner have to put up with a high maintenance worker if they can get someone just as productive without the "high maintenance" part? The employee/associate has little vested in the practice unless they plan to work there long term or they are looking to acquire a part or the whole practice in the future. Otherwise, an employee is just an employee that's replaceable. No one is or should ever be irreplaceable. I had a DA who tried to pull this card and she lost in the end.

You are extremely focused on gender, but I think you're ignoring the fact that the OP just started recently. This is why objectivity to the situation matters when forming an opinion, and not all opinions are equal. Seniority is the more important aspect as to why this situation is occurring, not so much the gender.

The liability is hiring people who think that every place is a hostile oppressive work environment. Having to defend yourself against people who THINK that they are oppressed due to some protected status even if they are not is a costly endeavor for any employer to take on. Even if a formal complaint has been filed without merit, there are still legal costs associated with dealing with formal complaints. Unfortunately, individuals such as yourself are walking liabilities due to the belief that "the man/men" is/are out to get you. Office dynamics can be seriously disrupted by the serial complainer and harmful to the overall morale of the staff.

1. Who in your example is the high maintenance employee? The OP who is being sabotaged by her staff?
2. Gender is a large factor in this and it's foolish to think otherwise. You claiming that seniority is more important is subjective, not objective.
3. What the OP described is a hostile work environment. Look up the definition for hostile work environment

You are projecting a lot of your baggage/assumptions onto the OP and myself even. It's quite arrogant for you to state what kind of person I am. Your interaction with me has been a handful of posts on one thread. Tone it down a notch.

 

[321931]

It's just new grad pains, and the OP will get better over the course of 1-2 years and own their own practice and the rest is history. Sometimes tough love is the best love.

For all the posters who are dental students posting it's not fair etc- you will understand when you are are out in the real world.

 

[Splenda88]

It's just new grad pains, and the OP will get better over the course of 1-2 years and own their own practice and the rest is history. Sometimes tough love is the best love.

For all the posters who are dental students posting it's not fair etc- you will understand when you are are out in the real world.

So it's ok for OP to be disrespected by another employee because of seniority...

 

[321931]

So it's ok for OP to be disrespected by another employee because of seniority...

If you don’t like the work environment then leave. There’s 50 states with 50000 dental offices around. Fact is as a new grad you can’t produce compared to a seasoned grad, you are the slowest and actually probably cost the employer money by redoes/angry patients who leave due to incompetence, and for the assistants that have to assist you/them - it’s literally painful. How? A seasoned grad can do a root canal under 1-2 hours, fillings 10 min, crowns less then an hour. A new grad takes 1 hour a filling, multiple visits root canal and crowns 2-3 hours... assistants do not want to be scrunched over for hours while the seasoned guy finishes early with their assistant for lunch while they are working through their lunches. In the end the office manager annoyed at losing money, assistants annoyed working through long procedures, and hygienists waiting constantly and being behind via hygiene checks.

How do you get over this? Experience and getting better. Or you can just leave the job. No one is holding you hostage to your job. Go somewhere else if you feel mistreated, but working with new grads and having been a new grad, I know how slow and bad they tend to be

My vote is to get better, get your paycheck and open your own shop. If you stick around as an associate- understand that respect is earned not given. Just because you have a DDS doesn’t mean people will bow to you. DDS employees are dime a dozen and easily replaced. If I put an ad out for a dental hygienist/assistant versus a dentist- I could easily replace the DDS easier then a hygienist/assistant.

 

[Mauricio45]

I know it's an old thread. But I think many associates have been through this. A "rite of passage" if you will for the unsuspecting new grad.

 

[oralcare123]

I am a female, just started my first job at a clinic that has a 100% female staff. Two providers are male. To add, I’ve been told I look young and always get asked my age by patients among others.

The most difficult part of the job thus far has been dealing with the dental assistants. Mine in particular have an inbuilt disrespect towards me. One in particular strikes me as insecure, and if I poke at that insecurity by correcting her, she will talk about me to the whole office. She’s attempted to sabotage my other relationships in the office. I have no beef with her and keep it professional. But there are others I am more fond of, and she will spread lies if she sees those bonds developing. The Manipulative type.

Both of my assistants question everything I do, and love to hop on/exaggerate any of the standard clinical snafus, if there are any. For example a patient came in as an ER complaining that a filling that I did “fell out”. The exam revealed the filling was still there. The reaction of the DAs before the exam shocked me - I could see them whispering and rolling eyes / passing judgement at me.

So far in my 6 months practicing, I’ve had only one patient complaint. She was post partum and hormonal and required more anesthetic than what she allowed me to administer to her. My DA saw the entire thing transpire and could easily attest to the fact that I followed correct protocol and did what I should have - if she wanted to. But when it came to defending me or having my back, she wasn’t there.
She was not on my team and instead spread stuff about me to the entire floor.

To me, this stems from the disrespect.
The older men dentists don’t get this treatment.

I don’t think it’s a tall requirement to expect to be a team with the DAs and not be working against an inherent bias.

I just wanted to know if there are any new dentists who feel this way? Particularly any who deal w female on female issues?

What can be done to tackle it? I’ve tried killing them with kindness, complimenting them and placating the insecurities, talking openly about my own struggles and “humanizing” myself. Not having much success here.

Being kind doesn't work. Be firm. Demand certain behavior. Report unacceptable behavior to HR or owner

 

[yappy]

6) Lastly- just because you have DDS behind your name doesn't mean you deserve respect. Respect is earned.

I think this sentiment is practically true but still disappointing. Being a DDS/DMD absolutely should command respect in the context of a clinical or academic environment. The dentist is the authority because they have fulfilled the necessary educational requirements to be licensed. It's a disappointment that immature and unprofessional behavior in so common. Everyone should be treated respectfully.

 

[Cold Front]

I think this sentiment is practically true but still disappointing. Being a DDS/DMD absolutely should command respect in the context of a clinical or academic environment. The dentist is the authority because they have fulfilled the necessary educational requirements to be licensed. It's a disappointment that immature and unprofessional behavior in so common. Everyone should be treated respectfully.

It’s a jungle out there. The only situation I know where a dentist can command a full respect is when the dentist is the practice owner. Staff behaves differently and mostly with total respect when you are cutting their checks.

There were few times I asked my staff about new associates I brought in at different times to the office, and majority of my staff said they didn’t like the new associates. Many staff even encouraged me to not hire any new associates regardless of their experience. My feeling was - staff don’t like change to their workflow and learning to assist a new dentist, specially the older staff. It’s also an extra stress and restrain to their duties. The same way existing patients would request their regular owner dentist at the office over the new associate for their treatment. I think these behaviors only applies at private practices. Corporate dentistry doesn’t care much what the staff’s or associate dentists feelings are - they are told to suck it up and get on with it. That’s why DSO offices have faster revolving doors than private practices, because they’re run differently and everything is about the bottom line - and not the humans that work there.

 

[Mauricio45]

It's been my experience working with a corporate office that staff doesn't favour one dentist over the other since neither one of us is signing their paycheques. So, we both get treated equally. I found that was the biggest advantage working for corporate office. I think the lack of respect that many private office owners/staff have towards their associates drives many people toward corporate offices these days. I.e. cherry-picking high production cases from associate's schedule, etc.

Like someone else said above, patients are not usually receptive to seeing "just an associate" and staff doesn't want to work hard for "just an associate". There are very few reasons private office associateships can work out (i.e. associate does all the endos that owner doesn't do; or pre-arranged agreement for associate to take over the office).

 

[2TH MVR]

I've been on both sides of this fence (ownership/DSO). The staff-Dr. dynamics are definitely different. As a private owner ...... it was my way or the highway ... within reason. As all private practice owners know .... it is difficult to find and retain GOOD staff. I respected my staff and they respected me. Whether earned or not .... I signed their checks. But at the same time .... I was not their friend. Our roles were clearly defined. No ambiguity. As a result ... I had the SAME loyal staff for many, many years. I had a smooth running machine. Now ... if I brought in an associate dentist/ortho (never did). I would EXPECT that dentist/ortho to respect me. My staff. And the systems I had in place. Again ..... title of Dr. means nothing until respect is earned. This is the same with any profession, job, whatever.

In the DSO environment. Things get trickier. You don't sign their checks. But YOU do have a say in having an asst dismissed (fired). Obviously this goes through the HR dept. I was instrumental in having 2 assts canned for being ****heads. What I've learned in this environment is that respect is EARNED moreso than private practice. I am simply a fellow employee in the DSO. I remind the staff of this all the time. They respect me because I am a proven commodity. Staff appreciate an experienced dentist/dr. that makes their jobs easier. They can also see the difference between good tx and poor tx.

So. Unfortunately for the new dentist/grad. Your title is only superficial. It means nothing until you have earned the respect of your fellow staff members. With time and experience .... this gets better. Or. Be a practice owner. Respect is purchased initially.

Lastly. Staff management issues. Usually one of the most hated parts of running a dental practice. As a private practice owner ... YOU are the HR dept. I tried having my office manager handle this, but unfortunately .... the final decision falls on you. In the DSO. Not my responsibility.