Considering MD/PhD..have some questions and need some advice!

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I am graduating from undergrad this semester and am planning on applying to med school this June (Taking MCAT in May). I have been doing research for about a year now and I love it. My passion is immunology/virology/infectious diseases. Literally, I wish I had more free time so that I could re-read my immunology textbook and a virology text. I had always planned on going to med school with hopes of becoming an infectious disease specialist, but now research has me thinking that I would like to do research (and clinical work as well, maybe 50/50 or 80 research/20 clinical).

My question is, should I aim for the just the MD and do research with that, or go for the MD/PhD. I love the idea of getting formal training in an area such as virology (via a PhD) which could also we applied to research I want to do in the future, but done know if this program is for someone like me. I am pretty confused about this and also don't know if I would even be competitive for and MD/PhD, let alone just an MD.

I posted my stats in the what are my chances forum, but here they are again.

The first two years of college for me were not good. My gpa for each semester is:

Fall 08: 3.11
Spring 09: 3.28
Fall 09: 3.30
Spring 10: 3.20(A in orgo 2, B- in analytical chemistry, that was brutal)
Fall 10: 4.0
Spring 11: 4.0
Fall 11: 3.96 (22 credits)

I am almost positive I will get a 4.0 this semester since it is not too bad. Hopefully that will bring my overall up to around 3.63. If I had to estimate I would say that my bcpm gpa is around a 3.50.

For my EC I am a volunteer EMT with active riding experience for 1.5 years (about 6-12 hours a week for the first year)...I just recently took a break from doing this because I am too busy and can't afford the gas to get there.

I have 100+ hours of volunteering in the hospital and working as a tech in a different hospital (for about a year). (probably more like 250-300 hours of volunteer and work combined)

I have been doing research at a medical school since June and will continue with that even after I graduate.

I also have done 50 hours of shadowing a derm, and will be looking into more shadowing before I apply.

I studied for the MCAT last summer and was averaging 31/32 on the AAMCs but voided on test day because I was just having a terrible day and felt I could do better than my average if I retook anyway.

Can anyone give me any input as to which route to take (or any other input is appreciated)? Or opinions on if I even have a chance at an md/phd.

Thanks

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If I recall, the average overall GPA and MCAT for MSTPs is 3.7 - 3.8 and 34 - 35, respectively. (Note: I do not know scores for non-MSTP MD/PhDs.) At a 3.6 -- with a marked upward trend -- you can absolutely still be a competitive applicant with a strong MCAT score (34 - 36+).

Your volunteering, clinical experience, and shadowing are right on target. That said, the most important EC for MD/PhD programs is research. By the time of your application, you will have twelve months of experience. (And, of course, by the time at which you interview, that figure will have increased substantially.) Do you have your own project? Will you have any publications? Posters?

The MD/PhD program is longer than the MD program, usually seven or eight years (to four years of medical school). However, you'll benefit from a stipend in the MD/PhD, roughly in the $20,000 - $30,000 range per year, whereas the MD will likely require you to undertake a significant amount of debt.
 
I am graduating from undergrad this semester and am planning on applying to med school this June (Taking MCAT in May). I have been doing research for about a year now and I love it. My passion is immunology/virology/infectious diseases. Literally, I wish I had more free time so that I could re-read my immunology textbook and a virology text. I had always planned on going to med school with hopes of becoming an infectious disease specialist, but now research has me thinking that I would like to do research (and clinical work as well, maybe 50/50 or 80 research/20 clinical).

My question is, should I aim for the just the MD and do research with that, or go for the MD/PhD. I love the idea of getting formal training in an area such as virology (via a PhD) which could also we applied to research I want to do in the future, but done know if this program is for someone like me. I am pretty confused about this and also don't know if I would even be competitive for and MD/PhD, let alone just an MD.

I posted my stats in the what are my chances forum, but here they are again.

The first two years of college for me were not good. My gpa for each semester is:

Fall 08: 3.11
Spring 09: 3.28
Fall 09: 3.30
Spring 10: 3.20(A in orgo 2, B- in analytical chemistry, that was brutal)
Fall 10: 4.0
Spring 11: 4.0
Fall 11: 3.96 (22 credits)

I am almost positive I will get a 4.0 this semester since it is not too bad. Hopefully that will bring my overall up to around 3.63. If I had to estimate I would say that my bcpm gpa is around a 3.50.

For my EC I am a volunteer EMT with active riding experience for 1.5 years (about 6-12 hours a week for the first year)...I just recently took a break from doing this because I am too busy and can't afford the gas to get there.

I have 100+ hours of volunteering in the hospital and working as a tech in a different hospital (for about a year). (probably more like 250-300 hours of volunteer and work combined)

I have been doing research at a medical school since June and will continue with that even after I graduate.

I also have done 50 hours of shadowing a derm, and will be looking into more shadowing before I apply.

I studied for the MCAT last summer and was averaging 31/32 on the AAMCs but voided on test day because I was just having a terrible day and felt I could do better than my average if I retook anyway.

Can anyone give me any input as to which route to take (or any other input is appreciated)? Or opinions on if I even have a chance at an md/phd.

Thanks

Hi there!

Sounds like you a have a passion for research, which is a good start. I think most program directors hope that the career of an MD/PhD will be at least 70% research. It is hard to maintain a productive basic sciences lab if you spend less time. Nevertheless, this is not the career outcome of all graduates. See this paper http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20186033

Pros of MD/PhD
-rigorous training in basic sciences
-education in an environment with other prospective physician-scientists (you share experiences etc.)
-med school is paid for
-looks good when applying to residency programs

Cons
-LONG!
-not necessary if you aren't going to try to have you own lab in the future

My thought is that you should consider how devoted you are to research and how much of a hurry you are in to become a licensed physician. If you decide to apply MD/PhD, apply to a range of programs and you should find yourself with a spot based on your stats. I would still encourage conferences etc. (as suggested above).

Other options = a Master's combined program or you could do medical school and there are Residency programs where you can complete a grad degree. An advantage to the latter is that you will be publishing very close to when you are seeking a faculty position, and you have had the opportunity to see what clinical areas you like in med school beforehand, which will inform your research.

Good Luck with your decisions! It is nice to read about someone who also loves to curl up with a textbook :p
 
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Do you have your own project? Will you have any publications? Posters?

I have my own specific part of the overall project, and yes, I will have a poster. I don't have any publications yet, but if I decide to do MD/PhD, I won't apply until next year, and hopefully will have at least one by then.

Is the MD/PhD program for someone like me? The amount of schooling does not intimidate me at all but should I just consider MD and do research with that?

Is it worth the extra effort to put off applying, gain more research experience, and apply MD/PhD next year?
 
I have my own specific part of the overall project, and yes, I will have a poster. I don't have any publications yet, but if I decide to do MD/PhD, I won't apply until next year, and hopefully will have at least one by then.

Publications are not necessary for admission to MSTPs. That said, two years of research experience is standard for applicants.

You should be able to clearly articulate your particular facet of the project; the interviewer needs to know that you have tangible, "legitimate" experience. Furthermore, your poster will be advantageous.

Is the MD/PhD program for someone like me? The amount of schooling does not intimidate me at all but should I just consider MD and do research with that?

Your genuine interest in virology and immunology, as well as your desire for a PhD and a subsequent career in research, is certainly consistent with the MD/PhD path. Yet, ultimately, I cannot say that the MD/PhD program is for you. (This would be irresponsible, as I would be basing my opinion entirely on your post.) Have you spoken to your PI? Undergraduate advisor? Virology or immunology professor, perhaps? Or, to MD/PhDs at your institution?

The duration of the program may not intimidate you from your current vantage point, but eight years is a substantial amount of time, nonetheless. (For this reason, among others, I would suggest speaking to any MD/PhDs.) Though, again, an MSTP or MD/PhD program offers a stipend; to the contrary, MD program will cost a significant amount.

Is it worth the extra effort to put off applying, gain more research experience, and apply MD/PhD next year?

I cannot be certain. Would the year of research ensure a publication? Would the additional months of MCAT preparation ensure a significantly better score? Or, beyond the quantitative factors in your application, would the extra year of research be necessary to cement your commitment to the MD/PhD track?

If you are confident that you can obliterate the MCAT in May (35 - 38+), then you should consider an application for this cycle. But, with regards to the duration, your research experience is, relatively, slightly thin. (This, of course, is without knowing any specifics of your project. So, I would hope that you accept my apology, in advance, if your 18 months of work in the lab have been solid.) Again, these are all points that you should discuss with your PI or advisor. Have you asked this question in the WAMC forum?
 
Nobody else can tell you for certain that a MD/PhD program is right for you. However, if you want to have research be a significant component of your career and are considering MD/PhD vs MD plus postdoc, most research faculty (MD and MD/PhD alike) would tell you to go MD/PhD. This is for several reasons, preparation (it is hard to equal the research training you get doing a PhD) and financial considerations among them.

Your GPA with a strong upward trend shouldn't hold you back too much as long as you get 35+ on the MCAT. I applied with a similar GPA from a mediocre undergraduate and got interviews everywhere I applied except top 5 programs.

You will need more research experience. It would be best to get a lab tech job so you can do research full-time. You are lucky in that you already have an in by working in a lab at a medical school. The optimal situation would be that the PI in your current lab hires you on so you can hit the ground running. If that isn't possible, ask him if he knows a good lab that is looking for an entry-level tech and if he would be willing to put in a good word with the PI for you.
 
Thank you for the replies everyone, they have been helpful. This is such a hard decision to make. I have to either continue on my original plan and apply for MD-only this June. Or, decide to wait another year to apply if I want to try for the MD/PhD.

While I love research and think that it is something I definitely want to be involved with in the future, I still do not know a lot of things. Lets say that I don't necessarily want to be a PI, but still want to work in the lab (doing experiments) , 3-4 days a week, and work clinical the other 1-2 days. Is the PhD overkill in this scenario? Is it mainly for people who want to be PI's?

If this were the case, would just the MD (or MD/MS which I have heard a little about) be the better route, working in the lab to do actual experiments and not be a PI?
 
Lets say that I don't necessarily want to be a PI, but still want to work in the lab (doing experiments) , 3-4 days a week, and work clinical the other 1-2 days. Is the PhD overkill in this scenario? Is it mainly for people who want to be PI's?

We just had this discussion. See: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=886670

If this were the case, would just the MD (or MD/MS which I have heard a little about) be the better route, working in the lab to do actual experiments and not be a PI?

Neither, the model doesn't really exist. If you want to run your own experiments full-time don't get an MD. Running the actual experiments is done by grad students, post-docs, and lab techs. Those are all poorly paid positions. As a PI your job is to bring in grants, come up with ideas, manage your lab, and present those ideas in various ways.
 
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