Cornell - I really want to rank you #1 but...

[UT_mikie]

I have searched through all the the NYC threads but I still can't decide.

I am looking at all the Manhattan programs. I liked Cornell the most in terms of fit but a few things bug me and I wonder how important they are once you are out in practice. And if Cornell residents and alums can correct anything that is wrong here I'd appreciate it. I forget who said it, but someone said that MS IV applicants don't have the perspective to know whats important so I'd appreciate any help.

1. No trauma
2. No transplant (except kidney)
3. OB is rumored to be cush and not high acuity.
4. Peds is outsourced. Do you get enough experience?

Particularly not being confident in 3 and 4 scares the s--t out of me.

Being possibly deficient in these four areas bothers me. Does this really matter?

If I'm misguided and got it wrong someone please correct me b/c I want to rank this program number 1 and just need a nudge.

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[Jeff05]

you should be very comfortable with OB.

as far as peds, you will probably be comfy with bread and butter peds, which is all you will have to ever do, unless you practice in the middle of nowhere or you do a peds fellowship.

trauma...i mean if you know how to do a big case like a liver transplant you know how to do trauma. but, they don't do livers. kidney tx is a ca1 level case.

if high volume, high risk OB, peds, transplant, trauma are important to you, there is another program in the area which more than adequately covers all of the above.

 

[guitarguy09]

Is Cornell the program that offers subsidized housing?... because that would be HUGE if you are living in Manhattan.

 

[akpete]

Is Cornell the program that offers subsidized housing?... because that would be HUGE if you are living in Manhattan.

yes, they have buildings right across the street from the hospital. Can't remember the prices exactly, but I think it was around $1500/month on average for a 1br. A few buildings and ranges from studio to 2br, so there's a range in pricing. I saw a 1br in the Helmsley building, and it seemed pretty nice. It would've been nice to see a studio in the less expensive buildings cuz I think that would've been more in my price range.

 

[McSnappy]

yes, they have buildings right across the street from the hospital. Can't remember the prices exactly, but I think it was around $1500/month on average for a 1br. A few buildings and ranges from studio to 2br, so there's a range in pricing. I saw a 1br in the Helmsley building, and it seemed pretty nice. It would've been nice to see a studio in the less expensive buildings cuz I think that would've been more in my price range.

D@mn,

the places I'm looking into are 4-5 bdrm for 1500.00

good luck to you willing/wanting to go to New York for 'adequate' training and pay that for housing.

 

[EternalMD]

Unfortunately NYC rent prices are extremely high. Even though the salaries are in the 50s for most programs, adjusting for living expenses, its definitely not worth it. My friend who goes to school near Lake Eerie supposedly pays about 500-600 for a townhouse to rent. It just depends on what you want from a program and if you're willing to put up with it for the 3-4 years.

 

[akpete]

Cornell salaries from website:

Salary (2008-2009)
PGY-1 $48,752
PGY-2 $51,296
PGY-3 $54,294
PGY-4 $55,969
PGY-5 $58,051

 

[guitarguy09]

On the positive side though, it seems that if you do residency in a specific region it is easier to obtain jobs in that same region/state (due to alumni connection and familiarity of the program). So if people want to end up living in NYC (or the region) then it isn't a bad idea to attend these places for residency. In theory at least...

 

[Jeff05]

multiple NYC programs offer subsidized housing.

 

[ProRealDoc]

I have searched through all the the NYC threads but I still can't decide.

I am looking at all the Manhattan programs. I liked Cornell the most in terms of fit but a few things bug me and I wonder how important they are once you are out in practice. And if Cornell residents and alums can correct anything that is wrong here I'd appreciate it. I forget who said it, but someone said that MS IV applicants don't have the perspective to know whats important so I'd appreciate any help.

1. No trauma
2. No transplant (except kidney)
3. OB is rumored to be cush and not high acuity.
4. Peds is outsourced. Do you get enough experience?

Particularly not being confident in 3 and 4 scares the s--t out of me.

Being possibly deficient in these four areas bothers me. Does this really matter?

If I'm misguided and got it wrong someone please correct me b/c I want to rank this program number 1 and just need a nudge.

Sounds like a weak program. You need better exposure than that. At minimum, you should be able to get decent OB/PEds experience plus good familiarity with livers, AAAs, hearts, etc.

Don't sell yourself short.

 

[maceo]

On the positive side though, it seems that if you do residency in a specific region it is easier to obtain jobs in that same region/state (due to alumni connection and familiarity of the program). So if people want to end up living in NYC (or the region) then it isn't a bad idea to attend these places for residency. In theory at least...

BS. you can get any job anywhere as long as you are qualified.. As for cornell and NYC. You can get as good if not better of an experience at an out of the way program. like MCV, UVA, maryland, IOWA.. just to name a tiny few. Livingin NYC is a ****in hassle. I wouldnt wanna do it. especially during residency.. BUt if you go to cornell you wont be short changed.. some of the big names are from there.. The political bulls h i t there might be too much to handle though

 

[jennyboo]

When I was a medical student, I interviewed there and put it right up at #6 on my rank list. I put it below two other Manhattan programs, one of which had good cases and one of which had a reputation for good working conditions. Cornell had neither as far as I was concerned, so I ranked it low. I did not match there and know nothing more about it. So I'm no expert on the program itself.

If you want to rank this program #1 there's nothing wrong with doing so.
Forget the touchy-feeling "it's a good fit" bull$hit. You're not buying clothes or writing essays for a liberal arts college. Residency is a job and a marathon to finish. Residency doesn't come down to "fit" so much as it comes down to being tolerable or even sometimes likable during the few years you have to do it. The important things are good people, good cases, good location, and acceptable working conditions (define those however you wish). If you think Cornell provides you with your definition of good people, good cases, good location and acceptable working conditions, rank it highly.

Every residency will leave you with some clinical weaknesses and you will make up those deficits on an as-needed basis later on. Medical students go into residency thinking that a training program should prepare you "to handle anything that comes your way." Residents leave knowing that what they've actually gotten is a basic skillset with some strengths and some weaknesses -- hopefully, enough to get by. There's a large learning curve in residency and there is a large learning curve after residency too.

1. No trauma
2. No transplant (except kidney)
3. OB is rumored to be cush and not high acuity.
4. Peds is outsourced. Do you get enough experience?

Trauma - From time to time we do massive resuscitations (for example, transfusing a hundred units of red cells in a couple hours) but even in a place that does have trauma, this doesn't happen very frequently. Your education probably won't suffer from not having done a massive hundred-unit transfusion for major trauma. However, there's a whole variety of other trauma cases of varying degrees of acuity requiring varying degrees of work (pelvic fractures, head and spine injuries, etc) that don't necessarily come rolling into your OR coding from the trauma bay, but do contribute to your education. Don't worry too much about the massive traumas, but do be aware it's good to do some of these smaller but still highly acute "trauma" cases.

Transplant - No big loss. You do not need to learn to run these cases. You'll never do them again after residency unless you choose to be on the "liver transplant team" or the "lung transplant team" at a transplant center (usually involves going into academics). With the exception of kidney transplants which are treated as general surgery cases, residents usually aren't expected to be able to do liver and lung transplants independently upon graduation. It's one of the things you will learn to do as an attending. As a resident, you are only there to "get a taste" of how these cases go, no more.

Remember.... good people, good cases, good location and acceptable working conditions.

 

[Bertelman]

Sounds like a weak program. You need better exposure than that. At minimum, you should be able to get decent OB/PEds experience plus good familiarity with livers, AAAs, hearts, etc.

Don't sell yourself short.

Good familiarity with livers?

Less than half the programs in the country will give you ANY familiarity.

Like Jenny said, unless you want to be on a transplant team, doing livers in residency doesn't pan out.

 

[UT_mikie]

Thanks bertleman and Jennieboo exactly the perspective I needed.

Anyone else out there?

 

[ProRealDoc]

Good familiarity with livers?

Less than half the programs in the country will give you ANY familiarity.

Like Jenny said, unless you want to be on a transplant team, doing livers in residency doesn't pan out.

Too bad there's not more. I think it makes you a better clinician to have exposure to patients with these kinds of pathology.

 

[Bertelman]

Too bad there's not more. I think it makes you a better clinician to have exposure to patients with these kinds of pathology.

I agree. I worked at a place before med school that, at the time, was maybe #3 in liver TX numbers. Like >200 a year. Wasn't even an academic center. Nonetheless, only a small fraction of the anesthesiologists did those cases.

When it came time for my interviews, I think maybe 1/7 provided liver transplants.

 

[mrsaab24]

I'm currently a resident at Cornell, but I would agree with the recent threads pertaining to trauma and liver transplants. We see plenty of 'trauma' patients both at Cornell and MSK, although many are not coming directly from the ER trauma bays. Remember, it doesn't have to be a gunshot or knife wound to require tons of fluids, pressors, etc to keep the patient alive. We do kidney and pancreas transplants here, but for other transplants, you'll get specialty training after residency anyway, so unless you are dying to do liver transplants, you'll be OK. As far as OB is concerned...yes, most of the patients are not high acuity, but we have huge numbers of cases going, and you'd be suprised how many of these 'boring' UES ladies become quite the handful on the floor or in the OR. And we get our fair share of your more typical OB patients, so don't get dismayed. Finally peds, you get a fair exposure of basic cases while here at Cornell, and if you do a month at MSK, which you have the option of doing, then you're doing huge neuroblastoma cases, replacing several blood volumes in a 2yo kid. We also have peds hearts and peds neuro, so you get exposure to those cases as well, on top of the bread and butter cases.

Hope this helps some.

PS, Yes, many of the programs offer 'some' subsidized housing, but from the ones I have seen, I wouldn't want to live there. Cornell offers housing to every resident. Studios run around 1300 at the most, depending on floor and building (Helmsley high floor, most expensive). You'll still have enough leftover to survive on, unless you are buying your Aston Martin during residency and want a nice parking spot in the garage.