Compilation of MSTP Programs with average GPA/MCAT/Ranking/GPP/Stipend

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kfre2435

kfre2435

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I compiled a list of MSTP progams to help me with my search. I thought it could be of use to you. I would appreciate feedback, especially if someone finds a discrepancy or wants to add information

Here's the link.
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Omg Ty so much been looking for something like this.

For some reason it doesn't open up on my phone.
 
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Thanks so much! Assuming the data is all correct, this is extremely helpful!
 
Neuronix said:
Nice list :thumbup:. Where did you get this data?
Click to expand...

The vast majority of the data derives from each program's website. Some of the stipend info comes from this site, and a slim few of the average GPA/MCAT scores are from this list crossed checked with other similar sites. I realize that's not for MD/PhD and thus want to update if possible. The NIH had a list (although possible outdated) of GPP programs.

With how scattered the info is, this is the best I could do.
 
kfre2435 said:
The vast majority of the data derives from each program's website.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize that so many schools posted this data. When I tried looking in the past I couldn't find nearly this many. Maybe that's changed over the years or I wasn't looking hard enough.

Either way, I would denote the data that is for MD-only in that file with a * or some such. These GPA and MCAT values can be pretty different for state schools that are very in-state selective for MD but do not have in-state bias for MD/PhD.
 
Neuronix said:
I didn't realize that so many schools posted this data. When I tried looking in the past I couldn't find nearly this many. Maybe that's changed over the years or I wasn't looking hard enough.

Either way, I would denote the data that is for MD-only in that file with a * or some such. These GPA and MCAT values can be pretty different for state schools that are very in-state selective for MD but do not have in-state bias for MD/PhD.
Click to expand...

That would have been preferred, but I found those numbers months ago so I'm not readily sure what comes from where. It should be easy enough to tell by looking through the list. I will update this weekend when I have time.
 
One correction:

UTSW has stipend of $28000 according to the website and they do fully support NIH GPP or OxCam for Track 1 students though this may be on a case-by-case basis.
 
SBR249 said:
One correction:

UTSW has stipend of $28000 according to the website and they do fully support NIH GPP or OxCam for Track 1 students though this may be on a case-by-case basis.
Click to expand...

Updated. Some of my the information is always changing, and I haven't gone to the unknown GPPs yet.

Also updated Colorado stipend and number of participants at the request of vitalamine.

K31 said:
What do you mean by "med consideration"? Is it whether they consider medical students for admission to the MSTP?
Click to expand...

Med consideration is whether or not admissions considers you for regular medical school if you are denied acceptance to MSTP. Sorry that was not clearer.
 
I will add non-MSTP MD/PhD programs, but only by request.
 
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I'm just floored that JHU's average GPA for MSTP is 3.97. For some reason that seems funny to me; but alas I checked their website and that's what it says. Holy hell.
 
sweet list. I don't think you should change anything but as has been stated other times, NY (maybe other states too?) stipends mean very little until you consider the subsidized housing that different schools offer.

Also, did you clarify if the MCAT/GPAs listed are those of "accepted students" or "entering students"? Entering student's stats are usually (especially not at the top top school) lower than the accepted. It is annoying how US News always lists "accepted" student stats (or at least they did the year I was applying).
 
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KevAquarius said:
I'm just floored that JHU's average GPA for MSTP is 3.97. For some reason that seems funny to me; but alas I checked their website and that's what it says. Holy hell.
Click to expand...

lol of the 8 people they admitted, 7 must have had 4.0s and another had a 3.9. im sure no one likes him/her.
 
All the MCAT/GPAs are for the MD/PhD program, but those could vary by class or year. Do not base your decisions solely on those. This is just to give you a sense of all the MSTP programs. If you are interested in a particular program, I strongly urge you to check their website.

StilgarMD said:
add Rutgers/UMDNJ's MD/PhD program
Click to expand...

They had little-to-no information about the program, so I emailed them. I'll update when they get back to me.
 
StilgarMD said:
lol of the 8 people they admitted, 7 must have had 4.0s and another had a 3.9. im sure no one likes him/her.
Click to expand...

Well, actually there is hope for mortals. If 6 of the 8 had 4.0s then two people could be below that: (4*6+3.9+3.85)/8= 3.969

24thGrade said:
sweet list. I don't think you should change anything but as has been stated other times, NY (maybe other states too?) stipends mean very little until you consider the subsidized housing that different schools offer.
Click to expand...

Very true, but I wanted to make the list as straight-forward as possible. I highly recommend people looking at the program's websites and reading what they say. Details like that are missed in this list.

Also, no one should be basing their decision on stipend. If you're going into MD/PhD for the money, you're going to have a bad time.

24thGrade said:
Also, did you clarify if the MCAT/GPAs listed are those of "accepted students" or "entering students"? Entering student's stats are usually (especially not at the top top school) lower than the accepted. It is annoying how US News always lists "accepted" student stats (or at least they did the year I was applying).
Click to expand...

Good point. It varied by school as I look back. Hopkins lists matriculate data while Penn lists applicant GPAs. Again, I would check the websites of the schools you're interested in.

Each school, though, states that the range was large on all their accepted applicants.
 
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when you find the time, you should add a "Average graduation time" column. i remember from reading some of Neuronix's stuff that there are some programs where it takes much longer.
 
all the more reason for the central Data sheet! it wont' be an easily located Stat, but i think its worth putting on the sheet. im not suggesting he do it all, but when it comes time for me to apply with in the next year, ill be adding things too if this doc is still around.
 
K31 said:
Programs are going to be much less likely to advertise that than they are admission stats. I don't recall any programs reporting that when I was applying (which, granted, was a long time ago).
Click to expand...

Programs are simply not straightforward about these numbers. I wouldn't believe anything that is reported, though they will likely not report them anyway.

See my blog for more discussion: http://www.neuronix.org
 
Neuronix said:
Programs are simply not straightforward about these numbers. I wouldn't believe anything that is reported, though they will likely not report them anyway.

See my blog for more discussion: http://www.neuronix.org
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of this. My program keeps track of total time-to-degree and tells the students (at least they tell us the number that they calculated for the last MSTP grant renewal, which sounds reasonable based on what I've observed). I'm pretty sure the applicants aren't told, although it is pretty much on par for the number that is thrown around as the national average.
 
Thanks for all the work compiling this!

Would you mind posting the direct link to the spreadsheet? I'd like to play around with the data in an excel form.
 
Neuronix said:
Programs are simply not straightforward about these numbers. I wouldn't believe anything that is reported, though they will likely not report them anyway.

See my blog for more discussion: http://www.neuronix.org
Click to expand...

Most did not provide the information other than the 2-4-2 "plan", and there are multiple ways to skew the data.

StilgarMD said:
all the more reason for the central Data sheet! it wont' be an easily located Stat, but i think its worth putting on the sheet. im not suggesting he do it all, but when it comes time for me to apply with in the next year, ill be adding things too if this doc is still around.
Click to expand...

Well if you find anything, let us know. I am more than willing to add info to this sheet if people want. It was just a lot of work to make it in the first place!

staphkills said:
Thanks for all the work compiling this!

Would you mind posting the direct link to the spreadsheet? I'd like to play around with the data in an excel form.
Click to expand...

PM me your email and I'll send you it as an excel file.
 
From L to R on the spreadsheet:
UT Houston: 55, 5, 3.7, 32.4, $26,000 (MS)/$29,000 (GS), med consideration separate, GPP unknown, average time taken - 7.3 years, 132 applications, and interviewed 60 in 2009. (http://mdphd.uth.tmc.edu/faq.html)

UT Medical Branch: Unranked this year (last year, ~55), 8, 3.7*, 31* (*med school stats), $27000, med consideration separate, GPP unknown, 132 applications, ? interviewed. (From: https://www.aamc.org/download/161872/data/table33-mdphd-appmat-state-sex.pdf)
 
Unfortunately I feel that I can't endorse this data without reference information and without clear denotation of which GPAs and MCATs are for the MD or MD/PhD programs and whether they are accepted or matriculated statistics.

If someone wants to go through the data and add references and clarify the data, they can feel free and then I would be much happier recommending this as a resource. It would be best to add the website or book the data is taken from and the day it was referenced.
 
I expanded it to include more necessary information.

nysw said:
From L to R on the spreadsheet:
UT Houston: 55, 5, 3.7, 32.4, $26,000 (MS)/$29,000 (GS), med consideration separate, GPP unknown, average time taken - 7.3 years, 132 applications, and interviewed 60 in 2009. (http://mdphd.uth.tmc.edu/faq.html)

UT Medical Branch: Unranked this year (last year, ~55), 8, 3.7*, 31* (*med school stats), $27000, med consideration separate, GPP unknown, 132 applications, ? interviewed. (From: https://www.aamc.org/download/161872/data/table33-mdphd-appmat-state-sex.pdf)
Click to expand...

Added. Thank you so very much.

Neuronix said:
Unfortunately I feel that I can't endorse this data without reference information and without clear denotation of which GPAs and MCATs are for the MD or MD/PhD programs and whether they are accepted or matriculated statistics.

If someone wants to go through the data and add references and clarify the data, they can feel free and then I would be much happier recommending this as a resource. It would be best to add the website or book the data is taken from and the day it was referenced.
Click to expand...

I completely understand and would be hesitant too.

The references by-and-large are the MD/PhD websites. Where class numbers are not listed, one can simply count the current students, etc. A quick search did not show any of the GPA/MCAT to be correct... If someone wants to help with this, please do. I am pulling 12 hour days at my summer research internship and am pressed for time.

Accepted/matriculated also needs to be looked at. That never occurred to me when making the initial list.

Again, I would love some help on this so it can help all of us.
 
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I'm a bit late, but just wanted to add my anonymous online gratitude to you for sharing this list!

Also, I'm surprised that the MCAT for UCLA/Caltech is on the low side (33)-- is this just me?
 
Neuronix said:
I didn't realize that so many schools posted this data. When I tried looking in the past I couldn't find nearly this many. Maybe that's changed over the years or I wasn't looking hard enough.

Either way, I would denote the data that is for MD-only in that file with a * or some such. These GPA and MCAT values can be pretty different for state schools that are very in-state selective for MD but do not have in-state bias for MD/PhD.
Click to expand...

lostintranscrip said:
I'm a bit late, but just wanted to add my anonymous online gratitude to you for sharing this list!

Also, I'm surprised that the MCAT for UCLA/Caltech is on the low side (33)-- is this just me?
Click to expand...

See above.
 
I've started to go through and verify some schools. I have also added interview/applicant numbers and average length.

There may be more MD-only schools in the near future if I can't find my sources again. I'll make sure those are clear.
 
There is now an online version that anyone can edit. Here is the link.
 
IMHO, a better ranking to use is the NIH awards by medical school. After all, what matters to MD/PhD students is the availability of NIH funded investigators. I am aware that there are many other agencies that fund research but this is one measure.

I suggest adding two columns (after USNWR ranking if that stays) for Overall NIH funding ranking as well as the total amount NIH funding (in millions). The 2011 NIH awards are the latest available.

NIH unfortunately stop publishing these data, but there is a non-partisan (i.e: from SOM / Universities perspective) that uses a bot to aggregate the data from NIH Reporter. Here is a link to an external site: http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/NIH_Awards.htm

The most recent table
http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2011/SchoolOfMedicine_2011.xls

2011 data by departments:
http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2011/NIH_Awards_2011.htm

This website has a lot of information by individual departments too. This might be important as the ranking by your area of interest might be different than the overall ranking. However, the caveat is that some departments might not exist in some institutions despite having tremendous expertise in the area. Therefore, they could be an underestimate of the expertise for some institutions.
 
What people will recognize from those tables is that the funding doesn't quite make sense when compared to the US News data. For example, Harvard University (Medical School) by that ranking is #25 ($163,000,000). The USNews data takes into account affiliated medical centers. Which for Harvard becomes over 1 billion dollars when you count in the many affiliates.

Also, the departmental designations are a little screwy as well. For example, research in basic areas by MD, MD/PhD, or even sometimes PhD investigators may listed for funding purposes under the Department of Medicine. There is a lot of departmental cross-talk among the major institutions. Another example is where Department of Radiology investigators and funding are frequently accessed by graduate students in Biophysics/Bioengineering/Neuroscience/etc...

So grain of salt here. I know everyone likes to hate on the USNews data, but I think it is the best thing we have.
 
Neuronix,
I am well aware of the Harvard issue and clearly it is worse for departments. However, overall, the NIH award data is more solid for the greater majority of SOM rankings. Lastly, I do believe to some degree the US N&WR rankings, after all, I was named in the most recent "top physicians" list (despite only doing 50% bench / 50% clinical). My proposal was to add those two columns (NIH award ranking and amount). You could add an asterisk at the Harvard ranking and funding indicating that it does not represent the other hospitals (MGH, Partners, BCH, etc)
Fencer
 
Fencer,

It's not just Harvard. That's just an example. This issue impacts a large chunk of big name institutions. Examples include Cornell/Sloan-Kettering/Rockefeller, UCLA/CalTech,
Penn/CHOP/Wistar, Emory/Georgia Tech, etc etc etc... I believe after doing some math in the past that USNews basically takes these rankings you linked and adds the institutions and affiliates together to make the overall funding. I can't prove this, obviously, but the math is very similar.
 
I understand... My own institution has multiple collaborating self-standing institutes around our campus that double that amount of NIH money. Then, some of the other Schools within each of the institutions might add for some of the MD/PhD programs. The bottomline is that the NIH funding awards change every year and they represent a minimum amount of actual research cash coming in to the institution. If anybody makes an acceptance decision based upon these numbers, that would be a poorly informed decision, but the amount of NIH funding awards is particularly of value when looking at which non-MSTP MD/PhD programs to apply.
 
KevAquarius said:
I'm just floored that JHU's average GPA for MSTP is 3.97. For some reason that seems funny to me; but alas I checked their website and that's what it says. Holy hell.
Click to expand...

That can't be correct. Must be a typo. Sent an email to the kid who runs the website.
 
I almost did not include US News rankings for those very reasons. I take them with a little more than a grain of salt. Any list we include will have its faults and for this type of list for public consumption US News is the best understood.
 
Or tell us all please. It would be much appreciated.
 
Whoever marked several GPA/MCAT scores as MD-only, please post the source.
 
Hey guys,

I've actually been independently putting a similar list together on the MSTP wikipedia page. Since wikipedia is probably the first source potential applicants will look at, any help with citations, etc. would be extremely helpful.
 
TTile said:
Hey guys,

I've actually been independently putting a similar list together on the MSTP wikipedia page. Since wikipedia is probably the first source potential applicants will look at, any help with citations, etc. would be extremely helpful.
Click to expand...

Wow. Good job. I'll see what I can do to help.
 
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