Confused and would appreciate feedback.

[Dentalkid434]

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I am in the process of choosing from the following three schools: Buffalo (my state school), NYU (closest to home), and UPenn.

With regard to the schools:

Buffalo is a great school, but it seems like it is in middle of no where since I am from NYC and is in what feels likt the arctic. However, cost of tution and living would come out to 50-55k/year.

NYU is a great school as well. I understand that the class size is big, however, it is closest to home which means I can commute and will only be responsible for cost of tution which is ~70k/year.

UPenn - the name says it all. It is a little over a two hour drive from home which means I will have to pay for cost of living as well as tution. This will come out to 100k/year.

I am very much confused and have to make my pick in a few days! All feedback is appreciated.

Money set aside, UPenn and NYU seem like the best options for me. Yet, Buffalo would be most cost efficient, but not where I would be most happy.

What do I do???

 

[dental711]

So it seems that Buffalo and NYU would be ALMOST the same cost (~15K difference) while UPenn would be almost double the price of Buffalo and nearly 30K more expensive than NYU. Money is a big factor and so I know UPenn has a good name but unless you wanna specialize (though I'm still a big believer in it's up to the individual, not the school), I'd consider it between NYU and Buffalo. It seems like you liked NYU better than Buffalo and only based on that I'd say NYU

Congrats on your choices!

 

[jeffity]

Get a good jacket and go to Buffalo. UPenn would be awesome, but that's a massive cost gap.

 

[DHallenbeck]

I am in the process of choosing from the following three schools: Buffalo (my state school), NYU (closest to home), and UPenn.

With regard to the schools:

Buffalo is a great school, but it seems like it is in middle of no where since I am from NYC and is in what feels likt the arctic. However, cost of tution and living would come out to 50-55k/year.

NYU is a great school as well. I understand that the class size is big, however, it is closest to home which means I can commute and will only be responsible for cost of tution which is ~70k/year.

UPenn - the name says it all. It is a little over a two hour drive from home which means I will have to pay for cost of living as well as tution. This will come out to 100k/year.

I am very much confused and have to make my pick in a few days! All feedback is appreciated.

Money set aside, UPenn and NYU seem like the best options for me. Yet, Buffalo would be most cost efficient, but not where I would be most happy.

What do I do???

First off, congrats on your acceptances!!

Now, I'd say follow your gut. Don't make a decision you won't be happy or comfortable with.

If I was in your shoes, I'd probably go to NYU. It's hard for me to justify the 100k tuition unless that is really where you want to go, and you sound like you wouldn't be as happy in Buffalo, or it at least would take some adjustment. 70k for NYU is definitely more manageable than the 100k it would cost including living expenses, and you have the experience of NYC, and plenty of resources and connections once you graduate I'm sure!

 

[ATG20]

I would go to Buffalo.

https://services.aamc.org/30/first/home/organizer#.UUm4JBwqbdc

You can't pay this off comfortably or without the help of family within 10-years.

Seconded. Over the long run, Buffalo will be cheaper, your lower monthly payments will be less in four years, and you will have less pressure to practice in an undesirable area just to make an income that lets you service your debt.

You're from NYC: try something new.

 

[UCSFx2017]

I would go to Buffalo.

https://services.aamc.org/30/first/home/organizer#.UUm4JBwqbdc

You can't pay this off comfortably or without the help of family within 10-years.

If you had a salary of $95K for the first three years out of school and used IBR for those first three years and then had a salary of $120K for the remaining seven years under normal repayment plan, this is what your repayment schedule will look like. If you had a salary of $95K, that's $7,917 income per month. This is a rough estimate.

Monthly repayment of $6,330.
$7,917 - $6,330 = $1,587 in net monthly income.
Monthly rent by rooming with someone = $500-800
You'll come out with ~$800 in monthly net income.
Take out taxes and then you're at an even greater loss.
It'll be very hard for you to pay this off within 10-years.

Say you manage to increase your efficiency and land an associate job paying $120,000. That's $10,000 income per month.
Monthly repayment of $6,330.
$10,000 - $6,330 = $3,670 in net monthly income.

Even if you pay this off within 10-years, you will have paid almost twice the sticker price.

If you're going to practice in New York, expect a 1-year mandatory GPR.

Look I'm all gung-ho about going to an Ivy or UC (I freakin' love Cali and the school is a perfect fit) but I'll probably have to choose my state school. I don't know for sure yet. The business person within me wants to withhold "pleasure" for four years so that I can I have more financial flexibility and freedom from debt in the long run (well over 4-years). The student within me wants to go to a Cali school with awesome research and reputation.

 

[ATG20]

I would go to Buffalo.

https://services.aamc.org/30/first/home/organizer#.UUm4JBwqbdc

You can't pay this off comfortably or without the help of family within 10-years.

If you had a salary of $95K for the first three years out of school and used IBR for those first three years and then had a salary of $120K for the remaining seven years under normal repayment plan, this is what your repayment schedule will look like. If you had a salary of $95K, that's $7,917 income per month. This is a rough estimate.

Monthly repayment of $6,330.
$7,917 - $6,330 = $1,587 in net monthly income.
Monthly rent by rooming with someone = $500-800
You'll come out with ~$800 in monthly net income.
Take out taxes and then you're at an even greater loss.
It'll be very hard for you to pay this off within 10-years.

Say you manage to increase your efficiency and land an associate job paying $120,000. That's $10,000 income per month.
Monthly repayment of $6,330.
$10,000 - $6,330 = $3,670 in net monthly income.

Even if you pay this off within 10-years, you will have paid almost twice the sticker price.

If you're going to practice in New York, expect a 1-year mandatory GPR.

Look I'm all gung-ho about going to an Ivy or UC (I freakin' love Cali and the school is a perfect fit) but I'll probably have to choose my state school. I don't know for sure yet. The business person within me wants to withhold "pleasure" for four years so that I can I have more financial flexibility and freedom from debt in the long run (well over 4-years). The student within me wants to go to a Cali school with awesome research and reputation.

You're too generous. What about income taxes?

 

[DHallenbeck]

I would go to Buffalo.

https://services.aamc.org/30/first/home/organizer#.UUm4JBwqbdc

You can't pay this off comfortably or without the help of family within 10-years.

If you had a salary of $95K for the first three years out of school and used IBR for those first three years and then had a salary of $120K for the remaining seven years under normal repayment plan, this is what your repayment schedule will look like. If you had a salary of $95K, that's $7,917 income per month. This is a rough estimate.

Monthly repayment of $6,330.
$7,917 - $6,330 = $1,587 in net monthly income.
Monthly rent by rooming with someone = $500-800
You'll come out with ~$800 in monthly net income.
Take out taxes and then you're at an even greater loss.
It'll be very hard for you to pay this off within 10-years.

Say you manage to increase your efficiency and land an associate job paying $120,000. That's $10,000 income per month.
Monthly repayment of $6,330.
$10,000 - $6,330 = $3,670 in net monthly income.

Even if you pay this off within 10-years, you will have paid almost twice the sticker price.

If you're going to practice in New York, expect a 1-year mandatory GPR.

Look I'm all gung-ho about going to an Ivy or UC (I freakin' love Cali and the school is a perfect fit) but I'll probably have to choose my state school. I don't know for sure yet. The business person within me wants to withhold "pleasure" for four years so that I can I have more financial flexibility and freedom from debt in the long run (well over 4-years). The student within me wants to go to a Cali school with awesome research and reputation.

How long of a repayment plan are you using for these estimates? OP said he/she would be living at home...that reduces overall loan size (without interest during ds) to 280-320k. (With interest accrual probably looking at 350-400k after graduation).

400k @7.9 for 10 years should only be about 5000/month, not the 6330 you are saying.
350k @7.9 for 10 years should only be around 4200/month.

These are still large amounts, so I still recommend OP go with his/her gut. If I could have gone to NYU for 70k a year instead of the 100k, I would have done it. Buffalo is actually around 60k a year unless you are living on a very thrifty budget. so the difference between the two isn't actually that drastic. The difference is probably 3500/month vs 4500/month over 10 years. At this difference, I'd definitely be inclined to take into account everything else NYU has to offer over buffalo.

 

[ryansgs]

For 100k a year I would for sure say no to Upenn.

In case you didn't know Buffalo NY is the 15th most dangerous city in US according to the FBI. Go here if you're comfortable with the potential dangers.

NYU is the best choice. If I were in your shoes this would be my choice 100%. You live closest to this school and you'll have all the perks of living with your parents. You'll be studying all day so the only time you'll likely be at home is for sleep and that will likely minimize most of the negatives of living with your parents.

 

[UCSFx2017]

How long of a repayment plan are you using for these estimates? OP said he/she would be living at home...that reduces overall loan size (without interest during ds) to 280-320k. (With interest accrual probably looking at 350-400k after graduation).

400k @7.9 for 10 years should only be about 5000/month, not the 6330 you are saying.
350k @7.9 for 10 years should only be around 4200/month.

These are still large amounts, so I still recommend OP go with his/her gut. If I could have gone to NYU for 70k a year instead of the 100k, I would have done it. Buffalo is actually around 60k a year unless you are living on a very thrifty budget. so the difference between the two isn't actually that drastic. The difference is probably 3500/month vs 4500/month over 10 years. At this difference, I'd definitely be inclined to take into account everything else NYU has to offer over buffalo.

I used only fixed-costs (tuition, fees, and a little bit more for books and supplies). Penn increased their cost-of-attendance but they did not yet update their website. No variable costs including housing and food were used. Not even health insurance was included. In this respect, I am underestimating the principal loan. However, I do overestimate the loan repayment by being forced to use 3-years IBR due to the function of the calculator. If I could get rid of this function, I would in order to be more accurate.

The above example was for Penn. NYU isn't any cheaper.

Interest accrues the moment you take that loan out. First year's loan accumulates and capitalizes interest for the remaining <4 years of your dental school. Second year's loan accumulates and capitalizes for three years. Third year's for two years and etc.

This is a rough estimate and I am overestimating the loan repayment by having to use 3-years IBR. I can't get rid of this function from this calculator.

 

[UCSFx2017]

How long of a repayment plan are you using for these estimates? OP said he/she would be living at home...that reduces overall loan size (without interest during ds) to 280-320k. (With interest accrual probably looking at 350-400k after graduation).

400k @7.9 for 10 years should only be about 5000/month, not the 6330 you are saying.
350k @7.9 for 10 years should only be around 4200/month.

These are still large amounts, so I still recommend OP go with his/her gut. If I could have gone to NYU for 70k a year instead of the 100k, I would have done it. Buffalo is actually around 60k a year unless you are living on a very thrifty budget. so the difference between the two isn't actually that drastic. The difference is probably 3500/month vs 4500/month over 10 years. At this difference, I'd definitely be inclined to take into account everything else NYU has to offer over buffalo.

I only calculated the Penn's principal considering only fixed-costs (tuition, fees, and supplies). If I did the same with Buffalo, the cost-of-attendance (tuition and fees) is an incredibly affordable price of $110,582. Compare that to NYU's fixed-cost of at least $256,096.

 

[DHallenbeck]

I used only fixed-costs. No variable costs including housing and food was used. Not even health insurance was included.
The above example was for Penn. NYU isn't any cheaper.

Again, how long of a repayment plan is this??

Second of all, I just punched in all the OPs data, and the numbers I got for 10y is still less than 5k. I even tried doing the math by hand. That number seems wayy to high.

Other loan repayment calculators say that a monthly payment of 6300 is what you would owe to pay off a 525k loan in 10 years @7.9 interest.
And I doubt OP would owe 525k in loans even after interest accrues during DS. OP said they're cost would be tuition, which is 70-80k year.

OP would be taking out 280-320k over four years, after interest would be looking at 350-400k by graduation. He/she would likely have a large portion of this be federal loans at interest rate lower than 7.9 (this is the rate I found from Discover Health Care Education Loans). If you do the math, unless I'm completely missing something, there's no way it would cost OP 6300 month to pay off in 10 years.

 

[mid]

DHallenbeck trying to open up that Buffalo seat.

 

[znny19]

NYU. Based on location, family, and familiarity with the city. I think that alone is worth the 15k difference between NYU and Buffalo.

 

[DHallenbeck]

I only calculated the Penn's principal considering only fixed-costs (tuition and fees). If I did the same with Buffalo, the cost-of-attendance (tuition and fees) is an incredibly affordable price of $110,582. Compare that to NYU's fixed-cost of at least $256,096.

You have to take into account the living expenses, OP said would be living with family.

In buffalo, OP would have to be additionally responsible for housing, food, car, insurance for car, gas for said car.

If we were just taking into account tuition, I would agree with you. But NYU tuition plus instruments + fees is about 71k (as listed on their website)
Buffalo tuition + instruments + fees + living expenses! = ~60k year.

Thats one thing, and the other is that the 6300 a year still doesn't add up right.

 

[DHallenbeck]

DHallenbeck trying to open up that Buffalo seat.

I may be a little biased. Still, 4200-5000 is still nothing to joke about. I'm just trying to explain that for the OP, the cost of NYU would not equate to 6300/month repayment. Thats 1-2k month too high of an estimate. Buffalo would still save OP 700-1500 month over 10 years. That's why I was telling him/her to go with they're gut. Thats what I did, and why I turned down NYU. But I didn't have the option of free to little cost living expenses. I would have had an additional 30k a year in my loans if I decided to go to NYU.

 

[UCSFx2017]

Again, how long of a repayment plan is this??

Look at the post. It clearly says 10-years...The heading on the MedLoans calculator also calculates the total repaid amount if the schedule were adjusted to 30-years and 25-years in IBR.

Second of all, I just punched in all the OPs data, and the numbers I got for 10y is still less than 5k. I even tried doing the math by hand. That number seems wayy to high.

I did the math on Excel for calculating the principal once you graduate from Penn and I got very similar results to the one calculated by MedLoans except I didn't include the origination fee. I mentioned that the calculator uses the first 3-years as IBR. Regardless, Buffalo is considerably more affordable. See attached.

Other loan repayment calculators say that a monthly payment of 6300 is what you would owe to pay off a 525k loan in 10 years @7.9 interest.
And I doubt OP would owe 525k in loans even after interest accrues during DS. OP said they're cost would be tuition, which is 70-80k year.

I already answered this. Read above post concerning the use of IBR. It really doesn't matter since the dogma on this thread and everywhere else in SDN would be to attend the most affordable school which is Buffalo by a long shot. You're also forgetting about the 4% origination fee for 7.9% Federal Direct PLUS loans and 1% origination fee for 6.8% unsubsidized loans.

OP would be taking out 280-320k over four years, after interest would be looking at 350-400k by graduation. He/she would likely have a large portion of this be federal loans at interest rate lower than 7.9 (this is the rate I found from Discover Health Care Education Loans). If you do the math, unless I'm completely missing something, there's no way it would cost OP 6300 month to pay off in 10 years.

You can only borrow $40,500 of your loans at 6.8%. The rest is borrowed at 7.9% with 4% origination fee.

In that Excel document I did not calculate the 4% origination fee. If I did, the principal would be equal to the one calculated by the MedLoans calculator.

 

[free99]

In buffalo, OP would have to be additionally responsible for housing, food, car, insurance for car, gas for said car.

For what it's worth, housing in Buffalo is incredibly affordable, and food is a cost that OP will likely have regardless of where he ends up. And while subway passes are likely not quite as expensive as car insurance and gas (these costs are largely variable based on driving record and driving frequency), you can't discount the cost of public transit in NYC. It's pricey, and has been on the rise for years.

 

[UCSFx2017]

NYU. Based on location, family, and familiarity with the city. I think that alone is worth the 15k difference between NYU and Buffalo.

The difference in cost between Buffalo and NYU is not $15K.

You have to take into account the living expenses, OP said would be living with family.

In buffalo, OP would have to be additionally responsible for housing, food, car, insurance for car, gas for said car.

If we were just taking into account tuition, I would agree with you. But NYU tuition plus instruments + fees is about 71k (as listed on their website)
Buffalo tuition + instruments + fees + living expenses! = ~60k year.

Thats one thing, and the other is that the 6300 a year still doesn't add up right.

Fixed-cost at Buffalo is $110,582. Compare that to NYU's fixed-cost of at least $256,096.
Difference of $145,514 which is just sticker price and not including accrued interest over >10-years. No amount of free housing/food within a span of 4-years will amount to anything close to this amount once it accrues and capitalizes interest. Expect $145,514 difference to almost double by the time you pay it off.

Only people with terrible financial sense or with families borrow the full amount for living expenses...So no, the amount of loan money offered for covering living expenses is no where near the amount you actually need to borrow.

Rent is in fact affordable up in Buffalo. $285/month for rooming in a 4 bedroom single house.

http://buffalo.craigslist.org/roo/3626923646.html

http://buffalo.craigslist.org/roo/

The OP will save a fortune by attending Buffalo.

 

[ATG20]

You have to take into account the living expenses, OP said would be living with family.

In buffalo, OP would have to be additionally responsible for housing, food, car, insurance for car, gas for said car.

If we were just taking into account tuition, I would agree with you. But NYU tuition plus instruments + fees is about 71k (as listed on their website)
Buffalo tuition + instruments + fees + living expenses! = ~60k year.

Thats one thing, and the other is that the 6300 a year still doesn't add up right.

http://financialaid.buffalo.edu/costs/dentalcost.php

^^This sounds a lot better for everything than 71k just for tuition and instruments at NYC. The buffalo budget doesn't require one to really be "thrifty" to bring the cost down. Unless you're commuting from far away, drive a hummer, or are making car payments, the trans. cost can come down; 3k+ is excessive if you live near campus. "Books" is extremely negotiable as is the "Board" allowance for groceries. Unless the OP is within walking distance to NYU, there'll still be transportation costs to and from campus, in addition to dining expenses unless he's brown-bagging it every single day (doubtful).

Conservatively, the difference is 60-80k. The amount saved isn't anything to take lightly either. I don't know about you folks, but I could find at least 100 other ways to invest 80k over the course of 10 years worth of repayment.

 

[DHallenbeck]

I would go to Buffalo.

https://services.aamc.org/30/first/home/organizer#.UUm4JBwqbdc

Ok, I don't disagree with you that the tuition of NYU after 4 years when one graduates will be around 320,000k. I was allowing for the fact that it would cost 350-400k after graduation.

But take a look at what the calculator did again. First off, for the first 3 years of the residency function, it has you only making payments of $900-1,100 a month! Then, it has you finishing off the loan in 7 years (3 yrs residency @ 1k/month, 7 yrs regular @6,300/month, 10 years total). This is why we are getting different numbers, and this is why I am saying payments would not be 6300 month. Instead of doing the 3 years 1k/month, then 7 more of 6,300/month, you do all 10 years at 4,200-5k/month.

Does this clear it up? I think this is why we are disagreeing on this.

And as far as the ticket prices you are referring to, I was using the UB handout that says tuition + other fees (not including room, board, and transportation) = ~40k year. The handout from NYU says that tuition + other required fees = ~71 (74 with insurance). I was allowing for 20k/year living expenses in buffalo. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you could live in buffalo for 10k year living expenses. But in order to do that, (rent = 300/mo --> 3,500k year; utility payments and cell phone = ~1,000/year; and then $5,500 year for food and travel divided by 12 months = a little less than 500/month.) We can all agree that 10k a year is a thrifty budget. Most students, I believe, would opt for 15-20k year for living expenses.

 

[DHallenbeck]

I did the math on Excel for calculating the principal once you graduate from Penn and I got very similar results to the one calculated by MedLoans except I didn't include the origination fee. I mentioned that the calculator uses the first 3-years as IBR. Regardless, Buffalo is considerably more affordable. See attached

I agree, Buffalo is definitely more affordable. All I was trying to point out was that monthly payments for NYU would be less than $6300 month. This calculation was made using the IBR (residency payments of $1,000/month for first 3 years). The monthly payments for a 10 year program would be more like $4500/month. My claim that buffalo would be 1-2k/month cheaper than this still stands.

 

[UCSFx2017]

Ok, I don't disagree with you that the tuition of NYU after 4 years when one graduates will be around 320,000k. I was allowing for the fact that it would cost 350-400k after graduation.

But take a look at what the calculator did again. First off, for the first 3 years of the residency function, it has you only making payments of $900-1,100 a month! Then, it has you finishing off the loan in 7 years (3 yrs residency @ 1k/month, 7 yrs regular @6,300/month, 10 years total). This is why we are getting different numbers, and this is why I am saying payments would not be 6300 month. Instead of doing the 3 years 1k/month, then 7 more of 6,300/month, you do all 10 years at 4,200-5k/month.

Does this clear it up? I think this is why we are disagreeing on this.

And as far as the ticket prices you are referring to, I was using the UB handout that says tuition + other fees (not including room, board, and transportation) = ~40k year. The handout from NYU says that tuition + other required fees = ~71 (74 with insurance). I was allowing for 20k/year living expenses in buffalo. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you could live in buffalo for 10k year living expenses. But in order to do that, (rent = 300/mo --> 3,500k year; utility payments and cell phone = ~1,000/year; and then $5,500 year for food and travel divided by 12 months = a little less than 500/month.) We can all agree that 10k a year is a thrifty budget. Most students, I believe, would opt for 15-20k year for living expenses.

I don't know why this is coming as a surprise since I explained everything from my first post.

 

[DHallenbeck]

If you had a salary of $95K for the first three years out of school and used IBR for those first three years and then had a salary of $120K for the remaining seven years under normal repayment plan, this is what your repayment schedule will look like. If you had a salary of $95K, that's $7,917 income per month. This is a rough estimate.

Monthly repayment of $6,330.
$7,917 - $6,330 = $1,587 in net monthly income.
Monthly rent by rooming with someone = $500-800
You'll come out with ~$800 in monthly net income.
Take out taxes and then you're at an even greater loss.
It'll be very hard for you to pay this off within 10-years.

Say you manage to increase your efficiency and land an associate job paying $120,000. That's $10,000 income per month.
Monthly repayment of $6,330.
$10,000 - $6,330 = $3,670 in net monthly income.

Even if you pay this off within 10-years, you will have paid almost twice the sticker price.

All the information was there from the first post. But saying that you would have the net income of $1,587 is what caught my attention, and was an error on your part. Your calculation said payments of ~$1000 a month for first 3 years, but in the quoted text you used the $6300 mo payments in the 3 year IBR calculation.

The monthly net income (before taxes) for those first 3 years should be ~$6,887 if you are only paying the 1k/month IBR.

So relax. I made a mistake and didn't initially realize you were using a lower 3 year IBR payment, but that is only because all I saw was your calculations in the text using $6300 for all 10 years. That was a mistake on your part in explaining the repayment plan.

 

[UCSFx2017]

All the information was there from the first post. But saying that you would have the net income of $1,587 is what caught my attention, and was an error on your part. Your calculation said payments of ~$1000 a month for first 3 years, but in the quoted text you used the $6300 mo payments in the 3 year IBR calculation.

The monthly net income (before taxes) for those first 3 years should be ~$6,887 if you are only paying the 1k/month IBR.

So relax. I made a mistake and didn't initially realize you were using a lower 3 year IBR payment, but that is only because all I saw was your calculations in the text using $6300 for all 10 years. That was a mistake on your part in explaining the repayment plan.

LOL unbelievable whatever makes you feel better

k thanks

 

[chingaling]

I know everyone starts to pull out their calculators and starts crunching numbers regarding the cost of tuition, and of course that is a huge priority, but to only think of that seems too simplistic for an important decision like this.You are spending 4 years of your life there! You also have to decide how much you are willing to sacrifice to save "x" amount of money. If you are ok with living in a place you don't like, or moving away from family/significant other etc., and are content with this decision because you are saving money, great- that works for you. If you think you will be miserable living somewhere or attending a certain school, maybe the money you save won't be worth it in the long run. Maybe you will kick yourself that you didn't go to the school you really wanted, where you would enjoy your dental school experience or enjoy living in a certain city or have more opportunities in specializing. It's a cost- benefit analysis, which only you can make. I hope you make the right choice for you, and congrats on all your acceptances🙂

 

[NDPitch]

DentalKid-

I'm gonna be blunt with you, so don't hate on me. Don't be ridiculous. Go to Buffalo. Seriously. This shouldn't be a hard decision.

Whatever your plans are after graduation, you can make it happen at any school. Take it from people who have been working in the real world for a while and have a sense of what it's like to manage money when you have a "real job" (I'm only one of such people on this site), and go to the cheapest school. I would seriously be very cautious about listening to advice that says to go where you think you'd be happy, and that money isn't the only factor. Sure, money isn't the only factor, but it's the BIGGEST factor. Don't do yourself the disservice of giving yourself unnecessary debt. You might not think so now, but you will feel the pain of those loans when you graduate. You're a dentist wherever you go to school, and with hard work any student can do what they want after graduating from any dental school in the United States.

I know there are people here that disagree with my opinion, and I very respectfully disagree with them. Suck it up and go to Buffalo - it's actually not in the middle of no where. There's a lot to do there. It's a great city. Food festivals, an awesome coastline, sports teams, statistically one of the sunniest cities in the summer, close to Toronto (Canada's New York), CHEAP cost of living, etc etc. It's cold and snowy in the winter, but so is all of the northeast. Buffalo. Done and done. Also, I'm going to Buffalo this fall, so don't feel like I'm trying to give you false advice to benefit myself.

Pack up and move to NYC on the day of graduation. The smaller loan check will help your lifestyle go a lot further there when you are actually working. Don't do the opposite - which is enjoy your 4 years of dental school in what you consider to be a good location and then be forced to move somewhere you hate because you can't make enough money to repay your loans.

I'll see you in August! 🙂 👍

 

[UCSFx2017]

On a similar note, if you ever want to open up your own practice or buy someone out by taking out a loan, you have to have a certain monthly asset-to-debt ratio in order to qualify. It's much harder for dentists to take out loans now than 10-years ago. You make peak income by owning your practice. If you go to NYU and end up as a GP and want open up a practice, you'll most likely have to stretch your loan payments out to 30-years just to qualify for that loan.

 

[jlf1042]

To the OP, I recently made a similar decision and decided to go to UB (also my state school) . I have been having a tough time as well for the same reason you have been but like many have been saying, the finances should be the most important factor! You don't want to be miserable, but ask yourself is Buffalo doable? If not that by all means go to NYC. But I've been following the general rule of thumb/advice found on SDN and given by a few dentists I have talked to that you should go where you can be happy and where is the most affordable. I feel like I have piece of mind knowing I'll receive a great education while also graduating with the least amt of debt!

Do you have any time to visit Buffalo? I know you need to decide like ASAP... Its all about perspective so it may seem small compared to NYC, but Buffalo is the 2nd biggest city in NY, so its really not no where. If you can visit and spend some time (more than just when you came up to interview) I would recommend it. It may help you to see that its not so bad, or it could make the decision super easy if you really really don't like it!

Good luck to you! Either way, you're going to be a dentist 👍

 

[KittySquared]

I am in the process of choosing from the following three schools: Buffalo (my state school), NYU (closest to home), and UPenn.

With regard to the schools:

Buffalo is a great school, but it seems like it is in middle of no where since I am from NYC and is in what feels likt the arctic. However, cost of tution and living would come out to 50-55k/year.

Money set aside, UPenn and NYU seem like the best options for me. Yet, Buffalo would be most cost efficient, but not where I would be most happy.

What do I do???

From your sentiments, I think it's wise to not consider Buffalo. Your experience can make or break you. Go wherever you think you will be the happiest for all 4 years. While I do think Buffalo makes the most financial sense, you are also spending probably the best 4 years of your 20s. You might as well pay the price and be truly happy.

 

[znny19]

From your sentiments, I think it's wise to not consider Buffalo. Your experience can make or break you. Go wherever you think you will be the happiest for all 4 years. While I do think Buffalo makes the most financial sense, you are also spending probably the best 4 years of your 20s. You might as well pay the price and be truly happy.

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[UCSFx2017]

You should find out both how much the better happiness opportunities at NYU is worth and if those happiness opportunities during those four years is worth the long-term financial pressures after dental school. That's what I'm trying to figure out between UCSF and my state school. People have different thresholds. If happiness is the only thing keeping you from Buffalo, remember that humans are very adaptable and that people can adjust to whatever current negative environment until it becomes their new neutral reference point.

Don't go into this without a long-term (>15-year postgraduate) plan as to how you're going to finance dental school. It's nice and in fact very easy to choose whatever makes us happy now and pay dearly later but your future hypothetical self is still the same you.

You'll be spending most of your time in the library and lab anyways and the insides of the library and labs look pretty much the same everywhere to me.

 

[UCSFx2017]

Here's what I have to say about following your gut-feeling. Malcolm Gladwell summed it up pretty well in his summary of his book "Blink".

"If there're any rules, they would be simply that instinctive reactions in the absence of experience&#65279; are worse than useless, they are dangerous."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRioBKpUwY[/youtube]
You have never gone through and paid for dental school and therefore have no past experience to make your instinctive, gut-feeling decisions reliable.

 

[Dentalkid434]

Thank you all for the suggestions and words of encouragement - it really means a lot to me! This is the most difficult decision I have to make during this application process and I am at a complete loss. I just hope I will not regret the decision in the long run...

 

[UCSFx2017]

Thank you all for the suggestions and words of encouragement - it really means a lot to me! This is the most difficult decision I have to make during this application process and I am at a complete loss. I just hope I will not regret the decision in the long run...

I completely feel the torture that you're going through. Only 1-week before April 1st and I'll have to make a decision as well...

I've just come to accept that no matter what school I choose, I'll be able to find some argument as to why I should have attended another school and end up regretting my decision. Before the application process and up until I calculated the cost-of-attendance after repayment, Penn was at the top of my list...

 

[KittySquared]

remember that humans are very adaptable and that people can adjust to whatever current negative environment until it becomes their new neutral reference point.

Negative environment? Gosh you make Buffalo sound so awful like one must endure living there like it's perpetual torture lol.

 

[UCSFx2017]

Negative environment? Gosh you make Buffalo sound so awful like one must endure living there like it's perpetual torture lol.

lol I don't mean to since I've never been there but it looks like it is such a place for the OP since he/she is even considering NYU's pricetag in order to avoid Buffalo.
I think Richmond might be worse. But Richmond compared to my home city is awesome.

 

[jlf1042]

I completely feel the torture that you're going through. Only 1-week before April 1st and I'll have to make a decision as well...

I've just come to accept that no matter what school I choose, I'll be able to find some argument as to why I should have attended another school and end up regretting my decision. Before the application process and up until I calculated the cost-of-attendance after repayment, Penn was at the top of my list...

This sums up how I feel exactly. I never considered that I would go to my state school over my top choices, but also never considered the cost of dental school. Who knows why...

And I could go in circles about whether I will regret one choice or the other, but at the end of the day there is no wrong choice really!

 

[UCSFx2017]

This sums up how I feel exactly. I never considered that I would go to my state school over my top choices, but also never considered the cost of dental school. Who knows why...

And I could go in circles about whether I will regret one choice or the other, but at the end of the day there is no wrong choice really!

Yeah! Sometimes I forget that no matter what decision I make, I'll still be a dentist!

 

[dental711]

no problem and good luck! let us know what you decide!

 

[Bis-GMA111]

the city of buffalo is horrible. i'd probably equate it to mordor, tbh.

but, the OP is getting a really sweet deal with the cheap tuition and great education from the school. I would personally suck it up and go to buffalo.

and by the time school gets into full gear you probably won't even care about the other schools at that point...you'll just be worrying about trying to do the best you can.

 

[peroxi]

im just going to keep it simple, in my opinion go where you feel like you will be the happiest for the next 4 years money aside. So what if you end up paying a little bit more money for loans if you do end up at Upenn or NYU. Everyone comes out of student loan debt, even though at first it may seem daunting. If your not happy at the school, I dont think your going to happy treating your patients in clinic at school. Theres no need to ask for opinions, just go where your your gut tells you go to.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

im just going to keep it simple, in my opinion go where you feel like you will be the happiest for the next 4 years money aside. So what if you end up paying a little bit more money for loans if you do end up at Upenn or NYU. Everyone comes out of student loan debt, even though at first it may seem daunting. If your not happy at the school, I dont think your going to happy treating your patients in clinic at school. Theres no need to ask for opinions, just go where your your gut tells you go to.

lol. i admire your optimism, but seriously..it's another 100k for the OP for 4 years at nyu vs. another 200k at penn. also factor in interest. i don't know if you come from money, but that's quite a bit amigo.

 

[peroxi]

Yes, it is a lot of money after factoring in interest. But coming from a propective where this will be by second career, once you start practicing and earning money, 100k can be paid off in a couple of years, but you cant buy happiness with money. Like i said, its just money and you will pay it back.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

haha. i'm just saying, no one knows what the future holds, and debt is a very serious issue.

 

[gryffindor]

Thank you all for the suggestions and words of encouragement - it really means a lot to me! This is the most difficult decision I have to make during this application process and I am at a complete loss. I just hope I will not regret the decision in the long run...

You will regret it if you choose the more expensive school. I have yet to meet a dentist who went to private school and is repaying their loans say "Gosh, I'm so happy I skipped that cheap school to go private." No. They usually say "You were smart to go to the state school."

It is stupid to worry about things like happiness in dental school. Dental school sucks. Buffalo sucks, NYU sucks. There is nothing about being graded on a how you cut a plastic tooth that is fun. Studying 600 pages of slides for a pathology exam is also not fun. The only difference is that Buffalo as a city is not as exciting as New York. But that doesn't matter because you are there to study. If you don't study, you will fail out regardless of which school you choose. If you make friends in your dental class, you will have fun. Lots of NYC area students attend Buffalo. I packed up and moved to NYC soon after graduation. I've been out 9 years now and have not once regretted choosing the cheaper school. Although during dental school I doubted myself all the time and wished I had gone elsewhere. 22 year old me was stupid and thought happiness mattered more than loan payments. 32 year old me realized that I can do a lot more fun things with my life and money because my loan payments don't make such a huge hit in my budget.

 

[DHallenbeck]

All I have to say about following your gut, is that often times your gut decisions for big issues are usually right. (at least in my own experience)

I could have attended a 4-year university with a full ride, worth about 140k.
Instead, I followed my gut with what felt right for me even though the university I chose has put me about 40k down in loans. (The school I chose just felt right, I felt like it was where I belonged, its hard for me to explain).
This gut decision for me has proven to be the best decision I ever made, for many reasons, the biggest among them being that this is where I met my fiance. It was by no means the smartest financial decision, but it was the best decision of my life and I will never regret it.

Now, in regards to choosing between NYU UPenn and Buffalo, the price differences are much bigger than my decision to turn down a full ride and instead take on 40k undergraduate debt. So anyone making these decisions should without a doubt ensure that they truly understand the scale of the debt that they are taking on, especially compared to other schools.

I'm not trying to say that the gut feeling is always irrational...my gut feeling was to turn down NYU this cycle because of the price tag for me which would have totaled 500k in the end. This gut feeling was completely rational, i just felt that it was the right decision for me.
I just believe that we are most aware of our gut feelings exactly when they are irrational and don't make sense.

The OP will know what is the right decision to make. You're doing to right thing by trying to make an informed decision. There's alot on the line, both money and otherwise.

Regardless, just like the other guys said, congrats! You've been accepted to several dental schools and you're gunna be a dentist in 4 years! 👍

 

[p741]

Make sure your choose the right college that you would love to go for another four years. Four years are long. Dont just pick one because of commute or expenses involved. Also see which school has most to offer you and what you expect to do in future. if you would like to be GP, either one being more convenient and cheaper would be smarter option, and if research is something you have enjoyed think about Upenn.

 

[bdental2013]

DentalKid-

I'm gonna be blunt with you, so don't hate on me. Don't be ridiculous. Go to Buffalo. Seriously. This shouldn't be a hard decision.

Whatever your plans are after graduation, you can make it happen at any school. Take it from people who have been working in the real world for a while and have a sense of what it's like to manage money when you have a "real job" (I'm only one of such people on this site), and go to the cheapest school. I would seriously be very cautious about listening to advice that says to go where you think you'd be happy, and that money isn't the only factor. Sure, money isn't the only factor, but it's the BIGGEST factor. Don't do yourself the disservice of giving yourself unnecessary debt. You might not think so now, but you will feel the pain of those loans when you graduate. You're a dentist wherever you go to school, and with hard work any student can do what they want after graduating from any dental school in the United States.

I know there are people here that disagree with my opinion, and I very respectfully disagree with them. Suck it up and go to Buffalo - it's actually not in the middle of no where. There's a lot to do there. It's a great city. Food festivals, an awesome coastline, sports teams, statistically one of the sunniest cities in the summer, close to Toronto (Canada's New York), CHEAP cost of living, etc etc. It's cold and snowy in the winter, but so is all of the northeast. Buffalo. Done and done. Also, I'm going to Buffalo this fall, so don't feel like I'm trying to give you false advice to benefit myself.

Pack up and move to NYC on the day of graduation. The smaller loan check will help your lifestyle go a lot further there when you are actually working. Don't do the opposite - which is enjoy your 4 years of dental school in what you consider to be a good location and then be forced to move somewhere you hate because you can't make enough money to repay your loans.

I'll see you in August! 🙂 👍

I completely agree with this. Make an excel sheet and factor in the interest and living expenses. If you'd still rather go to NYU than by all means go. It is 4 years in Buffalo but it is what you make it. It's not necessarily the "arctic." Yes there has been extreme winters but there's been very mild ones as well. The city won't shut down if there's a few inches of snow. You will find friends and you will find a community. After 4 years, you can leave and never look back. You'll still have to go somewhere for GPR or specialty. Also keep in mind the cost of some specialty programs if that's something you were considering for the future. Ultimately though the decision is yours. If the difference in price is worth it to you (not to me or anyone else on the forums), then NYU it is!

 

[Dentalkid434]

Thank you all for the advice and suggestions. April 1st is literally in a few days...this is so tough...I just hope I make the correct choice.