Confused about postdoc

[NeuroWise]

I start internship later this summer and as is necessary, I am already thinking about postdoc sites and applications. I am confused, however, about how to mesh together my career goals. That is, I want to ultimately end up back in academia on the tenure track doing research, and I also want to receive board certification in neuropsychology. As you all know, in order for a postdoc to meet ABPP requirements for board certification it must be full-time for two years and I must be supervised by boarded folks. How can I receive the clinical training/experiences necessary for board certification and stay sufficiently productive in research to be competitive for tenure track jobs at the same time? If the opportunity to work with patients on a research project is available, does the PI of that project need to be boarded for it to "count"? I guess my confusion stems from the vagueness of the Houston Guidelines and ABPP that detail the competencies one needs to achieve board certification (of which research is one) but do not elaborate on how I may split my time between them and still satisfy ABPP. Like, is 50% of my time/effort in clinical training and 50% in research activities acceptable? (I'll not ask if those postdocs exist.)

Thanks for helping me clear up my confusion.

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[AbnormalPsych]

Like, is 50% of my time/effort in clinical training and 50% in research activities acceptable?

I haven't looked at these guidelines in some time, but last I did 1) most of it is aspirational in nature and 2) allows for flexibility for training like this. Because of the aspirational nature it is not required for you to be supervised by boarded folks, although it will really really benefit you to do so. You may also split your professional activities across tasks. I have been at places where neuro postdocs did a 50/50 split with no problem. I believe the number for required clinical time was 25% minimum (50% of your professional time in neuro, and 50% of that in service delivery).

The ABPP requirements for this are here:

ABPP - Specialty Specific

• At least 50% of postdoctoral training must be in the provision of clinical neuropsychological services.
• At least 50% of the clinical neuropsychological services must involve integrative neuropsychological evaluation under the supervision of a clinical neuropsychologist, with services provided to clinical populations. Integrative neuropsychological services include a component of clinical service delivery (i.e., the integration of results in a written report to patients, research participants or physicians).

 

[szymk1sm]

I start internship later this summer and as is necessary, I am already thinking about postdoc sites and applications. I am confused, however, about how to mesh together my career goals. That is, I want to ultimately end up back in academia on the tenure track doing research, and I also want to receive board certification in neuropsychology. As you all know, in order for a postdoc to meet ABPP requirements for board certification it must be full-time for two years and I must be supervised by boarded folks. How can I receive the clinical training/experiences necessary for board certification and stay sufficiently productive in research to be competitive for tenure track jobs at the same time? If the opportunity to work with patients on a research project is available, does the PI of that project need to be boarded for it to "count"? I guess my confusion stems from the vagueness of the Houston Guidelines and ABPP that detail the competencies one needs to achieve board certification (of which research is one) but do not elaborate on how I may split my time between them and still satisfy ABPP. Like, is 50% of my time/effort in clinical training and 50% in research activities acceptable? (I'll not ask if those postdocs exist.)

Thanks for helping me clear up my confusion.

My understanding (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you can indeed do a 50/50 postdoc and still be eligible for board-certification. I don't believe your research PI has to be board-certified, but you need to make sure the clinical opportunities and didactics are sufficient to be board eligible.

In my experience (which was just this last cycle), the 50/50 splits occurred less often (only 2 of the 10 sites I strongly considered) and you were expected to essentially still work the 30/40 hrs on the clinical side and then work another 20ish on the research side.

I ended up matching to a clinical postdoc (like 80/20 split), but was told there may be opportunities to expand my research load should I be able to identify a research mentor. This is not the expectation, but a conversation that could be had once I arrived. So if you are research heavy, you may still be able to get research experiences sufficient for a tenure-track position at more clinical sites if they are open to it.

My career goals are similar to your own. Feel free to PM me if you want to further discuss.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Added note: your supervisors don't need to be board-certified, at least last I checked; they just need to have adequate training in neuropsychology. Their being board certified just makes their level of training and competence easier to establish.

 

[mbneuro124]

I start internship later this summer and as is necessary, I am already thinking about postdoc sites and applications. I am confused, however, about how to mesh together my career goals. That is, I want to ultimately end up back in academia on the tenure track doing research, and I also want to receive board certification in neuropsychology. As you all know, in order for a postdoc to meet ABPP requirements for board certification it must be full-time for two years and I must be supervised by boarded folks. How can I receive the clinical training/experiences necessary for board certification and stay sufficiently productive in research to be competitive for tenure track jobs at the same time? If the opportunity to work with patients on a research project is available, does the PI of that project need to be boarded for it to "count"? I guess my confusion stems from the vagueness of the Houston Guidelines and ABPP that detail the competencies one needs to achieve board certification (of which research is one) but do not elaborate on how I may split my time between them and still satisfy ABPP. Like, is 50% of my time/effort in clinical training and 50% in research activities acceptable? (I'll not ask if those postdocs exist.)

Thanks for helping me clear up my confusion.

I will be starting a 50/50 neuro post-doc this summer that conforms to Houston guidelines, so yes, it does exist. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.

 

[NeuroWise]

Because of the aspirational nature it is not required for you to be supervised by boarded folks, although it will really really benefit you to do so. You may also split your professional activities across tasks. I have been at places where neuro postdocs did a 50/50 split with no problem. I believe the number for required clinical time was 25% minimum (50% of your professional time in neuro, and 50% of that in service delivery).

Thank you for this. I was clearly operating under some misconceptions.

 

[NeuroWise]

Added note: your supervisors don't need to be board-certified, at least last I checked; they just need to have adequate training in neuropsychology. Their being board certified just makes their level of training and competence easier to establish.

Yes, looks like I was mistaken. Thank you for clarifying this for me.

 

[Pragma]

There are a lot of misconceptions out there. Best to go straight to the ABPP materials to clarify.

If doing a 50/50, just be sure that you are still getting exposure to working with other medical specialties, and document everything you get for didactics/grand rounds/etc

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Yes, looks like I was mistaken. Thank you for clarifying this for me.

No problem, it can be a bit difficult to keep up with all of the specific rules and regulations. I would second Pragma's suggestion to try and document everything (e.g., experience, time spent, supervisors and disciplines involved, topics and any handouts from didactics, etc.), just in case. Particularly if the fellowship is not an APPCN member or APA-accredited.

And when in doubt, I would recommend contacting the ABCN folks directly; they've always been very responsive and helpful whenever I've had questions.

 

[Kadhir]

It can help a lot-- and I know this is finding the minority within the minority-- if your 50/50 position is within an institution that also has a traditional clinical fellowship (one that might even be specialty APA-accredited or APPCN). I've benefited from all the didactics already programmed for the clinical fellows and have gotten to work with most of their supervisors, all of whom are boarded.