Comments on Senior Resident Job Search.

[Mobiaz]

Just wondering what other senior residents are experiencing in their job search. I am a senior resident at a fairly well respected program in the midwest. It seems as though none of my classmates are having an easy time in the job search.

I was just wondering if most others are experiencing the same thing, or if most people are not finding a whole lot of opportunity.

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[veetz]

3/10 CA-3's at my program are going into practice, 2 of which have secured jobs which they are very happy with. The 3rd is searching in an area with limited options, so she hasn't found one yet.

 

[Gaseous Clay]

I think the job market has been pretty good. At my program, we have 7 residents. 2 are doing chronic pain at their #1 choice. The other 4 in my program went on only 1 interview and all secured that job. Me on the other hand, I've done 8 interviews thus far and have 7 offers. I am down to a top 3 and can't decide for the life of me! I need to decide by this weekend.

I've turned down multiple other job interview offers, I really don't think it is as bad as people make it out to be. The jobs are still very well compensated in my opinion as well.

 

[amyl]

as a junior resident at my program i can only share gossip regarding the seniors deals. a fellow i know hasn't found a job yet and is having trouble but is very limited geographically for family reasons and its a desirable place. one got a great offer w v generous signing bonus, 400+k to start, loan repayment program -- but it is what some might consider not the best location as it is a small town in the midwest. others i have heard are starting around 275-300 the first year with better numbers after. a few are staying here and doing academics -- the deal is 290k plus apparently great benefits, call 1 in 25 but call is busy!
i am pretty sure most if not all of the cards fellows are finding lots of options, some have amazing offers -- one in particular, but he is truly the rockstar of all rockstars, cards fellow, chief resident, etc. -- everyone loves him... i have never heard anyone speak ill of him, no staff, no resident, no nurse... which in a program as big as mine is amazing.
seems the same as last year.... but i only have the gossip to go on....

 

[Consigliere]

The kids I know who are graduating are having a bit of a rough time. It's tough out there boys and girls.....

 

[Jay K]

Amyl - your numbers and stats are astounding, especially for academia; I'd never heard of an assistant prof position starting above 180K.

 

[IlDestriero]

Amyl - your numbers and stats are astounding, especially for academia; I'd never heard of an assistant prof position starting above 180K.

Look harder. You can easily make >$300k in academia, and you don't have to take a job at the University of West Nowhere. I interviewed at 2 academic jobs in big cities for over $400, I did have a few years of experience though, so a newly minted uncertified attending might get offered a bit less. But not $180! 180 sounds about right for the UC (California) system though.

 

[amyl]

290k -- that is what they are starting at -- this came directly from my chair at a resident meeting. they are hiring if you are looking.
call is 1:25 but busy! 4 weeks vacation. i guess they figure less vacation since you have most weekends off with the lighter call schedule.

 

[proman]

9/22 doing private practice. Only 1 is doing academics without fellowship. All have jobs they want in places they want (and many had more than 1 offer). Network definitely helps (like for Denver).

The others are doing fellowships at great places and most will do PP after.

 

[Hockeyguy]

I found it to be OK. 8 interviews 8 offers. Took the one with the most vacation about 17 weeks and pay is in the neighborhood of 400K. Its right outside Denver. I had other offers for much more money but you really earned it. I looked at academics and found it to be about 150K less with about 3-4 weeks vacation - forever.


I took a lot of time and did my research. There are a million different practices with many ways to compensate you. Be carefull there are people out there looking to rip you off, pretty blatenly too, yet people still smile and shake their hand for the offer. I balanced the most money for the most time off. Take your time and don't be afraid to walk from a shi tty offer. Look at a few practices to be sure you are getting a fair shake.

ps where are these >300k academic jobs? I never saw anywhere close to that - just curios.

 

[RussianJoo]

I found it to be OK. 8 interviews 8 offers. Took the one with the most vacation about 17 weeks and pay is in the neighborhood of 400K. Its right outside Denver. I had other offers for much more money but you really earned it. I looked at academics and found it to be about 150K less with about 3-4 weeks vacation - forever.


I took a lot of time and did my research. There are a million different practices with many ways to compensate you. Be carefull there are people out there looking to rip you off, pretty blatenly too, yet people still smile and shake their hand for the offer. I balanced the most money for the most time off. Take your time and don't be afraid to walk from a shi tty offer. Look at a few practices to be sure you are getting a fair shake.

ps where are these >300k academic jobs? I never saw anywhere close to that - just curios.

do you have a fellowship? 400k a year plus 17 weeks vaca is amazing.

 

[md2010sgu]

180 sounds about right for the UC (California) system though.

Yeppers...

 

[usnavdoc]

290k -- that is what they are starting at -- this came directly from my chair at a resident meeting. they are hiring if you are looking.
call is 1:25 but busy! 4 weeks vacation. i guess they figure less vacation since you have most weekends off with the lighter call schedule.

From my experience 4 weeks vaca and 2 weeks paid cme are average for academics.

 

[IlDestriero]

From my experience 4 weeks vaca and 2 weeks paid cme are average for academics.

Correct, 6 weeks off, outside of any additional academic (non clinical) time that you get off.

 

[Hockeyguy]

do you have a fellowship? 400k a year plus 17 weeks vaca is amazing.

No fellowship. It is a pretty amazing job I think. I will be doing all cases including basic peds and some CT. Won't be doing CT right away and honestly don't care if I do ever. Have been doing all CT during my CA3 year and all it means is you get to come to work earlier and after a ton of echo I'm over that too. I want a variety of cases to work with friends and be able to snowboard a ton hang with my family and friends. It was hard to find but I think I got what I wanted. I guess you never know til you start though.

As a side I interviewed at two groups in Denver pretty well respected that said flat out the DO NOT interview fellowship trained people. I was shocked and asked why and their response was that they try to reinvent the wheel and end up being bored because they don't get a high volume of the cases they want to do. Pretty eye opening. There was a case of fellowship hurting you. 500k plus job wouldn't even interview you with a fellowship.

 

[RussianJoo]

No fellowship. It is a pretty amazing job I think. I will be doing all cases including basic peds and some CT. Won't be doing CT right away and honestly don't care if I do ever. Have been doing all CT during my CA3 year and all it means is you get to come to work earlier and after a ton of echo I'm over that too. I want a variety of cases to work with friends and be able to snowboard a ton hang with my family and friends. It was hard to find but I think I got what I wanted. I guess you never know til you start though.

As a side I interviewed at two groups in Denver pretty well respected that said flat out the DO NOT interview fellowship trained people. I was shocked and asked why and their response was that they try to reinvent the wheel and end up being bored because they don't get a high volume of the cases they want to do. Pretty eye opening. There was a case of fellowship hurting you. 500k plus job wouldn't even interview you with a fellowship.

cool thanks for the reply. good luck to you, hopefully the job is everything it sounds to be.

 

[md2010sgu]

As a side I interviewed at two groups in Denver pretty well respected that said flat out the DO NOT interview fellowship trained people. I was shocked and asked why and their response was that they try to reinvent the wheel and end up being bored because they don't get a high volume of the cases they want to do. Pretty eye opening. There was a case of fellowship hurting you. 500k plus job wouldn't even interview you with a fellowship.

Interesting...

 

[countingdays]

That reflects poorly on the current group's commitment to continuing education. If they can't defend their practice from the big bad well-read fellowship grad, maybe it's time to retire.

 

[2ndyear]

I found it to be OK. 8 interviews 8 offers. Took the one with the most vacation about 17 weeks and pay is in the neighborhood of 400K. Its right outside Denver. I had other offers for much more money but you really earned it. I looked at academics and found it to be about 150K less with about 3-4 weeks vacation - forever.


I took a lot of time and did my research. There are a million different practices with many ways to compensate you. Be carefull there are people out there looking to rip you off, pretty blatenly too, yet people still smile and shake their hand for the offer. I balanced the most money for the most time off. Take your time and don't be afraid to walk from a shi tty offer. Look at a few practices to be sure you are getting a fair shake.

ps where are these >300k academic jobs? I never saw anywhere close to that - just curios.

Wow, congrats on a great find! Is the call fairly frequent/brutal?, it's a great salary and I have never seen so much vacation unless it's like q2 call.

 

[Pilot Doc]

That reflects poorly on the current group's commitment to continuing education. If they can't defend their practice from the big bad well-read fellowship grad, maybe it's time to retire.

It's equally likely, if not more so, that the big academic FNG fellow can't appreciate the group's expertise and incorporate it into his practice.

 

[countingdays]

It's equally likely, if not more so, that the big academic FNG fellow can't appreciate the group's expertise and incorporate it into his practice.

Absolutely, either could be the case. I've observed (from the outside) some attendings' reluctance to update their practice based on newer evidence than what was around when they trained decades ago. At that location, they also didn't want to hire fellowship grads because they wanted to just keep doing what they were doing, whatever the evidence that they should change. I also saw pushy fellowship grads at another location trying to change people's practice for no good reason. I wouldn't blame those partners if they were reluctant to hire fellowship grads after that experience.
I don't really know what the group mentioned above's experience with fellowship grads was like, but I find it a questionable practice to view added qualifications as negatives.

 

[IlDestriero]

That reflects poorly on the current group's commitment to continuing education. If they can't defend their practice from the big bad well-read fellowship grad, maybe it's time to retire.

My thoughts exactly. If their "tried and true" way is better, I'm sure the fellowship trained guy has the experience to figure that out. The opposite is not necessarily true.

 

[Hockeyguy]

My thoughts exactly. If their "tried and true" way is better, I'm sure the fellowship trained guy has the experience to figure that out. The opposite is not necessarily true.

I don't buy that logic either. I've worked with some fellows over the years that I wouldn't let sleep my dog. Some quite frankly need the extra year before they should do anything on their own.

Either way I'm not working for one of those groups. But like the old saying goes "when you start your own highly successful, well respected practice that makes tons of money - you can dole out those 500k+ year jobs to whoever you'd like" until then it doesn't matter what we think. Right? We may not agree with it I'm just telling two personal experiences I had.

 

[ProRealDoc]

I found it to be OK. 8 interviews 8 offers. Took the one with the most vacation about 17 weeks and pay is in the neighborhood of 400K. Its right outside Denver. I had other offers for much more money but you really earned it. I looked at academics and found it to be about 150K less with about 3-4 weeks vacation - forever.


I took a lot of time and did my research. There are a million different practices with many ways to compensate you. Be carefull there are people out there looking to rip you off, pretty blatenly too, yet people still smile and shake their hand for the offer. I balanced the most money for the most time off. Take your time and don't be afraid to walk from a shi tty offer. Look at a few practices to be sure you are getting a fair shake.

ps where are these >300k academic jobs? I never saw anywhere close to that - just curios.

For a moment I thought you signed up to be the medical director of an all-CRNA group.

 

[Jeff05]

I found it to be OK. 8 interviews 8 offers. Took the one with the most vacation about 17 weeks and pay is in the neighborhood of 400K. Its right outside Denver. I had other offers for much more money but you really earned it. I looked at academics and found it to be about 150K less with about 3-4 weeks vacation - forever.


I took a lot of time and did my research. There are a million different practices with many ways to compensate you. Be carefull there are people out there looking to rip you off, pretty blatenly too, yet people still smile and shake their hand for the offer. I balanced the most money for the most time off. Take your time and don't be afraid to walk from a shi tty offer. Look at a few practices to be sure you are getting a fair shake.

ps where are these >300k academic jobs? I never saw anywhere close to that - just curios.

300k+ academic jobs are hard to get and are not available to most people.
is your 400k a 1099 position? partnership? how often are you on call during the weeks that you work? i interviewed widely and positions like yours always had a catch.

400k with 17 weeks vaca, decent schedule, and w2 with benefits - doesn't exist based on my search and the search of everyone in my class last year - and this year, even with fellowship.

 

[Jay K]

I found it to be OK. 8 interviews 8 offers. Took the one with the most vacation about 17 weeks and pay is in the neighborhood of 400K. Its right outside Denver. I had other offers for much more money but you really earned it.

Goodnight, Hockeyguy; Congrats on the great-sounding job. The location isn't shabby either. I'd be lying if I wasn't envious. Like the previous poster, I'm wondering if there's a catch cause it sounds like a great gig. Good luck, man.

I've only seen one advertising of a 500-600K job w/ 14wks vacation; THAT job was gone in an instant; I guess they DO exist, although just outside Denver (which I'm guessing is prime locaiton) - I'm amazed.

 

[periopdoc]

400k with 17 weeks vaca, decent schedule, and w2 with benefits - doesn't exist based on my search and the search of everyone in my class last year - and this year, even with fellowship.

It is pretty much on par with what I ended up choosing. I have a little less vacation, but the income per week worked is the same. They do exist, but they can be hard to uncover and secure.

I will make significantly less than the offer I had for supervising CRNA's, but I get more vacation and I get to live less than 1/2 hour from the slopes.

- pod

 

[Coastie]

It is pretty much on par with what I ended up choosing. I have a little less vacation, but the income per week worked is the same. They do exist, but they can be hard to uncover and secure.

I will make significantly less than the offer I had for supervising CRNA's, but I get more vacation and I get to live less than 1/2 hour from the slopes.

- pod

You could have started off making much more than 400-500k if you supervised CRNAs? Wow..

 

[bigdan]

Guys -

I'm absolutely amazed at these numbers (and very encouraged too!). Congrats!

Someone asked a valid question that I didn't see a reply to - are these 400K/17 wk vacation jobs 1099s or W2? Do they pay for your medical and malpractice insurance?

dc

 

[Gaseous Clay]

Guys -

I'm absolutely amazed at these numbers (and very encouraged too!). Congrats!

Someone asked a valid question that I didn't see a reply to - are these 400K/17 wk vacation jobs 1099s or W2? Do they pay for your medical and malpractice insurance?

dc

I'd be very surprised if the 400k + 17 wks is a W2. The closest offer I had to that was 1st year 300k, 2nd year 330k, and 3rd year and beyond was 390k. This was covering a small hospital with 4 OR's, you were on call basically 26 weeks/year and off the other 26 weeks (usually they did 1 week on, 1 week off). This was a 1099 so nothing was included.

The job I accepted sounds very similar to Blade's group. Let's just say I am VERY pleased!!

 

[SleepIsGood]

I'd be very surprised if the 400k + 17 wks is a W2. The closest offer I had to that was 1st year 300k, 2nd year 330k, and 3rd year and beyond was 390k. This was covering a small hospital with 4 OR's, you were on call basically 26 weeks/year and off the other 26 weeks (usually they did 1 week on, 1 week off). This was a 1099 so nothing was included.

The job I accepted sounds very similar to Blade's group. Let's just say I am VERY pleased!!

congrats fellas!

 

[staylor21]

Look harder. You can easily make >$300k in academia, and you don't have to take a job at the University of West Nowhere. I interviewed at 2 academic jobs in big cities for over $400, I did have a few years of experience though, so a newly minted uncertified attending might get offered a bit less. But not $180! 180 sounds about right for the UC (California) system though.

salaries for UC attdgs are posted online (since they're public officials). I won't post the link, but google can help . From what I recall, the chairs were at about 400k.

Keep in mind though, that the UCs (like all academic jobs) come with some pretty nice benefits--in the case of the UCs, I think they get CALPERs (retire at last three year's salary+nice health?) and there's tuition reimbursement for your kids...

...

 

[divinemsm]

When did/do the majority of CA-3s start to actively/aggressively begin looking for a position ? I would prefer to get started earlier rather than later-I am coming to the end of my CA-2 year

 

[CristaGalli]

How much does the institution or program the resident is graduating from, help in securing or finding these cush positions? Obviously to some extent I would imagine. But, is there a clear distinction in the private practice market btw, for example, Brigham graduates vs. Umiami graduates?

 

[pmichaelmd]

These offers are pretty nice. My group just made our last hire for the time being and he is a dude graduating from UAB this Summer. I agree that these kinds of offers seem to be fewer and further between now than when I was looking in 2006. With the anticipated changes in the healthcare model, who knows what the market will be like over the next few years? We just renegotiated contracts and I am pleased with the results, but they aren't quite what folks here are posting. Still, being a hospital employee with 47 days of vacation and a W2 between $400-$500k isn't a bad thing now.

Best of luck to all of you looking for those increasingly elusive $$$.

PMMD