Congrats:)

[gozeemer]

Hey, haven't posted in a long long time. Just wanted to say congratulations to all of you have gotten in Today (my birthday) I received my final decision letter--applied to a lot of schools and received a polite "hell no" from each of them. This is my third year applying and haven't even received an interview yet. I have a 7-9-9 and 5-9-11 on the MCAT, a 3.6 undergrad GPA, and a 4.0 in my MPH, with a lot of extra-curriculars and really good letters.

That damn MCAT score I plan on taking the MCAT this April and applying early decision and if I don't get in just head to the Caribbeans (SGU or ROSS this fall). So far thats my plan. I am really sorry to complain, but I'm just getting really disheartend by all this.

If anyone can lend some advice it would be sincerely appreciated.

--thanks--

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[Em1]

Hey, haven't posted in a long long time. Just wanted to say congratulations to all of you have gotten in Today (my birthday) I received my final decision letter--applied to a lot of schools and received a polite "hell no" from each of them. This is my third year applying and haven't even received an interview yet. I have a 7-9-9 and 5-9-11 on the MCAT, a 3.6 undergrad GPA, and a 4.0 in my MPH, with a lot of extra-curriculars and really good letters.

That damn MCAT score I plan on taking the MCAT this April and applying early decision and if I don't get in just head to the Caribbeans (SGU or ROSS this fall). So far thats my plan. I am really sorry to complain, but I'm just getting really disheartend by all this.

If anyone can lend some advice it would be sincerely appreciated.

--thanks--

Sorry to hear about your luck this cycle. This really is a disheartening process- I don't think ANYONE goes through it without their ego taking a severe beating. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and happy birthday!!!

 

[Rafa]

That's rotten. Do you have any idea what specifically in the MCAT keeps thwarting you during the test? And also, have you applied to DO schools in addition to MDs?

Still, happy birthday nonetheless.

 

[toxin]

how do u study for the MCAT? i jumped 6 points my second time after changing my study technique...msg me if u need advice

 

[gozeemer]

Thanks for the replies and Happy Bdays...I didn't apply DO, still in between on whether osteopathic or an allopathic carribbean degree is more for me. I basically just decided to go to ROSS/SGU because the residencies are similar for both DO and some oversea schools...

 

[MahlerROCKS]

Thanks for the replies and Happy Bdays...I didn't apply DO, still in between on whether osteopathic or an allopathic carribbean degree is more for me. I basically just decided to go to ROSS/SGU because the residencies are similar for both DO and some oversea schools...

Just remember professors at Caribbean schools are there for the same reason students are: so what's the point of being an M.D. if you'll most likely be grossly incompetent? Osteopathic schools offer a much better education with more clinical exposure, and the ability to place into allopathic and osteopathic residencies as a domestic applicant.

 

[mustangsally65]

Sorry to hear that, gozeemer. I just got a rejection from the only school I interviewed at this year, and so I'm going to be reapplying again too. This will be my third year applying, so I've only been rejected two times in a row. I can't imagine going three times and still not being accepted.

My MCATs are my weak point too. I can't get above a 24, and my highest combined score is a 24R (9V, 8P 8B). i'm applying for summer medical programs at my state school and most of them have an MCAT component that helps you prepare/study. I think the coursework will be very helpful too, since you do a lot of upper-level science courses in these summer programs (or at least the ones I've applied to).

there are also a few post-bacc programs that are a year long, but most of the ones I've looked at are primarily for URMs, which doesn't apply to me. You could also try becoming an EMT, phlebotomist, MLT, or some other entry-level medical job. It will get you a lot of experience and will show that you can operate in a health care enviornment.

I'm also going to try to volunteer at some free clinics whenever I can. I've been disappointed that a lot of these are only open for a few hours a week, but maybe you can find a similar organization that provides low-cost care to people without insruance. Maybe a place like Planned Parenthood.

I live in a very rural area and I think that has really hindered my opportunities to get out and get involved in the health care field. But I'm doing my best to remedy that becuase I know that no other field will make me happy.

Some schools offer a conference with the dean to discuss your application after a rejection and suggest how you could improve. If you have one or two schools where you really want to go and where you are somewhat competitive, then you should schedule a conference. I've heard it can be very helpful, and it also shows a committment.

Good luck. I know it's a tough process.

 

[RxnMan]

I apologize in advance, but how can these folks get 3.5, 3.7+ GPAs and not get above a 30 on the MCAT? And before anyone jumps on me, I have a 2.35 ugrad GPA and people on the boards have called me an idiot. I just want to know how you can do so well in class but not on what amounts to just another test?

 

[Vizsla]

I apologize in advance, but how can these folks get 3.5, 3.7+ GPAs and not get above a 30 on the MCAT? And before anyone jumps on me, I have a 2.35 ugrad GPA and people on the boards have called me an idiot. I just want to know how you can do so well in class but not on what amounts to just another test?

a good GPA is built over several semesters of hard work...your mcat score reflects performance on one day of your life. You could either not be a good test-taker, have a family/health issue that day...I know a lot of pre-meds who had excellent gpa's bc they were hard workers but had below avg mcat scores bc they just werent great at taking a standardized test. THey still got into great schools tho bc I think an admissions committee will favor the gpa more since it reflects yrs of work

 

[DrLizzie]

I apologize in advance, but how can these folks get 3.5, 3.7+ GPAs and not get above a 30 on the MCAT? And before anyone jumps on me, I have a 2.35 ugrad GPA and people on the boards have called me an idiot. I just want to know how you can do so well in class but not on what amounts to just another test?

It could definitley happen and it happened to me. I have a decent GPA, but I messed up on the MCAT. The reason why is because I really stressed myself out days before the test, because the MCAT is the test that will ultimatley decided whether you will get in or not to med schools. That's a lot of pressure. Pretty much win or lose. I also know a lot of people that were either science or non-science majors at certain schools were it was really easy to get high grades. Plus in each course you have at least 3 chances to redeem yourself if you do bad on a particular exam (assuming you have 3 exams and a final). Plus not to mention those individuals that are internationals. So, for people to get high GPAs and then low MCAT scores is not unusual. It happens!

 

[Em1]

I apologize in advance, but how can these folks get 3.5, 3.7+ GPAs and not get above a 30 on the MCAT? And before anyone jumps on me, I have a 2.35 ugrad GPA and people on the boards have called me an idiot. I just want to know how you can do so well in class but not on what amounts to just another test?

The MCAT is primarily a critical thinking test. It evaluates a different set of skills than those measured by a GPA.

 

[ashabee4]

I apologize in advance, but how can these folks get 3.5, 3.7+ GPAs and not get above a 30 on the MCAT? And before anyone jumps on me, I have a 2.35 ugrad GPA and people on the boards have called me an idiot. I just want to know how you can do so well in class but not on what amounts to just another test?

It's called test-taking skills. I have a 3.7 gpa and I got a 24 the first time I took the MCAT. I worked my butt off improving simple test-taking skills and just got used to taking the test, and got a 33 the second time.

 

[Overlap12]

I apologize in advance, but how can these folks get 3.5, 3.7+ GPAs and not get above a 30 on the MCAT? And before anyone jumps on me, I have a 2.35 ugrad GPA and people on the boards have called me an idiot. I just want to know how you can do so well in class but not on what amounts to just another test?

Some schools are much, much easier than others- the UCs vs. the Cal States for instance. This is why the MCAT is given in the first place. While the MCAT to some extent may reflect only one day's performance, it is a standard measure of each applicant's science preparation so that a 3.9 at a state school isn't counted the same as a 3.5 at John Hopkins. But that's just my 2 cents.

 

[RxnMan]

a good GPA is built over several semesters of hard work...your mcat score reflects performance on one day of your life. You could either not be a good test-taker, have a family/health issue that day...I know a lot of pre-meds who had excellent gpa's bc they were hard workers but had below avg mcat scores bc they just werent great at taking a standardized test. THey still got into great schools tho bc I think an admissions committee will favor the gpa more since it reflects yrs of work

I agree. Schools generally look at GPA over MCAT because it reflects years of work. But that's beside my point: How can you be a consistently hard-working student and know the material (both of which are implied by that high GPA) but fail on standardized test (and 24 MCAT = 50% percentile = F in most schools)?

 

[mustangsally65]

I apologize in advance, but how can these folks get 3.5, 3.7+ GPAs and not get above a 30 on the MCAT? And before anyone jumps on me, I have a 2.35 ugrad GPA and people on the boards have called me an idiot. I just want to know how you can do so well in class but not on what amounts to just another test?

It's a completely valid question, although I'm sure a lot of people might potentially find it accusatory. Goodness knows I've asked myself that question enough times over the years. I've taken the MCAT three times, and I'm gonna be taking it again in August.

I had very skewed forms on the last two MCATs I took, which didn't let me show what I really knew because they were heavy on only one or two topics. But lots of people have a cold, have a noisy test center, or have a myriad of other factors that affect their performance.

This is going to sound extreme, but I was diagnosed with an insulin/glucose problem back in November, and I think that four or five years of inadequate glucose to my brain affected my performance. I've been in a fog for several years, but I only realized this once I got put on Glucophage and slowly emerged. I feel so much more clear-headed after three months on meds, and I'm hoping that will help increase my score. Now I'm sure adcoms would laugh at this, but it's helped me regain some confidence in myself and my academic ability.

We all have different strengths and weaknesses, and unfortunately that one score from one day has a big influence on our futures. I think the MCAT is not as standardized as it could be, and that there should be a certain amount of required questions from the different subjects on each form, so that you don't get a form that's heavy in micro and has no orgo, or whatever. But that's another rant for another day.

I think it would be great if people could take RxnMan's question seriously and generate a good discussion. I used to be ashamed of my MCAT score, and I still am to some degree but I have gotten to the point where I can discuss it enough to maybe help others out who are in the same situation. It can be disheartening to come on SDN and have people asking if a 33 is good enough, when I'd be ecstatic with a 27 or above. Sometimes it's great to hear from people who haven't scored as high.

 

[RxnMan]

It could definitley happen and it happened to me. I have a decent GPA, but I messed up on the MCAT. The reason why is because I really stressed myself out days before the test, because the MCAT is the test that will ultimatley decided whether you will get in or not to med schools. That's a lot of pressure. Pretty much win or lose. I also know a lot of people that were either science or non-science majors at certain schools were it was really easy to get high grades. Plus in each course you have at least 3 chances to redeem yourself if you do bad on a particular exam (assuming you have 3 exams and a final). Plus not to mention those individuals that are internationals. So, for people to get high GPAs and then low MCAT scores is not unusual. It happens!

Internationals, unfortunately, have a lot to work against with the MCAT. Language barriers are no fun.

On the pressure side of things, I felt the same way when I took the MCAT the first time. I was so nervous, I slept for only an hour the night before, for exactly the same reason - this test was going to determine my life! Yet I earned a 31 on no sleep and a 2.35 GPA.

You can have forgiveness for the MCAT as well - you can take it multiple times and it doesn't look half as bad as taking a class over again. But my arguement is that you must be a consistenly good test-taker to get that GPA. So why can't you use the same skills on the MCAT?

 

[Em1]

Internationals, unfortunately, have a lot to work against with the MCAT. Language barriers are no fun.

On the pressure side of things, I felt the same way when I took the MCAT the first time. I was so nervous, I slept for only an hour the night before, for exactly the same reason - this test was going to determine my life! Yet I earned a 31 on no sleep and a 2.35 GPA.

You can have forgiveness for the MCAT as well - you can take it multiple times and it doesn't look half as bad as taking a class over again. But my arguement is that you must be a consistenly good test-taker to get that GPA. So why can't you use the same skills on the MCAT?

Tests you take that count towards your GPA usually just test your ability to recall whatever you were taught.

The MCAT tests your ability to take what you know and apply it to a new and unfamiliar context.

Different set of skills.

 

[DrLizzie]

double post

 

[DrLizzie]

Internationals, unfortunately, have a lot to work against with the MCAT. Language barriers are no fun.

On the pressure side of things, I felt the same way when I took the MCAT the first time. I was so nervous, I slept for only an hour the night before, for exactly the same reason - this test was going to determine my life! Yet I earned a 31 on no sleep and a 2.35 GPA.

You can have forgiveness for the MCAT as well - you can take it multiple times and it doesn't look half as bad as taking a class over again. But my arguement is that you must be a consistenly good test-taker to get that GPA. So why can't you use the same skills on the MCAT?

Speaking for myself, I am an international and we would never have multiple choice questions when we were taking tests. I personally was not used to the test format. Yes, I did study for the MCAT, but I didn't take as much time off as I should have to really improve my test taking skills. Also I was working full time, doing research and taking classes at the same time, which I shouldn't have done. I knew/know the material, it was just that I had to learn how to pace myself and really understand the test.
I feel that I have a very good grasp of the material, but if you don't understand the test or how it is set up you can still end up with a pretty lousy score (which I unfortunatley did ).
It all comes down to each individual and the circumstances that they were in while preparing for the test and/or taking the test.

 

[RxnMan]

Some schools are much, much easier than others- the UCs vs. the Cal States for instance. This is why the MCAT is given in the first place. While the MCAT to some extent may reflect only one day's performance, it is a standard measure of each applicant's science preparation so that a 3.9 at a state school isn't counted the same as a 3.5 at John Hopkins. But that's just my 2 cents.

I am biased, but this is the only explanation I can think of.

There is justification for the schools looking at GPA (years of work) more than MCAT (one day's assessment). But that means that the relative measure, the GPA, is the standard for admissions, while the standardized tool, the MCAT, is not? Why have a tool and not use it properly?

 

[star22]

I am biased, but this is the only explanation I can think of.

There is justification for the schools looking at GPA (years of work) more than MCAT (one day's assessment). But that means that the relative measure, the GPA, is the standard for admissions, while the standardized tool, the MCAT, is not? Why have a tool and not use it properly?

I think the schools look at the two together. Your GPA demonstrates how hard you worked over several years and the MCAT standardizes everyone directly relative to one another. There are flaws in both... the same person could have a different GPA at different schools or in different majors within the same school. So unless you are comparing two people from the same school, with the same major and the same family/work obligations, it doesn't say much.

But the MCAT can be biased too. Some people are able to take a prep course, others are not. It is a timed test, so some people may be capable of answering everything correctly, but may not get to all of the passages because they run out of time. MCAT boils down to how much you prepared and how well you perform on one day. But there is no perfect indicator of who will be successful.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Tests you take that count towards your GPA usually just test your ability to recall whatever you were taught.

The MCAT tests your ability to take what you know and apply it to a new and unfamiliar context.

Different set of skills.

Completely agree.

I think timed tests are really important though... much of medicine is time critical -- recalling and implementing interventions to save people's lives. At one of my interviews, I looked at my host's USMLE qbook... the questions were many many times harder than the MCAT, scary! As for some tests containing more micro than neuro (for example), I think all topics are important and should be fair game, regardless of proportions.

To the original poster -- GOOD LUCK! You can pull up your MCAT... just do more timed tests, and figure out where your weaknesses are and address them systematically. Maybe make a journal of which topics you need to work on.

 

[RxnMan]

...the same person could have a different GPA at different schools or in different majors within the same school. So unless you are comparing two people from the same school, with the same major and the same family/work obligations, it doesn't say much.

This is my point. GPA doesn't mean much unless you have incredibly detailed info about a person's life/school/family and can consistently and quantitatively alter GPA to allow for between-school comparisons. Even thinking about the logistics of getting that data is daunting, let alone convincing the ADCOMs to start and use such a system. The MCAT fills this void, yet it's not weighed as much as the relative measure. It's like favoring hands or cubits over the meter.

But the MCAT can be biased too.

Yet of all of the measures used to compare premeds, this is the only one that is close to being standardized.

Some people are able to take a prep course, others are not.

AAMC provides practice tests for free, and most prep companies will let you take one of their practice tests for free as well. Besides, the biggest preparation you can do is learn the material in the first place, and you should have done so already as evidenced by a high GPA.

It is a timed test, so some people may be capable of answering everything correctly, but may not get to all of the passages because they run out of time.

There will be times in a medical career where time will be an issue. Sure your doc may be able to recall all the ways to treat a MI, but if she/he doesn't do it in 10 minutes, you're going to have problems.

Who's to say that time isn't a valid constraint? If we have unlimited time, then why not allow texts into the exam room? How about professors/phone a friend? Then the MCAT wouldn't be a test. If you can recall XYZ for the MCAT faster than everyone else, you're better prepared than everone else. If you can treat that MI in less than 10 minutes, your patient survives.

MCAT boils down to how much you prepared and how well you perform on one day.

High GPA shows consistentcy, correct? So a high GPA would be indicate that you consistently perform at a high level. Why should one test day be any different than another? If you were off (family/medical condition) one day, you can take the MCAT again.

Of the measures used to compare premeds (ECs, GPA, MCAT) the MCAT is the least time-intensive, and it's the only one that you can do repeatedly until you get the value you want (and I am all for the new format, which will allow testing 1/month, not 2/year). There's no excuse for getting a low score.

 

[star22]

Who's to say that time isn't a valid constraint? If we have unlimited time, then why not allow texts into the exam room? How about professors/phone a friend? Then the MCAT wouldn't be a test. If you can recall XYZ for the MCAT faster than everyone else, you're better prepared than everone else. If you can treat that MI in less than 10 minutes, your patient survives.

I fully agree, RxnMan. However, for me, and I am sure I am not alone, the verbal section is my weakness. For that section, time is the major factor, since I wasn't able to get to all of the passages. If I had an extra 20 mins, I could probably boost my score a couple points. However, as it stands, my average VR score proabably makes adcoms wonder whether I am well-spoken, able to communicate with others, etc. When, in reality, all it says is I don't read as fast as my peers. So in this case, I think I have to rely on my non-science GPA to come to my defense.