Comparison of Psychiatry Residency programs in Michigan 2013-2014

Jan 4, 2014
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I am looking to create a pros and cons list for all of the psychiatry residency programs in Michigan (both MD & DO). There are 9 total programs. If you have ever had a psychiatry rotation or interview at one of these hospitals please chime in.

Wayne State University/DMC:
pros -

cons -

Henry Ford:
pros -

cons -
Detroit Wayne County Health Authority (DO only):
pros -

cons -
St. Mary Mercy:
pros -

cons -

Michigan State University (Dually accredited):
pros -

cons -

University of Michigan:
pros -

cons -

Pine Rest Christian Mental Health (Dually Accredited):
pros -

cons -

Western Michigan University:
pros -

cons -

Central Michigan University:
pros -

cons -
 
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Nov 8, 2013
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I'm only familiar with one program on the list and that is University of Michigan. It is definitely one of the top 10 programs in the country (in my opinion of course), and I found almost nothing I didn't like about the program except the weather. But, you obviously have personal reasons to be in Michigan so weather is probably a non-issue for you so I'd say: Pros - amazing program, has everything for everyone & Cons - none.
 
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OP
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Jan 4, 2014
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Thank you for your responses. Psychedelicious, from what I hear uofm seems to be an excellent program - I agree.
And Shikima I didn't know CMU was opening up a new program. Thanks for the info.
 
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Jack Napier

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I'm only familiar with one program on the list and that is University of Michigan. It is definitely one of the top 10 programs in the country (in my opinion of course), and I found almost nothing I didn't like about the program except the weather. But, you obviously have personal reasons to be in Michigan so weather is probably a non-issue for you so I'd say: Pros - amazing program, has everything for everyone & Cons - none.
I think this is a bit of an overstatement.
 
OP
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Jan 4, 2014
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I'm only familiar with one program on the list and that is University of Michigan. It is definitely one of the top 10 programs in the country (in my opinion of course), and I found almost nothing I didn't like about the program except the weather. But, you obviously have personal reasons to be in Michigan so weather is probably a non-issue for you so I'd say: Pros - amazing program, has everything for everyone & Cons - none.
Can you be more specific with regard to the pros and cons at u of m? How is the teaching and didactics? What about the lifestyle of the residents? How many hours a week do they work? Is there time for hobbies and family? What besides their research reputation and fellowship opportunities makes them "top 10?" Thanks!
 

BS81

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UMich > Wayne State/DMC => Henry Ford => MSU > Western Michigan > St. Mary's >>> all others are brand new programs. UMich is a top 20 program in the country in terms of rep, research, etc. A lot of resources, C/L heavy. Only weak point would be somewhat limited exposure to the severely mentally ill patients since the area is fairly affluent. The next 3 are all close in quality and solid mid tier programs that will train you well. Wayne has more research opportunities, Henry Ford has more interesting opportunities for outpatient psych. Inner-city Detroit pathology can be overwhelming for some.
 

OldPsychDoc

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UMich > Wayne State/DMC => Henry Ford => MSU > Western Michigan > St. Mary's >>> all others are brand new programs. UMich is a top 20 program in the country in terms of rep, research, etc. A lot of resources, C/L heavy. Only weak point would be somewhat limited exposure to the severely mentally ill patients since the area is fairly affluent. The next 3 are all close in quality and solid mid tier programs that will train you well. Wayne has more research opportunities, Henry Ford has more interesting opportunities for outpatient psych. Inner-city Detroit pathology can be overwhelming for some.
Disagree about your weak point above--Washtenaw County CMH gives you plenty of exposure to severe mental illness (without the complete sense of hopelessness and powerlessness re: inner city Detroit, as you mention above), and is well integrated with the program.
 

BS81

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Disagree about your weak point above--Washtenaw County CMH gives you plenty of exposure to severe mental illness (without the complete sense of hopelessness and powerlessness re: inner city Detroit, as you mention above), and is well integrated with the program.
This is second hand info, but when I was applying, someone a couple years ahead of me told me a different story. He was quite annoyed with the psychotic/violent patients being blocked by nursing staff and sent off to different area hospitals. Plenty of old ladies with depression waiting for ECT, though. :shrug: Maybe the CMH system does a great job keeping people out of the hospital which is good. The unit has lots of depression and personality disorders and hence a lot of opportunities for psychotherapy upon discharge. This is probably a positive for a lot of people, just not for me.
I think it's a great program in many areas, but you will not see as much of the acuity that you would get at programs in Chicago, St. Louis or Detroit.
 

SteinUmStein

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Re: U of M - There are psychotic and occasionally violent patients on the unit (although the ICU area in the back is very secure and every possible safety precaution is taken), but you are correct that most patients have mood disorders and/or personality disorders. I think that's true for most inpatient units though. You will see plenty of psychosis between 9C and the VA, and Detroit is close enough that we regularly feel its presence via untreated schizophrenics from Wayne County. I don't think I've seen a patient blocked for being psychotic or violent, although insurance issues may result in patients being bounced around between hospitals in various counties - but I think this occurs everywhere.
 

Shikima

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UMich > Wayne State/DMC => Henry Ford => MSU > Western Michigan > St. Mary's >>> all others are brand new programs. UMich is a top 20 program in the country in terms of rep, research, etc. A lot of resources, C/L heavy. Only weak point would be somewhat limited exposure to the severely mentally ill patients since the area is fairly affluent. The next 3 are all close in quality and solid mid tier programs that will train you well. Wayne has more research opportunities, Henry Ford has more interesting opportunities for outpatient psych. Inner-city Detroit pathology can be overwhelming for some.
OP;
I trained in a program that was very similar to 'inner-city Detroit pathology' - I wouldn't recommend it because it gives you a narrow focus which only focuses on CMI, and doesn't train you to work with the walking wounded/walking well. Additionally considerations - from my experience, I had at my program were the lack of faculty (heavy service driven), and lack of resources to teach about psychodynamic psychotherapy (which is something you really can't learn on your own).
 

Chimed

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Disagree about your weak point above--Washtenaw County CMH gives you plenty of exposure to severe mental illness (without the complete sense of hopelessness and powerlessness re: inner city Detroit, as you mention above), and is well integrated with the program.
Yes. There is a good exposure to psychotic patients both on the units and through CMH. Their psych ER (PES) experience also exposes you to a LOT of psychosis and acute issues. That was a few years ago, so I suppose it could have changed. If severe mental illness is your thing, you can tailor your 4th year to see more CMH patients.
 
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billypilgrim37

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Compared to Wayne State and HF, Uof M certainly was more hoity toity. That doesn't mean there's not plenty to learn on, but the %Medicaid population is certainly lower than many other nearby places. One could easily argue that was a strength (maybe other programs are too high for balanced training), and certainly someone looking for a community psych focus could go to UofM and be fine. Regardless, it was a place that prioritized teaching and did not have an overwhelming case load.

Much of the psychotic patient blocking the one poster may have seen in the PES was because many were shipped back to Wayne County for insurance reasons, not because the nurses didn't want them.
 
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Dec 9, 2013
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I'm only familiar with the University of Michigan, and, like psychedelicious, I thought it was a rock-solid program. There was nothing I disliked about UMich. Moreover, the residents were incredibly cohesive and relatable, and both the program director and the chair (who spent a considerable amount of time with the applicants) were remarkably down-to-earth. I'll try to write a full-review at some point, but the short, Cliffsnotes-version = I loved it!
 

Shikima

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One word of caution, programs are trying to sell themselves. Some are genuine, others not so much. Also, one must consider that 1 residency environment may not be the right one for everyone.
 

OldPsychDoc

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One word of caution, programs are trying to sell themselves. Some are genuine, others not so much. Also, one must consider that 1 residency environment may not be the right one for everyone.
Agreed, but I would argue that it is much more difficult for a program to "pretend" and sell something that isn't truly there than it is for an applicant to look good for a couple of hours.
 
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Jack Napier

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One word of caution, programs are trying to sell themselves. Some are genuine, others not so much. Also, one must consider that 1 residency environment may not be the right one for everyone.
Agree, all that glitters is not gold!
 

flight24

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Bump. Other than MSU (which is dually boarded), are any of the other schools COMLEX accepting?
 

DrMeowMeow

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Yes, I'm also curious which of the schools are COMLEX accepting
 

hoodwinkd

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All are COMLEX accepting, but some more DO friendly than others. Henry Ford, DMC, Western, St Mary, MSU, Pine Rest all extended interviews with just COMLEX. I did not apply to Michigan (currently 2 DOs out of a class of about 40) or Central Michigan (which is brand new and currently only has PGY1 class) so cannot speak for those.
 
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I've heard nothing but horrible, horrible things about Detroit Wayne County Health Authority from a number of their current residents.
 

peppy

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I've heard nothing but horrible, horrible things about Detroit Wayne County Health Authority from a number of their current residents.
What kind of problems have you heard about?
 

waterflying

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Bump. Can anyone comment on Michigan State University's program in East Lansing? Any reviews or feedback on it? Everyone mostly commented on University of Michigan, however not much was said about MSU. How does MSU rank compared to the other Michigan programs? Thanks
 

meowkittymeow

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So its pretty obvious that UofM is the best program in Michigan, but any thoughts on how these other programs compare to each other? Henry Ford vs DMC?

I am looking to create a pros and cons list for all of the psychiatry residency programs in Michigan (both MD & DO). There are 9 total programs. If you have ever had a psychiatry rotation or interview at one of these hospitals please chime in.

Wayne State University/DMC:
pros -

cons -

Henry Ford:
pros -

cons -
Detroit Wayne County Health Authority (DO only):
pros -

cons -
St. Mary Mercy:
pros -

cons -

Michigan State University (Dually accredited):
pros -

cons -

University of Michigan:
pros -

cons -

Pine Rest Christian Mental Health (Dually Accredited):
pros -

cons -

Western Michigan University:
pros -

cons -

Central Michigan University:
pros -

cons -
 

OldPsychDoc

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DrMeowMeow

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Is the general consensus on competitiveness and/or quality of program like this?

UM>MSU>DMC>Henry Ford>Pine Rest>St Mary's

Let me know if you guys agree or disagree with that order
 
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meowkittymeow

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Sep 26, 2015
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Is the general consensus on competitiveness and/or quality of program like this?

UM>MSU>DMC>Henry Ford>Pine Rest>St Mary's

Let me know if you guys agree or disagree with that order
Why do you think DMC >HF? I don't really know how to differentiate the 2...mind you I know Wayne grads I met on interviews that said they didn't even bother applying to Henry Ford but couldn't really back that statement up
 

DrMeowMeow

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Why do you think DMC >HF? I don't really know how to differentiate the 2...mind you I know Wayne grads I met on interviews that said they didn't even bother applying to Henry Ford but couldn't really back that statement up
I have heard from both sides why they chose one program and not the other. DMC has fellowships, train at a VA hospital, and is more affiliated with Wayne state university. DMC people will say Henry Ford has too much turnover of faculty and they would rather have the stability of knowing they will have the same PD throughout their education. They also say that Henry ford's patient population is not as complex and severe as theirs so they don't learn as much.

Henry ford people say they have no problems with finding fellowships despite not having any. They will say that DMC has too many residents making the program not as tight knit, and that DMC gives you too many patients and therefore more work hours.

There definitely seems to be a rivalry between the two programs for some reason lol
 
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May 26, 2016
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I can speak to Henry Ford's faculty turnover. The new program director has been noted to be controlling, lack of support, and has hang ups with certain residents; generally those displaying signs of confidence. The program has had approx 3 transfers since the new PD took over. ACGME reports that 2/3 of residents fear being able to raise any issues of concern according to new survey data. Steer clear until the dust settles.
 
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HotandCold

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I can speak to Henry Ford's faculty turnover. The new program director has been noted to be controlling, lack of support, and has hang ups with certain residents; generally those displaying signs of confidence. The program has had approx 3 transfers since the new PD took over. ACGME reports that 2/3 of residents fear being able to raise any issues of concern according to new survey data. Steer clear until the dust settles.
^^Can anyone comment on this?
It's completely made up and malicious. The degree to which this is a lie is almost frightening, which makes me think it's someone with a serious grudge against the program. They made and account and posted one thing and one thing only. The PD at Henry Ford is someone you can complain to about almost anything, and he'll be receptive and try to implement changes. That includes problems with other services even.

The lack of salaried attendings at the Detroit Wayne County program is the biggest problem, but they're working on the program really hard. Not the best teaching in general. Not a complete train wreck.
 
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