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ithd

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Not sure why BU is even a contender against the rest of the schools...
 
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claduva94

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At this point most of those schools haven't released decisions...
 
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sunflower18

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What's the purpose of this poll? I assume you're not making this decision since these schools haven't released decisions this cycle. If this is a hypothetical, why these institutions in particular?
 
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FFH

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You got to love how SDN enlightens my day with amusements.
 
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efle

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Well Ivy doesn't automatically mean >> BU (ahem, Brown and Dartmouth) but yeah what an odd poll
 
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efle

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Yeah, if name brand clothing gives you better odds of getting into a residency for selective specialties maybe. For someone who wants to be a surgeon for example, Columbia College of Surgeons and Surgeons >>> BU
 
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Earl Simmons

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Yeah, if name brand clothing gives you better odds of getting into a residency for selective specialties maybe. For someone who wants to be a surgeon for example, Columbia College of Surgeons and Surgeons >>> BU

Maybe for name brand surgical residencies. UTHSCSA sent 12 into ortho, which is considered the most competitive surgical speciality after plastics, last year. Did they all go to Mayo for ortho? No, but they went into ortho.
 
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efle

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Maybe for name brand surgical residencies. UTHSCSA sent 12 into ortho, which is considered the most competitive surgical speciality after plastics, last year. Did they all go to Mayo for ortho? No, but they went into ortho.
I never said anything about being the only way in, just that your odds are better, especially for top hospitals within a tough surgery. Same as being from HYPSM isn't the only way into med school, but they have way higher success at getting people into med schools, and are over represented at top schools, so for Ugad, Ivy >>> BU as well, but plenty of BU go on to be successful as well
 
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Cyberdyne 101

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I never said anything about being the only way in, just that your odds are better, especially for top hospitals within a tough surgery. Same as being from HYPSM isn't the only way into med school, but they have way higher success at getting people into med schools, and are over represented at top schools, so for Ugad, Ivy >>> BU as well, but plenty of BU go on to be successful as well
I believe more than a few not top 20 med schools have an excellent tradition of matching students into prestigious surgical residencies. Also, some of the best surgical departments are at somewhat "lower ranked" med schools.
 
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darkjedi

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oops realized this is for med school not premed
 
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NickNaylor

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I believe more than a few not top 20 med schools have an excellent tradition of matching students into prestigious surgical residencies. Also, some of the best surgical departments are at somewhat "lower ranked" med schools.

The whole idea that you are destined to do one thing or another strictly based on your medical school is ridiculous. That's not to say that the "brand" of your medical school doesn't matter, but there are so many more important things directly in your control as a medical trainee (academic performance, clinical performance, ability to not be an ass, etc.) that it almost becomes inconsequential. Regardless of one anyone says, you won't be held back or prevented from getting into a certain specialty on the basis of your medical school. Some schools might help you achieve those goals, but none will hurt you.
 
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efle

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I believe more than a few not top 20 med schools have an excellent tradition of matching students into prestigious surgical residencies. Also, some of the best surgical departments are at somewhat "lower ranked" med schools.
I totally agree, some schools have departments which outshine most of the rest of the school. Exact same thing for undergrad, like Wustl or JHop having much better known pre-med/STEM than humanities (though still great).


The whole idea that you are destined to do one thing or another strictly based on your medical school is ridiculous. That's not to say that the "brand" of your medical school doesn't matter, but there are so many more important things directly in your control as a medical trainee (academic performance, clinical performance, ability to not be an ass, etc.) that it almost becomes inconsequential. Regardless of one anyone says, you won't be held back or prevented from getting into a certain specialty on the basis of your medical school. Some schools might help you achieve those goals, but none will hurt you.

By definition, if being at school A helps you, not being at school A and lacking that help is leaving you worse off in the overall competition. I agree that you can excel anywhere, but saying A > B but B not < A makes no sense.
 
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NickNaylor

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By definition, if being at school A helps you, not being at school A and lacking that help is leaving you worse off in the overall competition. I agree that you can excel anywhere, but saying A > B but B not < A makes no sense.

My point is that the difference is so minute and itself dependent on self-motivation and personal factors that it's essentially meaningless.
 

efle

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If that were true, wouldn't the match lists show such? There is simply no comparison between the lists of, say, a Top 5 vs Southern Ill Uni (used because I visited there recently). The difference isn't minute at all if you want the best shot at the ROAD to happiness starting at a top hospital for example.
 

NickNaylor

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If that were true, wouldn't the match lists show such? There is simply no comparison between the lists of, say, a Top 5 vs Southern Ill Uni (used because I visited there recently). The difference isn't minute at all if you want the best shot at the ROAD to happiness starting at a top hospital for example.

Do you think the type of student going to SIU is the same type or quality of student going to Harvard?
 

efle

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I think people expect the answer to your question is no, that the people at Harvard > SIU, which is exactly why going there gives you a big boost in odds for impressing res directors.
 
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NickNaylor

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I think @NickNaylor was referring more to the individual students, not the schools.

Yes, exactly. There's a huge amount of selection bias going on here that people don't appreciate. Your school's brand will help to a very minimal degree. I don't doubt that. But more important is that the kind of student that gets into a place like HMS to begin with is almost certainly more likely to do everything necessary to match into competitive specialties. Generally speaking they are simply more successful academics, and in medical school that's pretty much all that matters. If you get killer boards scores, have excellent research experiences, and get letters from big name folks that strongly endorse your application to a specific field, it doesn't matter if you go to SIU or HMS, you'll more than likely be successful in your pursuits. The "problem" is that all of those things are infinitely more abundant at the latter than the former, and the students at the latter are likely way more motivated to pursue those opportunities than students at the former.
 
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efle

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Isn't one of the major factors in your competitiveness class rank though? Only so many people can be ranked near the top, and so being ranked well at an elite school should give you a boost that wouldn't be equally conveyed by a high rank at a mid or low tier school.
 

Cyberdyne 101

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Isn't one of the major factors in your competitiveness class rank though? Only so many people can be ranked near the top, and so being ranked well at an elite school should give you a boost that wouldn't be equally conveyed by a high rank at a mid or low tier school.
If you browse through "top residency programs" you'll find quite a few residents from lower ranked med schools. I'm pretty sure @darkjedi once noted that some programs are indeed snobbier (ahem Wash U ortho :laugh:), but many others welcome ppl from lower tier schools.
 
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Ace Khalifa

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Isn't one of the major factors in your competitiveness class rank though? Only so many people can be ranked near the top, and so being ranked well at an elite school should give you a boost that wouldn't be equally conveyed by a high rank at a mid or low tier school.
Most "elite" schools have P/F and no internal ranking, so everyone coming from these schools on par with each other. Mid and lower tier schools need a way to rank because they don't have that prestige advantage. Just some observations.
 

efle

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I thought most P/F top tier schools did in fact keep a class rank they refereed to in their Dean letter? And even then the P/F is only for the first couple years, after that there are differences in who makes Honors during clinical years
 

NickNaylor

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I thought most P/F top tier schools did in fact keep a class rank they refereed to in their Dean letter? And even then the P/F is only for the first couple years, after that there are differences in who makes Honors during clinical years

A minority of schools don't rank their students in any way. Many that are P/F rank for the purposes of AOA; some rank and include a rough ranking (e.g., top quintile, second quartile, etc.) as part of the dean's latter. The systems in place vary widely.
 

moop

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I also misread this as for med school, not premed...

Harvard takes the cake if you have all those options. But c'mon let's be real how many people really get those options? lol don't get ahead of yourself OP. Work on that Common App first
 
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efle

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I also misread this as for med school, not premed...

Harvard takes the cake if you have all those options. But c'mon let's be real how many people really get those options? lol don't get ahead of yourself OP. Work on that Common App first

OP said "For those already in any of the above school or anyone with multiple acceptance to either..."

This can't be talking about undergrad, high schoolers don't get acceptances until spring. This must be referring to med schools.
 

moop

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OP said "For those already in any of the above school or anyone with multiple acceptance to either..."

This can't be talking about undergrad, high schoolers don't get acceptances until spring. This must be referring to med schools.
By that logic, this can't be about med schools, either. None of those schools are rolling so none have released any decisions yet

OP is just toying with us but a good troll never leaves a thread and not come back. 2/10
 
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So...this was all a big troll to make fun of BU?

Not making fun of BU just seems that I see BU in a higher light than the rest of SDN!

OP is just toying with us but a good troll never leaves a thread and not come back. 2/10[/QUOTE said:
Not trolling, and I have been reading every post, there is a logic to the madness ! Also when I call for those already in the school i refer to possible M1s lurking in the pre-med section, and multiple acceptance refers to both the scenario that come march this is the case, and also those with acceptance to non rolling schools already !
 

demystifie

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I would say BU, if you can get into the 7 year BS/MD program ... that will save you the headache and stress of applying to med schools later on.
 
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moop

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I would say BU, if you can get into the 7 year BS/MD program ... that will save you the headache and stress of applying to med schools later on.
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. I would say BU only if you don't do the 7-year program.

Good med school, terrible program. Polar opposite of Brown PLME (mediocre med school, great program).

I interviewed and was accepted at SMED back in the day. Reasons why it blows:
  • Compressed 3-year science curriculum that completely defeats the "liberal arts" aspect (they force you to take sh*it like physical chemistry abad quantum mechanics...wtf)
  • Only 3 years of college. Enough said
  • >30 MCAT required. This does not present a problem for the high achievers who are SMED, but still having to study for that sh*it defeats yet another purpose of a BS/MD gig
  • One summer filled with coursework, as if cutting a year out of college didn't suck enough
  • No option to actually complete a full major, only room for a minor b/c of all the sh*it science thrown at you
Quote from my host: "It sucks when you move through college, but you know that's because BU's throwing its hardest at you and everyone looks up to SMEDs."
lol...."it sucks but you get your ego stroked"

Edit: it seems like SMED now offers an 8-year option for those who want it for enough time to get a major done and do more college things. That's good. That's very good.
 

eatkalteenbars

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I would say BU, if you can get into the 7 year BS/MD program ... that will save you the headache and stress of applying to med schools later on.
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. I would say BU only if you don't do the 7-year program.

Good med school, terrible program. Polar opposite of Brown PLME (mediocre med school, great program).

I interviewed and was accepted at SMED back in the day. Reasons why it blows:
  • Compressed 3-year science curriculum that completely defeats the "liberal arts" aspect (they force you to take sh*it like physical chemistry abad quantum mechanics...wtf)
  • Only 3 years of college. Enough said
  • >30 MCAT required. This does not present a problem for the high achievers who are SMED, but still having to study for that sh*it defeats yet another purpose of a BS/MD gig
  • One summer filled with coursework, as if cutting a year out of college didn't suck enough
  • No option to actually complete a full major, only room for a minor b/c of all the sh*it science thrown at you
Quote from my host: "It sucks when you move through college, but you know that's because BU's throwing its hardest at you and everyone looks up to SMEDs."
lol...."it sucks but you get your ego stroked"

Edit: it seems like SMED now offers an 8-year option for those who want it for enough time to get a major done and do more college things. That's good. That's very good.

I'm going to throw in my two cents as someone who was in the SMED program and wound up leaving it...(definitely ID'ing myself here, but I feel a weird need to defend the program.) Not sure when you were accepted to SMED but a lot of the "reasons why it blows" you give are not/are no longer true.

  • The compressed science curriculum is actually only 2 years to finish all prerequisites. Unless you choose to take an (optional, though recommended) medical module course at the med school, you have complete freedom during your junior year. I know SMEDs who spent their entire junior year abroad.
  • Physical chemistry and quantum mechanics are NOT required: the only required courses are the typical premed prerequisites (physics, genchem, orgo, bio), though you have no choice in what level course you take. (e.g.. you take an easier physics course but the hardest general chemistry course offered at BU.)
  • For some people, the accelerated aspect is a major selling point. (One less year of tuition!)
  • The majority of the SMED class has no problem meeting the >30 MCAT requirement. For the few people who do have difficulty, multiple re-takes are permitted.
  • It is possible to complete a full major within the three years of undergrad.

All this being said, the MMEDIC program may be a better route if you want the guarantee of med school admission while still getting the full four-year college experience.
 
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moop

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I'm going to throw in my two cents as someone who was in the SMED program and wound up leaving it...(definitely ID'ing myself here, but I feel a weird need to defend the program.) Not sure when you were accepted to SMED but a lot of the "reasons why it blows" you give are not/are no longer true.
  • The compressed science curriculum is actually only 2 years to finish all prerequisites. Unless you choose to take an (optional, though recommended) medical module course at the med school, you have complete freedom during your junior year. I know SMEDs who spent their entire junior year abroad.
  • Physical chemistry and quantum mechanics are NOT required: the only required courses are the typical premed prerequisites (physics, genchem, orgo, bio), though you have no choice in what level course you take. (e.g.. you take an easier physics course but the hardest general chemistry course offered at BU.)
  • For some people, the accelerated aspect is a major selling point. (One less year of tuition!)
  • The majority of the SMED class has no problem meeting the >30 MCAT requirement. For the few people who do have difficulty, multiple re-takes are permitted.
  • It is possible to complete a full major within the three years of undergrad.

All this being said, the MMEDIC program may be a better route if you want the guarantee of med school admission while still getting the full four-year college experience.
Wow, that sounds much, much better than what I was offered in April 2010 (interviewed in Jan). I don't think quant mech was directly required, but it was all rolled up into an intensive physics class. P-chem was rolled up into gen chem, which I assume is still the case as you describe it as the toughest chem class out there.

Still, having to take the MCAT is pretty stupid. GPA requirement and prescribed premed core (where you don't even get to choose course levels) isn't enough? C'mon.

Tuition isn't a good enough reason to systematically encourage young minds to eschew an extra year of intellectual exploration. An opt-in system of getting a 4th year still encourages people to do 3 years of college, which is pretty detrimental. Medicine is in desperate need of more intellectual diversity.
 
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