Contact from programs after interview

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Eklipse

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Just wondering if other applicants out there have received any further contact from residency programs after visiting them for interviews? Do many programs contact you further if they have a strong interest, or should you not read too much into it if you don't hear from them again? I guess this might change as the ROL deadline approaches.

Thanks.

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I have a similar Q. Perhaps BKN can fill us in.. My understanding is that some places do and some dont. At Wash U the PD was like.. we dont send love letters to anyone. So dont freak.. Of course other places probably do. I think it is way too early since interviews are still ongoing. I would guess you will start getting the love letters come late Jan early Feb.. once interviews have really wound down and ROL deadline gets close.
 
So far I've either had a phone call from a chief resident or a letter in the mail (tailored to details about me and my application) or an email thanking me and telling me the usual we like you stuff.

Actually, I don't think 2 programs contacted me, but everyone else did.

Just gives me a little more confidence that I'll "rank" somewhere, but not impacting how I rank thats for sure.

later
 
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The PD at UTSW said they used to call everyone near the end of the interview season, just to make sure nobody had any questions for them; but about 10% of the people he called became extremely hostile (his words). Apparently they thought he was trying to figure out how applicants were ranking his program..... So now he doesn't contact anyone.


So far, I have received a letter from one program and an email from another (after 5 interviews now).

My interviews are listed in the "interviews offered" thread.
 
Can you guys write where you interviewed. IIRC I didnt interview anywhere you guys did..
 
I've gotten....

phone call from a resident at Cook County

personal thank you note from Drexel's PD (I think most everyone received a personal thank you note from them)

email from UT-Houston immediately after my interview (although in the past I've heard that everyone gets almost the same email)
 
Actually let me restate.. I am in a unique situation and as such I actually did have contact post interview at what will be my #1.. but my situation is quite weird so I dont think that matters..

Nothing from anyone else :(

The thing is this is very variable IMO, for example at the 2 places I rotated I was basically asked.. do you want to be here, cause if you do then things are good (insert wink wink smile and nod) .. All that being said my other interviews were a little less great but I still felt they went extraordinary well.

Well I hope you guys get your top choices. BTW Cook county is a great place IMO, it just isnt for everyone.
 
EctopicFetus said:
I have a similar Q. Perhaps BKN can fill us in..

I probably can't. I'm learning from you'all. We haven't contacted folks because
1. It never occurred to me.
2. I try to give everybody my card with my e-mail and encourage them to contact me if they have questions. Nobody seems to do so.

Maybe we ought to, but I find the reaction that people had to PD Southwestern very disturbing. I want people to rank the way they want to without coercion. I'm certainly going to.

BN
 
Crap double post.. Ill leave the other since it is a little more complete..
 
But BKN I would imagine if there were 2 candidates (it always happens this way right, just 2?:)) and one was an all world EM stud (fill in your own info on him) and he comes down and interviews and does a decent job, he doesnt do a 2nd look or send a thank you, you dont hear from him after the interview, to make it even more interesting lets say he isnt from texas or anywhere around there, lets say Maine or Oregon. The 2nd candidate is from Texas, heck he even grew up in El Paso, his application overall is average to below average, does equally on the interview as candidate #1, sends thank yous and in some form or another says he loves you and your program.

How do you rank these guys.. I am honestly curious. This is all quite a little game, interesting cause every yr in theory a new group of candidates has to figure it out..

Like I said I had my pow-wow with my # 1.. but I also had weird circumstances
 
i also got the ubiquitous UT Houston email...it was nice, but when i read it i had the feeling it was generic...you guys confirmed it :laugh:
 
EctopicFetus said:
But BKN I would imagine if there were 2 candidates (it always happens this way right, just 2?:)) and one was an all world EM stud (fill in your own info on him) and he comes down and interviews and does a decent job, he doesnt do a 2nd look or send a thank you, you dont hear from him after the interview, to make it even more interesting lets say he isnt from texas or anywhere around there, lets say Maine or Oregon. The 2nd candidate is from Texas, heck he even grew up in El Paso, his application overall is average to below average, does equally on the interview as candidate #1, sends thank yous and in some form or another says he loves you and your program.

How do you rank these guys.. I am honestly curious. This is all quite a little game, interesting cause every yr in theory a new group of candidates has to figure it out..

Like I said I had my pow-wow with my # 1.. but I also had weird circumstances

I'm not sure I can answer this. It's pretty individual to the program. some places like the home grown, others like the stars. In your scenario, it wouldn't matter. Whichever I rank first, I'm going to get the homeboy. A more interesting question would be two candidates, both interested, one a home boy with slightly lower qualifications than the OOTer.

In that case, at our place we'd put it in our formula. Since I wrote the formula, I know how it would come out, but I won't tell you. :D After that my faculty and I would argue about it at the match party. :laugh:

And of course, it's not really about two well defined candidates, its about 100 with varying characteristics. The ranking also doesn't matter at the top nor at the bottom, only in the band containing where the lowest ranking applicant is expected to be.
 
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Eklipse said:
Just wondering if other applicants out there have received any further contact from residency programs after visiting them for interviews? Do many programs contact you further if they have a strong interest, or should you not read too much into it if you don't hear from them again? I guess this might change as the ROL deadline approaches.

Thanks.

I think the underlying assumption is incorrect. Whether the program tries to recruit you is irrelevant to your interests. Back to game theory. You go for the program order that YOU want not paying attention to what THEY want. The only exception is when you find a program that is willing to trade away their higher picks for your trading away your higher picks. And that depends on your believing them since you can't write a contract outside the match if you're an American allopathic senior. Note that verbal contracts are explicitly not binding under the match agreement. I believe that they would be without the agreement's wording. Then the trouble would begin!
 
I guess to boil down my Q if a local candidate expressed a lot of interest and an OOTer expressed little to none outside of showing up to the interview and the pre-interview dinner wouldnt you look at them differently? Maybe not.. but that would be my assumption.
 
EctopicFetus said:
I guess to boil down my Q if a local candidate expressed a lot of interest and an OOTer expressed little to none outside of showing up to the interview and the pre-interview dinner wouldnt you look at them differently? Maybe not.. but that would be my assumption.

You want to draw me into reassuring you, but I doubt that it would be a comparison. In my place mostly a local who wants to stay either has the job or has guaranteed he can't have it.

And once again, it's never a question of two candidates against each other. It's a matter or ordering a list of 100 all with different strengths and weaknesses. That's why the tentative formula to get a starting point. Then the advocates get their say.
 
BKN it isnt about reassurance, rather I am quite curious how PDs view this. I think "showing interest" has to account for something thats all I am trying to say. Only at Wash U did the PD say we dont care about that stuff, EVERY other place I interviewed at (except the ones I rotated at) gave me the 2nd look speech, how it is "important" but it isnt "necessary".
 
BKN said:
I'm not sure I can answer this. It's pretty individual to the program. some places like the home grown, others like the stars. In your scenario, it wouldn't matter. Whichever I rank first, I'm going to get the homeboy. A more interesting question would be two candidates, both interested, one a home boy with slightly lower qualifications than the OOTer.

In that case, at our place we'd put it in our formula. Since I wrote the formula, I know how it would come out, but I won't tell you. :D After that my faculty and I would argue about it at the match party. :laugh:

And of course, it's not really about two well defined candidates, its about 100 with varying characteristics. The ranking also doesn't matter at the top nor at the bottom, only in the band containing where the lowest ranking applicant is expected to be.


How about the home girls???? :p

I mean, I will grant you, that my program, with F:M ratio of 10:4, 10:4, and 8:6 isn't the norm (but we *are* the envy of many programs...), surely you aren't all a bunch of good ol' boys out there at TT, are you?

For the rest:

Perhaps because the NE is a little less warm and fuzzy, I wasn't contacted by any programs. (and I guess back in the good ol days when I applied, UTSW didn't send me a note... but maybe they didn't want me.. :() I in no way took this to mean that I wasn't going to rank. And bland thank you notes would not have made me feel any better.

Maybe I was a little delusional, but I matched at my number one. (and to make it even more conversational and nerve wracking.. I interviewed on our last day. :D)



I agree with BKN. (this is getting boring..... could you post something more controversial??? :D ) Your rank list should be a decision you make without influences like notes. You should be picking the programs that you think fit you best.

EF: our PD also says that these types of notes make little difference. it doesn't really matter to him how the thinks someone is going to rank the program. He does a running rank list after every interview day-putting each week into the master list. Thank you notes and I'll rank you #1's don't even come into play. (I think mine was recieved after rank list was already put in>...)
 
roja said:
How about the home girls???? :p

I mean, I will grant you, that my program, with F:M ratio of 10:4, 10:4, and 8:6 isn't the norm (but we *are* the envy of many programs...), surely you aren't all a bunch of good ol' boys out there at TT, are you?


I agree with BKN. (this is getting boring..... could you post something more controversial??? :D ) Your rank list should be a decision you make without influences like notes. You should be picking the programs that you think fit you best.

EF: our PD also says that these types of notes make little difference. it doesn't really matter to him how the thinks someone is going to rank the program. He does a running rank list after every interview day-putting each week into the master list. Thank you notes and I'll rank you #1's don't even come into play. (I think mine was recieved after rank list was already put in>...)

1. I'm going to blame EF, he set up the all male scenario. :smuggrin: Serioulsy, I do envy you. The women residents have fewer testosterone storms. :laugh:

BTW from our web site present ratio 8 W: 16 M. Last five graduating classes: 16 w: 24 men. I think it's pretty close to our app ratio.

2. Thanks for backing me up on the never ending thank you wars. They seem to take it even more seriously in general residency threads.
 
BKN said:
1. I'm going to blame EF, he set up the all male scenario. :smuggrin: Serioulsy, I do envy you. The women residents have fewer testosterone storms. :laugh:

BTW from our web site present ratio 8 W: 16 M. Last five graduating classes: 16 w: 24 men. I think it's pretty close to our app ratio.

2. Thanks for backing me up on the never ending thank you wars. They seem to take it even more seriously in general residency threads.


Sure sure. Blame the poor nerve-wracked fourth year for your PC-faux pas. ;) And are you saying women are less agressive? you must not have every been in our ER. ;)

Do you think your ratio means that women are wiser about not wanting to be out in west texas? :smuggrin:

Okay well those are my pathetic attempts to try and disagree with you. :)

I didn't realize TT program was so large! That is a huge residency.

re: back up- I think the obsession with thank you notes has to do with the decided feeling of little control in the process. Writing notes and believing that they might give you some help, gives you a sense (granted false) of control over your life.

I guess I don't really have contol issues. :cool:
 
roja said:
Sure sure. Blame the poor nerve-wracked fourth year for your PC-faux pas. ;) And are you saying women are less agressive? you must not have every been in our ER. ;)

Do you think your ratio means that women are wiser about not wanting to be out in west texas? :smuggrin:

Okay well those are my pathetic attempts to try and disagree with you. :)

I didn't realize TT program was so large! That is a huge residency.

re: back up- I think the obsession with thank you notes has to do with the decided feeling of little control in the process. Writing notes and believing that they might give you some help, gives you a sense (granted false) of control over your life.

I guess I don't really have contol issues. :cool:

I always blame MS4s when I can't find a EM2.

I certainly wasn't saying EM women, particulary Texas EM women aren't assertive (PC break). I was saying that on average they were less likely to flame without forethought. In others words the idiot deserved to be yelled at. :laugh:

Yes, your attempts were weak.

We have 8 residents a year. Those were totals.

and I'm sure you don't have any control issues. Just like all of us EPs. ;)

Back to work.
 
You blame your EM2's and not your EM1's??? *makes note* so much to learn about being an attending. :p

I find that up north, one of the best things that works is to put on just a touch of texas accent and smile real sweet. Deludes them all into thinking us souther women (we have several) are easy to sway. :D And true, we don't flame as much. We just plot our revenge. Mwuaaaaaaahahaha.

They are weak because I am brain addled from trying to write to emergent abstracts by tomm! AAAAAAAAAAAAACK

Control? Control? I have no idea wht you are talking about.

Good site, btw. Your link on scutwork isnt working though. Had to google the program.


Have fun at work. I'm going to go write a few conferences for residents.
 
Thanks for the good stuff BKN and roja. I find it interesting that it doesnt matter. Some of the other PDs I have talked to basically said that part of their process of inviting people has to do with if a person will come there, of course once someone spends their $$$ I guess that shows interest enough for many PDs.

Yeah it does kinda suck since we are powerless in many ways. When i worked back in the day the power came with multiple job offers. As I mentioned before I am in a unique situation and as such my mental ROL will likely be unchanged from my real ROL. I have found my top choice I just thought people would like to know if this makes any difference

BTW BKN you are a huge asset to this forum. Having the chance to anonymously communicate with a PD is great, esp one like you who isnt afraid to state his opinion.

And since you are so active on here you are helping us catch up with Path (see Path's lead is shrinking). EM docs may be cool and relaxed but hey we still want to win dont we?

roja, no offense Residents are also huge benefit I dont want you to get jealous or anything :)
 
EctopicFetus said:
Yeah it does kinda suck since we are powerless in many ways. When i worked back in the day the power came with multiple job offers.

It always kind of amuses me on the other end when the seniors approach their job interviews as if they were trying to get into residency. They are in the drivers seat. When I tell them they should cross out lines in the contract they don't like, they have a look of quiet wonder as they say "Can I do that??"

Of course, I don't tell them that if they are inteviewing for a faculty postion. :D
 
BKN said:
It always kind of amuses me on the other end when the seniors approach their job interviews as if they were trying to get into residency. They are in the drivers seat. When I tell them they should cross out lines in the contract they don't like, they have a look of quiet wonder as they say "Can I do that??"

Of course, I don't tell them that if they are inteviewing for a faculty postion. :D


*rapidly makes mental note in case I apply to TT after fellowship* ;)

EF-

Jealous of BKN? No way. I am a lowly EM3 about to be a small step above as a slightly above lowly resident. :D (and uber excited about it :love: )

I think you will find that your experiences probably aren't that different from many others. Many others of us had other lives prior to going into medicine. Its part of what makes EM so interesting. I worked in Film/TV adn also owned my own business. It definately helps, I think, because in a sense you know better what you like/don't like adn know what you want in life in terms of location and life in general.

I had no seperation in my mental and real ROL.

And I did send thank you notes, because I'm from the south and that's what polite southern women do. But I did not do it with any thought that it would make one iota of a difference. Nor did it give me any sense of control.
 
roja, I agree on the last statement.. Anyways I just meant jealous with my lauding of him and not sending some love your way as well :)
 
deleted secondarily to duplication....
 
AW. well now I feel all loved. ;)

I don't really get jealous (unless somehow manu ginobili was involved in all of this, and well, that's just an entirely different discussion!)
 
Anyone hear from Emory?? Just curious...
 
Hey everyone,

I spoke with one PD who strongly recommended AGAINST taking a second look, stating that he has seen several cases where it worked against the applicant and resulted in them being ranked lower than they would have before the second look. Just something to consider.

I was also wondering if most people are sending thank you's to the people that interviewed them- I met someone recently who stated that he has only sent a few letters out after doing most of his interviews (he thought they were too vague and didn't bother sending them to most people).

Happy end to interviewing for everyone!
 
I have received very few follow ups from programs either, but I don't read into it. Hec, Indy, one of my favorite places on the trail flat out tells you not to worry about hearing from you because you will not! I even sent them a question by email to the PD's and got a reply back from a resident. I think they must have a policy against communicating with applicants after an interview. There is sort of something good and bad about that. Peoria was very nice and sent me an email and card from the PD. So did Scott and White, and it was also very nice and positive (letter). I got an email from Case after sending them a thank you, as well from BKN himself after sending him a thank you email.

I have to admit that I naturally start to push the programs that replied back to the top of my list every time I think about them. People in marketing know this makes a huge difference and I don't find it to be coercion at all. I wish in fact that more programs would truly tell you how they feel about you because for me, if I had 2 programs on equal ground, I would take the one that makes me feel welcomed the most. And that is where I think the "no contact" programs hurt themselves. Lets face it....we all want to feel wanted!

One caveat of the second look is that it gives you an entirely different look at a program where you originally felt you might have wanted to go. Unfortunately, or fortunately as you might say, I was at a 2nd look last week where the program had originally looked incredible. Then I stayed just long enough to see all the "dents", and it turned out these dents were more like condylomatous warts. So after dragging my wife to a far away city, we found out it was not for us. I was honestly very upset by it because now I have had to re-evaluate my entire list. I therefore highly recommend the 2nd look, and I would say you should try and do at least 3 of them. I will say though, in defense of places like Indy who don't communicate after interviews, that it makes sense in this case. I had been wowed by this program and really loved the sales pitch, but I fell victim to the smiles and empty promises that just were far from true. At least with places like Indy, what you see is what you get.

In the end I think the applicant carries the trump card in the match, and most people will end up at one of their top 3. Its really hard trying to find those top 3 though when there are so many good programs and so many others that look good at first glance.
 
Ralph05 said:
Hey everyone,

I spoke with one PD who strongly recommended AGAINST taking a second look, stating that he has seen several cases where it worked against the applicant and resulted in them being ranked lower than they would have before the second look. Just something to consider.

I was also wondering if most people are sending thank you's to the people that interviewed them- I met someone recently who stated that he has only sent a few letters out after doing most of his interviews (he thought they were too vague and didn't bother sending them to most people).

Happy end to interviewing for everyone!

Can you give examples of how a second look may hurt an applicant (besides showing up drunk, etc)?

Regarding thank yous, I send to all as a matter of courtesy. One PD stated that it's fine to send one to the PD as long as you mention each interviewer by name in that one letter/e-mail as well.
 
Koko said:
Can you give examples of how a second look may hurt an applicant (besides showing up drunk, etc)?

Regarding thank yous, I send to all as a matter of courtesy. One PD stated that it's fine to send one to the PD as long as you mention each interviewer by name in that one letter/e-mail as well.
I dunno, I wouldn't believe it. Unless you are an absolute social buffoon, which would have shown up during your interview (most likely... its hard for 6 or so hours to not show some true side of your personality, even if you are hiding it), I don't think a second look would hurt you. I strongly would not believe that rumor.

The second look is for YOU! Honestly, when my res coordinator tells me she has a person giving a second look, I just email the applicant and let htem know the names of the residents who are going to be on at that time, and let it up to them. We don't set up the hidden camera in the bathroom to see if you wash your hands after you pee.

The second look is for the applicant, to let you get a closer idea of what its like to be in the ED, the interactions between the staff and residents, and the residents and nurses. Just to get a "gut feeling" for the place, I guess. I only did a second look at my program (USF), because, well, there were no residents/interns/PROGRAM, when I applied, so I just wanted to get to know my PD and some of the EM attendings and the way the ED worked.

Q
 
I don't know if it's a regional thing or not, since I interviewed only in the Southeast last year, but virtually every program did some form of post-interview contact. Some did the generic form letter, some did the e-mails from residents and faculty, several did phone calls from PD's and assistant PD's. If I remember correctly, it got pretty hot during that last week before lists were finalized.
 
After reading the never ending angst on these forums about this, I'm setting the folowing for my EM program:

1. I will continue to give each applicant my card and e-mail and ask them to e-mail me with any questions, telling them I will answer within a couple of days.
2. I will tell them that we will not send them a courtesy thank you letter, but consider it as given.
3. I will suggest that if they want to tell us that we are their no 1 (or high, whatever) send us an email.
4. Thank you letters from them are strictly optional and the failure to write us 1,3,10 or whatever will not be viewed negatively
 
Oh yes, and second looks are for their benefit. If it will help them with their rank list, we're very glad for them to come. But our official position is that a second look will not affect their ranking.
 
jaeida8 said:
I've gotten....

phone call from a resident at Cook County

personal thank you note from Drexel's PD (I think most everyone received a personal thank you note from them)

email from UT-Houston immediately after my interview (although in the past I've heard that everyone gets almost the same email)

Interesting comment about Drexel...and I thought I was their #1 choice :laugh: . Seriously, though, I'm glad I saw that because I was slowly falling into the trap of ranking my responders higher than the non-responders, with Drexel at the top of the list. I think it's only natural to do so.

Just out of curiosity, was it a handwritten thank-you note from the Drexel PD regarding "how we would love to train you, etc?" Has anybody else received these?
 
TXchick - I got a letter from emory.
 
Well it seems to be true, these last few weeks have produced more contact than I would have predicted from programs. Some have been email, a few have been real mail, and a few have been phone calls. And holy crap, after literally trying for 2 months to get a feel for one of my top programs, and after literally no actual reply from the faculty at all, Indy actually sent out a full page letter that I got yesterday. Talk about unexpected!! It was more like a form letter, but it actually did have my name on it! It was not signed by anyone, but it was signed "IU EM FACULTY". It really took me off guard because of their "no contact" stance. All I can say is that I am EXTREMELY glad to have received it even if it went out to everyone. It was a very nice letter about their new simulation center and it was basically a "don't forget about us" letter. I think it shows their human side finally and I have a feeling it is going to help them to shed the whole "no contact" image they portray. That letter made my day I must admit, even if it was created perhaps by my wife on an ink-jet printer just to get me to shut up about it!! :laugh:
 
Another question along these same lines...I'm on a rotation now and when I got out I had a message from a PD wanting to know how felt about their program, how interviews went, and if I had any questions....and then wanted me to call them back at my earliest convenience.

I sincerely think that this program is top 3 in the country, but I am not going to rank it top 3 due entirely to geography. I just don't see myself living there for the next 3-4 years, even though it seems to be an awesome program (including my attendings/advisors opinions). I'd get sweet training, but would probably be enjoy other cities better.

How does one go about having a conversation w/a PD regarding interviews, rankings etc, without screwing oneself out of the possiblity of matching there? Imagine if for some reason I end up there and the PD remembered our conversation? or even worse get a bad vibe and doesn't rank me?

I'm all about being 100% honest all the time, I just don't want to screw myself. Any ideas that don't include lying?
 
I just mailed out a letter to the PD of my #1, and told him it's my #1. For #2 and #3, I mailed them each a letter stating that I am ranking them very high. No letters for anyone else, not even my dear old mum.
 
I have found that emailing is much more effective in getting a response back. All the letters I sent came back to no avail. One of my top choices did send me a nice letter (via snail mail) (prior to me sending out my thank you). Still waiting to hear from a few of the others on my list.. I feel good about matching in my top 1/2.
 
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