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You have every right to be proud. Think about how far you've come.
This is way above my pay grade. One suggestion is to do research for a year.This is probably not the right place, but I need your advice Goro.
I did not match AOA/get anything in the AGCME SOAP trying for IM... in huge part because of my two PE failures.
I don't know what to do... everything on AOA Opportunities is gone... even TRIs. Will I have a shot next year... what do I do for this upcoming year?
You should look into FM as well. And apply broadly.This is probably not the right place, but I need your advice Goro.
I did not match AOA/get anything in the AGCME SOAP trying for IM... in huge part because of my two PE failures.
I don't know what to do... everything on AOA Opportunities is gone... even TRIs. Will I have a shot next year... what do I do for this upcoming year?
You should look into FM as well. And apply broadly.
FM is not a repository for people with multiple board failures; just FYI.
That’s not to say that this person can’t find a way to get into residency training; but the oft repeated suggestion that people with red-flags should “look into FM” is poor advice, not to mention offensive.
FM is not a repository for people with multiple board failures; just FYI.
That’s not to say that this person can’t find a way to get into residency training; but the oft repeated suggestion that people with red-flags should “look into FM” is poor advice, not to mention offensive.
Is it not true, though? I understand that a lot of people who fail to match into their chosen specialty, often due to exam failures and so forth, SOAP into undesirable FM residency spots.
You literally just confirmed why everyone says to apply FM if you have board failures. Then why are you offended that FM is exactly how the poster described it? his literal post was "You should look into FM as well. And apply broadly."They SOAP into undesirable residency programs everywhere. IM, Peds, Surgery Prelims, and FM.
I’ve even seen these people SOAP into Neuro, Psych, Gas, and I’m sure it’s happened in other fields plenty too.
I just take exception to anyone giving advice to an academically troubled student to “look into FM” as though we’d welcome them with open arms.
They SOAP into undesirable residency programs everywhere. IM, Peds, Surgery Prelims, and FM.
I’ve even seen these people SOAP into Neuro, Psych, Gas, and I’m sure it’s happened in other fields plenty too.
I just take exception to anyone giving advice to an academically troubled student to “look into FM” as though we’d welcome them with open arms.
Nothing against FM... The applicant failed PE (CS), which is not a serious exam IMO... Path/FM/IM/Peds are the least competitive of all specialties. Therefore, if the applicant failed to match IM, the next logical specialty to try is FM which has the most resemblance with IM.FM is not a repository for people with multiple board failures; just FYI.
That’s not to say that this person can’t find a way to get into residency training; but the oft repeated suggestion that people with red-flags should “look into FM” is poor advice, not to mention offensive.
Come on man, calm it with the ego. I have one friend who failed Level 1 two times, Level 2 once who matched into FM straight out the match.
He's giving me good advice, to consider all options. I appreciate the advice W19.
You’ll have no better chance in FM than other less competitive fields.
I don't think that's true.
Have you sat in on the FM resident selection process? I have many times.
But everyone’s free to take the opinion of the med-students as the gospel-truth if they want. I don’t mind either way as it doesn’t affect me in a personal way. I just figured I’d share the POV of an actual FM resident who’s seen both sides of the process.
He didn't match, actually.You've seen the process at one institution. Have you personally SOAPed into FM? A lot of people do that.
He didn't match, actually.
LOLThat makes sense.
It’s true that FM is less competitive than just about everything else, and that applicants with poor scores or red flags are more likely to find a home there than most other specialties.
It’s also true that FM has a lot of really great docs, that it’s an overworked and underpaid specialty, and that they get s*** (self-censored) on regularly more than most specialties, especially on the internet.
Probably true that OP should look at it in addition to IM next year, but I get why @SLC is offended, too.
You put it better than I did... Medicine as whole is a dick-measuring contest. An MS3 who is gunning for gas told me yesterday 'Anyone can match IM' and when I pointed out that gas is no more competitive than IM by showing him the 2016 charting outcomes, he was not too happy.It’s true that FM is less competitive than just about everything else, and that applicants with poor scores or red flags are more likely to find a home there than most other specialties.
It’s also true that FM has a lot of really great docs, that it’s an overworked and underpaid specialty, and that they get s*** (self-censored) on regularly more than most specialties, especially on the internet.
Probably true that OP should look at it in addition to IM next year, but I get why @SLC is offended, too.
You put better than I did... Medicine as whole is a dick-measuring contest. An MS3 who is gunning for gas told me yesterday 'Anyone can match IM' and when I pointed out that gas is no more competitive than IM by showing him the 2016 charting outcomes, he was not too happy.
It’s no different than telling less competitive pre meds to consider DO or Caribbean school. It’s not meant to be offensive. Just advice given off empirical data.Edit to add: thanks @Goro for the pleasant thread and nice sentiment! Too bad we immediately derailed it, but that’s SDN custom I suppose.
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It’s true that FM is less competitive than just about everything else, and that applicants with poor scores or red flags are more likely to find a home there than most other specialties.
It’s also true that FM has a lot of really great docs, that it’s an overworked and underpaid specialty, and that they get s*** (self-censored) on regularly more than most specialties, especially on the internet.
Probably true that OP should look at it in addition to IM next year, but I get why @SLC is offended, too.
That makes sense.
You call it ego, I call it pragmatism. The advice you need is how to improve your application for next year. How to compensate for the board failures and shine in other ways.
You’ll have no better chance in FM than other less competitive fields. Statistically speaking, IM is where you should put most of your apps as there are many more IM programs than FM programs.
But all of this is a non-starter if you don’t do something this year to improve your app. I’d take Goro’s advice and speak to your school.
Dude, your insecurities just ooze off the screen, which is fine, except what you are saying is also just factually incorrect.FM is not a repository for people with multiple board failures; just FYI.
That’s not to say that this person can’t find a way to get into residency training; but the oft repeated suggestion that people with red-flags should “look into FM” is poor advice, not to mention offensive.
I just take exception to anyone giving advice to an academically troubled student to “look into FM” as though we’d welcome them with open arms.
This is just factually incorrect. There is absolutely statistical evidence that people with board failures have a better chance matching in FM than other specialties.You’ll have no better chance in FM than other less competitive fields. Statistically speaking, IM is where you should put most of your apps as there are many more IM programs than FM programs.
Dude, your insecurities just ooze off the screen, which is fine, except what you are saying is also just factually incorrect.
This is just factually incorrect. There is absolutely statistical evidence that people with board failures have a better chance matching in FM than other specialties.
There's only one document I know of from the NRMP that shows this, but it's pretty striking. It's the NRMP/ECFMG Charting Outcomes for IMGs from 2013, link here,
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...tional-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf
They actually list the number of USMLE attempts for matched and unmatched applicants per specialty. The number of USMLE step 1 attempts for matched US-IMGs in FM is 1.4. The only other specialty that is similar is psych, also at 1.4. All other specialties, including IM, are 1.0 or 1.1.
So there is actually statistical evidence that people with board failures have a better chance in FM than other specialties. And people should absolutely advise the least competitive applicants to pursue FM instead of other specialties.
FM is by far the least competitive specialty. It has lowest board scores and a higher proportion of people with board failures matching than other specialties. It's not offensive, it's just the facts. It doesn't mean FM docs are idiots or less worthy, it's just the reality of desirability of specialties in the current climate.
EDIT: sorry to derail thread, but it's important to call out people who repeatedly post information that is just factually incorrect.
congrats to all that matched this year!
Classic @SLC, just try and change the subject when you're blatantly wrong and hope no one notices.Hey if it keeps you from igniting another IMG vs DO monstrosity; then I’m happy.
Because we all know that’s what you came into DO looking for.