competition in PT school

[freddydpt]

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Hi Everyone,

I was wondering what the current PT's or PT students feel like the competition is at their PT school. I saw a post just now on a premedical forum that says:

"A word of advice, I was in your same position this time last year. I had been out of school for seven years before starting med school. Everybody is in the same boat, and there are people with any number of non-science degrees in your class. Don't worry about competing with your classmates, you all are smart enough to be here or you would not have been accepted. Most schools are P/F or some form of that, so don't be consumed by grades. My emphasis is learning the material for the boards not the class, there are differences.

Try to support your classmates and don't become cut-throat, my class is very good about emailing study guides to the entire class or sometimes we break things up and work on them only to share it with the class. It is a much better atmosphere, not everybody is going to try to get the same residency as you."

I WISH my program had a system like that because it seemed like everyone was out for theirselves. Did anyone go to a school where the students shared study guides like that?

 

[MSHARO]

Yeah, at WashU I kinda felt like that. I never felt like we were competing against anyone else, just ourselves. We all wanted to do well and get good grades, but there was no class ranking etc. You knew who was doing well but it definately wasn't cut-throat. Most of us were too busy trying to stay afloat than to worry about competition with anyone else. Maybe it was just me, but I never felt any sort of pressure and everyone I knew shared notes, study guides, etc. There may have been a few idiots that tried to make themselves out to be the best etc, but that was probably less than ~5 out of 75.

For example, I had a very strong anatomy background so I used to lead lab practical study sessions before exams and gave everyone detailed notes/handouts etc. And before other practical exams we would get together and share tips and info, so everyone would do well. This was pretty common.

 

[DOctorJay]

We all helped each other out in my class. We formed study groups and ran study sessions that anyone could attend. If we found an easy way to remember something we'd share that as well. It really depends on the atmosphere of the class and the attitudes of those who make it up. Hopefully you'll have a good bunch but just try to set the tone for everyone to follow and you'll get along fine.

-J

 

[merlin17]

My MD program is exactly like the quote describes. People are fantastic. Helps that we have no grades first two years, and no class rankings 🙂

 

[DocWagner]

My PT program at Indiana U. was not cut throat, in fact it was a ton of fun, and I don't remember studying very hard except for Neuroanatomy.

Medical School was VERY cut throat as we had a ranking system which bottlenecked at a 3.5 GPA...so a 3.4 medical school GPA would mean you are ranked 120 of 200 students. Then there are 3rd and 4th year clinicals with alot of SECRET gunners pushing to impress the residency directors of their liking.
Pimping of medical students (years 3 and 4) is nonexistant in PT school, for the most part.
You will survive and enjoy it. I loved medical school...best choice for me.

 

[SashaDPT]

Doc, that is very interesting to hear about difference between med school and PT school. I found my PT program to be rather relaxed, and you are right, some classes don;t force to to study too hard. It all depends on the student, I guess. We had a few kids in my class break down during finals. We were not ranked, but how can you rank a 26 people class. Considering medical school right now, I find it interesting to hear the difference. When you say "pimp" what do you mean. And as far as competition, is it the - stab you in the back and act like I don;t care - kind or just people trying to outstudy one another? Either way, interesting comperisson.

 

[freddydpt]

My PT program at Indiana U. was not cut throat, in fact it was a ton of fun, and I don't remember studying very hard except for Neuroanatomy.

Medical School was VERY cut throat as we had a ranking system which bottlenecked at a 3.5 GPA...so a 3.4 medical school GPA would mean you are ranked 120 of 200 students. Then there are 3rd and 4th year clinicals with alot of SECRET gunners pushing to impress the residency directors of their liking.
Pimping of medical students (years 3 and 4) is nonexistant in PT school, for the most part.
You will survive and enjoy it. I loved medical school...best choice for me.

You're scarin' me doc 🙂 My PT program was inredibly intense and if you didn't spend at least 80+ hours/wk studying you were almost guaranteed to be eliminated from the program. Tests were hard, practicals were hard (I failed 3 of them in my first year). It was anything but relaxed as other people on the board describe their program. Also, what do you mean by pimping of students... cause I know I was tossed around a bit when I did my acute clinical. I know med school is hard and all but I worked my A$$ off throughout PT school... I also worked about 80 hrs a week to try to subsidize costs.

Do you have any golden advice for us future med students on the board?

 

[Skialta]

My personal perception after just finishing M1 is that medical school is much more demanding than PT school. There is just plain more to learn, and in PT school you didn't have Pharm. When I was in PT school I don't remember a lot of people talking about failing courses which is something that definitely happens in medical school. We had a couple of classes this year that only had a final exam, that is a little pressure for you. All that being said, you just plow through and you will do just fine.

 

[freddydpt]

My personal perception after just finishing M1 is that medical school is much more demanding than PT school. There is just plain more to learn, and in PT school you didn't have Pharm. When I was in PT school I don't remember a lot of people talking about failing courses which is something that definitely happens in medical school. We had a couple of classes this year that only had a final exam, that is a little pressure for you. All that being said, you just plow through and you will do just fine.

Did a lot of peple fail classes where you go to med school? What courses were typically the ones that got'em?

 

[DocWagner]

My medical school was huge (230) so there were all kinds of people, and the testing hysteria seemed to spread.

PIMPING...eh eh eh, oh you will learn this term, you will learn it well. When attendings or residents ask you any and all questions, in other words "read my mind", in front of everyone. Doesn't happen until the 3rd year primarily and it is not as bad as in previous decades (from stories).

PT and Medschool are different in that you could study your ass off in PT school to get an A or not miss any, what ever. THere just weren't that many classes in which there was literally a ton of memorization or difficult concepts, lots of labs yes, but it was totally different. In med school I found my self studying my ass off to learn concepts and the overwhelming amount of information...just to stay afloat. Each school is different on how they approach exam week and testing...that influences stress.
My school, since it was so friggin large, had TONS of drama, about 5% of the class dropped out or failed. We had at least 3 in the first month. We also had a guy FLIP OUT and tackled a security officer.

Go rent the movie "Gross Anatomy", I think it is as close as it gets.

Or read "the House of God"...

 

[Skialta]

I think that biochem and histology were the biggest culprets, and maybe genetics. It is easy to get behind and when there are only two tests you can really put yourself in a hole. We did not have a large number of people fail classes probably 5 or so (not exactly sure) out of 101 students. We also had somebody drop out after the first block.

My advice to you would be not to enter medical school thinking you are going to dominate like you did in PT school. I had that perception also, but you will quickly be humbled by the ultra genius. I thought I was a pretty fast test taker, but I had a final the other day, 50 questions and I was on #29 when two guys finished. The best thing to do is study consistently, I try to study every day because I am still working so I have to pace myself or it is too easy to fall behind. It worked well, I honored between 1/3 to 1/2 of my classes(H/P/F). In some blocks it is better to choose the classes that really interest you or you really want to know the material like Path, and work harder on those classes and get by on some of the fluff classes.

Hope this helps

 

[freddydpt]

Oh boy I totally did NOT dominate PT school! I don't intend to dominate med school either, but I've never been the worst at what I do either.

Do you mind if I ask what PT schools everyone went to and what med schools they attend?

Thanks!

 

[DocWagner]

Indiana University...University of Health Sciences (now Kansas City U. of Medicine and Biosciences)

 

[MSHARO]

I think that how the transition to med school will be is also somewhat dependent on what PT school you went to as well. At my school, there were lots of people that were living from exam to exam in certain classes. We had 3-4 people (out of 75) drop out in the first year because it was too intense, and 1 other failed a couple classes and had to take the whole second year over. They were really trying to put the screws to us. VERY VERY rarely did anyone get all the questions right and most of us were studying 50-80 hours per week in addition to 40 hours of class time. It was very common for people to fail tests and practicals (at least 5-10 per exam). Overall, I think the class GPA was probably between 2.7-2.9. And this is from a pretty bright bunch of people who almost all could have easily gotten into med school. So I think it kinda hard to compare how PT school will relate to med school. For example, the anatomy instructors and TA's (who often taught the med school as well) told us that our class was MUCH harder than the med schools. So it is all relative. For those who had laid back programs, they may have to step it up. For those in intense programs who had to study a ton, it probably won't change a whole lot.

 

[freddydpt]

We had 3-4 people (out of 75) drop out in the first year because it was too intense, and 1 other failed a couple classes and had to take the whole second year over. They were really trying to put the screws to us. VERY VERY rarely did anyone get all the questions right and most of us were studying 50-80 hours per week in addition to 40 hours of class time. It was very common for people to fail tests and practicals (at least 5-10 per exam). Overall, I think the class GPA was probably between 2.7-2.9. And this is from a pretty bright bunch of people who almost all could have easily gotten into med school. So I think it kinda hard to compare how PT school will relate to med school.

Thanks MSHARO... this makes me feel a lot better as your program sounds very similar to mine. (Except we had a few more people who repeated a year and/or dropped out) It got me worried that everyone was saying how much easier PT school was compared to med school. I have a lot of med school friends at BU and I know I studied a BUTTLOAD more than they did in my first year.

 

[DocWagner]

I have to reiterate, PT school is totally different than medical school, far more info and more detail oriented...except for musculoskeletal anatomy. By the time you are a 3rd year medical student, you will forget you were even a PT, you will be so deeply entrenched into stuff like OB and IM that have zero to do with PT.
It is to bad you guys didn't decide to be DO's so that you could enhance your manual skills a bit and continue to get paid for it.

 

[freddydpt]

DocWagner,

How come I can't get paid for manual skills as a physician? My first line of defense for treatment for a headache will always be manual therapy.

BTW, I completed secondary applications to two DO schools (9 primaries) and never even received a rejection letter, let alone an interview invitation. Even though I received 14 MD interviews. Go figure!

 

[MSHARO]

freddydpt,

Yeah, I almost went to BU. I heard the program there was tough, but good. But hey, if it wasn't tough, why bother...? One of the main factors that led me away from there was the fact that it was a DPT program already. I just couldn't justify spending that much more. Plus, living in St. Louis is a little cheaper. But damn...I almost cried when I turned it down. I love Boston!

As for classes being different in med school, again...I think it depends on where you went to PT school. I would find it very hard to believe that some the courses (especially first year ones) such as anatomy and neuroscience can be that much different than med school ones. At WashU, we used the same text books as the med students and some pretty tough professors. As I mentioned before, often we had the same ones as the med school program, and I think our med school program is pretty good.

I do agree that many of the second year courses and some of the first year ones will be much different. For example, we had a pretty tough pathophysiology course that was run by one of the schools PhD physiologists, but when we covered the pathology portion, most often it was taught by WashU/Barnes physicians. The differences were that when it came to treatment, they often geared it to aspects more relevant to physical therapy. In med school, it will obviously be more geared to the cellular level and more towards the medical management of these problems.

So I really feel that it is impossible to say that med school will be so much harder than PT school; it will just be hard in a different way. For me, I hope it will actually be more interesting. Other than the orthopedic/musculoskeletal portion, I got sick of hearing about how to treat problems from a PT aspect. But that is just me personally. I was much more interested in the cellular/molecular level and that was one of my reasons, among several, why I decided to go back to med school in the first place.

The reason DO school wasn't for me was primarily because of the manual approach. It just isn't my style. I use it relatively sparingly. Except however for headaches/cervical problems and some other post-op stuff (jt mobs), etc. But for me, it is just a means to eventually being able to do more exercise, or to do it more effectively. Plus, my father in law is a fairly well known DO and I couldn't have given in to him!!! Just kidding!

 

[DocWagner]

What fields are you two interested in?
Once you are in your 3rd, 4th or residency years you will realize that the speed of practice and environment you work in will likely tie your hands for treating headaches with manual skills...plus you will be rusty. I am in the ED and you can't use manual skills to treat headaches of tension origin, and the differential for headache is so varied that the laying of hands likely won't work for the pathology.
As for getting paid for manual treatment...it just won't happen, the reality is that you (as a MD) will likely lose confidence in your skills and how do you bill for it? Hell you may wish to go into orthopedic surgery, IM, or EM and there isn't too many OA releases done in those fields, bigger and better money elsewhere. Many DO's don't even use as much manual techniques as they could. Oh well.

 

[freddydpt]

DocWagner,

I have no idea what field I'm interested in just yet as I haven't been through rotations.

I got a neat little trick for you to treat tension headaches and I have NO clue why it works but it does. Deep soft tissue to the forearm extensor group on the contralateral side to the headache (it will be really sore and tight). It was taught to me by someone in acupuncture school and it's never failed for me in the clinic. Go figure! Granted it treats the symptoms and not the cause but hey... it works for pain relief.

I also plan on working summers and a few hours a week doing some per diem work so I don't think I'll be all that out of practice. (don't forget about massages at parties 😉 ) Or then again, I could be a completely naive kid that has no clue what he's saying cause he hasn't gone through med school. We'll see

 

[MSHARO]

I am definately interested in ortho. I don't think that I would be going back to med school if I wasn't. I just can't get enough of it! If it wasn't that, it would probably be neurosurgery then IM/FP with a sports fellowship.

 

[DocWagner]

You may be able to work...I chose not to, just to allow MY TIME to be mine alone. It was probably a good idea too, as I was more social and studied more, which was cool. I just didn't want to work as a PT anymore. But I did want to use the manipulation I was learning...so I was torn.

 

[GlassyCat]

My PT program at Indiana U. was not cut throat, in fact it was a ton of fun, and I don't remember studying very hard except for Neuroanatomy.

Medical School was VERY cut throat as we had a ranking system which bottlenecked at a 3.5 GPA...so a 3.4 medical school GPA would mean you are ranked 120 of 200 students. Then there are 3rd and 4th year clinicals with alot of SECRET gunners pushing to impress the residency directors of their liking.
Pimping of medical students (years 3 and 4) is nonexistant in PT school, for the most part.
You will survive and enjoy it. I loved medical school...best choice for me.

Sorry, I am new to this board. I am guessing you did your PT degree before you when to medicine? Did you practice PT before you go into medicine or did you skip on straight to med school?

I am from Canada. My PT program which I am going to start is only two years (full years; no break clinical rotation included). How long are those in the States?

 

[dpt06eas]

My current program is very laid back as far as competition goes - contrary to popular belief - so I've heard. The greatest competition would be with yourself trying to get your A. We share materials as well, we all want each other to do well.
My program is a 3 year DPT, with one 5 week break and 38 weeks of clinical education. Others vary in terms of clinical rotation breakdown.

 

[fozziewan]

I'm finishing up my first semester of a 3yr DPT program at Sage Graduate school in Troy, NY. I'll be honest, at first I was cocky and barely studied. Aced my first Gross lecture exam and practical, Pathophys exam and did very well on my first biomechanics tests. That all changed, not just with myself but my class as a whole. We are the guinea pig class. 15 credits this summer. 01 June to 12 August, 5 classes, 15 weeks of material crammed into 10. Its been fun though. I'm really enjoying it but, I am working my butt off now. My class size is 22. 4 guys, the rest very lovely ladies. 😎
I still have an aspiration to pursue a DO degree. I'm debating on whether or not I should start the path now or wait until after finishing my DPT program. Any suggestions?

 

[delicatefade]

Depends on how much you like PT...