community college science courses

[DoubleOSeven]

hi! i know that a thread was started a little while ago that talked about taking courses at community colleges to help someone's gpa after graduating from a university. i just wanted to revive the topic and see if i could get any feedback. i recently graduated from a university and i am thinking of taking a couple of classes at a cc to help out my science gpa. is this going to be counterproductive?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Fenrezz]

Well I don't know anything about the subject for sure, but think about it this way.

If you're sitting on an admissions committee, and someone hands you an application which lists science courses taken at a community college after they've already earned their degree, what's the first thing that will come to your mind?

 

[jkhamlin]

I didn't realize that admissions committees were that superficial.

 

[DoubleOSeven]

yeah i see your point but i mean what else can i do in this situation...i know that there are specific post bacc programs out there for people who want to improve their academic record. one such program is at MCP. however, i can't afford to shell out big bucks for that right now. i want to improve my academic record and in the immediate future, this is the only way i feel i can do this.

 

[Fenrezz]

I hear what you're saying, and I understand, but I think adcoms will know you're trying to pad your GPA if you take easy community college courses. Keep in mind, most of your competition will be people who didn't do that.

Try earning another science degree. If you have a bio degree, go for chemistry or vice versa. That way you're taking science courses that are more difficult. If you can improve your science GPA doing that, it will look much better for you. One piece of advice that I always thought was helpful when it comes to science classes, is always go more advanced, never easier. I was always told that if you get a C in a science class, instead of retaking the class, get an A in a more advanced class instead.

I don't think it has anything to do with being superficial. Again, put yourself in their shoes. You have two candidates. Same science GPA, one earned theirs taking CC classes post bac, the other one earned theirs taking graduate school science courses. Which one looks better on paper. In the end it's all about how good you look on paper before you get an interview. The competition is fierce and you don't want to do anything that will make your competitor look better for any reason.

Of course, there is the other argurment that adcoms dont have time to look at all the details in an application and will only look at the bottom line numbers before deciding to grant an interview. So who the hell knows. But you can be rest assured, once an interview is granted, most likely your application will be looked at much closer and you may get asked about the post bac CC courses. You'd have to come up with a pretty good reason, if that were the case.

Anyway, this is all my opinion. I don't know any of this for a fact. But if I were you, I would nix the CC idea.

What is your science GPA, by the way?

 

[jhug]

i would have to agree with fen on this one....unless you are taking cc classes first. I took quite a few classes from a cc and NOT ONE interviewer asked about it. My difference is that i wasn't retaking classes, i was progressing toward my degree. If there are specific classes (science) that you have done poorly in i would suggest retaking the same class at the same university. The kisser in this is that YOU MUST DO EXCELLENT in the class to show them that you are serious. Plus, i think-- but it has been a while, that if you retake a class the better grade is used in assessing your gpa. (check me on that, i would hate to give bad info). Best of luck to you!!!

 

[Fenrezz]

As far as your AACOMAS application, any classes that were replaced will be added in to your GPA, with the replaced grade thrown out, although both grades will still appear on your transcripts.

However, I don't know what the situation is after you've already earned a degree because any grades you earn at that point are considered post-bac. I don't know if you can replace a grade you got before you received your degree with a grade after.

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

Seems to me that if a post-bac program isn't in the cards for you, taking some CC classes is better than nothing. At the very least, you are improving yourself with further education. I don't really know what adcoms might think about it, but if you've got a borderline science GPA, anything that you can do to bring it up is probably for the best. Good luck.

 

[sunnydayz]

DoubleOSeven,
I was once in a similar situation that you are in. I graduated from undergrad still feeling like I needed to boost my science GPA. After exploring several options, I decided to enroll in a local university and took a full load (12-14 credit hrs) of ONLY hard core science classes . I'm talking, immunology, gross anatomy, physiology, pathogenic microbiology, etc. I thought that if I did really well in these classes, med schools could see that I was capable of doing the work. The tricks is, once you committ to enrolling in these classes, you have no choice but to do WELL! And remember, that med school is much harder anyways. The result of my determination to be a physican, and hard work, is that I got a 4.0. During the med school interviews, I got a sense from the interviewers that my having done well in those classes really played a crucial role in them accepting me. Good luck to you. If you really want it, you can get it. Just work your booty off.

 

[DoubleOSeven]

sunnydayz, did you take your full load of classes at a cc? did ad coms make any comments at all or comment about any sort of discrepancy between undergrad grades and your grades taken after graduation?

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by San_Juan_Sun
Seems to me that if a post-bac program isn't in the cards for you, taking some CC classes is better than nothing. At the very least, you are improving yourself with further education.

I agree. I took pre-reqs at a CC after I had my BS. I was never questioned about it.

 

[DrInW8ing]

DoubleOSeven,

You are probably going to get mixed advice because each person has his/her own idea on what the schools are looking for. Your best bet would be to call the particular schools you are interested in and question them about how they view CC courses.

The importatnt things to remember are that you need to boost your GPA and you need to prove that you can handle a heavy course load as stated by sunnydayz. If upper level or grad level courses are available at a cc, take them.

Good Luck!
keep focused to this goal and you will get there!

 

[sunnydayz]

Originally posted by DoubleOSeven
sunnydayz, did you take your full load of classes at a cc? did ad coms make any comments at all or comment about any sort of discrepancy between undergrad grades and your grades taken after graduation?

I took my classes at a university and not a comm. college for a couple of reasons. 1) comm. college in my area didn't offer the kind of advanced science classes I needed. (very little to pick from) 2) one of my mentors suggested that I take these additional classes at a four year university.
By taking these additional advanced courses, it was a win/win situation because not only did I prove to med schools (and myself) that I could do the work, I feel so much more prepared to tackle med school now, than I was before. Meaning, I feel like I have a better foundation and understanding of science now.

And yes, the ad coms did make a comment on my discrepancy in grades. But it was a positive comment. They realized I had a set back for whatever reason, and after that, I did everything in my power to admit my mistakes, learn from it, and to move on.

I don't think that it really matters where you take your courses, but I just found that comm college didn't offer very many choices when I'm trying to take 12-14 credits in all advanced sciences. No matter where you take them, just do well and you'll be headed for med school too!

 

[wrentana]

I also think that it depends on if you have already taken the MCAT & are happy with your score. If you did poorly in some of your basic science courses & need to gain a deeper understanding of the material then a community college may be a great option. (It's a heck of a lot cheaper)

It is a fallacy that you can't get a quality education at a community college. Just do a little research, ask around, and find out who the good professors are. That can make all the difference.

I have a degree and I'm now at a CC finishing up pre-req's (made the Dr. decision a little later than some). There are others on similar tracks here and we tend to gravitate towards each other. My experience has been that the opportunity for education has been provided in all of my classes here & it has often been up to me to make the most of it.

Best of luck.

 

[futuredo32]

I began my undergrad "career" at a community college and then went to a university. I later went back to a community college to repeat the courses I didn't do well in. The schools at which I interviewed did not make a note of this and they were quite impressed with my overall GPA. My advice to you is to repeat the courses at a community college and make sure you do well in them.

 

[cdreed]

I applied to two schools- one osteo and one allo. I was accepted to the osteo and waitlisted at the allo, and I took all my lower division sciences at a cc. I also took physics II and orgo II at a cc post bac. These courses were not required for my B.S. though.

I must qualify this statement by adding that I have a great deal of clinical experience... I am a med tech in the AF. We do nursing duties. I have NREMT, ACLS and PALS certifications.

I don't believe that cc courses are detrimental if you have other factors in your app that represent you well.

Hope this helps.

Cyndi

 

[Fenrezz]

Well, I guess I stand corrected in this case. Makes me wonder if I shouldn't have done the same thing.

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

I think that undergraduate prerequisites will be the same regardless of where you take them. Actually, in my case, the classes at the local CC were more intense than those at my university. The faculty is much broader at the CC and in my opinion, the students transferring from the CC into our department were more prepared and of a higher caliber than the students who started as freshmen at the University. Granted, this is only one example, but it is ridiculous for someone to make an assumption that CC classes are easy. The math classes are hardcore at the CC. I had friends who were math majors who took many of their lower division math courses at the CC because they were more challenging.

Furthermore, I agree with DrMom. The adcoms SHOULD NOT afford someone from a big univ more merit than someone who did their prereqs postbacc at a jc. If they did, they would be committing a serious offense of discrimination. And if anything, the large schools are more guilty of grade inflation than the smaller liberal arts schools and CCs. Organic Chemistry should be (and usually is) exactly the same regardless of whether you took it at Harvard or at Podunk CC. You may even get more hands on experience at the CC because of smaller class sizes.

Enough ranting...just my $.02. But hey, what do I know right .

 

[jkhamlin]

Originally posted by WannabeDO
And if anything, the large schools are more guilty of grade inflation than the smaller liberal arts schools and CCs. Organic Chemistry should be (and usually is) exactly the same regardless of whether you took it at Harvard or at Podunk CC. You may even get more hands on experience at the CC because of smaller class sizes.

That, and the CC's have more to prove, so they work their students harder. Harvard gets a free ride on anything they do. Everyone scrambles to bow down to them, but CC's always have to defend their reputation and accreditation.

 

[merlin17]

I've taught a bunch of basic science courses. There are different levels at which you can teach the same body of material. While the same topics will likely be covered at any school you go to, the level at which they are dealt with will be quite different depending on the level of the students. Although this isn't great analogy, it is sort of like having one section of calculus based physics and one section of non-calculus based physics. While the topics covered would probably be identical, one group is learning the material at a much deeper level and you would never claim that they were the same thing but they are taken by different premeds as prereqs for medical school.

That said, I am convinced that you will learn plenty in any CC class to be prepared for medical school and that is what is important right?

 

[jkhamlin]

I personally prefer the classes I take at the CC here over the classes I take at the university here because at the CC here the instructors talk slower, keep the vocabulary under one syllable, and the texts are usually pop up books. It's just easier to understand the material there.

 

[DoubleOSeven]

hi everyone, thanks so much for all of the info. i really appreciate all of this feedback. it has been motivational for me. i was wondering what you all think about this: i recently graduated from uc berkeley and i was a bio major. i've done all of the prereqs for med schools (as they were also prereqs for my major). but i did not do well in the prereqs (several C's). i did however, do much much better in upper division bio courses that i took. i was looking at taking upper division type bio courses at a CC. however, in some of your posts i noted that several of you retook prereqs at a CC. what should I do? would it be more beneficial for me to retake prereqs or can i just continue onward with more upper division bio courses (i.e. biochem). i personally don't want to retake courses i have already taken and would much rather take more upper div sci courses.

 

[jkhamlin]

i did not do well in the prereqs (several C's). i did however, do much much better in upper division bio courses that i took.

If this is the case, you may be ok. I have been told face to face by admissions reps at KCOM, OSUCOM, and UHSCOM that if you start out slow but show an upward trend you will still have a good chance. I don't know about your exact situation, but if you really did "much better" in the upper division bio courses, that would greatly help.
HTH

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

Originally posted by DoubleOSeven
hi everyone, thanks so much for all of the info. i really appreciate all of this feedback. it has been motivational for me. i was wondering what you all think about this: i recently graduated from uc berkeley and i was a bio major. i've done all of the prereqs for med schools (as they were also prereqs for my major). but i did not do well in the prereqs (several C's). i did however, do much much better in upper division bio courses that i took. i was looking at taking upper division type bio courses at a CC. however, in some of your posts i noted that several of you retook prereqs at a CC. what should I do? would it be more beneficial for me to retake prereqs or can i just continue onward with more upper division bio courses (i.e. biochem). i personally don't want to retake courses i have already taken and would much rather take more upper div sci courses.

You should be fine. I wouldn't retake a class if you showed improvement in the same subject area. For example: I got a C in Calculus I, but an A in Calc II. I think it would have been pretty silly for me to then retake Calculus I just to improve my GPA. If you didn't do well in a certain class that you didn't follow up on you might consider retaking it. (Only if you think that you can significantly improve your GPA.) Better yet, since you want to take more upper division classes, take continuations of the subjects that you didn't do especially well in. If you have improved as you say you have, you should be able to show this to the adcoms accordingly.

 

[CoolDOguy]

I took chem, bio, and organic at a community college. However, I feel it's wise to take some upper division science courses at a 4 year school to display academic prowress. Furthermore, I was accepted to every school that I interviewed at (LECOM, NYCOM, NSUCOM, KCOM) , I also received interview invites from PCOM, UHS, and Des Moines. Community College courses are fine, and last I looked me thinks they are still taught by professors with advanced degrees. For instance, my organic teacher had a PhD from Cornell, I think she was qualified.

 

[ramsestiger]

I graduated from UNC and didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. Once I re-committed to the premed track, I decided I needed to make up for a couple of embarassing grades my senior year after an otherwise good premed career.

I took Microbiology and Intro Stats at my Community College, even though I had already gotten an A in Calc II. So, the stats course was a BREEZE with my background, but no one ever questioned me about that. I received interview invitations from 5 of the 7 schools where I applied (KCOM, CCOM, UHS, LECOM, UNE), and I'm still waiting to hear from the other 2 (PCOM and NJ) - probably rejections. I haven't received any rejections to date, and it's April.

Am I someone you should model yourself after? No. But if you're wondering whether you will get rejected for shameless science GPA boosting - well, no one ever asked me about it and I seriously doubt that it is going to be one of the main factors with the two schools that might not interview me. Taking classes to "expand your horizons" is usually not a negative, IMHO.

 

[DoubleOSeven]

hey guys, I'm not clear on how the CC courses will be factored into my GPA when applying to DO schools. will they go into my undergrad GPA or be counted as a separate "postbac" GPA??? at this point, i definitely dont think that i want to retake my prereqs even though i have mostly C's in them. This is mainly because i have an upward trend with my upper div bio courses. So I'm thinking that I will continue with upper div bio courses at a CC. Again, i really really appreciate all of your posts and PMs. they've been super helpful!

 

[CoolDOguy]

I just wanted to add a couple of my thoughts here......Any teacher who is teaching down to students simply because they attend a community college is doing their students a great disservice. I mean no offense but feel that students should be pushed to the maximum and held to a higher standard regardless of the academic institution. Lowering the bar for a college bio class because you are at a community college is anything but ethical. Furthermore, if some don't do well than perhaps they don't belong in a particular class.

 

[ramsestiger]

hey guys, I'm not clear on how the CC courses will be factored into my GPA when applying to DO schools. will they go into my undergrad GPA or be counted as a separate "postbac" GPA???

I just checked, and mine were counted as postbac, but they were calculated into the individual science and nonscience overall GPAs (also, for Biology and Math GPAs). The Stats course was counted as a Math which is considered nonscience for DO schools, so I guess I boosted both my science and nonscience GPAs slightly.

CoolDOguy - CC classes aren't exactly cakewalks, but you can't expect them to be at the same level as a class at Harvard. Certainly, professors have to slightly account for the caliber of their students.

 

[jhug]

i mentioned before that i took quite a few classes at a cc and had absolutely no comments about it come up in my interviews. I did it b/c i had a scholarship there and it cost me literally fractions of what it would of at a university. I've heard almost all there is about the negatives of cc's-- high-school with ash trays, second-rate classes...... the way i looked at it is that you can get a C at a university without doing a ton of work-- you can a B at a cc without doing a ton of work, but to get an A you have to put forth the effort and study. This may be the kisser for cc's. If you get A's, i'd think you would have no problems-- anything less than a B could result in some issues.

 

[CoolDOguy]

CoolDOguy - CC classes aren't exactly cakewalks, but you can't expect them to be at the same level as a class at Harvard. Certainly, professors have to slightly account for the caliber of their students.



Why can't one expect that? For that matter classes at the state university are of a lesser caliber than those of an ivy school. For the most part, I do not ascribe to that theory However, that does not mean that it does not exist on some level.......but it is still shameful. Personally, my cc courses were more comprehensive than the university ones, I feel professors at the university level were more interested in research than in teaching. I am sure we can argue back and forth on this topic, however, keep in mind that profeesor X will most likely teach the same and test the same at the university up the street as compared to the CC that they teach at when partially retired. I believe the level of difficulty of a course is subject to the individual professor, not the halls in which one teaches. Just my opinion though

 

[CoolDOguy]

Obviously I am talking about my own university. Keep in mind these are simply generalizations based on my limited exposure. Nevertheless, they are my opinions and gosh darnit I am standing by them.....jk. However, I stand by my assertion that teachers who teach down to students simply based on the location of a classroom are doing a GREAT disservice to students and themselves. I am sorry for being so outspoken on this topic but I feel strongly on a standard of education being upheld no matter what. Think about it this way, by pushing students at a community college they will learn the value of hard work and realize that they too are very intelligent people (many of them feel otherwise, such as I did).

 

[jkhamlin]

I hope this clears this argument up (I know it won't, but this is the no spin truth):
90% or more of what you get out of any course you take is what you yourself put into it. That goes if you put nothing or everything into it. That goes if you go to Harvard or Joe Blow Junior College. Instructors can help or hurt, but it mostly depends on you. And frankly, CC students are smarter in at least one way; instead of being superficial and going to a prestigious/pretentious university for gen ed, they get that for half the price and with lower instructor:student ratio. That is why most graduate institutions now overlook this longstanding myth.
HTH

 

[sean]

I also attend UC Berkeley and I am graduating this May. I went to community college first and the transfered so I know the courses you are talking about. Bio 1A, 1B, Chem 3A 3B etc... I don't think it would do you much good to repeat these courses at a community college not because its a cc but because you have already covered the material and even getting an A doesn't prove much as you took more advanced courses already. CC also doesn't offer any upper division courses so I have to agree that it might look like grade padding. I think you would be better off completing some graduate level work as that is the next leve showing upward trends. On the other hand you might not have to take any if overall your gpa is ok and your mcat scores are reasonable. I had no problem with the cc classes I had in my interviews and I was accpeted to TOURO, the only school I applied to. The best thing you can do if you live in the area is to talk directly to the admissions staff at TOURO your local school and they will give you an honest assessment of you profile. Good luck. Sean.

 

[CTashby]

I don't know about your area's community colleges, but mine was excellent. I did very well my first two years of college because i went to a community college. The material certainly wasn't easier but the learning environment was much more conducive to taking in information. for example, i only had 7 people in my organic chemistry class. It was a very hard class but we had so much attention from the teacher. My second two years i went to a big university (michigan) and did very well there also. ALL of my premed courses were taken at community college. My MCAT sucked big time but I've been accepted at CCOM and waitlisted at two other schools.
I've been told by ADCOMs that my gpa is great but my mcat needs work. They've never mentioned to me that i ruined my chances by going to a community college. just that i frucked up the mcat. i hated that test.
In any case, if the college is good, go to it. just don't take slacker courses. my community college was much better than another college i attended after graduating (eastern michigan).