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COMP NEEDS TO CHANGE, WHAT TO DO?

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by solid_confusion, May 12, 2002.

  1. solid_confusion

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    COMP is having MAJOR problems right now. Not giving details because it's not fair to the school. Let's just say...very little student sympathy. Well, that's how it comes across anyway, even though they may say it's not their intention. What do you guys think a student should do? Supposedly our class officers have been talking to administration, but we don't see any changes. :mad: :mad:

    - Confused

    For those regular COMP defenders, ie Class of 2005...I don't want to hear it. You know the truth and so do I, so please shut it and let the outside talk for once! :mad: :mad:
     
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  3. melancholy

    melancholy 1K Member

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    I'm a member of the DO class of 2005.. and at the moment, I don't think this is a fair statement for either the school or to the students of COMP. If this is an open forum, then both sides should be heard and discussed. At any rate, it would be nice to put a name behind words that are spoken so strongly.

    At a time where emotions are running high and given the circumstances, my opinion is that you should give the school the benefit of the doubt. I'm not going to comment on more than that for now because I think it's one of those times where we have to exercise some patience.

    Lanny
     
  4. ckent

    ckent Banned
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    Out of curiosity, what major problem is COMP having?
     
  5. GoForIt

    GoForIt Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> For those regular COMP defenders, ie Class of 2005...I don't want to hear it. You know the truth and so do I, so please shut it and let the outside talk for once!
    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not a COMPer, so let me the outsider talk for once. I will address your point impartially.

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> COMP is having MAJOR problems right now. Not giving details because it's not fair to the school. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's not fair to the school that you bring it up in the public forum without disclosing the whole scope of what MAJOR problems COMP is having. It could be problems affecting you because you can not cope with changes. To us outsiders, changes are necessary to keep abreast with technologies and opportunities. I do not want to attend a school that is static. I applaude COMP for its huge committment to education and accomplishments, especially recently its Vet school. COMP has consistenly made positive changes and produced excellent physicians, just confirm it with its 2002 match list.

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Let's just say...very little student sympathy. Well, that's how it comes across anyway, even though they may say it's not their intention. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As any NBA GM could have told you, a TEAM is more important than a player. If COMP has to do something to improve the school, I am sure there is always someone doesn't like it. You should not expect COMP to drop the whole plan for the sake of a few students? That's silly.

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> What do you guys think a student should do? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A student should transfer to a different school that he/she likes better. This time, make sure you find a school that would not change anything, or else you will experience the same as at COMP.

    In summmary:

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> COMP NEEDS TO CHANGE </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but not necessarily COMP only. I would say all med schools need to change. My advise is to run away from the school as soon as you can if it lies to you that it would not make any changes. You want to learn new medical techniques, new whatever.

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> WHAT TO DO?
    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You should change your attitude and welcome changes. You should do your best to cope with changes. If you think there is too much changes at COMP, you will see more after med school.
     
  6. Yosh

    Yosh Livin' in the WINDY CITY

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    Goforit:

    I hate to get involved in these things, and avoid them at all costs..but due to this topic and the goings on of the last year..I am feeling compelled to respond.

    As an outsider, your opinion is imparital, which is fine, but there are many more things and dynamics in play at COMP than you may realize.

    Before I came to COMP and would see all the bashings and disgruntled people posting...it made me angry and annoyed me.

    A year later, I can say that I do see things in a differnt light, and many things that I have experienced have been frustrating and bull**** to say the least.

    I have seen a great many of my classmates leave/be dismissed, and was scared of the same fate for myself at times too...

    Point is...an outsider opinion is just that...not to be rude and disrespectful...but unless you walked in our shoes...you can't possible have a grasp on what has gone on, and what we have delt with.

    Things continue to go on, and we continue to fight the uphill battle.

    Things always seem easier and "black and white" from the outside....and everything is easy to fix. Theoretically...it should work fine, but then again theoretically...communism is perfect on paper.

    Point being theses are static ideas that are being applied to a dynamic enviornment...which doesn't always work. The good guy doesn't always win, and doesn't always "do the right thing"

    Does that mean we give up? Of course not...but we must go into things and face each day with open eyes, and see things for what they are. Turning a blind and naive eye will only make us that much weaker and voulnerable.

    As a class, we can pull together and make it through this....point being is that we need each other, and the team mantality is one that we need to adopt as a whole...

    Its just a matter of doing it....
     
  7. solid_confusion

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    Yosh is on the money. NO ONE from the outside will understand what the Class of 2005 is and has been going through. I do not want to bum out the Class of 2006 b/c I was in their shoes last year...all peppy, excited, ready to go, and thinking positive. There are MANY MANY problems that have and continue to go on (please do not ask what they are, I can just tell you they are not typical med school problems...it' much more than the "this school sucks mentality"). It seems like as a class we have done our best to stick together, but that's no enough unfortunately. Vet school? Why don't we ask admin where our increased tuition is going...not our program, that's for certain.

    Yes, we will continue to fight the ongoing battle, but at this time we've been hit pretty hard by a devastating Tomahawk cruise missle. Something that could have easily been avoided or prevented. The radar is going off, but no one is anouncing! It will take a very long time to recuperate from the damages.

    So back to my original question, how do you deal when you feel no one is listening? Should we seek outside resources?

    -Dazed, beaten, and confused
     
  8. Yosh

    Yosh Livin' in the WINDY CITY

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    Solid,
    As I am assuming you are also "in the trenches"...e-mail me as I have no idea who you are....
    Like I said....I hate get involved in the "bashing" mantality...I am just beyond frustrated...I tried to state my point and not get into that "hating" mantality...but I am really having difficulty not being jaded and just pissed off...and feeling more pissed on.

    Just e-mail me and we'll chat...

    Thanks for the support though....

    Rememeber....

    Postive RF is not INDICATIVE of RA!

    Gotta love PT's!

    By the way, I love the quote...

    I lived on Dazed and Confused in college...me, my brother and sister all own copies of that "classic" flick..

    Where would we be without the
    "Soul Pole"?
     
  9. ariel

    ariel Junior Member

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    Hey peops,

    Perhaps one of you would like to enlighten us as to what major problems comp is experiencing.....I would sort of like to know what kind of uphill battle myself and my classmates will be fighting next year

    Thanks!!!!!
     
  10. Histrionic

    Histrionic Endowed member

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    Copy Aerial,
    I am a second year (almost a third year) at COMP, and I am confused about the nature of this thread. If you ask me, and I am sure your not, I would say that the 2005 class had a much easier 1st year curriculum than the 2004 class. Meaning, less classroom/lab hours, more focused anatomy, Merkel for biochem exam one, just to mention a few. How bad could things be for you guys? Please clear things up for your fellow readers!
     
  11. melancholy

    melancholy 1K Member

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    Solid_confusion,
    I can understand your frustration because I see and hear it often enough from people in our class. However, I think it's unfortunate that you bring more pressure upon the future class (and you did mention that this wasn't your intention) by asking the general population for advice when I feel like this needs to be dealt with by our own class and COMP students in general. Although we are asking for advice from those outside the school, at the same time, we realize that one has to have gone through these experiences in order to understand the situation in its entirety.

    I can feel your frustration.. it will be difficult walking in on Monday morning, but we need to keep strong because we're all in this together.

    - Go COMP 2005
     
  12. solid_confusion

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    You guys want to know problems? You know, it's best that you experience it all firsthand instead of me telling you about the 2005 class problems, b/c maybe you won't have these problems in your class. Maybe this incident will finally wake up the school and change the way they deal with things here...maybe not, let's see we still have a 9am exam bright and early Monday morning as if nothing's happened. Histrionic...that's odd, I guess you don't care one of your second year colleagues was dismissed 2 weeks before school is out and $60,000 in debt, so I'm not surprised that you're completely oblivious of the MS1 problems...beginning with the Kiick incident last semester and continuing on.
    Melancholy, this is no longer an internal problem. If you have read about previous posts, this school does not have the best reputation right now. I think the outside needs to know what this school is really like...no coverups like the military, President Clinton's escapades, or the church!
     
  13. GoForIt

    GoForIt Senior Member

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    Yosh,

    Since I do not have all the info regarding what happened at COMP, I cannot give any specific suggestion. I did read your posting at least five times, and am very symphathetic. Nevertheless, I still cannot get any clues as what the problem might be at COMP. I did notice in your post saying
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I have seen a great many of my classmates leave/be dismissed, and was scared of the same fate for myself at times too...
    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No med school can guarantee everyone in its entering class will graduate. Recently I read that KCOM dismissed some students which shows that COMP is not alone. I know that dismissal from med school can be very devastating to the affected individual, but then I do not know what the school can do to uphold its academic standard.

    Just hang in there. After the rain storm, can flowers be far behind?
     
  14. drfeelgood

    drfeelgood In Gas We Trust

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    Students get kicked out of COMP for failing 2 systems. In my experience as a member of the COMP class of 2002, these exams are designed so the average sutdent can get a B. I noticed that students who do poorly on these exams, i.e. 5 year program, will tend to do poorly on board exams. I know of people being pulled out of residency because they couldn't pass Comlex II. So it's a way for COMP to kick these weak students out before they go $150,000 in debt. It sucks....and I feel for my fallen classmates, but life isn't fair. :( And if you can't pass these simple exams....wait until you see the boards.

    Sure COMP isn't the best Med School, but No one forced you with a gun to sign up!!! And last time I looked in the mail box, I didn't see a fat acceptance letter from UCLA MED SCHOOL. SO TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT!!!!

    GOFORIT is right.... if COMP is SOOOOO CRAPY, how come our students still matched at some great places??

    So the difference that makes the difference is......

    Just hang in there, It's much better during the clinical years. My knowledge base tripled.

    Well...I'm off to Internship
     
  15. Careofme

    Careofme Senior Member

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    As a possible Class of 2006'er (and that possibility decreasing exponentially) I'd like to say that I think its very irresponsible of you all to be talking about all of this and not really stating what EXACTLY the problems are. You are not only creating hysteria but are also causing the argument to be one-sided by not allowing for those reading the thread to make their own opinions about the so-called problems at COMP.

    PLEASE STATE THE PROBLEMS.
     
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  17. jhug

    jhug 1K Member

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    i personally know two people enrolled at comp '05 and have never heard anything terrible about the school.

    if having 9am exams are putting you off-- are you sure you want to be a doctor??? at my local med school they have tests starting at 8am and end at 11-12pm! that is life! Didn't the mcat start at 8am?? And what about the patient that goes in for sugery at 5am-- we can't really say, nah- that's not fair!

    I don't think any school would dismiss students without a great feeling of needing to do so. It really hurts the school to do so. You as a student are an investment now. COMP has a lot riding on you. They provide you the education and you provide them the reputation. What did the administration say this student was dissmissed for??

    As some other posters have stated, you presented us with a "problem" but provided no real substance to what that problem may be. A generic question will get generic answers. It could be compared to a patient coming to you and simply saying-- "i don't feel good." To really dive into possible solutions we need meat! Be open about all these "problems" and we can see if there are solutions or not.
     
  18. GoForIt

    GoForIt Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> As a possible Class of 2006'er (and that possibility decreasing exponentially) I'd like to say that I think its very irresponsible of you all to be talking about all of this and not really stating what EXACTLY the problems are.
    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think drfeelgood unfolds the situation at COMP very well. Why need any more detail? Do you have to keep beating someone that's already down?

    I really feel for those who are not able to complete the COMP program. I know it's devastating, and I do not wish it on anybody. In fairness, I have to say that COMP did help with the 5 year program. If a person cannot finish one year's work in two years time, I just cannot imagine how he/she can blame COMP for his/her failure. After all, COMP has to uphold its academic standard.

    I think this thread has been worthwhile. If nothing else, it is likely to discourage those marginal students from entering the COMP program. One thing COMP can do is to raise its admission standard.
     
  19. Careofme

    Careofme Senior Member

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    So are DrFeelGoods rants what everyone is upset about? Geesh...I thought the problems were "major" like the buildings were melting or the professors were aliens or something.

    Every school has its share of problems and problem students I suppose.
     
  20. YellowRose

    YellowRose Senior Member

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    I just had to reply to this, although i'm really not feeling like it. I'm trying to cope just like you guys are about what happen, but i ask you to NOT to use these forums as a coping mechanism. These are some issues we need to discuss as a class, and we'll get through as a class. Getting people on this forum involved, when they don't attend our school, or aren't in our class, is, i feel disrespectful to the person involved.
     
  21. ckent

    ckent Banned
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    Why are you COMP students trying to cover this up as if it's some sort of a big scandal or something? Every med schools has a few people drop out/or are kicked out for academic/personal reasons every year. Could somebody please tell us the whole story? All of these people urging other people not to say anything just makes me want to know more.
     
  22. too-sweet-phat-cool 4-life

    too-sweet-phat-cool 4-life Way too Sweet for you!!!!

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    Please tell before I have to lay a smackdown on someone!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  23. solid_confusion

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ckent:
    <strong>Why are you COMP students trying to cover this up as if it's some sort of a big scandal or something? Every med schools has a few people drop out/or are kicked out for academic/personal reasons every year. Could somebody please tell us the whole story? All of these people urging other people not to say anything just makes me want to know more.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is not about the person or persons involved. Let's look at the big picture here. When is enough, enough? You and I both know how the class feels about our school in general, should we just accept how things are going? Or should we do something about it? Do you remember that survey one of our classmates put out a while ago? Do you remember the responses? No, I'm not posting it to the public, but it just seems nothing is being done. I'm tired of the class meetings. Don't you think it's time for outside help, or should we just wait and see until another crazy incident happens?
     
  24. Bukowski

    Bukowski Junior Member

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    What the HECK happened at COMP?!?!?! An outsider as of now would eargerly like to know. Reading this forum thread is like going to a strip club....it's a freakin tease! You all talk in such round about ways, and never get to the core of the matter or the juicy parts. Please stop talking in your weird COMP code and give details as to what your frustrations are all about. Youre driving us all future COMPers crazy!
     
  25. adismo

    adismo covered in moon dust

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    well well well, dumbasses are a dime a dozen.

    I was a staunch supporter of COMP way back in the days. now i dont know what to think, but i would soooo like to believe the right thing.

    (let me just say that i am adressing what i think needs to be changed. for the gunners in the class, or previous classes, that are hateful or offended by average medtudents voicing their opinions, its ok, youll get high grades even when things do chage for the better. just please get over yourselves)

    like the addage goes if it aint broke dont fix it... someone has been trying to 'fix' things at COMP

    curriculum:
    i am just watching in shock and disbelief at how insidiously, over the past year, banal and trivial information has crept into our class material; disorganized, fragmented, incomplete, and incoherent, and at times irrelevant. (evidence based medicine? did i miss the medicine part?)

    to CORE or not to CORE
    as medical students we have limited time to study this material as it is utterly frustrating to sit there and spend hours on end pulling information together to make a unified whole, only to have to relearn it. how many times and in how many different ways have we been taught SLE from our profs and clinicians? i am a medstudent, not a board review author... so come exam time, myself and most people i know just settle for the buzzword method of learning. need i say more? in my humble opinion, systems curriculum is entirely flawed; its designed to build broad clinical knowledge on a fragmented basic science foundation.

    these students complain too much:
    medstudents are expected to learn voluminous amounts of material, even without complete mastery. thus it is the SCHOOL's RESPONSIBILITY to make that learning process efficient and entirely applicable. a class performance on exams, boards, and residency reflects on the school (it doesnt take a high priced consultant to tell you this) poor overall performanc does not reflect on the sdudent body that well, they're lazy and complain too much or they need to value hard work or whatever other form of condescention...

    its the economy, stupid:
    COMP administration and faculty (i know theyre reading this) should realize that we are their students, their 'family' (i like that buzzword), and it would be in COMP's best interest (ka-ching$$$) that we succeed (yea i know it sounds funny, but its true).

    read this last part, its important:
    COMP should improve curriculum and change professional attitudes commonly purveyed (how many administration or faculty have you ever heard say "we want our students to be the absolute best and succeed and we go out of our way to make optimize learning" and how many have you heard say "just pass, its ok, dont worry, 70 is DO". Rather than trying to protect a reputation, COMP should rebuild a reputation already lost.
     
  26. Careofme

    Careofme Senior Member

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    This is truly sad.
     
  27. jhug

    jhug 1K Member

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    careofme-- i would greatly discourage any real attention to what is being said in these forums. I'd go with what you felt at your interview and look to the students you met there-- i think they gave out cards or something. med school is too big an accomplishment to be tarnished by anything that may be said here.
     
  28. ckent

    ckent Banned
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    Yeah, I agree with jhug on this one. Med school is what you make out of it. Even if COMP has a crappy curriculum and teaching for the first two years, most of med school is independent study anyways. You might even be better off if you learn all of your information from studying board books and skipping class anyways (take it from one who is now studying for the boards). If you work hard, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to pass whatever they throw at you. Keep in mind that there are disgruntled students at every school too. When Harvard first changed their curiculum to all PBL in the mid 1990s, I guarentee that there were some that would have been having the same thoughts as people on this board about COMP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . That much said, it's nice that some of the COMP students were good enough to air whatever troubles the student body are having for prospective COMP students to know about and be prepared for when they start school. It's really nothing that you need to be secretive about, if your unhappy with your school, then there certainly isn't anything wrong with letting people on an SDN forum know about it. People should be adult enough to realize that this is only several students' opinions and not universally held.
     
  29. GoForIt

    GoForIt Senior Member

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    Careofme;

    I side with jhug on this one. Use your best judgement, and do what's right for you. Don't make your decision based on what a few disgruntle students have to say.

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">systems curriculum is entirely flawed </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is not the first year that COMP adapted the systems curriculum. My friends who are COMP alumni told me their school have been on the system curriculum for YEARS. How can it be suddenly flawed when it has been producing quality physicians time and time again.

    Careofme, you don't go to a school that gives way to disgruntle students. You go to a school that uphold its academic standard. COMP has a good reputation in the medical community, and continues to get better.
     
  30. vdubpower

    vdubpower Senior Member

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    Guess who's back.........i finally remembered my password.........for those of you who dont know me, i'm a legend, check out posts wayz back in the dayz.......adismo, u hit it right on the head.....fro bro power.....u right.......this school is just flailing in many aspects and it just is sad......anyways i dont got much to say abt this right now....i'm still caught up in our other situation we just had ------peace to JM

    -vdub
     
  31. solid_confusion

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  32. osteodoc13

    osteodoc13 Member

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    As a COMP 2002, I would just like to add something. When we were second years, we were very bitter at the school. We were getting no support, we felt unprepared for boards, the class days were too long, WAY too much repetition, no pharm teachers, biochem was a joke, the only area of boards the school does well on is OPP, the list goes on. When I got out into the clinical years, I did a lot of rotations with COMP alumni, and when I tried to voice my complaints, they would interrupt me and then proceed to give me the whole list of problems at the school, even though they may have graduated 5-10 years ago. They explained to me that schools don't change because the students move on while the administration and faculty stay. There have always been problems at COMP, and I'm sure there will continue to be problems until there are major changes at the highest levels. I know that there have been changes in the medical school administration with little improvement, but the real changes won't take place until there are university-wide administrative changes (you know what I mean.)

    In the mean time, for the prospective students, the advice remains the same:
    1. Don't buy textbooks. Buy board review books and use them for the majority of your studying. Review the notes just before the exam to pick up some minor facts which will improve your grade.
    2. Don't go to lectures which are not helpful to you. If you don't get anything from that hour of lecture, you were better off sitting in the library and studying your board review. Try to go to most of the clinical lectures, though.
    3. I'm not trying to sound patronizing, but you are adults now. You all have made it through 16 years of schooling. If you haven't figured out how to learn on your own yet, you need to get help, either from the school or from your classmates.
    4. In the long run, medical school is really just an expensive reading list. This doesn't mean that you are not entitled to help from your professors, but most of the stuff you really learn from sitting in front of the book and reading.
    5. From talking to other students and reading other threads, every school has problems. If you avoid COMP by going to another school, you will run into different problems. I have thoroughly enjoyed my time at COMP. I have met many great friends, and I feel very confidant in my education.

    Good luck to all of the 2005 group. Remember that when you get out on clinical rotations it is like the school doesn't even exist.
     
  33. Dr. Evil

    Dr. Evil Member

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    This is easily the most accurate and useful post on this thread, or possibly even SDN altogether (I am referring to "osteodoc 13"). Every medical student should write down the aforementioned points and hang them on the mirror.
     
  34. Bukowski

    Bukowski Junior Member

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    great post osteodoc3...I'll remember that when I am in DO school next year.
     
  35. adismo

    adismo covered in moon dust

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    osteodoc13, brilliant post. i agree entirely with you that broad administrative changes need to be made, moreso than anything else that could be done. i just wish more people would start voicing their opinion in a constructive way rather than purely bitching around or sucking up to the school. cant we all just get along?? nice to see Vdub back.
     
  36. drfeelgood

    drfeelgood In Gas We Trust

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    What's up loveless...

    I'm going to have to agree with OSTEODOC. I wish someone would have given me that advice 4 years ago. Now i have a Gazillion Books I haven't touched since i bought them the first year at COMP. Anyways.... I find that I remember disease processes best by remembering the patients in which i saw these processes take place and then going home and reading up on the disease and related diseases. The key is independent reading!!!!

    Principles are more important than facts. IF YOU master the principles, you can make up the facts. Felson,B HUMOR IN MEDICINE
     
  37. jean

    jean Member

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    I am not a COMP student but I have met many over the last few years. I've heard about some of the issues with the curriculum.

    You are on the ball with your statement about this happening at other schools. It happens! You will get so much more out of it if you make it work. I realize it can be frustrating but it doesn't have to be; it's all in your attitude. Great things happen when you are faced with big obstacles. Go out there and make COMP proud!
     
  38. Histrionic

    Histrionic Endowed member

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    Hey Confusion,

    I am not going to cry one tear over the MSII who was recently booted. COMP's policy is very clear. If you fail a system, you better get your act together and not screw up again. We have lost quite a few students after the 5th year program was eliminated. That is just the breaks! I spent that last two years studying my ass off so that I did not have to worry about failing a system. Most of my friends did the same, and we all made it through with room to spare. I have compassion for others, but this isn't business school. As future physicians, we need to learn now that medicine must to be taken seriously. If you or anyone else feels that this responsibility is too much to handle, then you must be mature and re-think your career decision. Don't make the university responsible for your shortcomings. My words may be harsh, but I feel compelled to speak out whenever these "I hate COMP" threads pop up.
    Regards, Hooman
     
  39. osteodoc13

    osteodoc13 Member

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    Let me add two more things:

    1. When I said don't buy textbooks, I should have excluded Harrison's. Someone told me recently that by the time you graduate medical school you should have read Harrison's once. I said there was no way I could sit down and read that whole text. He said that the key is to sit down each night and skim the sections concerning the patients you had that day, especially the pathophysiology of their disease. If you do this on a regular basis, you will be well ahead of most of your peers.

    2. As far as students failing out of the program, The last thing any school needs is to have poor students graduating and representing them in the community. We don't need more poor doctors out there. I understand that many students do better in the clinical years than is represented by their pre-clinical GPA, but there has to be a limit. COMP in particular is notorious for being very lenient in terms of allowing students to continue to fail their classes. Thus you have students in the past who took 6 or 7 years to finish. While I applaud their work ethic and perseverance, this is not appropriate. The minimum requirements for graduation are not unreasonably difficult, and if you can't meet them then, I'm sorry, but you have to go.
     
  40. solid_confusion

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by osteodoc13:

    2. As far as students failing out of the program, The last thing any school needs is to have poor students graduating and representing them in the community. I'm sorry, but you have to go.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm...what if it's more than just failing a student? Just accept it?..NO way!!!! I'm sorry but you have to go?...wow that sounds like the attitude of the admin regarding this last "incident" we just had.

    I remember during convocation a story we were told, a story about a nurse describing the stages of a physician, beginning as a first year and ending as the attending. The nurse described the "attitude change" of the physician...beginning as a compassionate, caring individual, and ending as a non-compassionate power-hungry physician. It seems like osteodoc fits this story pretty well.

    It also seems like this is how COMP is training us to think. Humanism? BS! I just hope I don't turn out the way some people in this thread are. No sympathy, no compassion. How saddening...guess I better get used to it. :confused: :confused:
     
  41. melancholy

    melancholy 1K Member

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    There are plenty of members in our class that have shown the dedication and compassion necessary to become a wonderful doctor in the future. Who is to say that by the actions of administration we'll eventually become taught to become bitter professionals with lack of sympathy and caring for our patients? I don't think that's the intent of the school although it may appear that way. Med school will always be a struggle.. perhaps one of them is to try and keep that same compassion throughout our education. I know there are plenty of doctors out there who lost it and/or still lack that sort of caring manner for patients and it is unrealistic to think we won't become otherwise, but that doesn't mean you can't work to keep it. I've found that doing more extracurricular activities including clinically-related ones keep me inspired, interested in my own education, and helps me try to keep the big picture in mind for the future.

    By the way, I'm just addressing one point so don't think I'm being too narrow-minded. There are plenty of other things to address in this thread. I also read the KCOM article regarding students who were dismissed. I still think it is a fair statement to say that other schools have problems as well. We should still work on trying to fix ours (I'm just expressing my opinion here, not any sort of solution like you were asking for originally.. it's a bit more complicated than that).

    I'd like to remind others that this thread does tend to focus on negative things although there are positives about the school that don't get mentioned. Personally, I don't think anything can improve without some sort of positive attitude, but it's good to address some issues that need to be addressed.
     
  42. drfeelgood

    drfeelgood In Gas We Trust

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    Hey Solidly Confused....

    As a classmate of OSTEODOC13, I can say that DR. LOVEless has a lot of LOVE in his heart. He is not a power-hungry, insensitive guy.I can sense that you, yourself have visited the deans office regarding academic problems. ???? :confused: :confused:

    So don't blame the school if/when you get kicked out.

    Ask yourself this question....

    Would you want a student who can't even pass systems exams to work on your grandmother??

    If you are hitting .142 in the majors, it's time to send your sorry @$$ back to the minor leagues. Ever consider joining the PA program????
     
  43. melancholy

    melancholy 1K Member

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    I have to tend to agree on the point that I would want the doctor working on a family member or friend (and me as well) to be one who is competent as well as empathetic. I'd think this would be more apparent as we become medical professionals treated by someone else in our profession. I would rather have someone who really knew their stuff treating me rather than someone who had the most wonderful personality, but barely squeaked by in all facets of performance in medical school. Unfortunately, good intent can't take the place of competency when someone's life and/or livelihood could be on the line.
     
  44. jhug

    jhug 1K Member

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    "The minimum requirements for graduation are not unreasonably difficult, and if you can't meet them then, I'm sorry, but you have to go......
    We don't need more poor doctors out there."

    In life-- especially medicine -- this is an attitude that must prevail for the good of our patients. You simply cannot have patients dying because a doctor didn't understand what they are doing. I have two older bro's who couldn't hack it into med school-- my heart goes out to them, but they just didn't have what it takes. Sometimes, as much as we want something- we just don't have what it takes and recognizing that can be extremely painful...yet necessary. Good intentions won't save lives but a soundly based knowledge in the basic principles of medicine will. If you can't achieve that, you are needed elsewhere in society. This is a painful principle but definately not one worth getting all puffed up and upset about. There isn't a thing you can do about it.
     
  45. solid_confusion

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    You know what? You guys are right, if you can't hack it you need to go. Hmmm...maybe that's what one of our colleagues thought before he/she made this "drastic" decision. If only you all really knew our "many situations, incidents, and problems here", then you'd understand, so I guess I don't expect much from you guys.

    For the record, I'm in great academic standing...so I can handle the academics, but not sure if I can handle the B.S. here at Western University of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific. I guess B.S. comes with the territory when you come to this school at least...future COMPers, be preprared!!! It'll make you stronger when/if the time comes.
     
  46. osteodoc13

    osteodoc13 Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by solid_confusion:
    <strong>
    I remember during convocation a story we were told, a story about a nurse describing the stages of a physician, beginning as a first year and ending as the attending. The nurse described the "attitude change" of the physician...beginning as a compassionate, caring individual, and ending as a non-compassionate power-hungry physician. It seems like osteodoc fits this story pretty well.

    It also seems like this is how COMP is training us to think. Humanism? BS! I just hope I don't turn out the way some people in this thread are. No sympathy, no compassion. How saddening...guess I better get used to it. :confused: :confused: </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">WOW...what a difference one post makes!

    In my last post I was only referring to students who were "failing out" because of poor academics. It seems, though no one will elaborate, that there are students being dismissed for other reasons, reasons the rest of us are apparently destined to wonder about for the life of this thread. If these students are being dismissed for other reasons, then obviously they should be considered on a case-by-case basis.

    We have some in our class who probably should have been dismissed for non-academic reasons, of which I also won't elaborate. They went on in the clinical years to present our class and school in a very bad light at some prominent rotation sites, and jeopardized our prospects for future rotations in same. The school was too cowardly to stand up and dismiss them when they should, and now they will go out into the world and have patients place their trust in them. I'm sorry, but I take this profession very seriously, and we need to have standards of conduct AND academics.

    Again, I don't know the situation(s) which have you so upset, but my original post was just referring to academics.
     
  47. osteodoc13

    osteodoc13 Member

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    PS: thanks KP for sticking up for me...I can feel the love(less)!!! <img border="0" alt="[Lovey]" title="" src="graemlins/lovey.gif" />
     
  48. jhug

    jhug 1K Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> If only you all really knew our "many situations, incidents, and problems here", then you'd understand, so I guess I don't expect much from you guys.

    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With all due respect, not telling us what all these many problems are really doesn't help anyone understand what your situation is. Doesn't that totally negate the very reason for posting this topic???
    We see someone get dismissed for not passing-- makes sense. People are upset for 9am exams-- that's life in medical school. Until you are able to provide REAL problems that may need changing this post is dead. So my suggestion in respons to your question of what to do-- be specific with the many situations, incidents, and problems or leave it to the class where you are able to be more open about it.
     
  49. melancholy

    melancholy 1K Member

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    In regards to the 9am exam, the time of the exam was not important.. but rather recent events affecting members of the class that put in question whether or not the exam should have been taken that morning or postponed.

    From what I understand, it was discussed with students on Saturday what would have been a better day/time to postpone the test until but after looking at all the options (I'm not sure if it was brought up to make just one huge exam for Musculoskeletal), it was decided that although 9am Monday was not going to make a lot of people happy, it was probably the only time to take the exam given the circumstances.
     
  50. adismo

    adismo covered in moon dust

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    yea, anyone that read into all these posts and thought we were complaining about 9am exams is smoking some seriously high grade crack. i would have taken it at 8, no worries.

    meloncholy, havent seen star wars yet, but heard from reliable sources that the movie was "aayt"
     
  51. Slingblade the Surgeon

    Slingblade the Surgeon Senior Member

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    Surely one of you could log in under an assumed name and post the actual grievances in list form for us to clearly see. Or if someone wants to PM me the list I can post it for I have no fear of retribution.

    You know...Kinda like FOX, "We Report, You Decide"
     
  52. solid_confusion

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    Okay, I'm finally back. The statement below comes from another colleague in our class who is willing to shed some light of our situation:

    This is the very first time I've posted on SDN, but there is something I believe the entire medical profession should be aware of. I am a student at COMP. We are a DO school that supposedly teaches and prides itself in the essence of osteopathic philosophy. The events I will share with you all will prove completely contrary. Last week, one of our beloved classmates, I'll call him "Bob," committed suicide. For whatever reasons he decided to take his own life, be they school related, personal, or both, all of his friends can agree that school played some part in it. But honestly, school is hard for all of us&#8230;especially being in class from 8-5 with substandard faculty "teaching us." But what was different here was that Bob sought help from our administration, telling even the President of our school himself his dilemma. Nothing was done. Bob committed suicide last weekend, and so many of us were full of sadness, anger, and self-blame. Then on Monday our class was to take an exam, and the dean of our college came to speak with us at 8am, one hour before the exam, and stated that the exam was still to happen, and whoever took the test and failed&#8230;well&#8230;that was a risk to take. We did not have time to grieve for our classmate. As a side note, there were students around me crying as they were taking the exam. Luckily, our class pulled together and organized a bike/hike memorial for our overly athletic classmate. He would have loved the mountain we climbed&#8230;In addition, our class planned a memorial today 5-20-2002 at noon. At 1pm promptly, the formal part of the memorial had just finished. Classmates were hugging, talking about Bob, trying to bring some closure to this tragedy. NOW WHAT HAPPENED NEXT NOT ONLY SHOCKED AND ANGERED ME, BUT MADE ME REALIZE JUST HOW UNCOMPASSIONATE WESTERNU FACULTY AND STAFF ARE. One of our professors got on the microphone and stated that though he knows there is a memorial for Bob occurring, there was a make-up exam for a small number of students to be conducted in the same room the memorial was taking place. He asked us to disperse and when two minutes had passed, while tears were being shed and classmates were still hugging, the professor once again asked us to exit the room knowing that there was another free classroom just next door. I was appalled as I watched the flowers for Bob being carried away, the candles near his photograph being blown out&#8230;I have always stood behind my school when all my classmates had negative things to say about COMP. I would have something positive to say. I've run out of positive things to say. To make this point of the cold-hearted attitudes of the administration, a student in the class talked to the dean personally to let him know how we were forced to disperse in our time of remembrance. The dean had no sympathy and tried to draw parallels with Bob's death with working in the ER. I guess people die in the ER and we must "move on." Last time I checked, we are students at a DO school supposedly learning about humanism and medical ethics. I saw my classmate in tears after talking to the dean and listened to her story as she tried to compose herself after talking to the most uncaring man in the world. I am writing this because I don't know what else to do. We as a class have tried so hard to change things at our school. We've gone straight to the top, and nothing in terms of teaching and being an example of osteopathic principles is being implemented. The fact that our medical ethics course was only six hours long and our humanism in medicine class was only two, goes hand in hand with what our school stands for. With Bob's death, I have seen firsthand how unsympathetic and uncaring our school is. Think about this; when the New York 9/11 incident happened our dean said "We must move on." So of course, we took our gross anatomy exam the following Monday as planned. When another student in the 2nd year class died in an accident, the message from the president of the school was "This is a very valuable lesson we've all learned today." I'll tell you what I learned; our med school stops for no one. With Bob's death, we grabbed our number 2 pencils and bubbled in scantrons as planned. As an osteopathic medical student, life doesn't always happen as planned. I have also learned that humanity, compassion, and viewing the person as an entire entity, which includes emotions, depression, and grief as part of the differential diagnosis, is part of being a good doctor. I've learned this all from watching the majority of staff and faculty at COMP, and then striving to turn 180 degrees and emulate the complete opposite of anything that they attempt to teach by example. I want to end by saying that this weeks events have hugely impacted me and have shed light on COMP. The administration is so secretive about so many events that happen at our school, and they refuse to see that Bob's death had anything to do with school. They also refuse to admit the attrition rate at our school is grossly high, our school morale is plummeting lower and lower, and that they are teaching us by example to be cold, uncaring, uncompassionate doctors. Is that what being a graduate at WesternU will mean?
     

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